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Fixed Penalty Notice!

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I recieved a fixed penalty notice for failure to display my tax disc! But all that had happened was the tax disc holder had become "unstuck" from the window and the tax disc slipped down but the top o…
Kelly928 Avatar
8y, 9m agoPosted 8 years, 9 months ago
I recieved a fixed penalty notice for failure to display my tax disc! But all that had happened was the tax disc holder had become "unstuck" from the window and the tax disc slipped down but the top of it was still visible! (Otherwise i wouldn't have seen it!)
I have chosen to request a court hearing to try and appeal it!
Just wondering if this has happened to anyone or anyone know much about the chances of an appeal?
I have a completely clean record, insurance, tax, m.o.t and nothing visibly wrong with my car!
Also since i have bought a new holder!!
What do ya reakon??
Kelly928 Avatar
8y, 9m agoPosted 8 years, 9 months ago
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#1
I reckon you'll be fine, if the disc that "wasn't displayed" didn't exist, it'd be a different matter.
#2
It shouldn't need to go to court. Contact them and explain - they will have a record of your tax disc anyway so I can't imagine it will be a problem. Good luck.
banned#3
They will probably have photos to present to the court. I always thought Tax discs had to be stuck onto the windscreen so they are visible.

I agree with your views though. Its not fair to get done for no tax when you have genuinely paid for it.

Have you spoken to the isuing office? AFAIK you can request to see the evidence. (I did when I was done for being in a bus lane. Long story - but its a very profitable trap. I was turning left and crossed the bus lane about 15 yards too early. Snap. nothing I could do. )
It might be an idea for you to have a photo from an angle that will clearly show that you had infact displayed the disc - just not where the "lazy" person could be bothered to look. Worth a try anyway!
#4
I was issued it at 04.35 in the morning would you believe!! My dad reakons he needed some sort of proof that he/she was actually working so he/she picked on me!!
They would of needed a torch that early!!
#5
Who issued it?
#6
A..... P.c
#7
Look on the bright side Least they didn't clamp your car . They clamped my mates car . Can't remember how much it cost !
banned#8
KELLY 'N' STEVE;1960786
I was issued it at 04.35 in the morning would you believe!! My dad reakons he needed some sort of proof that he/she was actually working so he/she picked on me!!
They would of needed a torch that early!!


Thats in your favour. They would need to provide proof. A photo would have flash bounce back - and I bet they didnt take one.

Ask to see the photo and state to them that you are disputing their claim. Do not leave it. Take it up with the issuer straight away. Dont leave it to get to court. That might go against you if you did.
banned#9
KELLY 'N' STEVE;1960840
A..... P.c


Makes no odds. You can prove you have paid your tax. Can he prove it wasnt displayed?
#10
if you read the t&c's on the back of the disc it does say failure to display fine etc

ask for the photograph to be submitted to you before court for you to review the evidence
and the reason why your car was personally looked at as a dvla or police with onboard camera would have not flagged the car!!!

this is personal by the looks of it
#11
guv
Makes no odds. You can prove you have paid your tax. Can he prove it wasnt displayed?


Good point, so no photo = no fine??


Wanderer - what do you mean flagged??
banned#12
its all on computer at dvla you should be alright
banned#13
wanderer;1960861
this is personal by the looks of it


Or just plain nastyness.

Its in the OP advantage here. Since it was very dark, its highly probable that he just didnt see the disk. Whatever.... he still needs to provide that photo.
banned#14
KELLY 'N' STEVE;1960880
Good point, so no photo = no fine??


If he hasnt, then they havent a leg to stand on. The court needs to be satisfied an offence has been committed. Since you are disputing this and can prove the disc was paid and displayed on the dash via your newly taken photo, he needs to prove otherwise.

As I said, you need to ring the number on the FPN and ask to see the photo as you are disputing their facts.
1 Like #15
KELLY 'N' STEVE
A..... P.c


Well I would phone and ask them to revoke the ticket. As its a PC he/she wont have any photo evidence. I would then request that it goes to court. With the evidence that you hold a tax disk for the car and it was 4.35 in the morning Im 99% sure they will drop it.

If you dont get anywhere I would suggest you write a letter to the chief constable to complain.
I would also write to your MP about the wasted resources at your police force.
1 Like #16
danby jason
its all on computer at dvla you should be alright


There is a difference between failing to have and failing to display. Having tax is irrelevant in a failing to display case.

I would say that they probably do have a photo and if you go to court, you will just end up paying more. Even if they dont have a photo, its your word against a PCs.

If its not an endorseable offence, which I dont think it is, I would just pay the fine and learn from it.

By the way, if you do go to court, dont say "yeah but you could see the top of it". You are just admitting that it wasnt displayed properly. You have to say that it was displayed just fine.
#17
So what is the best option? Ring and ask if they have evidence? Or just wait for the appeal date to come through?

"If its not an endorseable offence, which I dont think it is, I would just pay the fine and learn from it."

I cant as i have already requested an appeal!
#18
I know people won't agree with me here but the offence is failing to display a tax disc, the officer is not saying you didn't have one and if I am not mistaken it wasn't really visable. At that time in the morning he / she can't look to see if it may have slipped down and the corner might be visable. As far as they were concerned it wasn't in the usual place so they issued the ticket.
You aren't disputing this so why does the officer have to prove anything. Even if they took a photo it would have shown it was not where it is usually placed. Just go to court anfd explain it had slipped down. You may get off with it. Police officers don't have to take photos of everything, it is impossible to. If they catch someone breaking into a house they don't get a camera out to prove it, an offficers statement is taken as being truthful. But then in this situation that is the case.
There is no reason to lobby MP's etc as the officer was just doing his / her job. The law is there for a reason and as far as they were concerned it wasn't being followed.:)
banned 1 Like #19
wookiemummy;1961100
I know people won't agree with me here but the offence is failing to display a tax disc, the officer is not saying you didn't have one and if I am not mistaken it wasn't really visable.


Gee. You werent even there, but saw it wasn't visible!

At that time in the morning he / she can't look to see if it may have slipped down and the corner might be visable. As far as they were concerned it wasn't in the usual place so they issued the ticket.


So a fine is ok for being copped by a lazy policeman who couldnt be bothered to check? Dunno about everyone else, but I would have preferred he went and caught some real criminals!
#20
KELLY 'N' STEVE
So what is the best option? Ring and ask if they have evidence? Or just wait for the appeal date to come through?

"If its not an endorseable offence, which I dont think it is, I would just pay the fine and learn from it."

I cant as i have already requested an appeal!


Difficult to say wot to do. You either have to say that it just slipped down, in which case you are just admitting it was not being displayed properly. Or you have to dispute the evidence, in which case you are saying a police officer is incorrect (held back from saying lieing there!)

I guess the best thing to do is say that it was fine when you left the car the evening before (as you check it every night when you walk past it ;-) ) and that it slipped down in the night. You cannot have control over what happens to your car when it is unattended.

I still think you will end up paying more, sorry :cry:
#21
Hi,
Lots of lower deck lawyers here, you havent got a leg to stand on, there is no obligation to photograph what so ever, Its my sphere of work, I would suggest that the majority are issued automatically and it would be unlikely to go much further if you sent in a photocopy of your disc, quite rightly it was stated that the offence is failing to display, its got absolutely nothing to do with whether you have/ have not got one.
As for the officer proving it was not on display, can you prove it was? like many road traffic offences the onus is on the driver.
Try the photocopy and dont get fly with them, you'll lose.
banned#22
Keith26;1961364
Hi,
Lots of lower deck lawyers here, you havent got a leg to stand on, there is no obligation to photograph what so ever, Its my sphere of work, I would suggest that the majority are issued automatically and it would be unlikely to go much further if you sent in a photocopy of your disc, quite rightly it was stated that the offence is failing to display, its got absolutely nothing to do with whether you have/ have not got one.
As for the officer proving it was not on display, can you prove it was? like many road traffic offences the onus is on the driver.
Try the photocopy and dont get fly with them, you'll lose.


I doubt very much they would say "oh ok then, not to worry, we'll bin it then. And I think we have established what the alledged offence was - that took place in the pitch black on night. But don't let that little fact interfere with this night visioned police officers evidence.
#23
guv
Gee. You werent even there, but saw it wasn't visible!




So a fine is ok for being copped by a lazy policeman who couldnt be bothered to check? Dunno about everyone else, but I would have preferred he went and caught some real criminals!



The poster stated that the whole thing wasn't visable, only the top part!


In case you didn't realise 'real criminals' use cars and often don't display tax discs.A lot of information can be gained from issuing fixed penalty notices. If the officer went around checking every inch of every car you would say they were wasting their time.
At the end of the day what wrong with telling the truth. What sad state society is in if people are willing to lie on oath to get out of a fine. Tell the truth and it is up to the magistrate to decide what is classed as visable. People moan about the police but they are only doing a job and upholding the law.

Are police officers not able to see things at night?? They do use torches. What is the point of officers being on duty at night if their evidence is then thrown out because it was dark! They also have to put that sort of stuff in their statements (ie visability, distance etc) . Please do not have a dig at the police. The fact still remains that it wasn't displayed properly and it is up to the magistrate to decide whether it was or not by people being truthful
#24
wookiemummy
The poster stated that the whole thing wasn't visable, only the top part!


In case you didn't realise 'real criminals' use cars and often don't display tax discs.A lot of information can be gained from issuing fixed penalty notices. If the officer went around checking every inch of every car you would say they were wasting their time.
At the end of the day what wrong with telling the truth. What sad state society is in if people are willing to lie on oath to get out of a fine. Tell the truth and it is up to the magistrate to decide what is classed as visable. People moan about the police but they are only doing a job and upholding the law.


Just to say i don't intend on lying, i just want them to realise it had slipped without myself being aware of it and just hope for the best!
banned#25
wookiemummy;1961444
People moan about the police but they are only doing a job and upholding the law.


The law is an ass. If he was doing his job, he would have radioed through for the status of the car. Fair enough if it wasnt taxed - and good for him. But the law is an ass when someone is done the same as someone who has avoided payment and "genuinely illegal". You can quote all the technicalities you like, but I wont agree its fair or justified.
#26
You have the right to ask for the photo evidence if any. If they do provide a photo i would pay immediately as lets face it most magistrates have nothing better to do then heap misery on people.If you argue with these people you'll just get a bigger fine and end up paying costs. As a motorist you are guilty unless you pay lots for a top lawyer to be proved innocent, is it worth the agro to prove a point.
#27
guv
The law is an ass. If he was doing his job, he would have radioed through for the status of the car. Fair enough if it wasnt taxed - and good for him. But the law is an ass when someone is done the same as someone who has avoided payment and "genuinely illegal". You can quote all the technicalities you like, but I wont agree its fair or justified.


I think I have read you correctly, that you think that someone who hasn't got tax is 'done' the same as someone who fails to display. My figures may be out on this one but from memory the penalty notice is £40 and having no tax is around £1000. Not trying to argue with you and I know you feel it is unfair but I am just pointing out the facts.:)
The poster is just unlucky on this one. Go to court and tell them. It's down to luck of the day
banned#28
what the hell would pc plod be doing peering into your car at 4am, hoping to find hancky pancky maybe, where was your car parked?
banned#29
guv
Gee. You werent even there, but saw it wasn't visible!


To be fair it does say in the opening post the tax disc holder had become "unstuck" from the window and the tax disc slipped down but the top of it was still visible!

So a fine is ok for being copped by a lazy policeman who couldnt be bothered to check? Dunno about everyone else, but I would have preferred he went and caught some real criminals!


He did check, it wasn't displayed, so issued a ticket :roll:
A lazy policeman would have just said 'stuff it, I'm too busy eating my do'nut to get out the car, let him/her off' :p

I would certainly be asking for the evidence, stating as far as you were aware it was displayed correctly.
banned#30
sassie
what the hell would pc plod be doing peering into your car at 4am, hoping to find hancky pancky maybe, where was your car parked?


not everyone is dogging at 4 in the morning sassie ;-)
#31
sassie
what the hell would pc plod be doing peering into your car at 4am, hoping to find hancky pancky maybe, where was your car parked?


Doing his job instead of sitting in the station watching tv?. He was probably trying to catch 'real criminals' :thumbsup:
banned 1 Like #32
wookiemummy
Doing his job instead of sitting in the station watching tv?. He was probably trying to catch 'real criminals' :thumbsup:


yes, thats another probability - lol
#33
Sassie, I like the way your mind works. We all now know why you are out in your car at 4am and it's obviously not for illegal purposes - LOL
Have some rep for making me laugh
#34
My car was parked outside my house on a normal street!!
The fine is £60.
banned#35
wookiemummy
Sassie, I like the way your mind works. We all now know why you are out in your car at 4am and it's obviously not for illegal purposes - LOL
Have some rep for making me laugh


Firstly i cant drive, secondly if i could i wouldnt be able to afford a car, thirdly at 4am i am tucked up in bed and lastly if i wanted a bit of hankie pancie in the back of a car at 4am i have two children to look after.
#36
thats so rubbish....hope u kick their butts in court!
banned#37
wookiemummy;1961593
I think I have read you correctly, that you think that someone who hasn't got tax is 'done' the same as someone who fails to display. My figures may be out on this one but from memory the penalty notice is £40 and having no tax is around £1000. Not trying to argue with you and I know you feel it is unfair but I am just pointing out the facts.:)


Fair point, though to be honest, do people get fined the maximim each time? I think the main point here is the fact they know the car is taxed. A note to say your tax disc has fallen down should be all that is needed. As you can gather, its silly things like this that annoys the hell out of me. My dad got done once for having his blue badge on display the wrong way round. Granted, there was no way of knowing it was valid, but being able to prove it was should have meant no fine was payable. Alas, no excuses - your nicked, pay up. Criminality should be a deliberate act in this sort of issues, not a genuine mistake.
#38
http://www.forumsextreme.com/imgs1/sSig_thanks.gifThanks everyone for all your input, i hope they do see it was an honest mistake and the fact i have a clean record should give me a little help!! I don't really have £60 to waste on this http://www.forumsextreme.com/imgs1/sSig_censored.gif !!
#39
Im glad I don't live near you in the winter, when its frosty this PC will have a field day!

He could issue 500 tickets in one shift!

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