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Former Employer owing money- help!!

ilovelilac Avatar
6y, 6m agoPosted 6 years, 6 months ago
OH used to work at this toy/gadget shop for my former friend who was his employer! anyways on 3rd of May OH wrote to the employer he wants to take holiday in June cos his contract says holiday period is from July 1st-till July 1st, OH has been working there since August and had only used 11 days of holiday at that time, the contract said 28 days paid holiday a year and OH thinks hes suppposed to have 17 days left but the employer calls him about 8pm saying he only has 7 days left :?
Anyways the next day when OH got to work at 9:30am he got a letter from employer saying hes actually entitled to 25.6666 days a year and has 14.6 for holiday left :? same day at 12:30 he give OH a letter saying hes suspended and due to attend a disciplinary on thursday...
reasons for suspension:
*apparently OH has been shooting BB guns at customers (whatever that means)
*OH has been reducing prices of products with his permission (err no he hasnt!)
*OH took £20 out of the till (wtf my OH would never steal and a mere £20 how insulting

disciplinary hearing on thursday but employer says all this stuff to him but has no proof

anyway will give you a background on this guy, he owns to shops and sells online too he started online only initially but decided to open shops instead, hes been having bailiff round since November last year cos he can never keep up with payments! especially last month he had to close his shop 6 times last month and OH lost a lot of working hours :( he pays all his staff late every single month and accused all of his staff members of stealing, in the past 6 months 7 people have stopped working for him, 4 left 3 got fired so instead of 2 or 3 people working in the shop at one time one person had to do it mostly my Oh cos hes good at his job he had to take up more responsibility basically running the shop on his own and no extra pay- OH had been looking for a new job since november but nothing was coming up so he just had to stick with it
I stopped being friends with the guy in october last year cos of the way he treated my OH

i'll SUMMARISE!!
* OH asks for his holiday pay, gets suspended then gets fired without a letter(employer said he'll call Oh on friday after the disciplinary but no call so OH goes there on Saturday and employer tells him hes posted a letter saying hes dismissed, we still havent received that letter :? )
question is whats the best way to get the nincompoop to pay up???

OH started a new job on the 10th and is very busy at the moment and i have lots of time and i want what we're owed :)
ilovelilac Avatar
6y, 6m agoPosted 6 years, 6 months ago
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1 Like #1
Maybe best trying your local CAB?

Your OH is well rid, that man sounds awful :x
#2
plus the contract said employees will get paid while suspended, since OH never got a dismissal letter can we claim pay while on suspension............
#3
whatsThePoint
Phew !!


lol
munnski
Maybe best trying your local CAB?

Your OH is well rid, that man sounds awful :x


yea imagine going dreading going to work cos you dislike your employer that much, the guy only 'acts professional' when it suits him, hes always bitching about other employees to OH and then cries when bailiff come round but then all of a sudden he acts like mr high and mighty :x

i cant find a local CAB here, it looks like its just for foreign people or children i dunno why :?
#4
ilovelilac
lol


yea imagine going dreading going to work cos you dislike your employer that much, the guy only 'acts professional' when it suits him, hes always bitching about other employees to OH and then cries when bailiff come round but then all of a sudden he acts like mr high and mighty :x

i cant find a local CAB here, it looks like its just for foreign people or children i dunno why :?


That's strange :? Maybe the small claims court is the best way to go, or can you get a free consultation with a lawyer who deals with this kind of stuff?

This guy sounds really unprofessional, and I think your OH will be a lot happier away from that place ( it sounds like it might get shut down soon anyways! )
#5
whatsThePoint
Small claims court


OH calculated that hes owing him £918 before tax, would a small claims court charge us?
1 Like #6
You could give the CAB a ring, I think they have a call centre type helpline as well.
Plus, have another look locally, I'm certain the CAB doesn't discriminate against the people, it is there to help anyone/everyone who needs them.
1 Like #7
Pop into a solicitor to get some sound, sensible advice. In my town theres one that deal in employment law.
It sounds as though the owner off the shop hasnt followed any sort of employment law.
I doubt you will get any noney out of him. It sounds as though he hasnt got any! Good luck that. I would put it down to experience.
#8
ilovelilac
OH calculated that hes owing him £918 before tax, would a small claims court charge us?


I believe there is a £60 charge to get the ball rolling on the small claims court route.
1 Like #9
ilovelilac;8713462
OH calculated that hes owing him £918 before tax, would a small claims court charge us?


£35 odd to put a claim in, returned when you win. Consult CAB though - sounds like a good case for unfair dismissal amongst other things.

Edit - sickly sweet is correct, will be £60/£65 for a claim of £500-£1000...
#10
munnski
That's strange :? Maybe the small claims court is the best way to go, or can you get a free consultation with a lawyer who deals with this kind of stuff?

This guy sounds really unprofessional, and I think your OH will be a lot happier away from that place ( it sounds like it might get shut down soon anyways! )


he contacted on of those free lawyers when he got suspended but they said they were busy and would contact him in 2-3 weeks :( they called him back next day and he cant really sue cos hes worked there for under a year and he should just wait till he gets paid, and today his payday and the employer said he'll pay OH what hes owed on payday no money in acc about 2pm today so OH texts him and the stupid guy puts £54 in :? wheres the rest! this was how Oh used to get his monthly pay, he'd have to call the employer to pay up and he'll put like maybe £200 on the friday morning and after OH demands his money he'll pay the rest gradually, sometimes takes him up to wednesday after payday to pay all the money some of the Oh staff dont get theirs for up to 10 days :?
#11
ilovelilac;8713508
he contacted on of those free lawyers when he got suspended but they said they were busy and would contact him in 2-3 weeks :( they called him back next day and he cant really sue cos hes worked there for under a year and he should just wait till he gets paid, and today his payday and the employer said he'll pay OH what hes owed on payday no money in acc about 2pm today so OH texts him and the stupid guy puts £54 in :? wheres the rest! this was how Oh used to get his monthly pay, he'd have to call the employer to pay up and he'll put like maybe £200 on the friday morning and after OH demands his money he'll pay the rest gradually, sometimes takes him up to wednesday after payday to pay all the money some of the Oh staff dont get theirs for up to 10 days :?


Has you OH been paid legally (PAYE?) - does he have payslips with records of hours and tax, NI and company NI paid? Does he have a P60 for 2009/2010?
#12
without knowing full facts and the contract of employment wording, no one can answer your question. An employment tribunal maybe be approached for monies owed but unless you consult a knowledgeable party such as a solicitor or CAB you cannot get a definitive answer.
#13
leecroot
Pop into a solicitor to get some sound, sensible advice. In my town theres one that deal in employment law.
It sounds as though the owner off the shop hasnt followed any sort of employment law.
I doubt you will get any noney out of him. It sounds as though he hasnt got any! Good luck that. I would put it down to experience.


i know he has no money thats the worrying bit :(

sickly sweet
I believe there is a £60 charge to get the ball rolling on the small claims court route.


sickly sweet
You could give the CAB a ring, I think they have a call centre type helpline as well.
Plus, have another look locally, I'm certain the CAB doesn't discriminate against the people, it is there to help anyone/everyone who needs them.


ok i'll find a number but this is the link to the CAB in my area
http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/getadvice.htm?txt_search=435400,386600&txt_display=Sheffield,%20South%20Yorkshire

cant do much now cos its the weekend and bank holiday but if he doesnt pay up on tuesday, we'll call CAB and see what they advice

jah128
£35 odd to put a claim in, returned when you win. Consult CAB though - sounds like a good case for unfair dismissal amongst other things.



Edit - sickly sweet is correct, will be £60/£65 for a claim of £500-£1000...


yea, the lawyer people said OH cant claim unfair dismissal cos hes worked there for under a year and its gonna be expensive for them or something but the other people can and if they do they can use OH's statement as evidence, they all said they'll sue but think everyone cant be bothered now cos we know he hasnt got money :x i just want what OH is owed
banned 1 Like #14
Dont use one of these free lawyers.

Do you have home insurance with legal protection? If you do, this can assist. Something similar happened to me in 2002. It covered the use of a solicitor and a barister on the day. I won a 5 figure settlement and everything was mine. That wouldnt be the case with the lawyers you speak of as they'd take between 40 and 60 percent of that money. You'd be better off doing it yourself if you dont have this cover.

When handing the tribunal form in, just make sure you have everything down correctly. I could have got much more if I'd gone for several options I hadnt used.
1 Like #15
ilovelilac
plus the contract said employees will get paid while suspended, since OH never got a dismissal letter can we claim pay while on suspension............


It all sounds a bit fishy. In my experience of dismissing employees a suspension letter is served first, followed by a meeting. After the meeting their fate is decided and they come back for a second meeting where they're told of the decision. I know different companies have different rules though, but it sounds like this bloke makes his own up.

As for the wages being paid in drips and drabs. It reminds me of my first job, every time it was pay day I would have to add up my hours myself, because the owner invariably shorted me, literally every pay day. I don't understand why he did this - every time I caught him, and every time he paid up with no fuss. In the end I left because of it.
#16
jah128
Has you OH been paid legally (PAYE?) - does he have payslips with records of hours and tax, NI and company NI paid? Does he have a P60 for 2009/2010?


dunno what all that means, but we literally had to threaten this guy before he gave OH his payslip and its a fake ass one cos its not like the one you get in the post with the blue stuff on it, he makes it and prints it himself and was gonna initially email it to OH but i told OH to make sure he gets it printed, on other payslips OH has had in the past, theres a section about holiday pay and things but this one doesnt even have it! A couple of months ago one of his employees found out he hadnt put the tax stuff through even though he took tax payment out and she told him and he gave her the cash difference :? hes so bloody unprofessional and then he writes 'professional letters' with stupid cheap fake 'company' letter headed paper when he feels like it.
the payslips do have a tax code and Oh's NI number with gross pay and deduction details but its just A4 paper it doesnt look like a proper payslip to me he just give it to OH when i tell OH to make him give it to him

tonyd19565
without knowing full facts and the contract of employment wording, no one can answer your question. An employment tribunal maybe be approached for monies owed but unless you consult a knowledgeable party such as a solicitor or CAB you cannot get a definitive answer.


well we have a copy of the contract, he only gave contract to OH in march, even though OH's been working there since august!
only 2 employees got a contract btw :?
#17
Hey Lilac

Is he a member of a trade union? If not, look online and see if he can join one. They get quite a lot of people joining when there is an issue to be resolved (as in this current case), so he may have to sign up for a year minimum, but is always worth being a member of one anyway. They will know exactly what to do, and will attend any investigation/disciplinary hearings with your O.H.

Also, does he have a disciplinary policy included with the letter, as all evidence must be provided before any disciplinary hearing. (proof of stealing cash etc). He seems to run a small business (badly too)! so may not.

How are you btw ;-)
#18
ilovelilac;8713632
dunno what all that means...


Sounds very unprofessional - I'd be very worried that the company hasn't being paying the correct amounts of tax and NI contributions. I'd consult CAB and the tax office ASAP to find out if he has been paid correctly...
#19
guv
Dont use one of these free lawyers.

Do you have home insurance with legal protection? If you do, this can assist. Something similar happened to me in 2002. It covered the use of a solicitor and a barister on the day. I won a 5 figure settlement and everything was mine. That wouldnt be the case with the lawyers you speak of as they'd take between 40 and 60 percent of that money. You'd be better off doing it yourself if you dont have this cover.

When handing the tribunal form in, just make sure you have everything down correctly. I could have got much more if I'd gone for several options I hadnt used.


nah no home insurance planning to get one in july might be too late then :?
yea i made OH keep a 'diary' of every hours he did since January cos sometimes bailiff comes and he'd have to close the shop for the day and there was a period he kept changing OH's shifts making him go to the other store so OH worked between 2 stores, the other store was like 50 mins away!! and he said he'd pay for OH's tram pass but never did :x

OH is at work now so we'll call CAB tuesday cos of bank holiday and get advice off them

nickw90
It all sounds a bit fishy. In my experience of dismissing employees a suspension letter is served first, followed by a meeting. After the meeting their fate is decided and they come back for a second meeting where they're told of the decision. I know different companies have different rules though, but it sounds like this bloke makes his own up.

As for the wages being paid in drips and drabs. It reminds me of my first job, every time it was pay day I would have to add up my hours myself, because the owner invariably shorted me, literally every pay day. I don't understand why he did this - every time I caught him, and every time he paid up with no fuss. In the end I left because of it.


we'll thats what it says on the contract about a letter, i think he just copied and pasted that from somewhere tbh cos he doesnt follow what he says on the contract, this guy used to underpay OH too that why i had OH keep a diary and to know how many hours hes done and get all hes owed, some people shouldnt be allowed to run a business!!

this guy is 22 btw, he was at uni doing his gadget selling business online part time and was doing well with it! but after his 2nd year at uni he 1st opened a stall on the market-fair enough, and closes the market then he opens another shop near town ok fair enough cos the market smelt sometimes then he opens a shop in a shopping centre! signed a 5 year lease and cant afford, was crying to OH in February that he couldnt cope and was just gonna close down the shop in the shopping centre but he just begged money off his parent to pay the bailiff but they just keep coming back anyways :roll:

he still hasnt finished his uni degree, studying busniess he was meant to go back part time but hes not been able to cope, tried to help and encourage him but hes a liar and cant trust him so just stopped being friends with him
banned#20
night school spelling lessons?
#21
cw9652
Hey Lilac

Is he a member of a trade union? If not, look online and see if he can join one. They get quite a lot of people joining when there is an issue to be resolved (as in this current case), so he may have to sign up for a year minimum, but is always worth being a member of one anyway. They will know exactly what to do, and will attend any investigation/disciplinary hearings with your O.H.

Also, does he have a disciplinary policy included with the letter, as all evidence must be provided before any disciplinary hearing. (proof of stealing cash etc). He seems to run a small business (badly too)! so may not.

How are you btw ;-)


the contract says " there are no collective agreements with trade unions or other employee groups affecting this employment."
he said if you cant provide satisfactory explanation in this regard, referring to the things he accused OH of that your employment may be terminated with our disciplinary procedure but hes not even followed the disciplinary procedure on the contract he just accused OH without proof, hes accused everyone of stealing without proof last guy that walked out, he didnt even accuse him to his face when the guy quit he just wrote on his payslip he got end of the month (-£70 you stole from till) another girl he never even accused her she got a job at morrisons and they called him to check she worked with him and apparently he told them she used to steal from till when they didnt ask him, they employed her, they said he just sounded spiteful!!

im good finished my exams today :-D

jah128
Sounds very unprofessional - I'd be very worried that the company hasn't being paying the correct amounts of tax and NI contributions. I'd consult CAB and the tax office ASAP to find out if he has been paid correctly...


yea, hes so unprofessional on OH 1st pay cos he was working part time initially and part time with another company he requested OH's payslip and used the same tax code, OH got like £400 the next month and the tax office said cos the employer used the wrong code and made OH owe money :?
#22
toshapetriji
night school spelling lessons?




you what? :?
1 Like #23
ilovelilac
the contract says " there are no collective agreements with trade unions or other employee groups affecting this employment."
he said if you cant provide satisfactory explanation in this regard, referring to the things he accused OH of that your employment may be terminated with our disciplinary procedure but hes not even followed the disciplinary procedure on the contract he just accused OH without proof, hes accused everyone of stealing without proof last guy that walked out, he didnt even accuse him to his face when the guy quit he just wrote on his payslip he got end of the month (-£70 you stole from till) another girl he never even accused her she got a job at morrisons and they called him to check she worked with him and apparently he told them she used to steal from till when they didnt ask him, they employed her, they said he just sounded spiteful!!

im good finished my exams today :-D


Ask him to join a trade union and arrange a meeting. I promise they will help him. I've been involved in loads of these cases, and that is pretty much the route to take.

This guy can't just make up his own law.

Good!! Make sure you let me know how you do. I'm not on here much atm, but will def pop in every now and then. You still smiling hun!! :)
banned#24
cw9652
Ask him to join a trade union and arrange a meeting. I promise they will help him. I've been involved in loads of these cases, and that is pretty much the route to take.


I doubt that very much. I was a TU member for yonks, but came out 1 year before my troubles as I could see they weren't actually a lot of use and I was effectively just helping to keep them in a job.

I did as you suggested and they told me to booger off.

ilovelilac... drop magicjay a PM.... he does this stuff for a living!
#25
If he had joined in August, then he would have not accrued full holidays, He would only have about half of that, so 14 days sounds about right.
[mod]#26
His holiday is pro rata.

Take his contract of employment in to see a solicitor for a free half hour interview and they will tell you there and then if you have a claim. If they say yes, instruct them and pay for their advice.
#27
peodude
If he had joined in August, then he would have not accrued full holidays, He would only have about half of that, so 14 days sounds about right.


ok fair enough we accepted that but he still hasnt paid up plus he suspended OH so he also has to pay for that too

OH has been calling and texting him today and he hasnt even had the courtesy to reply! so OH popped to the shop today to find out why his employer wasnt replying his calls and texts, he texted him that he was outside waiting for him so the employer closes the back and didnt come out of shop Oh tries calling the landline and its engaged so he knew he was in there, anyways the employer called the police :roll: the same police officer has been there last month cos the employer accused another staff member of assault, the one that quit and apparently stole £70, the police said there was no evidence and saw the employer was just chatting crap cos his statement was rubbish, police advised OH to go home and call ACAS and take the employer to tribunal and get all thats owed, i'm so ****** off at this idiot :x

OH and i are moving to a new flat in july so we need that money :x
#28
magicjay1986
His holiday is pro rata.

Take his contract of employment in to see a solicitor for a free half hour interview and they will tell you there and then if you have a claim. If they say yes, instruct them and pay for their advice.


i dont know whta pro rata means, we cant afford any expensive solicitor fees :/ and the we'll have go see the free one but they are busy sometimes plus i've managed to find a CAB that isnt too far away

OH works from 11-8 monday-friday so its just hard for him to sort all this out now but im gonna make sure he sees CAB at 9.30am when they open on tuesday!
banned#29
ilovelilac
i dont know whta pro rata means, we cant afford any expensive solicitor fees :/ and the we'll have go see the free one but they are busy sometimes plus i've managed to find a CAB that isnt too far away

OH works from 11-8 monday-friday so its just hard for him to sort all this out now but im gonna make sure he sees CAB at 9.30am when they open on tuesday!


Pro rata means he will be allowed a proportional allowance which is directly related.

eg. If he is entitled to 20 days and he works 6 months, he would be entitled to 10 days.
[mod] 1 Like #30
ilovelilac
i dont know whta pro rata means, we cant afford any expensive solicitor fees :/ and the we'll have go see the free one but they are busy sometimes plus i've managed to find a CAB that isnt too far away

OH works from 11-8 monday-friday so its just hard for him to sort all this out now but im gonna make sure he sees CAB at 9.30am when they open on tuesday!


If you cannot afford a solicitor you will have to stick with CAB. Solicitors might be seen as expensive but good solicitors deserve their fees.

Good luck.
#31
guv
Pro rata means he will be allowed a proportional allowance which is directly related.

eg. If he is entitled to 20 days and he works 6 months, he would be entitled to 10 days.



thanks, yea he said in his letter that OH is entitled to 25.666 days and OH has only used 11 days so far so has 14.6 days left even though the previous day in his phone conversation said OH only had 7 days left, he likes to make things up so i dont trust him

OH worked mon & tues 9:30-5:50, thursday & friday 9-5:30 and sat 11-5 (this is after he cut all his hours) so hes still owing money :x
#32
magicjay1986
If you cannot afford a solicitor you will have to stick with CAB. Solicitors might be seen as expensive but good solicitors deserve their fees.

Good luck.


yea i know my mum is a solicitor/lawyer but not in this country :thumbsup: not really told her whats happening now so she doesnt get worried!
if we pay for solicitors fee we wont get much left after and we need all the money we're owed. Thanks
#33
By the sounds of it a solicitor is risky, as, if he has the bailiffs round and can't afford to pay them, then how is he going to pay you. You could well end up out of pocket even more, the only winner being the solicitor. I think the only thing you can do is keep pestering, and, if you have to, coming up with a payment plan, maybe £200 a month.
[mod]#34
peodude
By the sounds of it a solicitor is risky, as, if he has the bailiffs round and can't afford to pay them, then how is he going to pay you. You could well end up out of pocket even more, the only winner being the solicitor. I think the only thing you can do is keep pestering, and, if you have to, coming up with a payment plan, maybe £200 a month.


Third party debt order, charging order etc. There are other methods of enforcement.

I wouldnt say that the solicitor would be the winner as solicitors costs in issued "small claims" are on fixed costs.

Also, the overriding objective of the Civil Procedure Rules state that solicitors should deal with matters proportionately. Fees and interest get added to the debt.
1 Like #35
I would have thought it unlikely to win a tribunal for anything else other than discrimination or similar if employed for less than 12 months. I may be completely wrong though.

I'd try Acas for advice.
banned#36
ilovelilac;8713462
OH calculated that hes owing him £918 before tax, would a small claims court charge us?

28 days holiday is more than I have ever seen. You sure 8 days of that isnt the bank holidays leaving 20 days paid holiday?

as OH didnt start until august, then by the end of may will only have accrued 9 full months of work = 3/4 of 20 days holiday = 15 days.

Less 11 already taken then employer owes for 4 days work in my book. No idea where £918 comes from.
banned#37
csiman
28 days holiday is more than I have ever seen. You sure 8 days of that isnt the bank holidays leaving 20 days paid holiday?


I think you are probably right on this - though just posting to say at one time I used to get 32 days + the bank holidays. They reduced it to 28 days + bank holidays now.

I think that Train drivers on the London Underground get 56 days!
#38
csiman
28 days holiday is more than I have ever seen. You sure 8 days of that isnt the bank holidays leaving 20 days paid holiday?

as OH didnt start until august, then by the end of may will only have accrued 9 full months of work = 3/4 of 20 days holiday = 15 days.

Less 11 already taken then employer owes for 4 days work in my book. No idea where £918 comes from.


nah contract says 28 days! Even the letter he wrote on the 4th of May said OH had 25.666 days of holiday with 14.6 days left, OH used to work on bank holidays and the **** never even paid him double time :x his christmas bonus was £20 :? even though the employer said OH would get more bonuses

plus he owes OH a weeks wage cos Oh worked 3rd of may and got suspended on the 4th and was only told on 8th that he was dismissed after employer claimed he had posted him a letter of dismissal that we still havent received or his p45 or anything, if Oh didnt go down to that shop on the 8th he'd still think he was suspended, its just so wrong and unprofessional!
#39
jtx
I would have thought it unlikely to win a tribunal for anything else other than discrimination or similar if employed for less than 12 months. I may be completely wrong though.

I'd try Acas for advice.


yea that i've posted previously that the lawyer OH saw said cos hes not worked for more than a year he cant claim unfair dismissal(well he can but unlikely to win like you said) but the case if different now cos hes owing OH money :thumbsup: luckily we have proof from that letter stating how many days of how may holiday days left and a letter that says the date OH got suspended as well as his contract! It so sad when someone works so hard and the employer doesnt want to pay the employee if you cant afford the business then dont employ ppl ffs takes the ****



i cant give out any more rep at the moment, thanks :)
banned#40
Its unfortunately all too common for employers to sack employees as they are coming up to 1 year and a legal foothold.

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