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I am shocked, disgusted and horrified.

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When we got up this morning our green bin was a pile of smouldering ashes, some asshole had set it on fire about 3 foot from our kitchen window, the fire had burned with enough heat to crack the outer… Read More
harlzter Avatar
8y, 9m agoPosted 8 years, 9 months ago
When we got up this morning our green bin was a pile of smouldering ashes, some asshole had set it on fire about 3 foot from our kitchen window, the fire had burned with enough heat to crack the outer pane, the reality of how close we came to potentially losing our lives (my partner kids and myself) is only just hitting home.

To top it off one of our neighbours was asking people this morning what had happened as she saw the fire burning at 4am knew exactly where it was and did nothing about it! Are people that callous they could possibly see a family die and when they only need to dial 999?
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harlzter Avatar
8y, 9m agoPosted 8 years, 9 months ago
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#1
What makes me suspicious is we have had a dispute with her husband after he claims the council put our new hedge too near his garage (even though their is a private lane between our boundary/his garage) we have had to have the police out to him before after repeated threats and him coming onto our property, and he has made threats to get revenge and we dont know how evil he can be.

The polices response to the arson? If theres no petrol bottles nearby there will be no evidence! I mean WTF? there are footprints all over the soil that arent ours! We have given them a prime suspect too!

Anyone know my rights if I catch him on our property again if I take matters into my own hands? Ive tried so hard over the last 7/8 years to leave violence behind me and do things right, but the baseball bat is now never far out of reach, whatever it takes I will defend my family.
banned#2
Sorry to hear about this x x
#3
thats really sucky but how can u be sure its that guy and not some silly kids?
#4
Shocking.

I'm glad you & your fam are safe. Standard response by the police, eh.

I hope karma is on form real soon.
#5
magicbeans;3256172
thats really sucky but how can u be sure its that guy and not some silly kids?

Im not saying it his him, but its got my suspicions up as she saw the fire and did nothing knowing theres kids in the house, it has got me in fear for my familys safety though and put me in the mindset of protect at all costs whatever it takes, for the next few weeks i'll be on all night vigils:x
#6
I cannot believe the neighbour saw this and didn't come out to check or dial 999, dispute or no dispute
#7
harlzter
Im not saying it his him, but its got my suspicions up as she saw the fire and did nothing knowing theres kids in the house, it has got me in fear for my familys safety though and put me in the mindset of protect at all costs whatever it takes, for the next few weeks i'll be on all night vigils:x


Have the police been out to you or was this advice from over the phone?? I don't know about where you live, but here it is standard protocol for an officer to attend the scene of any arson, and part of that enquiry would include house to house. Scenes of crime would also have to attend as per protocol and would be interested in footprints. If they haven't been yet, cover the footprints with a plastic bag and a brick or similar to protect them if you can.
[mod]#8
Thats terrible, you would think your neighbour would of rang you or checked it out at least.

Glad no one was hurt though :)
#9
Yes, sorry to hear this - very bad news. I know it's probably not the time to say it, but it might not have been who you thought it was so try not to let your (understandable) emotions get the better of you just in case. I know, easy to say as it wasn't my family who nearly lost their lives, but you never know. Anyway, hope nothing like this ever happens again and that whoever did it is never tries something so stupid again.
banned#10
harlzter

Anyone know my rights if I catch him on our property again if I take matters into my own hands? Ive tried so hard over the last 7/8 years to leave violence behind me and do things right, but the baseball bat is now never far out of reach, whatever it takes I will defend my family.


I know its hard, but assuming you have been done for violence before (from what you said above, apologies if not), then remember another conviction will possibly be life under the 2 strikes policy. Your family will be without you for a good few years.
A better policy would maybe stick a security light up and a cheap cctv camera.
#11
be careful. if he goes on your property he's technically only tresspassing if he has to cause criminal damage to get on it, i.e break through a fence etc. stepping through your front gate is perfectly legally untill he actually causes damage
#12
Jeez sorry to hear that!!!

you would think that not reporting a fire would be an offence tho!!!

cant you photograph the footprints yourself etc they may get more info GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR @ the uselessness of the police once again probably busy booking double parked cars!!
#13
jus re read ur posts ... doh sorry.... seems very likely that it was that idiot and omg if i saw that id go running to the neighbours house... even thugh i hardly speak to many of them (no reason...just they way our neighbourhood is!)... anyways u would defo tell the houseowners or at least call fire brigade!

something is defo not right!!

maybe u should have a civil word?
#14
Good to hear your baseball bat is close mate.

If they're big enough to dish it, they're big enough to get some back.

Karma I think the social worker types call it.
banned#15
karaokecolin
Good to hear your baseball bat is close mate.

If they're big enough to dish it, they're big enough to get some back.

Karma I think the social worker types call it.


Problem for the OP is that they are also quite likely to go to the police if he does anything.
#16
Thamks for your support guys, I am literally sat here shaking with a combination of fear at what could have happened/anger/frustration etc, time to get the punchbag out tomorrow me thinks.
#17
harlzter
Thamks for your support guys, I am literally sat here shaking with a combination of fear at what could have happened/anger/frustration etc, time to get the punchbag out tomorrow me thinks.


Good call :thumbsup:
#18
colinsunderland
I know its hard, but assuming you have been done for violence before (from what you said above, apologies if not), then remember another conviction will possibly be life under the 2 strikes policy. Your family will be without you for a good few years.
A better policy would maybe stick a security light up and a cheap cctv camera.


totally agree..... although i say i would do ANYTHING to protect my family i would never do anything that would take me away from them coz i would want to be with them no matter what. get a cam to collect any evidence if needed but dont go and do something you may regret from behind cell walls
#19
yeah you gotta be so careful these days. the law favours the criminals. so you defend yourslef and your home, and they getto sue you and you get to go to prison and miss out on your kids childhood.

id report itto police. keep a log of all that is said (every last minute detail) incase it esculates even further.

my ex broke into my house and was prooven to have done, dna of blood left, and finger prints, then a conffesion and still he got away with a caution cos "not in the publics interest to prosecute" oh and he was already appearing in court at the time for four offenses, so i wouldnt expect anything to come of it. but if u were to beat him over the head or leg even with a baseball bat that GBH or ABH depending on the marks left, possibly even attempted manslaughter, attempted murder even. plus carrying a weapon, with the intent to wound or cause harm.

is he worth that??
#20
colinsunderland;3256334
Problem for the OP is that they are also quite likely to go to the police if he does anything.


The trouble is yeah ive been done for violence before, but he has been more so, so where does the balance lie?
My brother in law got charged with firing a shotgun at some badger baiters as they had had a series of farm fires and he was in fear for the family.

Its worse for my partner as she was at the farm when arsonist struck on several occasions and still suffers nightmares after that (seeing animals burnt alive in the process) and no it wasnt her, the culprit was caught and convicted for those.
#21
That's awful, the fact that someone set fire to a bin right outside your house in the first place and the fact that your neighbour basically sat there and watched it and did nothing.

If it were me, I'd call the police again, explain the situation with your neighbour and the fact that you and your family are now living in fear incase they decide to be stupid again and this time something much worse happens. Explain that whilst there may not be a petrol can nearby, there are clear footprints so you would be grateful if they could come over and see if these are indeed your neighbours footprints and take it from there.

If they can catagorically say they're the wrong size blah blah, then it might help you sleep a little easier knowing that by the sounds of it, you were just the unlucky recipient of a stupid teenage prank.
#22
Chill mate. Honestly, scumbags these days.

Too much Jeremy Kyle, not enough to do to earn money & occupy their time by way of a job & probably **** or no parenting. All adds up to this scummy, disrespectful under-culture we all have to suffer from time to time.

In my day as a kid, we were no angels- lived on a big estate, rough pub, shops etc- think Shameless.

But, we knew respect. We knew we'd get a slap from our parents and/or the local copper if we were out of line. And because of that discipline, we grew up accordingly. Nowadays, that ethos has gone & things happen like what happened to you last night.

I'm glad no-one in your family was hurt-that's the most important thing.

Don't let 'em grind you down.

Col.
#23
harlzter
The trouble is yeah ive been done for violence before, but he has been more so, so where does the balance lie?
My brother in law got charged with firing a shotgun at some badger baiters as they had had a series of farm fires and he was in fear for the family.

Its worse for my partner as she was at the farm when arsonist struck on several occasions and still suffers nightmares after that (seeing animals burnt alive in the process) and no it wasnt her, the culprit was caught and convicted for those.



oh god. poor thing. i bet she scared ten times more now. im sure the intention wasnt to harm but to scare, surely just didnt think how dangerous it would be. surley if inteneted to harm you would have done somethinga little more garenteed. i know prob doesnt comfort you alot.

i really wish people like this would fall of the face of the earth, they seem to have no idea what emotional pain they cause.
#24
Aww sorry to her this hun........there are some real ******** out there. Glad ur all safe and sound though x
#25
omg just read this. sorry to hear about this happening to you, it's awful. doesnt help with the neighbour not even dialing 999 which is non-confrontational - no excuse!

poor you, HUGS. hope you are not too affected by it, most of all be strong for the family.
banned#26
When she said she saw it, did you ask why she didnt raise the alarm? Whether she was anything to do with it (or knew who was) the fact she didnt sounds remarkably suspicious! What the hell was she doing looking at your house at 4am anyway!

Have you contacted the police to report this and raise your concerns and suspicions? I'm sure they would be able to ask those questions - since she's admitted seeing it. Just the prospect of the police suspecting her involvement should give her a signal to (a) know she's being possibly connected or (b) know what to do if she sees something suspicious.

Not good news m8. Feel for you.
#27
Harlzter,
Sorry to hear about this. I realise its hard to accuse someone on a hunch, but if the wife just happened to be up at that time in the morning it would raise my suspicions.
I am disappointed that the local police havent come out, particularly if there is evidence at the scene - footprints. CSI here would come out to this and take the prints. We can identify the make of shoe etc and then compare to a database. They all have unique nicks in them which arent quite as good as a fingerprint but can give us good evidence if we already have them in a databse or if someone comes in to custody with them on. The other option would then be for you to try and clock his footwear and if it is the same we would have to determine how to lock him up and seize his shoes.
I hear this so often about police not coming out and for the life of me I dont know why this is. We go to all crime in North Wales. There are also other things available to you, one has aready been mentioned that is for you to install cameras. The other option, if you can persuade the local CBM of an ongoing problem is for the police to install their cameras, the only problem is there are only so many of the police cameras available and it has to go through a RIPA process (protection of the public from intrusion by cameras)
If he was to come on to your property and you were concerned for yours or your familys safety you are entitled to use reasonable force to defend your family. Be careful that you will have to explain any actions you take, but believe me, common law enables you to do just this
I would phone the local inspector, complain that evidence has potentially been lost and make an official complaint.
I would also consider putting a camera up along with a passive lamp that illuminates the area when someone comes near. This will either catch him in the act or deter him from coming anywhere near.
Out of curiosity have you tried putting your shoe/trainer against the marks to see how big they are? This may help you determine if it is kids or more likely an adult.
Were any other bins done that evening? is your bin in a vulnerable place? if not then it would add weight to the theory that you had been targetted.
If you need anything else let me know
#28
they got better cops in wales.
#29
i'd buy family tickets to the cinema and "take the family out to the pics"
what happens in the neighbourhood while i'm there doesn't concern me as i was "watching a movie with the OH and kids":whistling:
If you need any help contact my friend Ali Bhai
#30
ADZ1478;3257060
There are also other things available to you, one has aready been mentioned that is for you to install cameras.

[COLOR=Blue]Got a decent webcam hooked to the pc to auto-detect movement and start recording, plus a pir activated halogen lamp[/COLOR]

I would phone the local inspector, complain that evidence has potentially been lost and make an official complaint.

[COLOR=Blue]Will look into this, thanks.[/COLOR]

Out of curiosity have you tried putting your shoe/trainer against the marks to see how big they are? This may help you determine if it is kids or more likely an adult.
[COLOR=Blue]Prints from what I could tell looked quite big and chunky as in work boots type (stayed on the concrete to avoid mixing mine and destroying any worthwhile evidence.)[/COLOR]

Were any other bins done that evening?
[COLOR=Blue]Just ours[/COLOR].

is your bin in a vulnerable place? if not then it would add weight to the theory that you had been targetted.
[COLOR=Blue]Far from vulnerable, to access from front is a locked 5 foot gate, the rear a 4 foot wire fence, a border of young hawthorn/quickthorn then another 4 foot wire fence before the back yard where the bin was.
[/COLOR]

If you need anything else let me know
[COLOR=Blue]Thanks mate, appreciated[/COLOR]
banned#31
kippy
they got better cops in wales.


Seems that way! Like most things, it seems to be a lottery whether you get good service or not. Applies to most things inc NHS.

harlzter
Far from vulnerable, to access from front is a locked 5 foot gate, the rear a 4 foot wire fence, a border of young hawthorn/quickthorn then another 4 foot wire fence before the back yard where the bin was.


Then there can be no other explanation than a deliberate arson attack! (Assuming there were no low flying fireworks!) Thats an awful lot of trouble to go to, to set fire to a bin!
#32
Looks like a lot of good advice from ADZ there.
Whatever happens, my friend, stay in control and think carefully before you do anything. The neighbours sound like they should be the subject of one of those social documentaries you get on the TV. Keep an eye and keep safe. Have you got a neighbourhood watch or some other community thing? You need CCTV on that strip really. There must be someone at the council you can talk to. Talk to literally anyone who might help, but insist that the police follow up.

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