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History repeating

Kitten13 Avatar
8y, 9m agoPosted 8 years, 9 months ago
Thinking about our oh so (not) great Government, got me to thinking about the English Civil War.

The causes of that, although slightly different (for one our queen isn't bringing in all these stupid rules, unlike Charles I )

There were the stupid taxes, meaning that what ever people earnt, went on taxes, from what I remember, the cost of food went up. Elected poloticians weren't given a say, and the leaders decided what the people would do, with out people getting a say,

Could our current Leaders, be unwhittingly heading towards another civil war?
Kitten13 Avatar
8y, 9m agoPosted 8 years, 9 months ago
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#1
Put simply- no. Can you see many householders rising up to fight, risking their Flatscreen TVs, metallic paintjobbed cars, ipods, all to anarchy?
#2
Nope. Quite simply because the people don't have the arms to fight such a thing, unlike back in the day. Baseball bats against SMG's? No thanks :lol:
#3
people wouldnt fight unless your food, family and basic needs are at high risk. brits generally seem to have a high tolerance level for paying more than they should.
#4
Its just getting close to the break-up of the UK.

Roll on Independence.
#5
There are people in the good old USA that this is happening to them. If you can get hold of it, Louis Theroux did a good documentary about it called Louis Heads For The Hills
banned 1 Like #6
billyX
Put simply- no. Can you see many householders rising up to fight, risking their Flatscreen TVs, metallic paintjobbed cars, ipods, all to anarchy?


I came here for "deal anarchy" and I bought a bat with a nail in it, so why not?
#7
I just personaly feel that this country is becoming a joke. seriously thinking about emigrating, nothing to keep us here anymore
#8
Kitten13
I just personaly feel that this country is becoming a joke. seriously thinking about emigrating, nothing to keep us here anymore


where are you thinking ... we're looking into it too, but maybe in 5 years' time. kinda stuck here for the next few years to this thing called the mortgage!
#9
Kitten13
I just personaly feel that this country is becoming a joke. seriously thinking about emigrating, nothing to keep us here anymore


I once found a website (wish I could remember the name of it) where you could fill in all your details and it worked out your points there and then and told you if you would be eligible to emigrate to that country (obviously it was a rough guide, I HOPE!!). The only country that would take us was Canada. Even the UK would have turned us down if we had been foreigners applying to emigrate here!!! :w00t:
#10
I hope your not hinting at tomorrows Daily Mail headline :w00t:
#11
JDeal
I came here for "deal anarchy" and I bought a bat with a nail in it, so why not?


THATS how you get such good deals in Currys then!

This site is about as anarchistic as Busted's themetune for the Thunderbirds film. *Worst catch line ever*
#12
unfortunately not in a english country, people in this country will continue to eat the **** given to them by this government. you will see rebellion ib every other country but here,.

why else do you think we have petrol at over 1.08 per litre, because they know what you are gonna do about it. You are gonna fill up like a woos.
most mps pay less in tax than normal working class people, what do we do . NOTHING

that is a vote to do what they want
banned#13
I seem to recall several series of riots during the last government. In 1981 the whole country had outbreaks every night.Then of course, the most recent, poll tax.

The grass is greener on the other side?
#14
kippy
where are you thinking ... we're looking into it too, but maybe in 5 years' time. kinda stuck here for the next few years to this thing called the mortgage!


Just thinking about across the chanel, my folks want to run a B&B in Normandy, with camping grounds, and do sort of like d-day beach tours, driving people to sites of historical intrest.

Just wish people would fight for their rights, instead of being screwed over all the time.

I don't drive, I can't afford too, so I don't pay the rediculous taxes, I don't smoke, I don't own my own home, the only thing I do, that isn't good for me, is drink, and I am getting taxed more and more on that.

I buy wine in Normandy for 1 euro a bottle, thats in Lidl over there, the same wine in Lidl over here, costs 3.99 a bottle, thats how much we are ripped off
#15
Er, you seem to be working under one heck of a misguided idea of taxation based on wine being cheap in France... they pay a heck of a lot more tax than us, and tbh there's enough problems in France, from massive banlieue violence to poor schooling systems etc.

Here's the stats for average personal taxation across all categories:

USA taxation- 25.4% (but no health care and the schools are ****ed)
UK taxation- 36.1%
France taxation- 43.7%

To be perfectly frank, if our Government wanted to fix some of the problems- the NHS, schools, bin collections, etc that we have- they'd have to bring our taxation in line with the rest of Europe- so 42% or so. When people complain about taxes, they seem to forget that they stay pretty fixed in terms of average take, whilst the costs accrued to provide the services we expect constantly rise. Compare the amount of technology in a hospital now up to even ten years ago; you can see where the money is being spent, just as you can see why there are shorftalls in spending.

Find me any country in the world where people don't think they're being 'ripped off' by taxes or prices and i'll show you a picture of a baby aeroplane. We are not supposed to like paying taxes- have you never played Sim City lol!
#16
Maybe if the MP's didn't claim so much money for 'expenses' and wages for their families, there would be alot more money to put into public services.

The olympics is going to be a drain on tax, and I don't know that many people who acctulay want the olympics to be held in England.
#17
maybe if they tax the cars with only one person in, that could raise some much needed money.
1 Like #18
There hasn't been an Olympics that has made a financial loss for over thirty years, most make hundreds of millions of pounds profit, why do you think the countries are so desperate to get them?

As for MPs expenses and wages- a friend of mine is a candidential MP, he employs his wife as nobody else wants a 60+ hours a week job which pays £14,000 a year. They don't bother to mention why so many MPs employ their families in the news reports, as it kind of kills the argument. Put it this way- if their family members who are being paid weren't doing the work needed to run a constituency, how long do you think the MP would last? Or would the MP simply pay their family and somehow do all the work themselves?

The vast majority of MPs are well-educated people who believe strongly in personal service to the country (along with a bit of 'I like being on the telly, being important, and might be PM one day' to be fair). Many MPs have good degrees, are obviously well-suited to management (they would not get selected to be candidates unless they were very capable people) and could be earning far higher wages working either for themselves or companies. We pay our MPs far less than many other countries- they earn less on average than a GP. Quite why we have this whole idea that MPs are ripping us off when they could take higher paid jobs in industry confounds me. Why would someone like Blair take ten years of grief- of suspicion- for a touch over £100,000 a year when he could have done three years as PM and then taken a couple of million-a-year board places? I guess it's because he truly believes in doing the best he can to move the country forward, and doesn't think that sitting and moaning about how bad things are is an option. (For the record I think Blair was ****, showed dreadful decision making abilities, but did a much better job than I could ever do!)
#19
Could our current Leaders, be unwhittingly heading towards another civil war?

They could arrest you for sayng things like that. Don't you know it's 1984?

But seriously, things would need to be desparate before things went that far, and it's a huge exaggeration to suggest we are anywhere near that. And as guv points out, the closest we've had to serious anarchy (let alone civil war!) was when we last had a conservative government, which, it seems to me, came to power on the kind of grievances you are suggesting. You might have swallowed their rhetoric from back then though, and remember those days with rose-tinted glasses..?

I'm also of the impression that many people here don't realise how good they've had it the last 10 years. The grass may seem greener elsewhere, but Britain has been a pretty good place to be economically. (Socially is another matter), The current slowdown/downturn was felt elsewhere a lot earlier in most cases. That green grass may turn out to be burnt brown when you see it.
#20
Liddle ol' me
I'm also of the impression that many people here don't realise how good they've had it the last 10 years. The grass may seem greener elsewhere, but Britain has been a pretty good place to be economically. (Socially is another matter), The current slowdown/downturn was felt elsewhere a lot earlier in most cases. That green grass may turn out to be burnt brown when you see it.


I wanted to applaud that statement with a picture of a nail being hit on it's head, but google bought me this rather random pic of Bill Cosby drinking for some reason:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/jollychainsaw/cosby.jpg
banned#21
billyX;1767904
There hasn't been an Olympics that has made a financial loss for over thirty years, most make hundreds of millions of pounds profit,


Nonsense. With the exception of Los Angeles, they have all made a loss. We were told the costs and lied to. Its already 4 times the figure quoted - and no doubt that's not the end of it.



why do you think the countries are so desperate to get them?


In our case for personal gratitude of those in power. I'm certainly not looking forward to the tax hykes we will face to pay for it. Are you?

As for MPs expenses and wages- a friend of mine is a candidential MP, he employs his wife as nobody else wants a 60+ hours a week job which pays £14,000 a year. They don't bother to mention why so many MPs employ their families in the news reports, as it kind of kills the argument. Put it this way- if their family members who are being paid weren't doing the work needed to run a constituency, how long do you think the MP would last? Or would the MP simply pay their family and somehow do all the work themselves?


If they want credibility, they employ a proper professional. And being a candidate isn't the same as being an MP and having the proverbial troft in front of them. They don't pay £14K and you would be foolish to think that was the case. Does your friend enjoy the benefit of upto £500 expense bills without a receipt? (yes I know that has now just been reduced, but why should any individual have tax perks that others are not trusted with?)


The vast majority of MPs are well-educated people who believe strongly in personal service to the country (along with a bit of 'I like being on the telly, being important, and might be PM one day' to be fair). Many MPs have good degrees, are obviously well-suited to management (they would not get selected to be candidates unless they were very capable people) and could be earning far higher wages working either for themselves or companies. We pay our MPs far less than many other countries- they earn less on average than a GP. Quite why we have this whole idea that MPs are ripping us off when they could take higher paid jobs in industry confounds me. Why would someone like Blair take ten years of grief- of suspicion- for a touch over £100,000 a year when he could have done three years as PM and then taken a couple of million-a-year board places?


You have just answered your own question. Its a means to an end. Do you think Blair would be commanding what he gets now for the part time jobs he enjoys now? Do you think MPs dont have "jobs" as directors in companies while in office? Wake up and smell the coffee.
#22
billyX
I wanted to applaud that statement with a picture of a nail being hit on it's head, but google bought me this rather random pic of Bill Cosby drinking for some reason:


I'm glad you found the one you did; much more interesting than a nail beng hit on the head! :)

I agree strongly with your comments on MPs. More to add but bed calls.
#23
I know several political candidates, who I have out argued on the odd occasion, they just want to be a MP for the attention, and the perks, not to make a difference.

My local MP maybe loosing the labour whip, as he has stood up for what he believes in, but the rest of his party don't for fear of upsetting the status quo in the party.

I want people who will follow their beliefs, even if it goes against the grain, not just be yes men to a PM who was placed there by the former PM, rather than having another general election.

And tbh, in this day in age many degrees mean nothing, as that many people have them, they may aswell give them away with 6 lids from smarties packs.
#24
Kitten13
I And tbh, in this day in age many degrees mean nothing, as that many people have them, they may aswell give them away with 6 lids from smarties packs.


What an illogical thing to say. So a degree is only worth something if it is kept exclusive? Let' examine what you have said above: You have made a double leap from a basic truth to a fallacious statement to a ridiculous claim. You really should start thinking a little more carefully: If you want to seriously criticise politicians you need to show yourself capable of understanding the issues. The kind of stuff you are coming out with doesn't cut it yet.
#25
There's so much to rage against in this thread, but tbh I can't be bothered now, im going to get on and do some proper work for a change!

Anyway, niceish debate- i've appreciated the comments by Guv and Liddle in particular, jonnyq made a good point too. The truth is that there is much that is misleading in the world- an idea represented in this picture:

http://www.vintagecomputing.com/wp-content/images/retroscan/ti_cosby_small.jpg

See, if Bill Cosby can try to con us that the Texas Instruments computer is the way forward, what are we really supposed to believe? eh? eh?

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