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Fine Cell work

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The hanging thread got hung so what do you think about prison inmates doing paid work to help rehabilitate them? I must admit I agree with colorado about hard labour for those that cannot or will n… Read More
Mark2111 Avatar
2y, 7m agoPosted 2 years, 7 months ago
The hanging thread got hung so what do you think about prison inmates doing paid work to help rehabilitate them?

I must admit I agree with colorado about hard labour for those that cannot or will not be rehabilitated. However fine cell work offer paid work to engage inmates in producling items to be sold. Duchess of Cornwall is a customer!

How do you feel about inmates earning money?
Would you buy something an inmate has made?
Do you think these scheme's help rehabilitate offenders?

Your views on fine cell work as a social debate rather than bringing in religion and politics, please.
Mark2111 Avatar
2y, 7m agoPosted 2 years, 7 months ago
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#1
Can't do links on phone so please google

Fine cell work to see their website.
1 Like #2
Mark2111
Can't do links on phone so please google

Fine cell work to see their website.

fine cell work
#3
Prison is broken, getting people to turn their lives to focus on something productive definitely works

Clink Prisoner restaurant

The sole aim of The Clink Charity is to reduce reoffending rates of ex-offenders by training and placing graduates into employment upon their release, with the support of Her Majesty’s Prison Service.

We offer a genuine opportunity for prisoners to change their lives, giving them true-to-life work experience and nationally recognised NVQ City & Guilds food preparation, food service and cleaning qualifications.

Restaurants at HMP High Down, HMP Cardiff and HMP Brixton are open for bookings and a fourth is due to open at HMP Styal in spring 2015.
1 Like #4
I don't think they should earn money. They are supposed to be their as a punishment, and I think that they should do labour that is beneficial to society, such as litter picking, replacing street lights, rural hedge / bank cutting, or painting kerbs (or whatever) in public areas for safety.
#5
Many items are already prduced/assembled/finished/packaged in prisons - often big rand names too, to name a few yale padlocks and mothercare baby bootees have been packaged in HMP Leicester, Rover rear view mirror brackets, B&Q bulkhead lights, BHS shot glass sets and christmas wrapping setsassembled, finished or packaged in HMP Ranby, I think HMP Lincoln was assembling ELC sand art sets to name just a few.
#6
Quietus
I don't think they should earn money. They are supposed to be their as a punishment, and I think that they should do labour that is beneficial to society, such as litter picking, replacing street lights, rural hedge / bank cutting, or painting kerbs (or whatever) in public areas for safety.

What about those that might still be a danger or aren't ready to be out in public yet?
1 Like #7
Quietus
I don't think they should earn money. They are supposed to be their as a punishment, and I think that they should do labour that is beneficial to society, such as litter picking, replacing street lights, rural hedge / bank cutting, or painting kerbs (or whatever) in public areas for safety.
Prisoners wages are low anyway, certainly they arent going to be able to buy much, smokers are lucky if they can stretch to 2oz of backy in their wages, pot noodles, biscuits and mars barsare considered luxury.

Can you imagine the expense of having adequate supervision on inmates doing work in public, soungs great in theory but its never going to work. Category D prisoners do do some community work, often in charity shops. HMP Stafford has (or at least did have) a cat d section where inmates did gardening and community projects, ie building a paved track at a local nursery for scooters and go-carts, tidying up local areas and helping the old guys on the local allotments maintain their patch.

Edited By: harlzter on Dec 15, 2014 11:30
3 Likes #8
I work for a private company which teaches subjects at NVQ level 2 and 3 as well as running private courses. We have recently won a contract to teach a certain profession to the inmates of an open prison. They get paid £10 per week to attend the course which will run for six months and I have no problems with that at all. After they have finished the course they will be competent enough to gain employment and earn money themselves without having to resort to breaking the law. We should be encouraging offenders to to exit the prison system and become positive members of society. If that means giving them the tools to do so then I am all for it.




Edited By: RossD89 on Dec 15, 2014 11:40: .
#9
Quietus
I don't think they should earn money. They are supposed to be their as a punishment, and I think that they should do labour that is beneficial to society, such as litter picking, replacing street lights, rural hedge / bank cutting, or painting kerbs (or whatever) in public areas for safety.
Think about what you're saying, Quietus.
It already costs us a fortune to guard prisoners in jail; it's going to cost even more to guard prisoners outside.
Also, if that work needs done, councils might ponder the idea of employing local jobless people.

Most of the schemes you talk about are being backed by certain groups involved in moves to privatise prisons.
There are fortunes to be made from investing in prisons - far far more than any hotelier groups could ever hope to make, and getting occupants to work will only increase those fortunes - all of which will be made on the back of the public, aka you and me.
If you're happy to give ever-increasing amounts of money out of your pocket to make rich people even richer - under the lie that you're going to live in a better society - then either you're incredibly dim or you're a private investor with a view to investing in prisons.

Re; points made by Harlzter and RossD89.
I am aware there's a massive difference between organisations involved in projects that benefits both prisoners and society in general, and other organisations that exist solely to make money for private investors.


Edited By: tryn2help on Dec 15, 2014 12:11: i
#10
teh arn
What about those that might still be a danger or aren't ready to be out in public yet?
There are always going to be exceptions, and obviously the most dangerous would never be able to be involved. Or maybe those collars from Battle Royale 2.:D

harlzter
Can you imagine the expense of having adequate supervision on inmates doing work in public, soungs great in theory but its never going to work.
There's never going to be an ideal solution, but I suspect they could always balance it with some of the money that the councils are currently contracting out to various companies?

tryn2help
Think about what you're saying, Quietus.
It already costs us a fortune to guard prisoners in jail; it's going to cost even more to guard prisoners outside.
Same reply as above, really.


tryn2help
Most of the schemes you talk about are being backed by certain groups involved in moves to privatise prisons.
There are fortunes to be made from investing in prisons - far far more than any hotelier groups could ever hope to make, and getting occupants to work will only increase those fortunes - all of which will be made on the back of the public, aka you and me.
If you're happy to give ever-increasing amounts of money out of your pocket to make rich people even richer - under the lie that you're going to live in a better society - then either you're incredibly dim or you're a private investor with a view to investing in prisons.
I'm not sure who this is aimed at. Hopefully not me.:|
1 Like #11
Quietus
I don't think they should earn money. They are supposed to be their as a punishment, and I think that they should do labour that is beneficial to society, such as litter picking, replacing street lights, rural hedge / bank cutting, or painting kerbs (or whatever) in public areas for safety.

I worked as a prison officer and it was hard enough to get some to work when it was paid, it just wouldn't work if work was unpaid.

There's many different risk factors to take into consideration when granting release on temporary licence, you can't just let anyone out as most would abscond!
#12
Quietus
I don't think they should earn money. They are supposed to be their as a punishment, and I think that they should do labour that is beneficial to society, such as litter picking, replacing street lights, rural hedge / bank cutting, or painting kerbs (or whatever) in public areas for safety.

Just what we need, prisoners out in public with power tools. oO..........;)
#13
Rhianne
I worked as a prison officer and it was hard enough to get some to work when it was paid, it just wouldn't work if work was unpaid.
This sounds like a result of the prison system becoming as lenient as it has been. They should be forced to work - they are being punished after all:|

Rhianne
There's many different risk factors to take into consideration when granting release on temporary licence, you can't just let anyone out as most would abscond!
Of course, and there would have to be provisions in place to stop it happening. The problem is leniency all the time. Having all inmates aware that if anybody runs, they get tased, and has their sentence extended would be a deterrent. Or, again, those collars from Battle Royale 2.X)

There's no real solution to it. I'm not suggesting it's practical with the way things are currently operating - it's just a theoretical 'ideal world' solution, and it's never likely to happen.
1 Like #14
OldEnglish
Just what we need, prisoners out in public with power tools. oO..........;)
Hehe, they'll have to make the monitoring anklets out of adamantium.:D
#15
Quietus

tryn2help
Most of the schemes you talk about are being backed by certain groups involved in moves to privatise prisons.
I'm not sure who this is aimed at. Hopefully not me.:|
How can it be personal if I don't know you?
Lots of us sit in our chairs not knowing all the facts, but nevertheless offering ideas, and most of our poorly informed ideas are shared by others - and that's the context we post in - certainly not personal.
banned#16
I think we should give all prisoners a nice 20k job, perhaps upgrade their living accommodation to have better tv sets. Also give them a much better menu to choose from and good exercise facilities.

Perhaps if we showed a bit more love to these poor unfortunate souls who have got into this situation then they may stop hurting others and robbing people blind and become good kind worthy citizens.

Maybe they just need a hug.
#17
tryn2help
How can it be personal if I don't know you?
Lots of us sit in our chairs not knowing all the facts, but nevertheless offering ideas, and most of our poorly informed ideas are shared by others - and that's the context we post in - certainly not personal.
I didn't say it was personal. I was just asking if it was aimed at me because it was typed in reply to my message. It's logical for me to think that it may have been aimed at me, and that you may have wanted a reply. Also, this is the internet, and people don't need an excuse to hurl remarks. The only way for me to find out was to ask.
1 Like #18
Quietus
Rhianne
I worked as a prison officer and it was hard enough to get some to work when it was paid, it just wouldn't work if work was unpaid.
This sounds like a result of the prison system becoming as lenient as it has been. They should be forced to work - they are being punished after all:|

Rhianne
There's many different risk factors to take into consideration when granting release on temporary licence, you can't just let anyone out as most would abscond!
Of course, and there would have to be provisions in place to stop it happening. The problem is leniency all the time. Having all inmates aware that if anybody runs, they get tased, and has their sentence extended would be a deterrent. Or, again, those collars from Battle Royale 2.X)

There's no real solution to it. I'm not suggesting it's practical with the way things are currently operating - it's just a theoretical 'ideal world' solution, and it's never likely to happen.

You can't force a prisoner to work, if they don't attend work then their pay will be docked and they will receive a warning. If 90 prisoners decided not to go to work then there's not a lot that 3 of you can do about it.

They can't all work either due to age, mental state etc.

Ooo a silver candycane :3
1 Like #19
Wilko (Wilkinson Hardware) has been using cheap prison labour for years.

http://www.againstprisonslavery.org/hmps_list.html?EPS=English+Prison+Service
#20
Rhianne
You can't force a prisoner to work, if they don't attend work then their pay will be docked and they will receive a warning. If 90 prisoners decided not to go to work then there's not a lot that 3 of you can do about it.
As I said, there are always going to be exceptions. They should be given the choice: Work or spend the day in a proper cell. No frills, and no pandering. Most inmates would soon see getting outside as a privilege.

Well done on the deer.:)
#21
Quietus
Rhianne
I worked as a prison officer and it was hard enough to get some to work when it was paid, it just wouldn't work if work was unpaid.
This sounds like a result of the prison system becoming as lenient as it has been. They should be forced to work - they are being punished after all:|

Rhianne
There's many different risk factors to take into consideration when granting release on temporary licence, you can't just let anyone out as most would abscond!
Of course, and there would have to be provisions in place to stop it happening. The problem is leniency all the time. Having all inmates aware that if anybody runs, they get tased, and has their sentence extended would be a deterrent. Or, again, those collars from Battle Royale 2.X)

There's no real solution to it. I'm not suggesting it's practical with the way things are currently operating - it's just a theoretical 'ideal world' solution, and it's never likely to happen.
Sorry, Quietus.

The prison officer posting in here knows first hand what he/she is talking about - I know a couple who also work in that field, and they do talk a lot of sense.

You seem to have this idea that it's all about punishment and using force - and that anything less is leniency.

Unfortunately historical facts just obliterate the above idea.

The one statement I do agree with you on is; 'There (appears to be) no real solution to it.'
#22
tryn2help
You seem to have this idea that it's all about punishment and using force - and that anything less is leniency.
Not at all. I do feel that the prison system has moved away from punishment, but that was never really a solution in the first place. I'm just stating what I think would be an ideal scenario. I wasn't implying that there was any chance of a real world application, nor would I ever expect it to happen. It's just wishful thinking in response to the 'what do I think of inmates earning' topic - I think they should be working to benefit us.:)
#23
Quietus
tryn2help
You seem to have this idea that it's all about punishment and using force - and that anything less is leniency.
Not at all. I do feel that the prison system has moved away from punishment, but that was never really a solution in the first place. I'm just stating what I think would be an ideal scenario. I wasn't implying that there was any chance of a real world application, nor would I ever expect it to happen. It's just wishful thinking in response to the 'what do I think of inmates earning' topic - I think they should be working to benefit us.:)
I don't know the answers any more than anybody else does.

I suppose we have the benefits of looking at systems throughout history all over the world, and the effects/results they had.
We've also got a whole host of reports/books written by people who have spent their lives studying almost every angle of the prison debate.
Yet, even with all this work on the subject, every society on the planet has consistently failed to come up with something that actually works.

It's been mentioned in many of these works that it's society's desire for revenge that may be preventing us from finding something that works.
#24
tryn2help
I suppose we have the benefits of looking at systems throughout history all over the world, and the effects/results they had.
We've also got a whole host of reports/books written by people who have spent their lives studying almost every angle of the prison debate.
Yet, even with all this work on the subject, every society on the planet has consistently failed to come up with something that actually works.

It's been mentioned in many of these works that it's society's desire for revenge that may be preventing us from finding something that works.
Probably. We could always just wait for the Three Precogs to appear.X)
#25
Rhianne
Quietus
I don't think they should earn money. They are supposed to be their as a punishment, and I think that they should do labour that is beneficial to society, such as litter picking, replacing street lights, rural hedge / bank cutting, or painting kerbs (or whatever) in public areas for safety.

I worked as a prison officer and it was hard enough to get some to work when it was paid, it just wouldn't work if work was unpaid.

There's many different risk factors to take into consideration when granting release on temporary licence, you can't just let anyone out as most would abscond!

Never seen that happen before to that degree, the odd one maybe due to psychological reasons (ie they are scared senseless from paranoia they may get a beating) and of course the nonces. However most in my experience see it as extra "association" time out of thir cells and mingle with prisoners from other wings - often people they know on the "out".
#26
if i get sent to prison i think i may be able to `retire` from employment while serving my sentence.

but i'll keep myself mentally active by watching daytime tv!

http://insidetime.org/articleview.asp?a=404&c=pensions_for_prisoners

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/Justice/Older-prisoners.pdf

Edited By: seb on Dec 15, 2014 14:09
#27
Prison guards discover inmate building himself a STUDY to read in peace

WHEN prison guards found an inmate tunnelling through his cell wall, they assumed he was trying to escape – until it emerged that the prisoner was actually trying to build himself a STUDY...


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/547028/Prisoner-tunnels-prison-wall-build-study

Edited By: seb on Dec 15, 2014 14:21
#28
harlzter
Rhianne
Quietus
I don't think they should earn money. They are supposed to be their as a punishment, and I think that they should do labour that is beneficial to society, such as litter picking, replacing street lights, rural hedge / bank cutting, or painting kerbs (or whatever) in public areas for safety.

I worked as a prison officer and it was hard enough to get some to work when it was paid, it just wouldn't work if work was unpaid.

There's many different risk factors to take into consideration when granting release on temporary licence, you can't just let anyone out as most would abscond!

Never seen that happen before to that degree, the odd one maybe due to psychological reasons (ie they are scared senseless from paranoia they may get a beating) and of course the nonces. However most in my experience see it as extra "association" time out of thir cells and mingle with prisoners from other wings - often people they know on the "out".

Sex offenders are required to work, all adult prisoners are required to work by law unless they are unable for whatever reason i.e. age etc.

There was never any mass refusal of attendance, just the regulars who couldn't be bothered to get out of bed some days.

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