Gig tickets - between touts and resellers what's the point - HotUKDeals
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Gig tickets - between touts and resellers what's the point

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I spent a couple of hours this morning trying to get tickets for a gig I really wanted to go to. I spent ages with multiple browsers open, refreshing the page but no joy. Now I know that it would be … Read More
badger2609 Avatar
1m, 2w agoPosted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
I spent a couple of hours this morning trying to get tickets for a gig I really wanted to go to. I spent ages with multiple browsers open, refreshing the page but no joy.
Now I know that it would be a popular gig, and I'd also be up against touts who just want to buy to make a profit, but the most frustrating thing was that even whilst I was attempting to secure a ticket, secondary ticketing adverts were appearing on the Web page offering tickets for the gig at 3 or 4 times the price!
The most annoying thing was that the site that kept popping up was also owned by the official ticket agency....... How is this possible that there are no tickets left on the official site, yet the secondary site, owned by the same company have tickets at massively inflated prices.
How come there is no regulation to stop fans being ripped off in this way? Reselling and touts have been a problem for years, but with the Internet age has just made the problems worse.
I don't know the answer, maybe insisting that only the named person on a ticket can attend? Any thoughts?
Apologies for the big rant
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badger2609 Avatar
1m, 2w agoPosted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
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1 Like #1
The government should make it law that anyone who buys a ticket has there photo and details on it like Glastonbury does but somewhere they must have there hand in the pie cos it's not rocket science to solve the tout problem.
1 Like #2
There was discussion of a law on restricting ticket vendor / re-seller tactics (not sure if it passed in the end) iirc it was going to outlaw the use of bots to buy tickets for resale. Seems pretty hard to enforce ofc (_;)

But yeah as it stands at the moment you are up against bots set to buy hundreds or even thousands of tickets all at once instantly when they become available.. so basically you have no chance except buying from the 'resellers' aka scalpers. Sucks
#3
If it was for Jamiroquai Manchester. Please let me know and I will send you my viagogo link. :p


Also, it is nothing the Government should get involved in.. They get involved in enough, this is private companies and private business.

Edited By: Chiptivo on Mar 10, 2017 21:57
1 Like #4
I agree it's wrong but if people didn't pay stupid prices then there potentially wouldn't be ticket touts/scams

But there's always some stupid muppet prepared to pay over the odds which creates the problem which most sensible fans have to suffer.
#5
philphil61
I agree it's wrong but if people didn't pay stupid prices then there potentially wouldn't be ticket touts/scams
But there's always some stupid muppet prepared to pay over the odds which creates the problem which most sensible fans have to suffer.

If the artists weren't greedy e.g. Ed Sheeran charging £77 a ticket, and therefore collecting over half a million for a 2 hour performance and put on loads of dates, there would be no need for ticket touts as enough would be available,
1 Like #6
Chiptivo
If it was for Jamiroquai Manchester. Please let me know and I will send you my viagogo link. :p
It was for Eddie Vedder, Pearl Jam frontman solo tour. I'm an old fart :)
#7
badger2609
Chiptivo
If it was for Jamiroquai Manchester. Please let me know and I will send you my viagogo link. :p
It was for Eddie Vedder, Pearl Jam frontman solo tour. I'm an old fart :)

Date and location. I'll pull some strings.
2 Likes #8
You need to get yourself registered for pre-sales. It's then always fastest finger first, and always check how long tickets remain in baskets before they get released back, for example if tickets go on sale at 9AM and say for example baskets time out after 20 minutes, if the websites crash, then keep refreshing again at 9:20 and all the tickets stuck in baskets get released back, then 9:40 etc. I have got many front row tickets for BIG concerts this way. You just need to put the time and effort in for the big shows if you want good tickets.

Edited By: robertr on Mar 10, 2017 22:03
#9
philphil61
I agree it's wrong but if people didn't pay stupid prices then there potentially wouldn't be ticket touts/scams

But there's always some stupid muppet prepared to pay over the odds which creates the problem which most sensible fans have to suffer.

True enough. I refuse to pay the ridiculous prices, but I can understand fans who are so desperate to see their favourite artists that they will pay crazy money, because they might never get the chance to see them again. I've always resisted, even when it's been one of my faves, but like you say I refuse to line the pockets of the scalpers
#10
Chiptivo
badger2609
Chiptivo
If it was for Jamiroquai Manchester. Please let me know and I will send you my viagogo link. :p
It was for Eddie Vedder, Pearl Jam frontman solo tour. I'm an old fart :)
Date and location. I'll pull some strings.
I was looking at the London Hammersmith dates, June 6th or 7th. I managed to bag some tickets to see Faith No More in Berlin a few years ago, because it was cheaper even with flights and hotel, than it was for resale prices in this country. What a weekend :)
#11
Same goes for boxing. Eddie Hearn and Match room are ruining it for the fans. Vile creature he is.
#12
badger2609
Chiptivo
badger2609
Chiptivo
If it was for Jamiroquai Manchester. Please let me know and I will send you my viagogo link. :p
It was for Eddie Vedder, Pearl Jam frontman solo tour. I'm an old fart :)
Date and location. I'll pull some strings.
I was looking at the London Hammersmith dates, June 6th or 7th. I managed to bag some tickets to see Faith No More in Berlin a few years ago, because it was cheaper even with flights and hotel, than it was for resale prices in this country. What a weekend :)

Yeah, sometime Dublin is cheap, and £10 ryan air flights. I see he is sold out in Dublin as well.
#13
robertr
You need to get yourself registered for pre-sales. It's then always fastest finger first, and always check how long tickets remain in baskets before they get released back, for example if tickets go on sale at 9AM and say for example baskets time out after 20 minutes, if the websites crash, then keep refreshing again at 9:20 and all the tickets stuck in baskets get released back, then 9:40 etc. I have got many front row tickets for BIG concerts this way. You just need to put the time and effort in for the big shows if you want good tickets.
It's a good point. There are just so many different sites with different access to different shows it's a job keeping up with them all. I've been on pre sale before, had many tabs open, phone lines on the go (in the good old days). As has been said though, when you're fighting against bots it makes it pretty tough.
I'm not moaning and thinking poor me, there are always going to be people who miss out, but my main gripe is with the secondary sites, especially those owned by the same company as the main official seller.
I've had spare tickets on the odd occasion, but I've always managed to get them to other fans when I've had friends unable to attend, because I know how tough it can be at times.
#14
Chiptivo
badger2609
Chiptivo
badger2609
Chiptivo
If it was for Jamiroquai Manchester. Please let me know and I will send you my viagogo link. :p
It was for Eddie Vedder, Pearl Jam frontman solo tour. I'm an old fart :)
Date and location. I'll pull some strings.
I was looking at the London Hammersmith dates, June 6th or 7th. I managed to bag some tickets to see Faith No More in Berlin a few years ago, because it was cheaper even with flights and hotel, than it was for resale prices in this country. What a weekend :)
Yeah, sometime Dublin is cheap, and £10 ryan air flights. I see he is sold out in Dublin as well.
Yeah, I'll admit I did have a quick look at Florence. Spent a great few days there a few years ago and there were still tickets available earlier tonight. However, I'd then be looking at a good few hundred quid and a couple of days off work. Not sure the missus would be overly happy with me.
It's nice to know I'm not the only person that finds this situation frustrating
#15
supply and demand I suppose if there's enough idiots paying then why not make a profit on it if it's that easy maybe I should go into this business.
#16
Unlimited fines coming for people caught using bots (not sure how anyone is going to get caught though)
1 Like #17
I sure stub hub which was set up to sell unwanted tickets was court using bots to buy up tickets themselves and then knock them out a double the price. And guess who owns stub hub "eBay do"
#18
What's wrong with buying stuff to re sell at a profit .. Ain't that capitalism in a nutshell ?
#20
The tickets on secondary sites were likely sold in the presale a few days before.

The reality is that tickets are generally too cheap. Ed Sheeran may well sell tickets for £77 but the market value of those tickets is higher.


Chiptivo
philphil61
I agree it's wrong but if people didn't pay stupid prices then there potentially wouldn't be ticket touts/scams
But there's always some stupid muppet prepared to pay over the odds which creates the problem which most sensible fans have to suffer.
If the artists weren't greedy e.g. Ed Sheeran charging £77 a ticket, and therefore collecting over half a million for a 2 hour performance and put on loads of dates, there would be no need for ticket touts as enough would be available,

Ticket touts wouldn't exist if that £77 ticket was sold closer to its actual market value. Fact is that there's limited venues, seats and dates.
#21
larrylightweight
I sure stub hub which was set up to sell unwanted tickets was court using bots to buy up tickets themselves and then knock them out a double the price. And guess who owns stub hub "eBay do"
Ticketmaster was selling the tickets yesterday, and whose ad pops up, Get Me In ( A Ticketmaster Company) charging 3x plus the face value......
#22
Supply and demand has always been an issue, and most of the fans that I know accept that if you have 150,000 people applying for tickets to a 10,000 capacity venue, then there is a good chance you may end up not being able to go. However when you also factor in the fact that as well as the 150,000 that genuinely want to go, you also have hundreds of people abusing the technology available and buying thousands of tickets purely to make money and deprive the real fans. There have been musicians in the past that have refused to sell tickets through the conventional online means available because they disagree with this practice.
On an extreme tangent, you are unable to buy hundreds of seats on a flight without giving all your personal details. Maybe this is the only way this will ever be able to be controlled. As someone has stated above, having individual id on every ticket sold, and having to produce id at the venue. A logistical nightmare I'd imagine. People that couldn't genuinely attend could then return tickets to the venue for a refund and the ticket could be resold through official means......
#23
plodging
What's wrong with buying stuff to re sell at a profit .. Ain't that capitalism in a nutshell ?
More than capitalism, it is those who have the technology plus the analytics (yes, those apps that you install) to snap up the tickets.
2 Likes #24
wow - £120 a ticket - I like Pearl Jam but .....
#25
badger2609
Supply and demand has always been an issue, and most of the fans that I know accept that if you have 150,000 people applying for tickets to a 10,000 capacity venue, then there is a good chance you may end up not being able to go. However when you also factor in the fact that as well as the 150,000 that genuinely want to go, you also have hundreds of people abusing the technology available and buying thousands of tickets purely to make money and deprive the real fans. There have been musicians in the past that have refused to sell tickets through the conventional online means available because they disagree with this practice.
On an extreme tangent, you are unable to buy hundreds of seats on a flight without giving all your personal details. Maybe this is the only way this will ever be able to be controlled. As someone has stated above, having individual id on every ticket sold, and having to produce id at the venue. A logistical nightmare I'd imagine. People that couldn't genuinely attend could then return tickets to the venue for a refund and the ticket could be resold through official means......

Airline tickets aren't all the same price though. They are priced based on the demand for that flight's seats. Eventually concert tickets will be sold like this.

At the end of the day, there's no reason people shouldn't be able to resell a ticket if they can't attend. Bots need stopping though.
#26
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
badger2609
Supply and demand has always been an issue, and most of the fans that I know accept that if you have 150,000 people applying for tickets to a 10,000 capacity venue, then there is a good chance you may end up not being able to go. However when you also factor in the fact that as well as the 150,000 that genuinely want to go, you also have hundreds of people abusing the technology available and buying thousands of tickets purely to make money and deprive the real fans. There have been musicians in the past that have refused to sell tickets through the conventional online means available because they disagree with this practice.
On an extreme tangent, you are unable to buy hundreds of seats on a flight without giving all your personal details. Maybe this is the only way this will ever be able to be controlled. As someone has stated above, having individual id on every ticket sold, and having to produce id at the venue. A logistical nightmare I'd imagine. People that couldn't genuinely attend could then return tickets to the venue for a refund and the ticket could be resold through official means......
Airline tickets aren't all the same price though. They are priced based on the demand for that flight's seats. Eventually concert tickets will be sold like this.
At the end of the day, there's no reason people shouldn't be able to resell a ticket if they can't attend. Bots need stopping though.
As I said it was an extreme example. But a lot of gigs also have tiers of pricing for different seats/standing options ie close to stage, restricted view etc. I completely agree that people should be allowed to sell the ticket if they can't attend, but the majority of these tickets aren't being bought by fans, they are being bought by those with no intention to go, merely to sell at a vastly inflated profit margin, and bought by manipulating the technology available.
1 Like #27
joesmum
wow - £120 a ticket - I like Pearl Jam but .....

I was quite shocked at the starting prices on the official sites from about £61 (fees inc) up to over £100. Pearl Jam have always tried to keep their prices low throughout the years, and I've rarely paid over £35. The last few times I've seen them tickets have been priced around £45ish, but I thought seeing as I don't go to many gigs nowadays £60 is fine.
It'll be a different type of gig I'd imagine with lots of seating, and a more chilled atmosphere. (Although I still feel I'm not that old yet that I need to sit at a gig :) )
#28
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
badger2609
Supply and demand has always been an issue, and most of the fans that I know accept that if you have 150,000 people applying for tickets to a 10,000 capacity venue, then there is a good chance you may end up not being able to go. However when you also factor in the fact that as well as the 150,000 that genuinely want to go, you also have hundreds of people abusing the technology available and buying thousands of tickets purely to make money and deprive the real fans. There have been musicians in the past that have refused to sell tickets through the conventional online means available because they disagree with this practice.
On an extreme tangent, you are unable to buy hundreds of seats on a flight without giving all your personal details. Maybe this is the only way this will ever be able to be controlled. As someone has stated above, having individual id on every ticket sold, and having to produce id at the venue. A logistical nightmare I'd imagine. People that couldn't genuinely attend could then return tickets to the venue for a refund and the ticket could be resold through official means......
Airline tickets aren't all the same price though. They are priced based on the demand for that flight's seats. Eventually concert tickets will be sold like this.
At the end of the day, there's no reason people shouldn't be able to resell a ticket if they can't attend. Bots need stopping though.

Welcome back.
#29
badger2609
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
badger2609
Supply and demand has always been an issue, and most of the fans that I know accept that if you have 150,000 people applying for tickets to a 10,000 capacity venue, then there is a good chance you may end up not being able to go. However when you also factor in the fact that as well as the 150,000 that genuinely want to go, you also have hundreds of people abusing the technology available and buying thousands of tickets purely to make money and deprive the real fans. There have been musicians in the past that have refused to sell tickets through the conventional online means available because they disagree with this practice.
On an extreme tangent, you are unable to buy hundreds of seats on a flight without giving all your personal details. Maybe this is the only way this will ever be able to be controlled. As someone has stated above, having individual id on every ticket sold, and having to produce id at the venue. A logistical nightmare I'd imagine. People that couldn't genuinely attend could then return tickets to the venue for a refund and the ticket could be resold through official means......
Airline tickets aren't all the same price though. They are priced based on the demand for that flight's seats. Eventually concert tickets will be sold like this.
At the end of the day, there's no reason people shouldn't be able to resell a ticket if they can't attend. Bots need stopping though.
As I said it was an extreme example. But a lot of gigs also have tiers of pricing for different seats/standing options ie close to stage, restricted view etc. I completely agree that people should be allowed to sell the ticket if they can't attend, but the majority of these tickets aren't being bought by fans, they are being bought by those with no intention to go, merely to sell at a vastly inflated profit margin, and bought by manipulating the technology available.

I agree that bots are an issue for the industry and the recent action should reduce their impact, but you'll still get people who buy two tickets for themselves and two to sell and that's because the tickets are priced too low in a lot of cases.

You're also right about tiered pricing and premium tickets but this needs to be expanded. Ideally you'd have each ticket priced according to demand, almost in an auction scenario so that they were sold for their real value and there would be no profit margin for a tout to exploit.
#30
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
badger2609
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
badger2609
Supply and demand has always been an issue, and most of the fans that I know accept that if you have 150,000 people applying for tickets to a 10,000 capacity venue, then there is a good chance you may end up not being able to go. However when you also factor in the fact that as well as the 150,000 that genuinely want to go, you also have hundreds of people abusing the technology available and buying thousands of tickets purely to make money and deprive the real fans. There have been musicians in the past that have refused to sell tickets through the conventional online means available because they disagree with this practice.
On an extreme tangent, you are unable to buy hundreds of seats on a flight without giving all your personal details. Maybe this is the only way this will ever be able to be controlled. As someone has stated above, having individual id on every ticket sold, and having to produce id at the venue. A logistical nightmare I'd imagine. People that couldn't genuinely attend could then return tickets to the venue for a refund and the ticket could be resold through official means......
Airline tickets aren't all the same price though. They are priced based on the demand for that flight's seats. Eventually concert tickets will be sold like this.
At the end of the day, there's no reason people shouldn't be able to resell a ticket if they can't attend. Bots need stopping though.
As I said it was an extreme example. But a lot of gigs also have tiers of pricing for different seats/standing options ie close to stage, restricted view etc. I completely agree that people should be allowed to sell the ticket if they can't attend, but the majority of these tickets aren't being bought by fans, they are being bought by those with no intention to go, merely to sell at a vastly inflated profit margin, and bought by manipulating the technology available.
I agree that bots are an issue for the industry and the recent action should reduce their impact, but you'll still get people who buy two tickets for themselves and two to sell and that's because the tickets are priced too low in a lot of cases.
You're also right about tiered pricing and premium tickets but this needs to be expanded. Ideally you'd have each ticket priced according to demand, almost in an auction scenario so that they were sold for their real value and there would be no profit margin for a tout to exploit.
You make some good points there. I'd imagine there will always be some who buy for themselves and for profit, so maybe the quantity available to each purchaser needs to be reduced to 2 tickets max per order?!

I'm not sure about tickets being priced too low. I've been to gigs where I'd have happily paid more for the experience, but also where I've felt I've been short changed. I've been to over 500 gigs throughout the years and some have left such an impression on me, that I'll never forget them. Biffy Clyro's debut filling a small tent at Reading, amazed at the crowd singing their songs back at them, Bjork at the Union Chapel, Metallica playing to 67,000 at Milton Keynes Bowl, Pink Floyd, the list goes on.

I've been lucky enough to experience days like these because they have been affordable. I think the worry of an auction style process for me is that these opportunities will be limited only to those with a higher income. There is also the thought that those that are willing to pay high prices, will always be willing to pay a bit more, possibly reducing the amounts that touts can make, but still leaving a margin
1 Like #31
Why not split the tickets sales.
The first half go to a raffle of registrants. Who then get to buy 4 tickets at early release.
Then on release day put the rest out for general snap up?
You could even limit pre-sales to registered fans. Longest registered fans get first refusal and so on down the line.
Plenty of options that could be implemented. Though I'm sure the 1st line sellers would bump up their ticket sales fees. Still less than sucking a touts wallet.
1 Like #32
For gig tickets the artists put on more dates. Problem solved.
#33
Chiptivo
For gig tickets the artists put on more dates. Problem solved.
Which then devalues the experience in non-monetary terms.
It's not as an exclusive experience if every person possible could get a ticket. Not to mention there are back stage staff who have to do all the work for not as much cash and be away from home for longer.
While on face value more gigs is a solution, it isn't really a good one.
2 Likes #34
It wouldnt be too hard for the ticket companies to stop resellers bulk buying.
All they need to do is restrict how many tickets can be sent to a particular address (e.g max 4) and how many can be ordered using the same payment card.
That would restrict how many the resellers can get their hands on and at least try and limit them (instead of being able to buy hundreds)

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