Who ever gets voted in needs to build more council housing - HotUKDeals
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Who ever gets voted in needs to build more council housing

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I'm ready for the predictable onslaught of comments about scroungers etc but, I visited my family in their new council home yesterday and was informed my father pays £600 a month for it (from his civi… Read More
Error440 Avatar
3w, 1d agoPosted 3 weeks, 1 day ago
I'm ready for the predictable onslaught of comments about scroungers etc but, I visited my family in their new council home yesterday and was informed my father pays £600 a month for it (from his civil service pension i might add) its a house, on street parking, front and back garden, 3 bedroom.

If it was private landlord according to the internet the rent would be over 2k a month.

Given how many people need housing benefit and top ups, isn't it time we had a government that tried to save money instead of giving increasing amounts of money into private hands, with such a massive discrepancy which I'm sure would be reflected up and down the country when comparing council and private rents, its a no brainer we need more council housing, makes sense.

Why aren't more people calling for it?
Error440 Avatar
3w, 1d agoPosted 3 weeks, 1 day ago
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(5)
16 Likes
notahappybunny15
You're right, since Thatcher introduced right to buy no government has built anywhere near enough social housing. Labour included


Right to buy was a stupid idea no one should ever be able to take public housing out of the system
12 Likes
How about they work and buy a house like every body else I the world.
12 Likes
mrfleming. Every area needs workers that aren't all in high paid jobs. Unfortunately for a lot of people, they would never earn enough to get a mortgage in the area they are living and working. Your comment is very judgmental.

Edited By: afternoondelight on Jun 02, 2017 11:37: .
11 Likes
mrfleming344
How about they work and buy a house like every body else I the world.


Oh lord...
7 Likes
it does not help matters when hundreds of thousands of migrants pour into the country every year which obviously puts huge strain on housing stock.last year the ons says 311.000 migrated here while at the same time there were 629.000 national insurance registrations by eu citizens.

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12 Likes #1
How about they work and buy a house like every body else I the world.
3 Likes #2
I agree but we also need the rental market to be regulated. There needs to be a cap on rents. Also, house prices need to fall. It's a relative.
#3
You're right, since Thatcher introduced right to buy no government has built anywhere near enough social housing. Labour included
11 Likes #4
mrfleming344
How about they work and buy a house like every body else I the world.


Oh lord...
7 Likes #5
it does not help matters when hundreds of thousands of migrants pour into the country every year which obviously puts huge strain on housing stock.last year the ons says 311.000 migrated here while at the same time there were 629.000 national insurance registrations by eu citizens.
12 Likes #6
mrfleming. Every area needs workers that aren't all in high paid jobs. Unfortunately for a lot of people, they would never earn enough to get a mortgage in the area they are living and working. Your comment is very judgmental.

Edited By: afternoondelight on Jun 02, 2017 11:37: .
4 Likes #7
Probably going to get a split between homeowners and the rest on this.


afternoondelight
Also, house prices need to fall. It's a relative.

If I was struggling to buy then yes I'd want this. As a homeowner, I don't.
#8
mrfleming344
How about they work and buy a house like every body else I the world.
I agree with you but at the end of the day there are people in circumstances that require "help", but there is the other side of the argument which points to people taking advantage of such a system. I for one cant afford a house in the current climate, and probably never will, but house rent prices are ridiculous and need to be looked at. Where we live because its a sort after area we pay premium, for a mediocre 2 bed semi, where across in another town (6miles away ) for the same price you get a decent 3 bed! Something needs to change.
2 Likes #9
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Probably going to get a split between homeowners and the rest on this.


afternoondelight
Also, house prices need to fall. It's a relative.

If I was struggling to buy then yes I'd want this. As a homeowner, I don't.


Understandable, but for people starting out now it's getting to be unattainable to own a property.
5 Likes #10
mrfleming344
How about they work and buy a house like every body else I the world.


But everybody else in the world doesn't, if you look at the statistics we are one of he largest homeowning nations in the world, the majority of the rest of the EU are renters.

Not everyone can buy a house and the numbers of those buying is dropping and the age at which they buy is rising.

There will always be renters why not have the money go to the council's instead or for it at least to save them money, housing benefit is paid by councils why not increase the amount of that which is paid to themselves, although i already said in another thead that i think its a dumb system to actually pay themselves and they should just not charge those who would get housing benefit, save themselves the admin costs of paying out and back into themselves.

Besides after working for his father when he was ten, working as RAF ground crew, working in Whitehall for over 30 years and then a couple more years after retirement as a office cleaner i think at 83 and with cancer again for the third time he's rather unlikely to be given a mortgage.
16 Likes #11
notahappybunny15
You're right, since Thatcher introduced right to buy no government has built anywhere near enough social housing. Labour included


Right to buy was a stupid idea no one should ever be able to take public housing out of the system
3 Likes #12
dunny06
it does not help matters when hundreds of thousands of migrants pour into the country every year which obviously puts huge strain on housing stock.last year the ons says 311.000 migrated here while at the same time there were 629.000 national insurance registrations by eu citizens.

True but they are also used as an excuse for the loss of council housing and the stories that our council housing is getting swallowed up by immigrants shouldn't be used as it often is to deflect from the fact we've lost a third of them to the private sector and demolition in the last 40 years.
#13
afternoondelight
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Probably going to get a split between homeowners and the rest on this.
afternoondelight
Also, house prices need to fall. It's a relative.
If I was struggling to buy then yes I'd want this. As a homeowner, I don't.
Understandable, but for people starting out now it's getting to be unattainable to own a property.

I think we'll see a greater cultural shift towards people living at home and then renting.

Whether the landlords should be the council or private investors will split people. We also have a skills shortage in construction so any new plans would require immigration.
#14
Error440
Right to buy was a stupid idea no one should ever be able to take public housing out of the system

It won Thatcher a couple of elections. Along with going to war with Argentina...
1 Like #15
RonChew
Error440
Right to buy was a stupid idea no one should ever be able to take public housing out of the system
It won Thatcher a couple of elections. Along with going to war with Argentina...

Greed appeals to a lot it seems, she promoted it (greed that is) but ultimately greed is always the downfall of society.

Lets not forget all the people who got shafted by companies offering to buy your council house, let you stay in it paying the same rent but give you a few grand in a cash sum for handing over the deeds.
3 Likes #16
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
I think we'll see a greater cultural shift towards people living at home and then renting.
Whether the landlords should be the council or private investors will split people. We also have a skills shortage in construction so any new plans would require immigration.

Currently the government pays Millions of £ per year in housing benefit to private landlords. Why not put this money into social housing and free up that capital for other things? In the short term it might work out more expensive, but over a longer term, less money stuck in housing assets and being utilised throughout the economy will stimulate economic growth.
2 Likes #17
mrfleming344
How about they work and buy a house like every body else I the world.
Where can you buy a house that is 3X multiples of living wage or zero hour contract, for example?
1 Like #18
mrfleming344
How about they work and buy a house like every body else I the world.

Why not pull themselves up by their bootstraps while they are at it? Have you not seen the figures recently? People bought houses for £3000 on a £1000 p/a salary in the 60's. Now that house is worth 600K... an equivalent salary would need to be 200K (not taking into account interest rates of course, but still, the difference is stark).
#19
Nalwoir
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
I think we'll see a greater cultural shift towards people living at home and then renting.
Whether the landlords should be the council or private investors will split people. We also have a skills shortage in construction so any new plans would require immigration.
Currently the government pays Millions of £ per year in housing benefit to private landlords. Why not put this money into social housing and free up that capital for other things? In the short term it might work out more expensive, but over a longer term, less money stuck in housing assets and being utilised throughout the economy will stimulate economic growth.

There's an argument for that.
1 Like #20
Error440
RonChew
Error440
Right to buy was a stupid idea no one should ever be able to take public housing out of the system
It won Thatcher a couple of elections. Along with going to war with Argentina...
Greed appeals to a lot it seems, she promoted it (greed that is) but ultimately greed is always the downfall of society.
Lets not forget all the people who got shafted by companies offering to buy your council house, let you stay in it paying the same rent but give you a few grand in a cash sum for handing over the deeds.

how is it greedy wanting to own your own home, if you can buy it cheap and want to live in it for years possibly paying less in interest than in a mortgage all a while the council not having to pay for the upkeep of your home, allowing you to extend do work on it.

People weren't "shafted" if they read what they were doing they could have seen the details, or at least their solicitor should have. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.

Yes we need affordable social housing, there is no argument about that but as I mentioned the other day its sad that some people seem to take real enjoyment about people bettering themselves, daring to mention handouts, moaning about how bad their lot is and blaming greed on the way the world is. :(
1 Like #21
Error440
notahappybunny15
You're right, since Thatcher introduced right to buy no government has built anywhere near enough social housing. Labour included
Right to buy was a stupid idea no one should ever be able to take public housing out of the system
Right-to-buy is a controversy but if I were to make an assumption that it was right to do. Then the consensus view was that the bought ones were not replaced with a new one, and few new ones built as population grew in specific regions. Then the inevitable in economics and finance took their place in money flow.
How can a bloke living in a £500,000 compete with another making widgets to sell in the international market living in £100,000 house, or how can a bloke living in £1500 rent a month compete with another paying €600 /month?
1 Like #22
eslick
its sad that some people seem to take real enjoyment about people bettering themselves, daring to mention handouts, moaning about how bad their lot is and blaming greed on the way the world is. :(

It's jealousy, pure and simple.
#23
Nalwoir
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
I think we'll see a greater cultural shift towards people living at home and then renting.
Whether the landlords should be the council or private investors will split people. We also have a skills shortage in construction so any new plans would require immigration.
Currently the government pays Millions of £ per year in housing benefit to private landlords. Why not put this money into social housing and free up that capital for other things? In the short term it might work out more expensive, but over a longer term, less money stuck in housing assets and being utilised throughout the economy will stimulate economic growth.

At the very least it will save councils money meaning they can invest in more street cleaners or just putting up more flowerbeds to improve the image of areas which would have a good affect on the peoples mental well-being
#24
eslick
Error440
RonChew
Error440
Right to buy was a stupid idea no one should ever be able to take public housing out of the system
It won Thatcher a couple of elections. Along with going to war with Argentina...
Greed appeals to a lot it seems, she promoted it (greed that is) but ultimately greed is always the downfall of society.
Lets not forget all the people who got shafted by companies offering to buy your council house, let you stay in it paying the same rent but give you a few grand in a cash sum for handing over the deeds.
how is it greedy wanting to own your own home, if you can buy it cheap and want to live in it for years possibly paying less in interest than in a mortgage all a while the council not having to pay for the upkeep of your home, allowing you to extend do work on it.

People weren't "shafted" if they read what they were doing they could have seen the details, or at least their solicitor should have. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.

Yes we need affordable social housing, there is no argument about that but as I mentioned the other day its sad that some people seem to take real enjoyment about people bettering themselves, daring to mention handouts, moaning about how bad their lot is and blaming greed on the way the world is. :(

So you get a house for 80k instead of 400k, you sell it for 400k and walk off leaving the council out of pocket on the value of the home they built and -1 of the housing stock meaning they need to pay more housing benefit out to private landlord to fill that gap, council tax rises for all as a result.

So you've taken the good spirits of the country to profit yourself at the expense of the country, its no different to dipping your hand in the charity bucket if you ask me.
1 Like #25
The defining mis-management by leaders over the decades in law of housing demand and supply is a cap had to be put in for housing benefit https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit
.
Market fundamentals means you urgently need to increase supply so as to reduce your liability in payouts to subsidised housing.
1 Like #26
All you need to do is have 18 kids and you will go straight to the top of the housing list, simples oO
#27
splender
The defining mis-management by leaders over the decades in law of housing demand and supply is a cap had to be put in for housing benefit https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit
.
Market fundamentals means you urgently need to increase supply so as to reduce your liability in payouts to subsidised housing.

The housing benefit cap is rubbish, private rents actually increased to match the cap, no surprise when many in the government are landlords its just more dipping their hands in the pot.

Edited By: Error440 on Jun 02, 2017 12:16
#28
I personally can't see a way out of it anymore. We will never build enough houses to keep up with the demand and back log.

The only option I see is to be brutal and move people out and revamp estates and areas. There are so many estates that have an abundance of space. Would be better off knocking the estates down and rebuilding with properly thought out plans. As an example a plot of land with 50 houses could be rebuilt with 500 dwellings. If you replace with flas and remove large green space as an example.
#29
Mikey91
mrfleming344
How about they work and buy a house like every body else I the world.
Oh lord...
More like "Oh landlord" ;)
4 Likes #30
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
afternoondelight
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Probably going to get a split between homeowners and the rest on this.
afternoondelight
Also, house prices need to fall. It's a relative.
If I was struggling to buy then yes I'd want this. As a homeowner, I don't.
Understandable, but for people starting out now it's getting to be unattainable to own a property.

I think we'll see a greater cultural shift towards people living at home and then renting.

Whether the landlords should be the council or private investors will split people. We also have a skills shortage in construction so any new plans would require immigration.



immigrants to build houses defeats the object, why not train school leavers (who aren't academically gifted or have no interest in uni) and the unemployed who want a career.
make it more attractive for employees to train them than ship pre trained foreigners in.
#31
Error440
splender
The defining mis-management by leaders over the decades in law of housing demand and supply is a cap had to be put in for housing benefit https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit
.
Market fundamentals means you urgently need to increase supply so as to reduce your liability in payouts to subsidised housing.
The housing benefit cap is rubbish, private rents actually increased to match the cap, no surprise when many in the government are landlords its just more dipping their hands in the pot.
I travel around a bit in Europe. The lack of council housing causes a growing business, you guessed it, landlords who buy up properties with specific purpose to rent out to people on housing benefits. Namely it is "privatisation" of housing making an economy more susceptible to boom and bust cycles as a byproduct of solving a demand and supply problem.
It is a financial instrument that is an intermediate version sub-prime mortgage between sub-prime and state provision (which is much more stable). In sub-prime, assets were sold to those who couldn't afford, in buy-to-let to house benefit people, many landlords bought needing mortgage renting out to the very same people who couldn't afford. In contrast to a state provision of council housing which has no market cash worth if it could not be sold.
In Brexit, if 250,000 people leave from London back to Europe, you could see an over-supply of rental properties...just an observation. I know for a fact that some I know are thinking of leaving, especially those in need of some welfare benefits to subsidise their low wages, as well as pension provision, in EU they still get benefits but benefits may cease for them here. For example, if EU countries impose a new law to cease pension payments to returning elderly because they have not been contributing to home countries then many more may leave. In UK, the state pension entitlement requires a minimum of 10 years, things may change here in UK and in Europe. There is a huge question of "you get what you paid into". They ain't paying into coffers of their home countries if they are working here in the UK.


Edited By: splender on Jun 02, 2017 12:38
#32
2015
I personally can't see a way out of it anymore. We will never build enough houses to keep up with the demand and back log.
The only option I see is to be brutal and move people out and revamp estates and areas. There are so many estates that have an abundance of space. Would be better off knocking the estates down and rebuilding with properly thought out plans. As an example a plot of land with 50 houses could be rebuilt with 500 dwellings. If you replace with flas and remove large green space as an example.

The estate my family lived on for 36 years i think it was, originally was regeneration of slum housing, everyone there was rehoused in the new estate which was a mix of high rise, masonettes and bungalows for the disabled interspersed with car parking areas, green spaces with playgrounds etc in them and a few spaces for small local shops to try and create a community feel.

It housed less people then the slum housing with the communal outhouses it replaced but obviously the living spaces were bigger then the slum homes which were deemed a health hazard with those in them expected to be adversely affected and thus use the NHS more, plus it got bombed of course being near train tracks so was deemed a blight.

In the 90s there was a plan to knock it all down and rebuild along the original blueprints for the area because the slums had housed more people, it was shelved due to an argument with the highways commission whom own part of the land and didn't agree with the plan.

The estate is now being knocked down and replaced by right to buy and luxury apartments with a small amount of "council" properties being managed by a HA, the disabled were all moved out of London and although 80% of the original estate had been lost to right to buy\private landlords (most of them had been sold several times over and there was several landlords owning multiple properties on the estate they filled with bunkbeds and rented out on short lets to EU builders) the new development still only provides 20% of the lower rent properties that the estate had at the time the demolition plans were drawn up.

Its a terrible situation thats being done in many areas and again this new development overall contains less homes then the estate did when it was built which itself was less then the coal miners terrence's type housing the estate replaced in the first place.

Edited By: Error440 on Jun 02, 2017 12:58
#33
shadey12
immigrants to build houses defeats the object, why not train school leavers (who aren't academically gifted or have no interest in uni) and the unemployed who want a career.make it more attractive for employees to train them than ship pre trained foreigners in.

Training costs money. The Tories and the businesses that support them prefer zero cost options so they'll just import more foreign labour. But the Tories are the only party that will give us hard Brexit... excited
1 Like #34
Error440
eslick
Error440
RonChew
Error440
Right to buy was a stupid idea no one should ever be able to take public housing out of the system
It won Thatcher a couple of elections. Along with going to war with Argentina...
Greed appeals to a lot it seems, she promoted it (greed that is) but ultimately greed is always the downfall of society.
Lets not forget all the people who got shafted by companies offering to buy your council house, let you stay in it paying the same rent but give you a few grand in a cash sum for handing over the deeds.
how is it greedy wanting to own your own home, if you can buy it cheap and want to live in it for years possibly paying less in interest than in a mortgage all a while the council not having to pay for the upkeep of your home, allowing you to extend do work on it.
People weren't "shafted" if they read what they were doing they could have seen the details, or at least their solicitor should have. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.
Yes we need affordable social housing, there is no argument about that but as I mentioned the other day its sad that some people seem to take real enjoyment about people bettering themselves, daring to mention handouts, moaning about how bad their lot is and blaming greed on the way the world is. :(
So you get a house for 80k instead of 400k, you sell it for 400k and walk off leaving the council out of pocket on the value of the home they built and -1 of the housing stock meaning they need to pay more housing benefit out to private landlord to fill that gap, council tax rises for all as a result.
So you've taken the good spirits of the country to profit yourself at the expense of the country, its no different to dipping your hand in the charity bucket if you ask me.

the vast majority of council houses sold were never £400K, yes there are some lucky areas but in the early 80s most would have been no more than £20 to £40K if that average house price in 1986 was £37K. Reality is to the council the actual value of the homes was much less than that, they may have been able to sell the land itself but who would buy a whole council estate.

What you saw is that estates where people didn't want to live, those that had lived their for years bought their homes, did them up and as new tenants moved in they too bough their homes and you ended up with people actually wanting to live on these estates. Yes house prices went up but they did every where, but many of the homes were still lived in by the same people who had bought them originally.

Sad you think that people who have lived in council houses for years, get a bit of discount and have to live in the house for a few more years before being allowed to sell is like taking out of a charity box. You really don't like the thought of anyone bettering themselves or having more than they started and that's a real shame.

Edited By: eslick on Jun 02, 2017 20:57: z
#35
RonChew
shadey12
immigrants to build houses defeats the object, why not train school leavers (who aren't academically gifted or have no interest in uni) and the unemployed who want a career.make it more attractive for employees to train them than ship pre trained foreigners in.
Training costs money. The Tories and the businesses that support them prefer zero cost options so they'll just import more foreign labour. But the Tories are the only party that will give us hard Brexit... excited

Also they pay them less, they employ two brickies on minimum wage or below as the building trade is one of the few cash in hand industries left and sack the one British one they had on £9+ an hour.

Result, immigrants getting benefits ontop of cash in hand working, British bricky on the dole or defaulting on mortgage due to have to compete in a unsustainable economy, more benefits getting paid out and the only people who do well out of it are the building firms who certainly won't reflect the cost of labour in the selling price of the finished properties.

Edited By: Error440 on Jun 02, 2017 13:11
1 Like #36
eslick
Error440
eslick
Error440
RonChew
Error440
Right to buy was a stupid idea no one should ever be able to take public housing out of the system
It won Thatcher a couple of elections. Along with going to war with Argentina...
Greed appeals to a lot it seems, she promoted it (greed that is) but ultimately greed is always the downfall of society.
Lets not forget all the people who got shafted by companies offering to buy your council house, let you stay in it paying the same rent but give you a few grand in a cash sum for handing over the deeds.
how is it greedy wanting to own your own home, if you can buy it cheap and want to live in it for years possibly paying less in interest than in a mortgage all a while the council not having to pay for the upkeep of your home, allowing you to extend do work on it.
People weren't "shafted" if they read what they were doing they could have seen the details, or at least their solicitor should have. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.
Yes we need affordable social housing, there is no argument about that but as I mentioned the other day its sad that some people seem to take real enjoyment about people bettering themselves, daring to mention handouts, moaning about how bad their lot is and blaming greed on the way the world is. :(
So you get a house for 80k instead of 400k, you sell it for 400k and walk off leaving the council out of pocket on the value of the home they built and -1 of the housing stock meaning they need to pay more housing benefit out to private landlord to fill that gap, council tax rises for all as a result.
So you've taken the good spirits of the country to profit yourself at the expense of the country, its no different to dipping your hand in the charity bucket if you ask me.
the vast majority of council houses sold were never £400K, yes there are some lucky areas but in the early 80s most would have been no more than £20 to £40K if that average house price in 1886 was £37K. Reality is to the council the actual value of the homes was much less than that, they may have been able to sell the land itself but who would buy a whole council estate.

What you saw is that estates where people didn't want to live, those that had lived their for years bought their homes, did them up and as new tenants moved in they too bough their homes and you ended up with people actually wanting to live on these estates. Yes house prices went up but they did every where, but many of the homes were still lived in by the same people who had bought them originally.

Sad you think that people who have lived in council houses for years, get a bit of discount and have to live in the house for a few more years before being allowed to sell is like taking out of a charity box. You really don't like the thought of anyone bettering themselves or having more than they started and that's a real shame.

I'm talking my estate with that one, the lady upstairs form ours bought hers for 80 and sold it for 400, obviously its going to very across the country but they were all sold for below market avarage that was the point, so someone else profited at the expense of the council and thus at the expense of the populus, the needs of the many given over to the wants of the few.
1 Like #37
RonChew
shadey12
immigrants to build houses defeats the object, why not train school leavers (who aren't academically gifted or have no interest in uni) and the unemployed who want a career.make it more attractive for employees to train them than ship pre trained foreigners in.

Training costs money. The Tories and the businesses that support them prefer zero cost options so they'll just import more foreign labour. But the Tories are the only party that will give us hard Brexit... excited


and corbyns plans to stop unscrupulous employers importing a trained operative or training someone are?
#38
shadey12
RonChew
shadey12
immigrants to build houses defeats the object, why not train school leavers (who aren't academically gifted or have no interest in uni) and the unemployed who want a career.make it more attractive for employees to train them than ship pre trained foreigners in.
Training costs money. The Tories and the businesses that support them prefer zero cost options so they'll just import more foreign labour. But the Tories are the only party that will give us hard Brexit... excited
and corbyns plans to stop unscrupulous employers importing a trained operative or training someone are?
Government To Train Plumbers For Global Market: Rajiv Pratap Rudy ; Speaking on preparing plumbers for the global market, Mr Rudy said: "We want to create best quality plumbing professionals who can work not only in India but also in other parts of the world."
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/government-to-train-plumbers-for-global-market-rajiv-pratap-rudy-1477756
3 Likes #39
This is called "the invisible election".......Labour party activists starting anti Tory threads.
They know the average member of this site is likely to be working class,possibly low waged and so more likely to be a Labour voter. The perfect platform for anti Tory rhetoric......
Don't believe me? Check out all the OP's previous threads.......bit of a pattern there....
4 Likes #40
toiletseatlicker
This is called "the invisible election".......Labour party activists starting anti Tory threads.They know the average member of this site is likely to be working class,possibly low waged and so more likely to be a Labour voter. The perfect platform for anti Tory rhetoric......Don't believe me? Check out all the OP's previous threads.......bit of a pattern there....


oO me thinks you need to lay off the rim blocks.

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