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Headsup - Fuel Blockades on Wed

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Thought I'd share this with you guys.... http://www.petrolprices.com/blog/petrol-price-protests-planned-for-this-wednesday-86.html Read More
ChrisUK Avatar
9y, 4m agoPosted 9 years, 4 months ago
ChrisUK Avatar
9y, 4m agoPosted 9 years, 4 months ago
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#1
At what price would you change your habits towards buying fuel?

ie I think if it reached £2 a litre then I would consider driving the short route rather than the quick route.

At £2.50 I would probably consider whether long distance travel was necessary, ie visit Sister 150 miles away.

At £3 I would probably consider switching to public transport for alot of journeys.

Maybe someone could add a poll if it's easy?
#2
The governement have you by the [email protected], as they know you need fuel to get to work !!

I can't get public transport to work (even if I could, I wouldn't) - it's a mess & I'm glad some people are standing up to make them notice !
[admin]#3
It's ****!!!!
You have to go to work to earn money to pay for the car you go to work in...
#4
*Waits for Fuel Prices to rocket as people rush out to avoid the blockades*
#5
Thanks for this Chris. Site now updated:-

UPDATE: This morning (10/12/07) Transaction 2007 announced a firm date for the protest. Protests will start Saturday 15th December 2007 at 10:00am. They say the date was decided by members as "the best possible to enable those who would normally be working during the week to attend." According to a press release on the site, they plan to protest outside refineries or storage depots across the country.
#6
Its about time really, I really cant believe the current price of petrol, its pretty much £1.05 per litre everywhere.

I really hope something is done about this. The government continuously takes as much money as they can from us. I'm a new home owner, I've recently forked out for Stamp Duty etc etc etc, I seriously doubt I will be living in this country for the rest of my life.
#7
Well, you have to blame those who voted for this government since 1997. The Government promise what the people want so they will vote for them but the people forget someone has got to pay for it, which is why fuel taxation as well as other forms of taxation are so high.

The trouble is, you won't get elected if you say spending is going to be cut in order that taxes can be reduced so we're pretty much stuffed and all those idiots protesting are just wasting their time.:whistling:
banned#8
I have to agree its about time something was done, I only realised earlier its gone up to £1.04 a litre in my area. I have a 75 mile round trip to commute to university and in my final year this is really starting to put the pressure on my finances.

Perhaps its time for MP's to cut back on their expenses....:roll:
#9
chezza262
I have to agree its about time something was done, I only realised earlier its gone up to £1.04 a litre in my area. I have a 75 mile round trip to commute to university and in my final year this is really starting to put the pressure on my finances.

Perhaps its time for MP's to cut back on their expenses....:roll:


And what's that gonna reduce taxes by then?

What about taxing students extra to pay for the full cost of their education:p
banned#10
cheapskate58
Well, you have to blame those who voted for this government since 1997. The Government promise what the people want so they will vote for them but the people forget someone has got to pay for it, which is why fuel taxation as well as other forms of taxation are so high.


Its what governments do. Doesnt matter if its red or blue.
#11
guv
Its what governments do. Doesnt matter if its red or blue.


Err... no. It's a leftish government that promised to spend on everything and anything and people have voted for them on that basis. Now many of the same people moan that taxes are too high:p

But the money has been spent and further spending has been committed until someone calls a halt. Yet no-one is gonna be elected with a commitment to slash Government spending so it's inevitable that we are going to be taxed more and more.

Fuel protests are a waste of time and whoever voted Labour in the last three elections have only themselves to blame:x

The rest of us are slowly leaving the country as soon as we can:thumbsup:
#12
chezza262
I have to agree its about time something was done, I only realised earlier its gone up to £1.04 a litre in my area.


I've watched the price of diesel rise by a penny a ltr every four days like clockwork for the past 5 or 6 weeks. It's 109.9 at my local now :x
Unless we take a stand now, we will be living in an economic wasteland. Haulage companies will go out of business, food and heating prices will rise. Public transport prices will rise, like they are not already a rip-off.
We'll all be in knee deep in recession. It has to stop, now.
1 Like #13
But don't forget there are larger vehicles on the road than ever before plus more people can afford to use them than ever before. Great amounts of Crude are bing used in so many items people take for granted like CD's, computers, bottles etc. Crude oil is a natural resource that will run out, and I can almost see the beginning of the end.

Forget greedy govt taxes, there's more than meets the eye.
#14
It's a dirty fuel that we should be made to think twice about using, how so they do that? Put the prices up. It's still cheaper than using public transport and until it becomes alot more expensive people will continue using it. Fair enough companies that use lorrys alot are going to suffer but more needs to be done to slow down our use and force us to use more environmentally friendly solutions.
#15
The government don't really want us to be more environmentally friendly, they just use that as their excuse to increase taxes. If they were really concerned about the environmental issue they would really push manufacturers to use the technology they already have to produce cheaper vehicles with much better fuel economy.
#16
The 70mpg compustion engine has been a reality for donkey's years. Wireless energy too. New tech has, for a long time, been purchased and deliberately shelved by the oil companies, in the interest of sustaining their massive profit levels. It's a bloody disgrace.
#17
cheapskate58
Err... no. It's a leftish government that promised to spend on everything and anything and people have voted for them on that basis. Now many of the same people moan that taxes are too high:p

But the money has been spent and further spending has been committed until someone calls a halt. Yet no-one is gonna be elected with a commitment to slash Government spending so it's inevitable that we are going to be taxed more and more.

Fuel protests are a waste of time and whoever voted Labour in the last three elections have only themselves to blame:x

The rest of us are slowly leaving the country as soon as we can:thumbsup:


what twaddle I lived abroad in several countries for 25 years then returned here .
Leftist government as much as Maggie thatchers was.
Okay less tax. pay for your own health care. See how much you pay if someone in your family has a serious illness. Your health insurance only pays to a certain limit.
Pay for your child's education out of your own pocket and find out how much a good education costs and heaven forbid you should loose your job and cannot get employment, because you will be using your savings to exist.
I could go on all countries tax certain things to much and it does not matter who is in government they will all do the same.
Save money fire all the MP`s ,Euro MP`s and councillors along with the Scots ,welsh and Irish assemblies then you would save money
#18
Scribbles
The 70mpg compustion engine has been a reality for donkey's years.

Yes it was. And no one bought it as cars with such engine were awfully expensive for what they were (take Lupo 3L for example). Even today much acclaimed Polo Bluemotion cost in excess of 12K and got nothing, not even the aircon. And if you add aircon to it, then it gets the same mpg and CO2 as normal Polo, so what's the point?
Don't forget that auto industry is there for profit (as any other industry in fact) and not to make life better.
Even now there is no clear roadmap in auto world on what to do next. Is it hybrid? As a middle-of-the-road solution - yes. Is it hydrogen? Doubtful, as infrastructure isn't there and probably never will be, despite BMW and Honda's efforts. Is it biofuel - probably, but again, this is not a solution but rather mean to get more time for development. I personally think that the only way for automotive industry is to go electric but this will require a lot of newly built nuclear powerstations. Also, the situation with batteries isn't quite clear as LiIon aren't stable enough for cars and NiMH aren't that powerful.
Take a look at Autobloggreen - you'll see why there is no magical solution.

Wireless energy too.

What's that? A solar technology? At the current technology state it is not viable for this country. It works pretty well in Middle East (sunny climate) but not here.

New tech has, for a long time, been purchased and deliberately shelved by the oil companies, in the interest of sustaining their massive profit levels.

It is an urban myth, similar to that mythical carburetor, which allowed 20-ton truck to go US cross-country on 1 gallon of petrol.
#19
They mean wireless energy as in sending electricity through the air I believe. Which does exist and is only just starting to go on sale.

The problem with fuel is that it is the most obvious example of people complaining either way. They'll complain because the government is taxing them to much and they'll complain if the government doesn't do something about the environment. The only way to get an electric car that's actually good is to make a demand for it
#20
Hever saw wireless power transmitter in my life. I know about microwave transmitter, which isn't quite commercial yet and light transmitter (with afwul 60% power loss). Can you enlighten me on existing commercial technology and product that can be bought today, please?
#21
found this on bbc about wireless energy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6725955.stm
#22
I saw it some time ago. However, this is just an experiment and far away from making first commercial product. And even if they'll commercialize it, how exactly they are going to deliver, say, kilowatt from substation to your house? What if someone intercepts it? And what are the losses compared to copper? Where this energy will come from?

There are too many questions and no answers, unfortunately.
#23
tonyd19565
what twaddle I lived abroad in several countries for 25 years then returned here .
Leftist government as much as Maggie thatchers was.
Okay less tax. pay for your own health care. See how much you pay if someone in your family has a serious illness. Your health insurance only pays to a certain limit.
Pay for your child's education out of your own pocket and find out how much a good education costs and heaven forbid you should loose your job and cannot get employment, because you will be using your savings to exist.
I could go on all countries tax certain things to much and it does not matter who is in government they will all do the same.
Save money fire all the MP`s ,Euro MP`s and councillors along with the Scots ,welsh and Irish assemblies then you would save money


You're the one writing twaddle - and very badly too:p

So you've been away 25 years? Well that hardly makes you committed to the country does it? Nonetheless, you reckon Thatcher was a leftie:?

And who said that we can't have good state education and healthcare yet still have lower taxes? It's a matter of prioritising and spending wisely, not pumping billions into whatever this government thinks will buy them a few votes.

We've got over 4 million people collecting various state benefits, (being paid not to work), yet we have to attract over a million immigrants into the country to make up a shortfall in workers:?

Scheme after scheme is announced by the governement, spending cash that is raised by taxpayers plus billions spent on the wars plus the billions spent on Northern Rock, plus, plus, plus!!!

Gordon Brown has pinched money from pension funds that will never be made up and as a consequence, millions of people will have uncomfortable retirements in the future - unless you work for the Government and have a nice index-linked pension guaranteed and paid for by the taxpayer!!

And people think that the tax on fuel will come down after a few protests:whistling:
#24
This user agrees with Cheapskate!!

I wont be getting me "anorak" on (coz thats what they usually wear :giggle: ) i'll be tucked up in me bed :-D
#25
sarcasm about thatcher, if you could comprehend the statement. How you can state labour is to the left in politics with the same policies that the Tories had belies belief?
As for commitment to the country I never stated I had any you stated the intention to leave the country.
As for the war and people on benefits no matter who is in these practices will continue unless of course you wish to bring fascism to the political table.
As for migrants this country has a history of allowing migrant labour. nothing wrong if the people work for their keep.
I do agree about your views on the petrol protest.
#26
tonyd19565

As for migrants this country has a history of allowing migrant labor. nothing wrong if the people work for their keep.


There was always a status quo though, and now that its uncontrolled, its pretty much knackered a lot.
A large body of workers willing to come in and work for minimum wage, does and has dragged the wages of other citizens already here, down. Also a lot of the jobs now available are temps/ agencies etc
Not great when the price of living has went up, and houses cost a fortune. Even if you cant afford a house, it knocks onto increased rent. Theres barely any council/social housing left, and the buy-to-let market is making a fortune.

If you want a decent job, its harder now, and can involve travelling a lot farther.
Increasing fuel prices, hits the workers at the bottom level of the scale a lot harder as it limits them to public transport distance, and being totally honest public transport in this country is a joke.
Not surprisingly theres a lot of people not wanting to scrape by on low wages and would rather sit on their **** and collect benefits.

Sometimes i sit and wonder why the hell i work.
See junkies getting housed. furnished anything else they need, as well as benefits and extra money for being on "drugs rehab programmes" (yeah right, i can tell you exactly where that extra cash is going)

This government needs a swift kick to sort itself out.
Its not Leftist anymore, they steal the Tories policies any chance they get.
Country will get worse while Labour is in power (well here in Scotland we're insulated from it all a bit) but if the Tories get in, just wait for Independence to gain popular support.

On topic a bit now lol
I'd love taxes to go down on fuel, but come on.
Anyone with any sense knows its going to have no effect.
They might get a fuel duty freeze for a while, fracture support for the Blockades and keep right on with the increases when all the fuss dies down.
#27
tonyd19565
sarcasm about thatcher, if you could comprehend the statement. How you can state labour is to the left in politics with the same policies that the Tories had belies belief?
As for commitment to the country I never stated I had any you stated the intention to leave the country.
As for the war and people on benefits no matter who is in these practices will continue unless of course you wish to bring fascism to the political table.
As for migrants this country has a history of allowing migrant labour. nothing wrong if the people work for their keep.
I do agree about your views on the petrol protest.


Of course I can understand sarcasm. Unfortunately, your point gets lost when you write like a three-year-old:p
#28
do you think this one will happen? i was told it was supposed to have happened yesterday? or is this just scare mongering.?
#29
pcnutta
do you think this one will happen? i was told it was supposed to have happened yesterday? or is this just scare mongering.?


Most of its built on scare-mongering anyway.
Its the way they get the petrol stations over-run and increase demand, while trying to block as many tankers as they can at the refineries.
Its the panic buying that causes the shortages in the first place.

Probably hoping it starts itself and they dont have to do that much.
suspended#30
All this is Happening because we/you/everyone are SHEEP....Going to the Slaughter, one n all. WHY! Because everyone in UK is too Ruddy LAZY to do anything about anything...SHEER LAZY!!
The way these Hauliers are going about it is entirely the WRONG way..All that will happen is some will get arrested an have a Criminal record..

THE only way to get fuel prices down n Council tax down etc., is for EVERYONE who Drives to LEAVE their vehicles HOME for 3 Days..ONLY 3 Days n the country will be FUFFED..Trillions will be lost n The IDIOTS in Government will get the Message........Literally take Gordon Browns/Blairs Words n Catch a BUS....But Wait, they can't won't Cope...So LEAVE YOUR VEHICLES AT HOME.....You Won't win otherwise..
#31
Theres a large proportion of people with no viable Public Transport.
It would end up being a 3 day "avoid the pumps" which would be pointless as people would fill up beforehand to last the 3 days.
#32
cheapskate58
Of course I can understand sarcasm. Unfortunately, your point gets lost when you write like a three-year-old:p


As usual when you are faced with a negative answer on your point people of your ilk use insults rather than discussion!!!!!
#33
A man called Nikola Tesla invented wireless electricity at the beginning of the 20th century. The technology was promptly destroyed when the people that make the money realised that free electricity might actually become a prospect. It was covered up.
'Moores Law' only happens when there is money to be made from the progression in technology :roll:
#34
Tesla never invented "free electricity". What he did was wireless power transmission on short distances.

However, free electricity does exist - hydrostations, wind generators, etc. The problem is that apart from hydrostation, these things are either too expensive for what they are, unreliable or both.

BTW, think of simpe radio receivers (Crystal Radio - it doesn't need any additional power, even I assembled such thing :) But are these available on market now? Oh, no! This is Panasonic (Sony, RCA, whatever) conspiracy!
#35
The closest I can think of to commercial 'free' electricity is solar, and the panels cost so much money that you may as well just forget about them and use a standard mains plug :roll:
How can you call it free when the technology costs £20k to install in the average three bedroom home? You would have to be insane to pay out more for solar technology than what the equivilent amount of power would cost over the lifetime of the panels of themselves.
I do think it is a conspiracy. Progression is being deliberately surpressed by big money energy interests.

Tesla never invented "free electricity". What he did was wireless power transmission on short distances

I'll go with that, but my problem is that if the technology had been allowed to progress at the point of invention, then there could have been a transmitter every 100m on every major road for hybrid modes of transport, ala Moores Law, right now. But no, the prospect of unmetered power could not be allowed to progress as there is no money in unmetered power.
Nowadays it could be metered, but not back then. Hence the conspiracy.

The fact of the matter is that green energy can only ever be as viable as it is allowed to be. I don't see anything happening, especially when places like Maplin are charging a grand for a poxy 120w panel.
Not to mention the VAT that is charged on solar technology :x
The hypocrasy I see every day in this world astounds me :-(
The world is on the edge of climate catastrophe and all they can think of is the profit angle? FFS. Tesla's technology should have been revisited the moment we knew about climate change and carbon emissions. But it was surpressed, as there is far too much money to be made from fossil fuels.
For the record, I have cut down my fuel use by 25% by cutting out 1 from 4 trips to see my relations. I'd like to see everyone cut out 1 of 4 working days via strike action, to compensate for the higher price of fuel. The govt would take notice of that, I have absolutely NO doubt! You hit the treasury where it hurts and they take notice. Blocking the terminals makes no difference, as that fascist Blair changed the law back in 2000 to allow protesters to be dragged off by their ponytails by the police. You bring the country to a financial halt and they will shake in their boots.
#36
The closest I can think of to commercial 'free' electricity is solar, and the panels cost so much money that you may as well just forget about them and use a standard mains plug :roll:

Er... this is not quite true. The price for panels is high here, in this country but not in other places. Have you ever saw pictures of Middle Eastern cities? Every roof there got solar panel on it. A friend of mine was sent to Israel for a couple of months. He told me that complete solar water heater system there cost about 3K shekels (roughly 350 quid) and that's including solar panel, boiler and installation! Jeez, I think I need to start my business bringing their systems here. :)
However, the reason why it is cheap over there (he told me that in places like Jordan and Egypt prices are pretty much the same or even lower) is because of the climate. In this country the sky is rarely cloud-free, so technology isn't widespread, hence high prices.

Progression is being deliberately surpressed by big money energy interests.

Not really. The reason new technologies aren't popping up like mushrooms after rain is simple - most of it are too expensive. However, if you look back into history, you'll find that oil crisis of 1973 changed automotive industry significantly. Suddenly everyone wanted small-engined car which consumed less fuel, so 6 and 8-litre behemots were confined to history in Europe. And auto industry reacted quick. What does that mean? It means that technology was there but noone wanted it. Once public opinion was shifted, the industry complied.
Again, look at Lupo 3L, Audi A2, Honda Insight and Toyota Prius MkI. These cars never were sold in huge numbers despite being advances, economical and somewhat practical. Simply because premium on these cars was too high compared to benefits. Now situation has changed, so it is economically viable for auto industry to reinvent such cars. This is no conspiracy but rather economy.

I'll go with that, but my problem is that if the technology had been allowed to progress at the point of invention, then there could have been a transmitter every 100m on every major road for hybrid modes of transport, ala Moores Law, right now.

AFAIR, in 50s there were talks about "inductive motorways" - roads which would incorporate "induction panels". Such road could transmit power to electric cars, charge their batteries and once car left the road it could progress on accumulators. This idea was very big in USSR but never took off due to complexity, investment, helth concerns and, apparently, people's inequality increase. So it is not just greedy capitalists, communists decided against it too.
As to unmetered distribution, this is true. The other argument against Tesla's idea was cost of his stations vs cost of copper cable (labour was cheap then). Combine this with metering issues and it is easy why it wasn't economically viable those days. Today it is even more difficult as literally every house (in this country at least) is connected to some sort of a grid. It might do well in Africa though, if (and this is a big IF) the technology will be developed well enough to cover large distances and it'll be cheap enough to compete against wires.

The fact of the matter is that green energy can only ever be as viable as it is allowed to be.

There is no anti-green conspiracy out there :) It is economy vs wishful thinking.

Not to mention the VAT that is charged on solar technology

Agree. If this government is shouting about all things green, why they don't actually encourage people to invest in green technologies?

The world is on the edge of climate catastrophe and all they can think of is the profit angle?

I doubt there is going to be any kind of climate catastrophe. Sorry I don't trust in global warming and Al Gore (TM) preachings. Nevertheless, decreasing pollution is a good thing.

As to trips cutting... Sadly, this (or any other, in fact) government is elected on basis of "do-gooder's" things. More schools, better NHS, peace in our time, help starving, feed 3rd world, etc.
But the money should come from somebody's pocket. Yes, they can cut their spendings drastically, for example, withdraw troops from foreign operations (not just Iraq and Afganistan, but from ALL places, including UN-led operations). No more money to Africa. Quit EU and stop sending money to EUSSR. Stop distributing welfare to everyone who wants it. Etc, etc, etc.
This might be the good thing. However, as we live in ochlocracy, and not democracy, those who demand "bread and entertaiment" always win. Which means, such government will never be re-elected and those politicians who even dare to discuss these topics will be ostracized for life.

P.S. Sorry for long posting :)
#37
tonyd19565
As usual when you are faced with a negative answer on your point people of your ilk use insults rather than discussion!!!!!


Ha!

Yet you write "People of my ilk":? Now WTF is that supposed to mean? An insult if I ever saw one:p

I'll discuss anything with anyone and I'll also trade insults with anyone. However, you should at least address the pertinent issue - that fuel protests are a total waste of time because taxes cannot be reduced while Government spending is totally out of control, which it demonstrably is.

Thus these protests are irrelevant because fuel or any other taxes will not be reduced until we have a change to a Government committed to reduce expenditure - and that won't happen because it would be electoral suicide for any party that proposed it. Thus as a country, we are totally fecked - sentenced to a life of moribund cr*pness exacerbated by over-taxation and over-government:x
#38
Goes against what you first stated. You blamed it all on labour policies along with taxation and it will be no different with any other party in power.

I had tried to point out any political party would be faced with the same dilemma and politicians as a whole all feed from the same trough but instead of putting forward salient points you resorted to insults.
As to the issue you refer. I had already stated I agreed with you nothing will be done with protests but you preferred to compare my views to a three year old.
#39
It doesn't matter the protests will be met with Police and military action a demonstration of futility or fuel-tility. So its no wonder everyone is a sheep with a Goverment which works for itself not the people or country.
#40
Kommunist

P.S. Sorry for long posting :)


No problem, it was interesting reading :)

It just annoys me when someone turns around and says that they have invented something, when it turns out that it was actually invented 99 years ago :whistling:

Simply because premium on these cars was too high compared to benefits

That is the problem with green technologies as a whole. Wind power? Pah! It's only economical for the power companies to invest in a turbine, not Joe Bloggs. Because the power companies can charge a premium for the green tariffs LOL As a result, no-one chooses the green tariffs because the dirty technology is cheaper. Who wants to pay a 20% premium for green energy when fuel prices are at record highs already? It should be the other way around. Then the power companies turn around and say that no-one wants green power! Utter spin, nothing but.
I don't say for sure that climate catastrophe is something I necessarily subscribe to. But whilst it's on the table as a viable prospect, then every penny in VAT that govt takes on green technology should force them to hang their heads in shame. Green policy in the UK is an absolute shambles.

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