Help - International Ebay Buyer has just opened a paypal dispute - HotUKDeals
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Help - International Ebay Buyer has just opened a paypal dispute

robot1000 Avatar
5y, 11m agoPosted 5 years, 11 months ago
I sold a product to a Russian buyer (worth £150) on the 27/10/10 and dispatched it on the 29/10/10 via International Signed For delivery. The buyer left positive feedback for me on the 02/11/10, so everything seemed good.

Today (09/12/10) I received an email from the buyer stating that they haven't received the item and they also opened up a dispute.

I wrote back (on paypal dispute) saying that the claim is suspicious ast the Buyer left the positive feedback which acknowledges that they're happy with the product received and that 40 days have passed and only know have they contacted me regarding the status of delivery.

I can't seem to track the product on the Russian page, so I can't prove the item was received, but it seems to me that they buyer is lying as I said before they left me feedback and also they only have 10 positive feedback.

Does anyone know how Paypal will pass judgement in this case?
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robot1000 Avatar
5y, 11m agoPosted 5 years, 11 months ago
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#1
Try http://www.track-trace.com/post if you still have the tracking number

--
Are all International Signed For™ items electronically tracked when they are delivered?

We track all International Signed For™ items until they leave the UK and then the item is handed over to the destination country's postal service as a priority item. However, we can’t track your International Signed For™ item all the way to delivery in every instance.


Edited By: biomehanik on Dec 09, 2010 10:44
banned#2
if you can prove delivery you will win
if not, you will lose
#3
colinsunderland
if you can prove delivery you will win
if not, you will lose


I've spoken to Royal who've informed me it can take up to 3 months to get proof of delivery, whilst Paypal are giving me around 3 weeks
#4
Paypal side with the buyer unless you can prove delivery was made.
Did you ensure the item was to be signed for upon delivery ?
#5
Seeing as the buyer left me positive feedback would that not work against them?
#6
lufc246
Paypal side with the buyer unless you can prove delivery was made.
Did you ensure the item was to be signed for upon delivery ?


I sent it via Signed for international delivery

As I just mentioned it can take up to 3 months for proof to be received
#7
robot1000
Seeing as the buyer left me positive feedback would that not work against them?


They will say feedback was left in error
banned#8
robot1000
Seeing as the buyer left me positive feedback would that not work against them?

no, cos they'll say that was a mistake and left for wrong seller

I take it you sent it via Internation RMSD?

Does that get a signature in Russia as a lot of countries do not? If not, then paypal will refund buyer.

tbh, I wouldnt dream of sending anything to russia.

Edited By: csiman on Dec 09, 2010 10:59
#9
colinsunderland
if you can prove delivery you will winif not, you will lose

Yep,this ^^^

I don't send anything of value overseas,it's not worth the potential hassle.
#10
the sam thing happend to me but thank fully a much smaller amount (£5.99) the buyer bought & left positive feedback indicating he had recieved it but then opend a disputesaying he had not recieved it took a while but in the end i got my money back, but then it happend again!! diffrent buyer same senario but this time he said he was a victim of fraud & said someone fraudently bought something from me for £5.99 then left me positive feedback! i mean why would a fraudster take the time to leave feedback?? bearring in mind this guy had been a member for a long time but no transactions at all, but anyways this time paypal never gave me my money back & believed this guy. if you have your proof of reciept you will defo get your money from royal mail if worst come to worst as long as you sent it via the correct insured amount, if not you may get less the amount you sold it for, good luck
banned#11
was it a mobile phone?
#12
csiman
was it a mobile phone?


yeh
#13
It also seems strange that the buyer is opening the dispute 40 days after purchasing it

Why did they not contact me earlier to enquiry as to where it is??
#14
common scam, I had someone do it to me in poland.

Eventually I did win, of course no action was taken against the bogus claimaint
#15
MinstrelMan
common scam, I had someone do it to me in poland.

Eventually I did win, of course no action was taken against the bogus claimaint


How did you win?
#16
This is what they claimed and also what I responded:


I bought the item, paid on Oct-26-10 via PayPal, but haven't received it yet.

I opened dispute on PayPal because after 45 days later it can not be opened.

I hope the item will came to me on this week, and I will close dispute.



Hi

I sent this item via International Signed For with Tracking Number: ##############

This claim seems very suspicious as on the 1st November you left me positive feedback . This was 4 days after I sent it and according to the Royal Mail website delivery take "three working days to Western Europe, four working days to Eastern Europe". Leaving positive feedback acknowledges that the buyer is happy with the product and would only leave that positive feedback when the item is received.

Furthermore 41 days have passed since sending the item and not once within that timeframe have you contacted me asking where the product is, knowing full well that I sent the item via Overseas delivery which again according to royal mail is usually delivered with 4 days.

Robert
banned#17
robot1000
csiman
was it a mobile phone?


yeh

max compensation for a mobile is £41 even with RMSD I;m afraid
#18
robot1000
MinstrelMan
common scam, I had someone do it to me in poland.Eventually I did win, of course no action was taken against the bogus claimaint
How did you win?

Pointed out seller feedback of using same scam in the past back in the days. (I wrongly assumed all was well with the instant payment, I would withdraw monies before sending and would be covered by international signed for)

Argued with paypal, issued tracking number to them to which they said doesn't provide proof of delivery, so then went to claim against royal mail for loosing the package, they then quickly came back with proof of delivery which I then sent to paypal.

I then got an email from paypal saying "as a gesture of goodwill they will credit my account with the monies they had previously withdrawn" which I was a bit miffed at because it wasn't a gesture of goodwill at all it was a flaw in their system where buyer protection of a known scammer is seemingly stronger than seller protection of someone with 5 year account and 100% feedback.
banned#19
The maximum compensation for loss of or damage to a mobile phone (or any device with mobile phone capability) is £41. When you use International Signed For or Airsure® to send a packet containing a mobile phone together with other items, you can buy additional compensation in excess of £41 but this will only cover the other contents. Additional compensation in excess of £41 will not be paid against the mobile phone.
#20
This is my reply to the original dispute to paypal.... over 2 and a half years ago....still cant believe they've closed this loophole.

Describe the nature of your complaint: 'Please advise on how Paypal as an organisation can advertise "seller protection" which is a blatent lie, when during a dispute you ask for proof of postage which can be provided yet still settle in favor of the buyer, when clearly they are abusing your dispute proceedure and leaving genuine ebay sellers out of pocket, including myself. I would like to bring your attention to paypal member: xxxxxx

I have just had a case closed with this member where paypal has judged in favor of this scammer, he/she bids on ebay auctions (usually mobile phones) where the buyer specifically states they will post to UK only. If they refuse to post to Poland then they are left negative feedback calling them a cheat/lier, many however do post, making sure to post recorded delivery, after a few weeks they then open a dispute claiming never to have recieved the item, Paypal then asks for a postage reference number which can usually be provided, then a fax of the postage recipt which again can usually be provided, yet still paypal files in favor of this buyer. Even in their ebay feedback you can see this happens, how many people have left good feedback for recieving monies only to have it refunded from their account as well as loosing the item they were selling, it is an absolubte disgrace as clearly your seller protection is non-existant.

This area is not as black and white as Paypal would like to believe, this member should be punished for abusing the system and stealing monies of genuine sellers.

This matter is nowhere near settled as I hold Ebay and Paypal personally responsible for allowing such activities to go within its system, it's making a mockery of ebay sellers, while both Paypal, Ebay and this member makes a lot of money fraudulantly.

Kind Regards
#21
Have a look at the buyers history and see if they have bought other expensive items and then contact the sellers,see if they have done it to anyone else.
#22
Wtf is international signd for delivery where we cannot guarantee it will be signed for, what sort of service is that?
#23
robot1000
Seeing as the buyer left me positive feedback would that not work against them?


I think you may well have a small case I am going through something similar at the moment. Buyer has done a chargeback, although they have already left feedback. I pointed this out to Paypal, and told them I had not sent a trackable method, but that it was to a confirmed address. Yesterday they asked me to send prrof of postage, specifically stating it does not need a tracking number, no outcome as yet but fingers crossed!
2 Likes #24
They need to bring back negative feedback for buyers, so stupid ebay removed that, as buyers get away with everything
#25
This is one of the many reason I don't sell on eBay any more. There are far too many scammers on there and you have no protection from either ebay or paypal.
#26
This is why I hate using Ebay.

Full of scammers and customer service that is a joke.
#27
Its a risky thing selling on eBay nowadays. I never rely on the money from the items I sell as its so unreliable, CEX or FS/FT thread here are my preffered.
#28
Ebay is fine as long as you play by the rules and do everything they ask, there is nowhere better or more lucrative.
#29
and then debt guys after him once his account is in a negative balance

quote=dcx_badass]Withdraw the money from paypal and remove all bank and card details asap, you might lose but will still have the money at least.[/quote]
#30
dcx_badass
Withdraw the money from paypal and remove all bank and card details asap, you might lose but will still have the money at least.


Stupid advice, do you think that you'll never hear from ebay again if you did that?
1 Like #31
Its quite simple, You post an item with adequate insurance and if the item doesnt arrive you claim from the insurance,
1 Like #32
dcx_badass
greg_68
dcx_badass
Withdraw the money from paypal and remove all bank and card details asap, you might lose but will still have the money at least.
Stupid advice, do you think that you'll never hear from ebay again if you did that?
No, but I'd rather that than lose £150.

Then you recieve a letter from a credit collection agency with their fee on top, as well as the detrimental affect on your credit record, stick to looking after your pocket money.
#33
tonyg1962
Its quite simple, You post an item with adequate insurance and if the item doesnt arrive you claim from the insurance,


Exactly my thoughts, if the item I was sending wasn't going to be signed for then I wouldn't be using that service or not sending it at all.
#34
dcx_badass
greg_68
dcx_badass
Withdraw the money from paypal and remove all bank and card details asap, you might lose but will still have the money at least.
Stupid advice, do you think that you'll never hear from ebay again if you did that?

No, but I'd rather that than lose £150.


You'd rather have debt collectors and possible effects to your credit rating than £150, you must be living in another world or a teen one.
banned#35
MinstrelMan
dcx_badass
greg_68
dcx_badass
Withdraw the money from paypal and remove all bank and card details asap, you might lose but will still have the money at least.
Stupid advice, do you think that you'll never hear from ebay again if you did that?
No, but I'd rather that than lose £150.


Then you recieve a letter from a credit collection agency with their fee on top, as well as the detrimental affect on your credit record, stick to looking after your pocket money.


to be fair, its not actually that hard to stop the debt collection agency to back off, and paypal not to chase you anymore.
Unless its changed recently they can't add anything to your credit record either.
#36
From what i have read on here, i can virtually garuntee paypal will close the claim in the buyers favour.

They normally give you 10 days to provide proof of signature, date/time and building name/post code

I think city link/dhl are the only couriers who are able to provide these pieces of info

Sadly, buyers esp the scammers know the system inside/out hence opening the claim at day 40.

I guess this spoils xmas for you.
1 Like #37
o yeah, a good tip for sellers...

always put a pin/password (if its possible) befor you ship your device and only wait untill the buyer emails you asking for the code.

Keep that email if things go wrong
1 Like #38
robot1000
It also seems strange that the buyer is opening the dispute 40 days after purchasing it

Why did they not contact me earlier to enquiry as to where it is??


maybe hoping you have thrown away or lost the tracking number
#39
ilovepink
robot1000
It also seems strange that the buyer is opening the dispute 40 days after purchasing it

Why did they not contact me earlier to enquiry as to where it is??


maybe hoping you have thrown away or lost the tracking number


Exactly what I was thinking, if the buyer leaves feedback after say 5 days, how many sellers are going to keep the tracking slip for another 35 days after that/ Maybe a lesson for all there to keep tracking slips for over 45 days.
#40
greg_68
ilovepink
robot1000
It also seems strange that the buyer is opening the dispute 40 days after purchasing it

Why did they not contact me earlier to enquiry as to where it is??


maybe hoping you have thrown away or lost the tracking number


Exactly what I was thinking, if the buyer leaves feedback after say 5 days, how many sellers are going to keep the tracking slip for another 35 days after that/ Maybe a lesson for all there to keep tracking slips for over 45 days.


:) i have receipts from over a year ago still for recorded delivery items etc. Just in case.

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