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I'd like your view on...

jonnyq Avatar
suspended9y, 10m agoPosted 9 years, 10 months ago
I checked my local paper online (see link below) and found this story and read the comments. I was interested to see what you guys think about the story itself and the comments.

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.1214490.0.pupil_loses_veil_case.php
jonnyq Avatar
suspended9y, 10m agoPosted 9 years, 10 months ago
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#1
Ban the veil in public.
They've banned it France and they've signed up to the same human rights convention as us and the ban is legal, so do it here.
I personally think that if you remove a veil and send it to the sun you get awarded 5000 nectar points, it'll be great fun.
#2
Ban all religious expression of any kind, religion has no public place in secular society.
If France can ban most forms of it and have a 20% muslim population so can we.... but hang on we participated, helped and condoned the killing of 600,000 Iraqi's so that might be a bit harder to achieve since we need to appease muslims because of that retarded bloody war. /rant
#3
It is a persons right to wear a veil IMO. I can see the safety risks as cctv cameras etc can not be used if a veil wearer commits a crime, but in somewhere for example a school where her identity is always known even when veiled I see no point in forcing her to abandon her religious beliefs, her veil does not harm anyone neither is it a danger to herself.
#4
No one's pushed past the line here, but here's a pre-emptive warning:

Keep this thread civil. No posts against any race or religion, and most importantly, against each other.

Stay civil, calm and polite and the thread and your comments will remain. During political discussions listen to the moderator's wishes at all times.
#5
jonnyq
I just wanted to hear some views, I'm not encouraging anyone to be racist or anything.


I don't think anyone is accusing you of encouraging that, I think the team are making it known that the thread will be carefully watched to make sure we all play nicely.

They'd post the same if it was any topic to do with race, religion, sexuality or other much debated issues I assume. :)
#6
I find this rather hard to believe:-
"All she wants is to be able to practice her deeply held beliefs whilst getting on with her daily life.

The girl is only 12.

I think the Judge and School made the right decision.
#7
pawsntails
I don't think anyone is accusing you of encouraging that, I think the team are making it known that the thread will be carefully watched to make sure we all play nicely.

They'd post the same if it was any topic to do with race, religion, sexuality or other much debated issues I assume. :)

Agreed.
You have to be very careful when discussing 'sensitive' issues on a Public Forum.
#8
dinosteveus
I find this rather hard to believe:-

The girl is only 12.

I think the Judge and School made the right decision.


I think most 12 year olds know what they want (or at least think they know) so I believe this is her choice, wether her mind will change as she gets older is different. I also have no doubt that she got her beliefs from her parents, but without actually meeting her I'd take a guess that she does want to wear it, she probably sees it as part of her identity. (yet again this is all assumption since i don't know her)

I can;t believe they are refusing to send her to another school that will accept the veil though, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong she is missing out on her education and although a change in schools can be upsetting shes mising out on potential possitive interaction with children her own age.
#9
I was always for religious groups and letting them do what they want but after the last few years things have changed. They have changed in a big way.

It is getting to the point where people who believe in a certain religious ethnic are now starting to do what we (English born and bread) can and can not do in our own country.

Now that is wrong, that is well and truly out of order, yes come over here and live your life, do what you feel is right within your own religion but DO NOT LET IT INTERFERE WITH THE EVERYDAY RUNNING OF THIS COUNTRY. This is our country and at the end of the day you MUST abide by our laws!!!

After all when we travel to your countries we have to abide by your laws.

If our law states you can't wear a Veil under certain circumstances then they simply can't be worn.

Let the Government sort this one out, I just hope they come up with the correct solution as to not offend the Muslim community yet give them a little slack on their beliefs.
#10
It is up to the Parents to 'Teach' and Guide' a Child. How can a 12 Year old make her own mind up on such an important issue such as religion at such a young age? I think there may have been too much influence from the Parents.
Anyway, 'Hoodies' are banned from a lot of Towns Shops etc. How is this any different?
#11
dinosteveus
It is up to the Parents to 'Teach' and Guide' a Child. How can a 12 Year old make her own mind up on such an important issue such as religion at such a young age? I think there may have been too much influence from the Parents.
Anyway, 'Hoodies' are banned from a lot of Towns Shops etc. How is this any different?



Well I do agree with banning it in certain places for safety, but like i said in school even wearing the veil they know her identity.

In shopping centres I agree with bans as if someone wears a veil their identity is hidden, just like a hoodie hides someones identity. O/T I do hate how some have given hoodies such a bad name though. *hugs her crow hoodie*
#12
beerman1
I was always for religious groups and letting them do what they want but after the last few years things have changed. They have changed in a big way.

It is getting to the point where people who believe in a certain religious ethnic are now starting to do what we (English born and bread) can and can not do in our own country.

Now that is wrong, that is well and truly out of order, yes come over here and live your life, do what you feel is right within your own religion but DO NOT LET IT INTERFERE WITH THE EVERYDAY RUNNING OF THIS COUNTRY. This is our country and at the end of the day you MUST abide by our laws!!!

After all when we travel to your countries we have to abide by your laws.

If our law states you can't wear a Veil under certain circumstances then they simply can't be worn.

Let the Government sort this one out, I just hope they come up with the correct solution as to not offend the Muslim community yet give them a little slack on their beliefs.


I agree.

When I served in Germany, a British Parent smacked his child on the leg for messing about in a big Supermarket called Alkof, a German Lady came up to him and said "In Germany we do not smack Children", this chap said "In England we do not kill Jews". In 48 hours he and his Family had been posted back to the UK.
The point I'm making is, you have to abide by that Countries rules.
#13
I maybe wrong but I don't think he was posted back for smacking the child. (its not funny but i admit i did laugh when i read your post)
#14
pawsntails
Well I do agree with banning it in certain places for safety, but like i said in school even wearing the veil they know her identity.

Maybe they will know her identity.
Teachers can tell a lot by the child's facial expression, hide most of the face and it's hard to really tell if the child understands the lesson or if they are having problems.
#15
Well then it would be upto the child to seek help. I know its not always easy admiting your confused especially if everyone else gets it, but even then you could always ask for help outside of class.
#16
pawsntails
I maybe wrong but I don't think he was posted back for smacking the child. (its not funny but i admit i did laugh when i read your post)

He was posted back for saying what he said to the German Lady.
I know it was wrong, but she should not have said anything, but he should not have smacked his kid in public. We are told about the 'local' customs, do's and don'ts when you get posted to a 'new' Country.
#17
pawsntails
Well then it would be upto the child to seek help. I know its not always easy admiting your confused especially if everyone else gets it, but even then you could always ask for help outside of class.

I don't know many Children that would 'ask' for help at School, do you?
They are already the 'minority' in School, without adding more attention to themselves by asking the Teacher for extra help.
#18
I do know a lot of children who would ask for help and I was one of them, but then again that will most likely depend on the general atmosphere of a school.
#19
dinosteveus
I agree.

When I served in Germany, a British Parent smacked his child on the leg for messing about in a big Supermarket called Alkof, a German Lady came up to him and said "In Germany we do not smack Children", this chap said "In England we do not kill Jews". In 48 hours he and his Family had been posted back to the UK.
The point I'm making is, you have to abide by that Countries rules.


Dino whereabouts In BFG where you based and when? Top country cringed hwn I got my posting order, didn't wanna leave when I did get there.
#20
Paddy_o_furniture
Dino whereabouts In BFG where you based and when? Top country cringed hwn I got my posting order, didn't wanna leave when I did get there.

Laarbruch, Near the Dutch Boarder.
Early 90's for just under 4 years.

I loved every minute of it :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :-D apart from the Detachment to the Falklands half way through. :x :x :x
#21
Lovely country ain't it? What Corps/Regt where you? I'm guessing Signals
#22
Paddy_o_furniture
Lovely country ain't it? What Corps/Regt where you? I'm guessing Signals

Excellent Country.
Hard getting used to the recycling, everything was recycled. I had about 8 recycle bins in my Garden :giggle: I travelled all over Europe and IMO Germany was the cleanest.

RAF, Chef :thumbsup: :-D :-D :-D
#23
Couldn't of been more wrong with my guess (you crab), Germany very clean, beer was well cheap too. As was most stuff as you could claim the tax back. I'll leave it there like cos taking this post well off topic.
#24
How are you supposed to teach a child with a big black thing over their face? Facial communication is a big thing in our schools. They must abide by the heads rules. Either take it off or leave the school.

I am not racist in any way, I just believe in what is right and what is wrong and what they are fighting for is completely wrong. Yes wear it in your own time to show your commitment to your religious beliefs, but when it comes down to the laws of the land then you have to do as your told.

And in the case the head of the school is the law so they must abide by the rules.
#25
Paddy_o_furniture
Couldn't of been more wrong with my guess (you crab), Germany very clean, beer was well cheap too. As was most stuff as you could claim the tax back. I'll leave it there like cos taking this post well off topic.

Ummmmm, Pongo :?: :giggle:
Where were you Stationed? Paderborn or Osnabruck?

Anyway, It's best off topic I think. Unless anybody minds.:roll:
#26
Spent time in paderborn/sennelager, but permanent base was munster. I never understood the term crab care to enlighten me? Something to do with walking sideways I think??? Love Pongo, wherever the army goes pong goes. LOL
#27
Paddy_o_furniture
Spent time in paderborn/sennelager, but permanent base was munster. I never understood the term crab care to enlighten me? Something to do with walking sideways I think??? Love Pongo, wherever the army goes pong goes. LOL

The RAF don't move forward in Battles, they just move sideways :whistling: :whistling: Safest way to go:giggle:
I did volunteer for the Gulf when it started, but all I got was a det to Lyneham :x then when I complained I went to Brize Norton. :giggle: :giggle:
#28
The RAF go to battles? I thought they just took us home on our R&R (usually a couple days late)always managed to be on time on the way back to theatre thou.
#29
Paddy_o_furniture
The RAF go to battles? I thought they just took us home on our R&R (usually a couple days late)always manged to be on time on the eay back to theatre thou.

I'll have you know, I was involved in defending Mount Kent (Falklands) against the Gurkhas (?) once. :whistling: It was only an exercise though :giggle: :giggle: We lost big time, even with you guys helping :whistling: :whistling:
#30
[SIZE=2][COLOR=royalblue]This is the United Kingdom, where the Head of State is the Queen, she is also the head of the Religious body in this Country- The Church of England. The LAW is based on both the Church and the Countries position in Western Europe, which broadly follows that of the Roman Catholic Church, headed by the Pope, in Italy.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#4169e1]The main language spoken in the United Kingdom is English, although there are other dialects spoken in other parts of the Country (Welsh, Gaelic & Irish)[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#4169e1]Over the history of time several Countries/Leaders/Warlords have tried without success, to seize the Nation and change the way the Country is run. These have included the Danes, the Norse, the French & the Germans along with a few more, but each one has never overcome what the United kingdom has stood for. [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#4169e1]Over the years many people have come from their own Countries to live and work here, most of them have come from Countries associated with the Common Wealth. These people have included the Blacks from the Caribbean, the Blacks & Whites from South Africa, the Whites from Ireland, Canada, Australia & New Zealand to name a few. Although resented by some most got on with living and working in harmony with their neighbours. Never wanting to impose themselves or their background on the Country that graciously accepted them, they have blended in with the way & life of the English Gentleman and his good Wife.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#4169e1]I accept this to be the way most Countries accept migrants and that the new migrants try and blend in with their new surroundings in a way that does not cause harm & distress to the locals. New comers who try and change things quickly find themselves alienated from the Landowners and locals who club together to defend their Church & Head.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#4169e1]The United Kingdom is no 53rd State, nor is it an Arab Country but a highly successful Western European Country, where technology, trust and partnerships have developed the UK to a highly regarded World player in every field, be it Sport, Religion, News, Technology or Monetary Policies, the UK is regarded as one of the most aspiring Countries to live in.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#4169e1]For other people to come here now and try and change the way things have been for several thousand years and refuse to integrate into Society & Life is wrong. There are ways to do this on a small Parochial basis in which nobody minds, as long as they keep themselves to themselves, an example would be the Sikhs who have built their own Houses of Worship as they have felt their needs were not accommodated within the structure of the Church of England. They have their own events, their own schools and their own shops and welcome anyone into their lives. Anyone can enter their Mosques (and feel the need to show respect and remove their shoes upon entry), and so I believe can feast themselves on the abundance of food within, without a word said. This is PARTNERSHIP, this is living with your neighbour, this is integration. Not one culture bearing down on another, but one respecting ones life.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#4169e1]Therefore I think it is wrong to put a 'veiled' Muslim girl into a Western school and expect that school to change their beliefs and ways, that have been there for thousands of years, because the outsider wanted change. I can never see this accommodation happening as it will be a clash of Cultures where the majority are afraid of the stranger. This girl should have been found a Muslim school, where she could practise her beliefs and religion to the letter of her families upbringing, otherwise she should be made to abide with the laws laid down by the school, the Government and the Church.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
#31
I'm atheist :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
#32
my main problem lies,I suppose,with the politicising of religious practices,and this is made even more unpalatable when children are brought into the equation also.
#33
Argh I seem to be the only one thinking she should be allowed it in class, however this may seem totally irrelevant etc but... (and I'll say I went to a CofE school and some of my friends and rels are C of E christians so I am not going against the branch of faith) Wasn't the C of E originally started by someone who didn't like the rules set on him because of the countries faith, therefore changing it and starting a whole new branch to suit him and making the country follow him. England has not always had the Church of England faith it was created as someone (aka Henry the 8th) refused to follow the main religions rules.

Therefore isn't society about change? I am not saying it is right to go to a country and then try and change the rules, but surely give and take would be better.
#34
muckypup
my main problem lies,I suppose,with the politicising of religious practices,and this is made even more unpalatable when children are brought into the equation also.

Agreed. :thumbsup:
#35
dinosteveus
I'm atheist :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D



Me to :giggle:
#36
pawsntails
Me to :giggle:

Nice one :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I think we are the only two :-(
#37
lol, I love the fact we've both been debating this for how many posts and neither of us is religious

btw did you know yoga is a cult :S
#38
pawsntails
lol, I love the fact we've both been debating this for how many posts and neither of us is religious


Not debating really, no point. Our opinions mean nothing in the 'real' world :roll:



pawsntails
btw did you know yoga is a cult :S

No I didn't, thanks for enlightening me. I thought it was some kind of illness :roll: :giggle:
#39
right I'm off to bed, and when I come back I want some interesting reading! y'all hear? good!

Yeah read about the yoga thing in some cult article. Best cult *cough*collective*cough* has to be Danny Wallaces Karma Army though.
#40
I went to an all girls C of E school,nothing heavy,unlike the catholic schools(fire and brimstone!!) and probably consider myself Christian(confirmation and all that).

However I find that throughout my adult years I question religion(s) more and more.I probably consider myself more an agnostic now which i suppose is a bit of a cop out.The problem I have is that,with the advent of science,religion seems kind of ridiculous,but,without it where would society be and more importantly would we have got where we are today without it.

The principles of living a 'Christian' life are good ones,but of course you do not have to believe in God and the rest to do so.

Live your life how you wish and pray to whom you wish so long as it does not impact on others,and do so within the laws of the society you inhabit.

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