Help with a sale! Paypal claim - item not as described - HotUKDeals
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Help with a sale! Paypal claim - item not as described

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I need some help from the collective wisdom of HUKD. I sold a phone on ebay (and will be my last, I imagine!) to a buyer in Germany. I sent it tracked with insurance up to £250 on the 2nd December.… Read More
VenomSS Avatar
7y, 4m agoPosted 7 years, 4 months ago
I need some help from the collective wisdom of HUKD.

I sold a phone on ebay (and will be my last, I imagine!) to a buyer in Germany. I sent it tracked with insurance up to £250 on the 2nd December.

The buyer has now made a paypal claim against me just yesterday!! (nearly a month!) stating that it was not as described;

He says it was "badly scratched" when I mentioned that there were a few fine scratches on the auction site (really nothing that can be seen easily when it is turned on and I mentioned that). He aslo complains that I did not mention the network branding even when I got it unlocked.

The phone sold for around £230 and now he wants to claim £86!!! off me for "repair of the phone screen and replacement of the cover to remove the branding". Really is taking the pi**!! And he's not mentioned it anytime between the phone's arrival and yesterday. He is very uncooperative and has a one track mind on getting the money back. Where do I stand with this guy? I reckon he's clearly trying it on and getting some money back but I know the chances are that paypal will side with the buyer. I'm afraid he might send an empty box tracked to me if I ask for him to send the item back. What would you do?
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VenomSS Avatar
7y, 4m agoPosted 7 years, 4 months ago
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#1
Did you take photos of the screen? scratches etc? if you did show them to paypal
1 Like #2
Item number?
#3
Lets WAR :)
#4
winifer
Did you take photos of the screen? scratches etc? if you did show them to paypal


I uploaded only one photo onto ebay that doesn't show any scratches clearly enough although there were other images saved on my camera that you could make out the scratches on.

In hindsight, it's foolish. But I can't believe the lack of protection offered and just how easy it is to get scammed on ebay! Paypal would be no help at all from what I've read.
#5
Well if you have other photos that show it, do they have like a time on it? so that you can prove they are the same time/phone etc.. Your only hope with paypal is if you can convince them the phone was as described, by the use of photos that you have.. If you have the item number of your listing we will have a look at it and see what you can do
#6
Yeah, Conpal are jokers.
1 Like #7
if you ask him to send the item back, then you should always open it with a video camera recording the unpacking. This may become handy as a proof if you go that route at all.
#8
winifer
Well if you have other photos that show it, do they have like a time on it? so that you can prove they are the same time/phone etc.. Your only hope with paypal is if you can convince them the phone was as described, by the use of photos that you have.. If you have the item number of your listing we will have a look at it and see what you can do


Don't think I'll dispite the condition of the phone. Even though I still disagree that it's as bad as the buyer says it is, I'm not willing to risk the chance that paypal will simply refund the money to the buyer and then I'd be left with absolutely nothing. Far safer to just take the £86 penalty or get the buyer to send it back (that'll teach him... unless I get an empty box of bricks that is)
#9
rsethi
if you ask him to send the item back, then you should always open it with a video camera recording the unpacking. This may become handy as a proof if you go that route at all.


Good idea. Has anyone ever tried it?
#10
But any recording can be staged, how can it be proof??
#11
could you get the covers cheaper and then send on to the buyer? if i was you, i would get them to return the phone to you. if they were to not include the phone in the box, it woud show up on the postage as the weight woudnt be the same as yrs.
#12
I know this is not helpful, but I always sell to UK bidders only. Much easier when it comes to postage and problem solving. Mind you with PPal and fleabay charges, I think it's better to use this fs forum.
#13
Emmamed
could you get the covers cheaper and then send on to the buyer? if i was you, i would get them to return the phone to you. if they were to not include the phone in the box, it woud show up on the postage as the weight woudnt be the same as yrs.


He flat out refused to do that. I offered this in the first instance as I know that I didn't mention the branding but I absolutely deny the condition of the scratches.
#14
skintzimbo
I know this is not helpful, but I always sell to UK bidders only. Much easier when it comes to postage and problem solving. Mind you with PPal and fleabay charges, I think it's better to use this fs forum.


Yes, I'm not selling internationally anymore after one other incidence... a scam fraud claim.

I've never had so many problems with ebay before but now it seems to be a breeding ground for the dishonest.
#15
wendyak
But any recording can be staged, how can it be proof??


I was hoping to zoom in on the tracking number and video it all around to make absolutely sure the seal wasn't broken..

....then again, paypal will probably make some stupid excuse to say I patched it all up again before videoing it.
1 Like #16
VenomSS
He flat out refused to do that. I offered this in the first instance as I know that I didn't mention the branding but I absolutely deny the condition of the scratches.


he cant refuse to send the phone back. if youstate on yr paypal claim that you would like the buyer to return the phone and u will issue a full refund. just remember if it gone to a full dispute, you can only send a message to paypal once, so think about yr reply, maybe type it out and paste it into word, so yu can add to it as u think of things.
#17
Emmamed
he cant refuse to send the phone back. if youstate on yr paypal claim that you would like the buyer to return the phone and u will issue a full refund. just remember if it gone to a full dispute, you can only send a message to paypal once, so think about yr reply, maybe type it out and paste it into word, so yu can add to it as u think of things.


If he's got the phone repaired already would he still have to send it back? I think that was the implication.

He must have went to the most expensive place out there *cough* *cough*
I'm tempted to ask for a receipt in an attempt to reduce the partial refund but it probably won't mean anything.
#18
I'm fairly sure that if you have offered a full refund for return of the phone and the buyer has declined this, then it will go in your favour when paypal are resolving the matter.
Whatever you do, make sure you respond to the dispute, if you ignore it paypal will automatically resolve it in the buyers favour.

I would try to establish if the repair has definitely already been done. If it has suggest that this matter should have been brought up immediately upon receipt of the phone, so that it was your decision what course of action to take. With the repair having already been done, it is bullying you into paying for it, like it or not.

Stand your ground, it's not fair what he's done :)
#19
VenomSS
If he's got the phone repaired already would he still have to send it back? I think that was the implication.

He must have went to the most expensive place out there *cough* *cough*
I'm tempted to ask for a receipt in an attempt to reduce the partial refund but it probably won't mean anything.


thats his fault if hes already done the work.
#20
boardingnuts
I'm fairly sure that if you have offered a full refund for return of the phone and the buyer has declined this, then it will go in your favour when paypal are resolving the matter.
Whatever you do, make sure you respond to the dispute, if you ignore it paypal will automatically resolve it in the buyers favour.

I would try to establish if the repair has definitely already been done. If it has suggest that this matter should have been brought up immediately upon receipt of the phone, so that it was your decision what course of action to take. With the repair having already been done, it is bullying you into paying for it, like it or not.

Stand your ground, it's not fair what he's done :)


I think I'll take the risk and ask for the buyer to send back. I have a record of the IMEI so will stipulate that I want the phone with that IMEI back. Worst scenario is no phone and no cash... but what are the chances?
#21
Take the money off ur paypal account and card details +

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNN
#22
Sadly, eBay's new "buyer protection" policies mean sellers are totally shafted by unscrupulous people wanting something for nothing (can' you tell I've had the same experiences lol?!)

I had an item returned to me (well, I had to arrange a courier collection) totally kicked in by the buyer because they said the item wasn't as described (it had got damaged in transit, and the brand new part would have cost £4.20p to buy, which I offered to replace for them, of course). Sadly, the few unscrupulous buyers make it a nightmare for honest sellers. Oh and to top it all, you won't be able to leave him negative feedback on the transaction, no matter what he does or says!!

Paypal side with the buyer 99.9% of the time, regardless of any evidence produced and the eBay resolution process is a joke. Seller beware :-S (Sorry, not much help!)
#23
killerof8
Take the money off ur paypal account and card details +

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNN


Trust me, I'd love to. I hate having morals.
#24
killerof8
Take the money off ur paypal account and card details +

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNN


paypal will instruct debt collectors if they cant get the money back
#25
Trogglescow
Sadly, eBay's new "buyer protection" policies mean sellers are totally shafted by unscrupulous people wanting something for nothing (can' you tell I've had the same experiences lol?!)

I had an item returned to me (well, I had to arrange a courier collection) totally kicked in by the buyer because they said the item wasn't as described (it had got damaged in transit, and the brand new part would have cost £4.20p to buy, which I offered to replace for them, of course). Sadly, the few unscrupulous buyers make it a nightmare for honest sellers. Oh and to top it all, you won't be able to leave him negative feedback on the transaction, no matter what he does or says!!

Paypal side with the buyer 99.9% of the time, regardless of any evidence produced and the eBay resolution process is a joke. Seller beware :-S (Sorry, not much help!)


Wait; I have to pay for return postage too?? That can't be right.
#26
Just hire me, I'll sort him out
After all I am the KILLEROF8
!LOL!
1 Like #27
God. All this sounds awful. I have just sold a phoneto someone in Spain. I was going to not go through with it as I stated to deliver in the Uk and I didn't check where he was from when I accepted his offer but I was told by eBay that there shouldn't be any hassle and that I would have to go through with it so I did. All this sounds a nightmare and totally puts me off selling anything on there. I must admit though I think it's soooounfair that you can't reply to negative feedback as I had my first one last week. I sold some perfume and even though ihad a close up of the bottle the lady complained because I had put in my ad that I thought it was about 85% full and she complained because she bought it was only 60% full. The problem is is Boss Femme doesn't come as a totally full bottle because of the 45% shaped bottle at the top and I even sent her a pic of a brand new one but the tight fisted cow gave me negative feedback as she said it was for her daughter for Christmas and that she wouldn't be able to pass this on as a present.... I was the left thinking why the he'll would you buy a second hand bottle in the first place as any used bottle is a used bottle and would be able to tell. Sorry for any mistakes in this as I am on my phone typing this. Full sympathy though to you. I hope the buyer of your phone has this done to him in return.
#28
Why not tell him that the phone was described as having scratches and he could have asked for futher details if he was concerned, and that the branding on the cover doesn't in anyway change the phone it is, say that he is free to return the phone for a full refund. Or if he prefers as a gesture of goodwill you'll refund him £30 since you didn't specifically mention the branding.
suspended#29
Paypay and Ebay are both the two worst companies i have even known in my life.
Being a seller on Ebay is worse than being shat on by Susan Boyle after 10 pints of Guinness and a Doner Kebab.
#30
DarkKnight
Being a seller on Ebay is worse than being shat on by Susan Boyle after 10 pints of Guinness and a Doner Kebab.


Hmm, tell us more..... Time, place, pics or you're lying :lol:
suspended#31
Shengis
Hmm, tell us more..... Time, place, pics or you're lying :lol:


Well, you can find out more by listening to her new album :-D
#32
Right... I may just have this...

According to paypal user agreements:

What is Significantly Not as Described (SNAD)?

An item is Significantly Not as Described if it is materially different than what the seller described in the item listing. Here are some examples:

* You received a completely different item. Example: You purchased a book and received a DVD or an empty box.
* The condition of the item was misrepresented. Example: The listing said "new" and the item was used.
* The item was advertised as authentic but is not authentic.
* The item is missing major parts or features which were not disclosed in the listing.
* You purchased three items from a seller but only received two.
*

The item was damaged during shipment.

An item is not Significantly Not as Described if it is materially similar to the seller’s item listing description. Here are some examples:

* The defect in the item was correctly described by the seller.
* The item was properly described but you didn't want it after you received it.
* The item was properly described but did not meet your expectations.
* The item has minor scratches and was listed as used condition.


Since this guy actually stated in the first dispute line that the problem was "Orange Branding" and "bad scratches" (not exactly those words, but the German equivalent), does that mean it's not SNAD and I can let this run with paypal?
Again, I guess it's the fear of losing both phone and money with this route.. still thinking about my 3 options.
#33
Hmmmmm
German
PS. I'm not a rasist
#34
Item number?
#35
Shengis
Item number?


Not gonna happen ,,,,,
#36
tonyg1962
Not gonna happen ,,,,,


Wonder why......

VenomSS
I uploaded only one photo onto ebay that doesn't show any scratches clearly enough although there were other images saved on my camera that you could make out the scratches on.


I think this is a rather revealing admission.
#37
If the original dispute doesnt go your way, phone the financial ombudsman service and explain your case. It's independent and if they decide you are in the right paypal have to comply. When paypal sat back and watched me get scammed, these people didnt and I got my money back.

Good luck
#38
I know Im no help because im useless when it comes 2 things like this but let us know what happens because I really want 2 know...

[COLOR="Green"]GOOD LUCK[/COLOR]
#39
VenomSS
Wait; I have to pay for return postage too?? That can't be right.


the seller is not responsable for the costs of the buyer returning the item to you
#40
Just tell him you want the phone back in its original condition and packaging. You can do this via the paypal dispute. the buyer will have to send recorded, when the package arrives open infront of the person who delivers it with a recording if possible in case the buyer tries the empty box routine. You do not have to refund return postage but yoy do have to refund the original p+p. I just had a buyer demanding a £45 refund for a new battery (battery cost £21-£35) on a laptop i sold recently. When the buyer was pushed to return the laptop he dropped the claim and decided to keep it.Unfortunately there are a lot of risks when selling with fleabay especially since thebuyer cannot get negetive feedback anymore. If the buyer does have grounds like bad scratches then as a seller i would agree to pay all costs including return ones, you have to be really careful how you advertise things on Ebay and have to point out all possible defects.

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