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Grenfell tower, not just insulation should be the concern, what about the model of fridge which supposedly exploded

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Surely another serious concern should be finding out what make and .keep it fridge supposedly exploded, what about other buildings that are also home to these fridges, this could be another disaster w… Read More
POWYSWALES Avatar
1w, 12h agoPosted 1 week, 12 hours ago
Surely another serious concern should be finding out what make and .keep it fridge supposedly exploded, what about other buildings that are also home to these fridges, this could be another disaster waiting to happen. Surely the public should have this Information straight away so they can stop using them.
POWYSWALES Avatar
1w, 12h agoPosted 1 week, 12 hours ago
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(2)
6 Likes
Whether or not it was a fridge is purely speculation with no evidence at the moment as far as I know. What good would it do to name the brand and cause worry and brand damage at this time.

Even if its found the fridge did explode who is to say its a design fault that caused the explosion, it could have received damage another way, such as damaged wiring, rodent damage, being knocked and damaged whilst transporting.

Edited By: harlzter on Jun 17, 2017 18:39:
6 Likes
splender
Each flat, each level, each zone, is supposed to contain fire, no matter which cause it is with fire retardant measures. It is called Murphy's Law. But as we now know even these fire retardant measures protecting each flat, is itself subject to Murphy's Law and has gone wrong.


English is my first language. I've spoken and read it all my life, studied it in higher education and used it professionally in my long career writing clear and concise analysis for paying clients. I understand each individual word in every one of your posts but fail to comprehend the alphabeti spaghetti that masquerades as one of your comments. My bad.

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3 Likes #1
fridges can't explode.
6 Likes #2
Whether or not it was a fridge is purely speculation with no evidence at the moment as far as I know. What good would it do to name the brand and cause worry and brand damage at this time.

Even if its found the fridge did explode who is to say its a design fault that caused the explosion, it could have received damage another way, such as damaged wiring, rodent damage, being knocked and damaged whilst transporting.

Edited By: harlzter on Jun 17, 2017 18:39:
#3
Same as you....
All I read is that it suggested it was a fridge but far too early to know for sure.

Edited By: Ellie.Phant on Jun 17, 2017 16:21
1 Like #5
what was in the fridge.
2 Likes #6
This is the Daily Mail remember.
They said the day after the catastophe "it was a fridge that caused it" .... not could have been.
1 Like #7
skipperjonce
fridges can't explode.


"explode" is an overly used term, and often an exaggeration used for effect, but fridges are an electrical device containing flammable materials, and any electrical device can go bang. If the bang is followed by a rapid fire then "explode" might be an inaccurate term to use but it might not be far off what people perceive of a fire in an electrical device.
4 Likes #8
In any properly 'fire safe' building, no matter what caused the fire it would be contained within that one flat and would not spread. Unless it was a bomb or gas buildup the the building obviously wasn't fire safe. No point in blaming one appliance, the building design was at fault
2 Likes #9
Ellie.Phant
This is the Daily Mail remember.
They said the day after the catastophe "it was a fridge that caused it" .... not could have been.


the daily mail said there was a fire too, can't disbelieve everything you read?! :|
#10
japes
In any properly 'fire safe' building, no matter what caused the fire it would be contained within that one flat and would not spread. Unless it was a bomb or gas buildup the the building obviously wasn't fire safe. No point in blaming one appliance, the building design was at fault
I agree. Could've been a cigarette, a candle or any number of things. The fact is the building wasn't safe.
2 Likes #11
Basically any electrical appliance is capable of catching fire. Accumulation of dust, fluff (tumble dryers) or other external factors such as moisture ingress, physical damage etc can cause catastrophic failure resulting in fire. Its not just manufacturing defects. Fridges are full of refrigerant under pressure so its possible the fire could have caused over pressure resulting in explosion or what's more likely is the run capacitor for the compressor has exploded due to fire giving the impression of an explosion and bursting into flames.
#12
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?
#13
who knows what caused this horrible loss of life
we need to find out rather than throw idiotic comments about and stop this from EVER happening again
#14
Daily Mail is a trashy tabloid paper
1 Like #15
POWYSWALES

Surely another serious concern should be finding out what make and .keep it fridge supposedly exploded, what about other buildings that are also home to these fridges, this could be another disaster waiting to happen. Surely the public should have this Information straight away so they can stop using them.
Each flat, each level, each zone, is supposed to contain fire, no matter which cause it is with fire retardant measures. It is called Murphy's Law. But as we now know even these fire retardant measures protecting each flat, is itself subject to Murphy's Law and has gone wrong.
.
However, you may have a point in that any one living in the thousands of tower blocks tonight will live in fear.

Edited By: splender on Jun 17, 2017 17:45
2 Likes #16
mutley1
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?

I never do. Dara o'briain did a wonderful skit about this in one of his shows. Would've posted a video but given the circumstances didn't want to offend anyone. It was about how we go on holiday and unplug everything yet trust the fridge to behave
1 Like #17
People don't maintain their electrical appliances. This is especially true of social housing where nothing is replaced until it fails.

All fridges are vulnerable to fire; the thermostat gets clogged with dust and/or ice, the motor then runs continuously until it overheats. Knowing the make/model won't help.

Better would be to require that all appliances are inspected regularly (as happens to companies) but that is an expensive solution.

The most cost effective solution already exists and has a good track record for saving lives; fit smoke detectors and sprinkler systems.
#18
mutley1
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?


A few years ago I was in the building trade sub contracting to a large insurance company, there was no common appliance that caused fires, it really could be any electrical item.
anyone remember this,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWyydW7clw
I remember everything being unplugged when I was a kid.
#19
shadey12
mutley1
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?
A few years ago I was in the building trade sub contracting to a large insurance company, there was no common appliance that caused fires, it really could be any electrical item.
anyone remember this,https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWyydW7clw
I remember everything being unplugged when I was a kid.
Oh my word there's a blast from the past! Reminds me of the shake and vac advert. I remember when you unplugged the telly in a thunderstorm. Did that ever electrocute anyone? I think it is too early for recriminations. Something has gone horribly wrong and many people have paid with their lives. I'm not sure now is the time to accusing and blaming. We need all the facts before we start casting stones.
2 Likes #20
im horrified at the great loss of life at grenfell tower, deeply saddened.
Before we all jump at conclusions we should be sure of all the facts.
The fire can be started in numerous ways, electrical faults, cigarettes, candles, faulty appliances, it can be anything. Lets find out the facts first before speculating about causes, number of deaths etc. Misinformation is worse than no information.
There has been a number of high profile around the world in recent years including some in the UAE involving new skyscrapers.
Fires should not be allowed to spread like this, fires should be contained in individual units with passive systems eg fire doors and active systems such as smoke alarms and sprinkler systems.
Not having sprinklers in high rise residential buildings is madness, some are so tall that they are beyond reach of fire apparatus.
Buildings should be designed with means of escape, escape routes, emergency lighting etc.
For a fire to spread like this there is something seriously wrong, most of the blame points to the cladding as in the UAE fires but we must wait for the official report. If the cladding wasnt to blame and the design of the building is ok then we have to look at the worksmanship of the recent building works. High rise buildings share service ducts, where pipes, ducts join other dwellings both vertically and horizontally they need to be fire proofed, it is often these spaces where fire spread easiest, if this is a contributing factor then builders/ inspectors should face prosecution.
#21
psychobitchfromhell
shadey12
mutley1
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?
A few years ago I was in the building trade sub contracting to a large insurance company, there was no common appliance that caused fires, it really could be any electrical item.
anyone remember this,https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWyydW7clw
I remember everything being unplugged when I was a kid.
Oh my word there's a blast from the past! Reminds me of the shake and vac advert. I remember when you unplugged the telly in a thunderstorm. Did that ever electrocute anyone? I think it is too early for recriminations. Something has gone horribly wrong and many people have paid with their lives. I'm not sure now is the time to accusing and blaming. We need all the facts before we start casting stones.


I think the main problem was lightening hittng the Ariel on the roof.
my dad once lost a TV, video, sky box, dvd and answer phone after a lightening storm, we could only blame lightening as they were all plugged onto the same extension and nothing else in the house was affected, so we ruled out a power surge.
I agree, way too early for blaming anyone or making it political.
I was merely pointing out all electrical items have potential, remember how bad chip pans were after the pub back in the day.
#22
shadey12
mutley1
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?
A few years ago I was in the building trade sub contracting to a large insurance company, there was no common appliance that caused fires, it really could be any electrical item.
anyone remember this,https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWyydW7clw
I remember everything being unplugged when I was a kid.

the one thing i try not to plug in when i am asleep is my mobile phone as i have heard they do tend to go up in flames more than any other electrical appliances! i have seen a few light fittings melt on their own and that could have certainly started a fire. this is why every home needs a smoke alarm.
#23
The fire started on the 2nd level of the block. Which was mostly communal.
#24
blahblah678
The fire started on the 2nd level of the block. Which was mostly communal.
I've heard reports it started on the fourth, seventh and eleventh floors. I think we should wait for the definitive answer before we draw conclusions
#25
mutley1
shadey12
mutley1
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?
A few years ago I was in the building trade sub contracting to a large insurance company, there was no common appliance that caused fires, it really could be any electrical item.
anyone remember this,https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWyydW7clw
I remember everything being unplugged when I was a kid.

the one thing i try not to plug in when i am asleep is my mobile phone as i have heard they do tend to go up in flames more than any other electrical appliances! i have seen a few light fittings melt on their own and that could have certainly started a fire. this is why every home needs a smoke alarm.


I suppose the fact that nearly 100% of us have one or more, statistically they are going to be a few problems with the them.
6 Likes #26
splender
Each flat, each level, each zone, is supposed to contain fire, no matter which cause it is with fire retardant measures. It is called Murphy's Law. But as we now know even these fire retardant measures protecting each flat, is itself subject to Murphy's Law and has gone wrong.


English is my first language. I've spoken and read it all my life, studied it in higher education and used it professionally in my long career writing clear and concise analysis for paying clients. I understand each individual word in every one of your posts but fail to comprehend the alphabeti spaghetti that masquerades as one of your comments. My bad.
2 Likes #27
ceres
splender
Each flat, each level, each zone, is supposed to contain fire, no matter which cause it is with fire retardant measures. It is called Murphy's Law. But as we now know even these fire retardant measures protecting each flat, is itself subject to Murphy's Law and has gone wrong.

English is my first language. I've spoken and read it all my life, studied it in higher education and used it professionally in my long career writing clear and concise analysis for paying clients. I understand each individual word in every one of your posts but fail to comprehend the alphabeti spaghetti that masquerades as one of your comments. My bad.


you may also realise you're not alone.
1 Like #28
ceres
splender
Each flat, each level, each zone, is supposed to contain fire, no matter which cause it is with fire retardant measures. It is called Murphy's Law. But as we now know even these fire retardant measures protecting each flat, is itself subject to Murphy's Law and has gone wrong.
English is my first language. I've spoken and read it all my life, studied it in higher education and used it professionally in my long career writing clear and concise analysis for paying clients. I understand each individual word in every one of your posts but fail to comprehend the alphabeti spaghetti that masquerades as one of your comments. My bad.
Me too, but it is good to lower expectation, cause it makes ya feel superior, which you do, you are not paying for free advice anyway here.


Edited By: splender on Jun 17, 2017 20:14: added
#29
Residents were complaining about power surges that weren't investigated. If something did happen to the fridge that May not have helped, or been in normal operating conditions.
#30
POWYSWALES

Surely another serious concern should be finding out what make and .keep it fridge supposedly exploded, what about other buildings that are also home to these fridges, this could be another disaster waiting to happen. Surely the public should have this Information straight away so they can stop using them.

There is already plenty of information about what makes and types of appliance are most likely to catch fire. eg:-

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2015/06/which-reveals-the-home-appliances-most-likely-to-catch-fire-406053/

The big issue is that the fire spread rapidly in a building that was designed to contain fires to individual flats, reportedly due to the insulation/cladding, resulting in such a terrible loss of life.


If you are worried if your fridge or freezer might be a fire hazard, check the back is made from metal, and not plastic or exposed foam insulation. If an electrical fault causes it to catch fire and the back is metal it should contain the fire and prevent it spreading to the fridge's combustible insulation, which would produce thick acrid black smoke, toxic fumes and a lot of heat if it were to ignite.



Edited By: melted on Jun 17, 2017 20:36: added
#31
shadey12
mutley1
shadey12
mutley1
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?
A few years ago I was in the building trade sub contracting to a large insurance company, there was no common appliance that caused fires, it really could be any electrical item.
anyone remember this,https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWyydW7clw
I remember everything being unplugged when I was a kid.
the one thing i try not to plug in when i am asleep is my mobile phone as i have heard they do tend to go up in flames more than any other electrical appliances! i have seen a few light fittings melt on their own and that could have certainly started a fire. this is why every home needs a smoke alarm.
I suppose the fact that nearly 100% of us have one or more, statistically they are going to be a few problems with the them.

it is the battery in them that catches fire as they are still early in their evolution cycle and is always being increased in capacity with new technology. i have plugged my ipad in when i am asleep as i have not heard of ipad exploding, but then i don't watch the news so i may very well be mistaken here.
#32
mutley1
shadey12
mutley1
shadey12
mutley1
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?
A few years ago I was in the building trade sub contracting to a large insurance company, there was no common appliance that caused fires, it really could be any electrical item.
anyone remember this,https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWyydW7clw
I remember everything being unplugged when I was a kid.
the one thing i try not to plug in when i am asleep is my mobile phone as i have heard they do tend to go up in flames more than any other electrical appliances! i have seen a few light fittings melt on their own and that could have certainly started a fire. this is why every home needs a smoke alarm.
I suppose the fact that nearly 100% of us have one or more, statistically they are going to be a few problems with the them.

it is the battery in them that catches fire as they are still early in their evolution cycle and is always being increased in capacity with new technology. i have plugged my ipad in when i am asleep as i have not heard of ipad exploding, but then i don't watch the news so i may very well be mistaken here.


chargers and phones are likely to be abused, purely on the volume of them in circulation there will be a few cases involving them.
that will most probably be highly publicised if it is an apple or Samsung (or any other well known brand) product.
#33
I heard that the chap who owned the fridge was busy packing his suitcase instead of tackling the fire. Presumably he had access to a tap.
3 Likes #34
I don't think it is right to speculate too much about the cause of the fire. Nobody knows, and the fire investigators will painstakingly and rightly follow the investigation through so the truth is eventually known. It strikes me that there are efforts afoot to generate conversations about the cause of the fire to distract from the really key issue about the tragedy - that a tower block that was designed to contain a fire to individual apartments, or floors, for hours, became entirely ablaze within tens of minutes. This is, I think, entirely a valid thing to discuss because it became an issue back in 2009 and large amounts of people still live in blocks that were refurbished the same as Lakanal, and now Grenfell. Their lives, it would appear, are at daily risk and we can not allow the same sort of fudging go on that has followed the Lakanal tragedy. We need rapid action to make those people safe. Yes dangerous appliances, like Whirlpool tumble dryers, are a terrible scandal, but highly flammable blocks of flats are, at least, an order of magnitude more serious.
#35
radium
I heard that the chap who owned the fridge was busy packing his suitcase instead of tackling the fire. Presumably he had access to a tap.


I think that's in really bad taste. I'm sure whoever's flat the fire started in is going to have long sleepless nights going through what if situations. what if I'd had a fire extinguisher, what if I'd reacted earlier etc. can you imagine the mental anguish knowing that the fire which started in your flat caused such devastation and at the worst was the cause of so many deaths. that person is going to have a massive weight hanging over them for the rest of their life. they'll never be able to look the other residents in the eye and will feel personally responsible even if they weren't.
1 Like #36
adhkarzf
radium
I heard that the chap who owned the fridge was busy packing his suitcase instead of tackling the fire. Presumably he had access to a tap.
I think that's in really bad taste. I'm sure whoever's flat the fire started in is going to have long sleepless nights going through what if situations. what if I'd had a fire extinguisher, what if I'd reacted earlier etc. can you imagine the mental anguish knowing that the fire which started in your flat caused such devastation and at the worst was the cause of so many deaths. that person is going to have a massive weight hanging over them for the rest of their life. they'll never be able to look the other residents in the eye and will feel personally responsible even if they weren't.

Well, not being heavy on you, but considering it is absolutely unproven that it even happened, and considering the claim is highly emotive and inflammatory, you shouldn't even qualify the claim by responding to the repeating of it. The truth will come out in due process.
#37
adhkarzf
radium
I heard that the chap who owned the fridge was busy packing his suitcase instead of tackling the fire. Presumably he had access to a tap.


I think that's in really bad taste. I'm sure whoever's flat the fire started in is going to have long sleepless nights going through what if situations. what if I'd had a fire extinguisher, what if I'd reacted earlier etc. can you imagine the mental anguish knowing that the fire which started in your flat caused such devastation and at the worst was the cause of so many deaths. that person is going to have a massive weight hanging over them for the rest of their life. they'll never be able to look the other residents in the eye and will feel personally responsible even if they weren't.


It's wasn't meant to be in bad taste. We, all of us, have a responsibility towards our neighbours. If there is anything on our property that threatens the neighbours then we have a duty to deal with it. I have in my student days put out a fire in a neighbouring property. The fire was started by some kids who then called the fire brigade for a laugh. I put the fire out with jug fulls of water because I could only find a jug. And this was a big fire. They had lit the sofa.

Whilst it's true that no one yet knows what really happened a lady resident has stated that the fire started in her neighbours kitchen.
1 Like #38
shadey12
mutley1
shadey12
mutley1
shadey12
mutley1
a colleague's TV started to go up in flames all by itself one evening. Luckily he was still awake when it happened! This is why you are supposed to disconnect all electrical appliances when you go on holiday except those that need to be plugged in, but how many of us do this?
A few years ago I was in the building trade sub contracting to a large insurance company, there was no common appliance that caused fires, it really could be any electrical item.
anyone remember this,https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYWyydW7clw
I remember everything being unplugged when I was a kid.
the one thing i try not to plug in when i am asleep is my mobile phone as i have heard they do tend to go up in flames more than any other electrical appliances! i have seen a few light fittings melt on their own and that could have certainly started a fire. this is why every home needs a smoke alarm.
I suppose the fact that nearly 100% of us have one or more, statistically they are going to be a few problems with the them.
it is the battery in them that catches fire as they are still early in their evolution cycle and is always being increased in capacity with new technology. i have plugged my ipad in when i am asleep as i have not heard of ipad exploding, but then i don't watch the news so i may very well be mistaken here.
chargers and phones are likely to be abused, purely on the volume of them in circulation there will be a few cases involving them.
that will most probably be highly publicised if it is an apple or Samsung (or any other well known brand) product.

cheap chinese chargers available for next to nothing on ebay will no doubt contribute a good percentage of phone fires.
#39
I claim to be NO expert!
But at nearly 41 years old I've never heard of a fridge exploding or catching fire!
When faulty, They almost always stop getting cold anymore and then you know to replace them.
They work by pumping a type of gas (freon I think?) around that absorbs the heat inside the interior and moves to the radiator at the back of the fridge.
It's usually always the pump or thermostat that fails rendering the fridge useless and more importantly safe!.
Theirs more to this I think to come to light, had the tenant messed with the appliance?
Something doesn't add up or he just claims it's the fridge when it is something else the started the blaze, Fire investigators will hopefully identify the exact cause eventually.

I used to live in a 22 story tower block myself and this story had horrified me!
Why were their no sprinklers! Lookily ours had them, and a fire extinguisher on every floor near the lifts.
We also had 2 staircases and their were permanent hose reels that fire service could use!

Sadly Blackpool council has now demolished these perfectly good and fire safe tower blocks, to build houses.
#40
Poster actually has a valid point! Were it a plane went down because a fridge exploded on it, or was suspected of being responsible, all planned with those fridges would be grounded until they were checked.

However, another thing to consider is that the block of flats were refurbished, including a communal central heating system. If this was a forced air ventilation system, then this destroys the integrity of the containment system.

Whatever the cause, the authorities need to expedite the investigation.

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