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integration in society

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for anyone who thinks we live in a wonderful integrated society. Dame Louise Casey's year long study. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/04/social-integration-louise-casey-uk-report-cond… Read More
shadey12 Avatar
5m, 2w agoPosted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
for anyone who thinks we live in a wonderful integrated society.

Dame Louise Casey's year long study.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/04/social-integration-louise-casey-uk-report-condemns-failings
shadey12 Avatar
5m, 2w agoPosted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Top Comments

(5)
9 Likes
Treboeth
Absolute fortune (probably) spent on finding out something many already knew.


a lot of people do know,
I would guess there are a lot who have no idea how segregated some parts of society are.
9 Likes
I don't think anyone believes society is perfect, nor that any society throughout history has been.

It's a good thing that we examine ourselves as a society to find our flaws, but the next step must be to try to fix them. Some simply want to find something to moan about in order to cover their own deficiencies but there are a great many of us who want to improve it and the answer is the same as it has always been - education.

We as a country need a massive commitment to broadening people's horizons and that means huge investment in schools, but also a new type of education. Personally I'd do away with every Faith school in the country first. Then we go about giving every child a world class education tailored to their individual skills.

That way we mount the strongest attack on intolerance, ignorance and inequality this world has ever seen.

Edited By: HotEnglishAndWelshDeals on Dec 05, 2016 09:51
9 Likes
Nottinghamshire Police recently tweeted and advert
"Notts Police are recruiting PCs Jan 2017. If you're from a BME/LGBT+ group and want to join us, call or text Jo: 07595008494 for more info."
And there was uproar but no racial discrimination
Now if Nottinghamshire Police had just tweeted
"Notts Police are recruiting PCs Jan 2017. If you're white and want to join us, call or text Jo: 07595008494 for more info."
They'd be classed as racist
WTF
7 Likes
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
6 Likes
Absolute fortune (probably) spent on finding out something many already knew.

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6 Likes #1
Absolute fortune (probably) spent on finding out something many already knew.
1 Like #2
everything is fine, whats the worst that could happen?
#3
davewave
everything is fine, whats the worst that could happen?

I might just break Godwin's Law but.....Another Hitler maybe?
1 Like #4
what a waste of a year
#5
splatsplatsplat
davewave
everything is fine, whats the worst that could happen?
I might just break Godwin's Law but.....Another Hitler maybe?
What happens to all those committed to IS after it falls apart?
#6
davewave
splatsplatsplat
davewave
everything is fine, whats the worst that could happen?
I might just break Godwin's Law but.....Another Hitler maybe?
What happens to all those committed to IS after it falls apart?
What a load of twaddle...
#7
Adam786123
davewave
splatsplatsplat
davewave
everything is fine, whats the worst that could happen?
I might just break Godwin's Law but.....Another Hitler maybe?
What happens to all those committed to IS after it falls apart?
What a load of twaddle...
Yes.
1 Like #8
You can see the media's right wing reporting...no news channel have reported this....

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/muslims-british-report-policy-exchange-islam-values-really-think-released-results-surprising-a7454761.html

Edited By: Adam786123 on Dec 05, 2016 09:13
9 Likes #9
Treboeth
Absolute fortune (probably) spent on finding out something many already knew.


a lot of people do know,
I would guess there are a lot who have no idea how segregated some parts of society are.
#10
Adam786123
Maybe very few people are interested?
7 Likes #11
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
9 Likes #12
I don't think anyone believes society is perfect, nor that any society throughout history has been.

It's a good thing that we examine ourselves as a society to find our flaws, but the next step must be to try to fix them. Some simply want to find something to moan about in order to cover their own deficiencies but there are a great many of us who want to improve it and the answer is the same as it has always been - education.

We as a country need a massive commitment to broadening people's horizons and that means huge investment in schools, but also a new type of education. Personally I'd do away with every Faith school in the country first. Then we go about giving every child a world class education tailored to their individual skills.

That way we mount the strongest attack on intolerance, ignorance and inequality this world has ever seen.

Edited By: HotEnglishAndWelshDeals on Dec 05, 2016 09:51
2 Likes #13
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.

We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
#14
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.

Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
4 Likes #15
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.

How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.
#16
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.

Yes, yes I understand how you want to embrace some hopeless narrative about the insurmountable problem of Islam.

Truth is that European history, our own history is one of enlightenment. Look at that word carefully. See the word 'light' in it? Education is the light that you shine on ignorance to show it for what it really is.

You can call me naive but I have faith in western liberal values or whatever you want to call it, to cast too bright a light on these repressive ideologies that live in the darkness of oppression and ignorance.

What is your alternative idea? Curl up in the foetal position and give up?
#17
dtovey89
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.

Well tolerance,democracy equality and respect are against the basic teachings, there is no tolerance of other faiths but subjugation.There is no equality either for women ,non Muslims,gays and apostates. You cannot change that.

Edited By: airfix on Dec 05, 2016 10:12
4 Likes #18
airfix
dtovey89
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.
Well tolerance,democracy equality and respect are against the basic teachings, there is no tolerance of other faiths but subjugation.There is no equality under for women ,non Muslims,gays and apostates. You cannot change that.

Fair enough. If people aren't willing to balance faith with a British identity then I don't want them here either.
#19
airfix
dtovey89
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.
Well tolerance,democracy equality and respect are against the basic teachings, there is no tolerance of other faiths but subjugation.There is no equality under for women ,non Muslims,gays and apostates. You cannot change that.

Such hopelessness is the antithesis of what I was raised to believe British values were about. We are a country who has always strived to be better, to look further.

Airfix, I honk maybe you are he type of person who needs lessons in British culture so you can be better integrated into society. Pop along to your local library and go to the British History section.

Take notes.
1 Like #20
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
airfix
dtovey89
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.
Well tolerance,democracy equality and respect are against the basic teachings, there is no tolerance of other faiths but subjugation.There is no equality under for women ,non Muslims,gays and apostates. You cannot change that.
Such hopelessness is the antithesis of what I was raised to believe British values were about. We are a country who has always strived to be better, to look further.
Airfix, I honk maybe you are he type of person who needs lessons in British culture so you can be better integrated into society. Pop along to your local library and go to the British History section.
Take notes.

I'm not sure invading countries under the guise of the Empire and suppressing all attempts of social change (until the early 20th Century) would be deemed tolerant.
#21
I saw a piece on the news, interviewing some Asian guys in Oldham. They said they wanted to live in a segregated manner. No amount of inclusion policies are going to change what someone actually wants. They said that they thought they would be attacked if they left their area. Why would anyone want to live like that?
#22
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
airfix
dtovey89
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.
Well tolerance,democracy equality and respect are against the basic teachings, there is no tolerance of other faiths but subjugation.There is no equality under for women ,non Muslims,gays and apostates. You cannot change that.
Such hopelessness is the antithesis of what I was raised to believe British values were about. We are a country who has always strived to be better, to look further.
Airfix, I honk maybe you are he type of person who needs lessons in British culture so you can be better integrated into society. Pop along to your local library and go to the British History section.
Take notes.
I'm not sure invading countries under the guise of the Empire and suppressing all attempts of social change (until the early 20th Century) would be deemed tolerant.

It's really not as simple as that. Yes we colonised and brutalised but we also advanced civilisations centuries faster than they would have otherwise.

It's impossible to separate what we did, a lot of which was terrible but not all by any means, from what it was that enabled us to do it.


NottinghamSmiler
I saw a piece on the news, interviewing some Asian guys in Oldham. They said they wanted to live in a segregated manner. No amount of inclusion policies are going to change what someone actually wants. They said that they thought they would be attacked if they left their area. Why would anyone want to live like that?

Fear. It's a powerful emotion and that generation might be a lost cause because integration takes decades, if not centuries.
1 Like #23
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
I don't think anyone believes society is perfect, nor that any society throughout history has been.

It's a good thing that we examine ourselves as a society to find our flaws, but the next step must be to try to fix them. Some simply want to find something to moan about in order to cover their own deficiencies but there are a great many of us who want to improve it and the answer is the same as it has always been - education.

We as a country need a massive commitment to broadening people's horizons and that means huge investment in schools, but also a new type of education. Personally I'd do away with every Faith school in the country first. Then we go about giving every child a world class education tailored to their individual skills.

That way we mount the strongest attack on intolerance, ignorance and inequality this world has ever seen.


It's a grand ideal but would not address the issue of non school based education.

For this to work would you also shutdown the churches, mosques, synagogues, Buddhist temples, prayer meetings of any faith, free speech etc etc?

I don't have an answer. Intolerance needs to be stopped at every level and my fear is that human nature won't allow that. I believe the best we can manage is to stop the fuelling of these issues by making our society fairer for all.
#24
colin4man
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
I don't think anyone believes society is perfect, nor that any society throughout history has been.
It's a good thing that we examine ourselves as a society to find our flaws, but the next step must be to try to fix them. Some simply want to find something to moan about in order to cover their own deficiencies but there are a great many of us who want to improve it and the answer is the same as it has always been - education.
We as a country need a massive commitment to broadening people's horizons and that means huge investment in schools, but also a new type of education. Personally I'd do away with every Faith school in the country first. Then we go about giving every child a world class education tailored to their individual skills.
That way we mount the strongest attack on intolerance, ignorance and inequality this world has ever seen.
It's a grand ideal but would not address the issue of non school based education.
For this to work would you also shutdown the churches, mosques, synagogues, Buddhist temples, prayer meetings of any faith etc etc?
I don't have an answer. Intolerance needs to be stopped at every level and my fear is that human nature won't allow that. I believe the best we can manage is to stop the fuelling of these issues by making our society fairer for all.

Education provides people with the tools to question the 'truths' they're presented with.

People keep referring to human nature as an impediment to enlightenment, as if such a notion makes them insightful but it does the opposite.

We as a race have consistently moved forwards and even when there have been seemingly insurmountable obstacles in the way we've overcome them.

What you and people like you represent isn't some enlightened view of humanity but the despondence and hoplessness that holds humanity back.

That's not meant to be an insult. I simply think we as a race are led by our virtues though.

As you say, you don't have an answer. Education is always the answer.

Edited By: HotEnglishAndWelshDeals on Dec 05, 2016 10:33
2 Likes #25
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
airfix
dtovey89
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.
Well tolerance,democracy equality and respect are against the basic teachings, there is no tolerance of other faiths but subjugation.There is no equality under for women ,non Muslims,gays and apostates. You cannot change that.
Such hopelessness is the antithesis of what I was raised to believe British values were about. We are a country who has always strived to be better, to look further.
Airfix, I honk maybe you are he type of person who needs lessons in British culture so you can be better integrated into society. Pop along to your local library and go to the British History section.
Take notes.
I'm not sure invading countries under the guise of the Empire and suppressing all attempts of social change (until the early 20th Century) would be deemed tolerant.
It's really not as simple as that. Yes we colonised and brutalised but we also advanced civilisations centuries faster than they would have otherwise.
It's impossible to separate what we did, a lot of which was terrible but not all by any means, from what it was that enabled us to do it.

I don't believe the pros outweigh the cons.
#26
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
airfix
dtovey89
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.
Well tolerance,democracy equality and respect are against the basic teachings, there is no tolerance of other faiths but subjugation.There is no equality under for women ,non Muslims,gays and apostates. You cannot change that.
Such hopelessness is the antithesis of what I was raised to believe British values were about. We are a country who has always strived to be better, to look further.
Airfix, I honk maybe you are he type of person who needs lessons in British culture so you can be better integrated into society. Pop along to your local library and go to the British History section.
Take notes.
I'm not sure invading countries under the guise of the Empire and suppressing all attempts of social change (until the early 20th Century) would be deemed tolerant.
It's really not as simple as that. Yes we colonised and brutalised but we also advanced civilisations centuries faster than they would have otherwise.
It's impossible to separate what we did, a lot of which was terrible but not all by any means, from what it was that enabled us to do it.
I don't believe the pros outweigh the cons.

Human history is very rarely a binary thing. If you want to reduce things to a list of good or bad then start a thread about Father Christmas.
#27
hum, what's the gist of the report? muslims should go to the pub?
2 Likes #28
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
colin4man
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
I don't think anyone believes society is perfect, nor that any society throughout history has been.
It's a good thing that we examine ourselves as a society to find our flaws, but the next step must be to try to fix them. Some simply want to find something to moan about in order to cover their own deficiencies but there are a great many of us who want to improve it and the answer is the same as it has always been - education.
We as a country need a massive commitment to broadening people's horizons and that means huge investment in schools, but also a new type of education. Personally I'd do away with every Faith school in the country first. Then we go about giving every child a world class education tailored to their individual skills.
That way we mount the strongest attack on intolerance, ignorance and inequality this world has ever seen.
It's a grand ideal but would not address the issue of non school based education.
For this to work would you also shutdown the churches, mosques, synagogues, Buddhist temples, prayer meetings of any faith etc etc?
I don't have an answer. Intolerance needs to be stopped at every level and my fear is that human nature won't allow that. I believe the best we can manage is to stop the fuelling of these issues by making our society fairer for all.

Education provides people with the tools to question the 'truths' they're presented with.

People keep referring to human nature as an impediment to enlightenment, as if such a notion makes them insightful but it does the opposite.

We as a race have consistently moved forwards and even when there have been seemingly insurmountable obstacles in the way we've overcome them.

What you and people like you represent isn't some enlightened view of humanity but the despondence and hoplessness that holds humanity back.

That's not meant to be an insult. I simply think we as a race are led by our virtues though.

As you say, you don't have an answer. Education is always the answer.


If you look back through history I think you'll find that enlightenment usually comes in the aftermath of bloody conflict. I for one do not want my loved ones living through that. Sorting out the economic discrepancies and giving more people hope is, in my opinion, a quicker route to harmony.
#29
redmouse2
hum, what's the gist of the report? muslims should go to the pub?


no
#30
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
airfix
dtovey89
airfix
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.
Well tolerance,democracy equality and respect are against the basic teachings, there is no tolerance of other faiths but subjugation.There is no equality under for women ,non Muslims,gays and apostates. You cannot change that.
Such hopelessness is the antithesis of what I was raised to believe British values were about. We are a country who has always strived to be better, to look further.
Airfix, I honk maybe you are he type of person who needs lessons in British culture so you can be better integrated into society. Pop along to your local library and go to the British History section.
Take notes.
I'm not sure invading countries under the guise of the Empire and suppressing all attempts of social change (until the early 20th Century) would be deemed tolerant.
It's really not as simple as that. Yes we colonised and brutalised but we also advanced civilisations centuries faster than they would have otherwise.
It's impossible to separate what we did, a lot of which was terrible but not all by any means, from what it was that enabled us to do it.
I don't believe the pros outweigh the cons.
Human history is very rarely a binary thing. If you want to reduce things to a list of good or bad then start a thread about Father Christmas.

Britain is not an example to use for "advancing" civilisations.
Who defines what "advancing" means? It's most definitely not you and a plethora of Historians would disagree with you and rightfully claim Britain single handily ruined many civilisations.
#31
colin4man
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
colin4man
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I don't think anyone believes society is perfect, nor that any society throughout history has been.
It's a good thing that we examine ourselves as a society to find our flaws, but the next step must be to try to fix them. Some simply want to find something to moan about in order to cover their own deficiencies but there are a great many of us who want to improve it and the answer is the same as it has always been - education.
We as a country need a massive commitment to broadening people's horizons and that means huge investment in schools, but also a new type of education. Personally I'd do away with every Faith school in the country first. Then we go about giving every child a world class education tailored to their individual skills.
That way we mount the strongest attack on intolerance, ignorance and inequality this world has ever seen.
It's a grand ideal but would not address the issue of non school based education.
For this to work would you also shutdown the churches, mosques, synagogues, Buddhist temples, prayer meetings of any faith etc etc?
I don't have an answer. Intolerance needs to be stopped at every level and my fear is that human nature won't allow that. I believe the best we can manage is to stop the fuelling of these issues by making our society fairer for all.
Education provides people with the tools to question the 'truths' they're presented with.
People keep referring to human nature as an impediment to enlightenment, as if such a notion makes them insightful but it does the opposite.
We as a race have consistently moved forwards and even when there have been seemingly insurmountable obstacles in the way we've overcome them.
What you and people like you represent isn't some enlightened view of humanity but the despondence and hoplessness that holds humanity back.
That's not meant to be an insult. I simply think we as a race are led by our virtues though.
As you say, you don't have an answer. Education is always the answer.
If you look back through history I think you'll find that enlightenment usually comes in the aftermath of bloody conflict. I for one do not want my loved ones living through that. Sorting out the economic discrepancies and giving more people hope is, in my opinion, a quicker route to harmony.

But those economic discrepancies are yet another issue you've admitted you don't have a solution for.

The greatest social equaliser has and always will be education.

Human history has always moved forward, become more enlightened and more progressive in the face of those whom would stop that. But the greater threat is hopelessness, something you seem to be filled with.
#32
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
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airfix
dtovey89
airfix
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coys67
The sad fact of the matter is that most humans and indeed any other animal prefer to live with their own race/species/type, agreed their are some that embrace multiculturalism but imo they are a small minority, the trouble though is how long before people on both sides of the divide start butting heads, most animals will rub along while there are plenty of resources for all, but when times start getting harder,things start looking differently.
I fear for the future of this country tbh,as the numbers of those that class themselves indigenous and those classed as immigrant equalise and land/space and services become stretched i can imagine a lot of conflict in the coming generations.
We are all members of the same human race. We need to educate people to start realising this.
Ordering people to ignore the teachings of their faith and adopt British values is doomed to failure and shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of the growing problem.
How is it doomed to failure? It's never happened before.
Faith schools (for all religions) need to be shut down.
Well tolerance,democracy equality and respect are against the basic teachings, there is no tolerance of other faiths but subjugation.There is no equality under for women ,non Muslims,gays and apostates. You cannot change that.
Such hopelessness is the antithesis of what I was raised to believe British values were about. We are a country who has always strived to be better, to look further.
Airfix, I honk maybe you are he type of person who needs lessons in British culture so you can be better integrated into society. Pop along to your local library and go to the British History section.
Take notes.
I'm not sure invading countries under the guise of the Empire and suppressing all attempts of social change (until the early 20th Century) would be deemed tolerant.
It's really not as simple as that. Yes we colonised and brutalised but we also advanced civilisations centuries faster than they would have otherwise.
It's impossible to separate what we did, a lot of which was terrible but not all by any means, from what it was that enabled us to do it.
I don't believe the pros outweigh the cons.
Human history is very rarely a binary thing. If you want to reduce things to a list of good or bad then start a thread about Father Christmas.
Britain is not an example to use for "advancing" civilisations.
Who defines what "advancing" means? It's most definitely not you and a plethora of Historians would disagree with you and rightfully claim Britain single handily ruined many civilisations.

Britain butchered whole tribes, whole regions and fundamentally upended whole civilisations. We also brought with us science, medicine, language, culture, art and politics so it's not as easy as saying all we delivered was misery.

That's a narrative in modern British culture I'm not particularly keen on, where we allow the bad (by modern standards) to overshadow all of the good. It's a simplistic way of viewing the world.
2 Likes #33
60 years ago thousands of immigrants came and they integrated just fine

Questions whether it's bigger masses or just different cultures that cannot or will not integrate but I suppose it's the real white English person who will get the blame and "You are racist" finger pointed at.

Then again 60 years ago there was respect and hard work and proper governance (when you broke the law you got punished) - have we, as a nation, become too politically correct (soft)?

Edited By: philphil61 on Dec 05, 2016 10:58
1 Like #34
philphil61
60 years ago thousands of immigrants came and they integrated just fine
Questions whether it's bigger masses or just different cultures that cannot or will not integrate but I suppose it's the real white English person who will get the blame and "You are racist" finger pointed at.
Then again 60 years ago there was respect and hard work and proper governance (when you broke the law you got punished) - have we, as a nation, become too politically correct (soft)?

It's hypocritical nonsense like this that holds us back.

This false narrative that previous generations integrated without problems, this discussion of 'real white english' people or that political correctness is to blame.

Coming from Phil it's hypocrisy of the highest nature.
3 Likes #35
philphil61
60 years ago thousands of immigrants came and they integrated just fine
Questions whether it's bigger masses or just different cultures that cannot or will not integrate but I suppose it's the real white English person who will get the blame and "You are racist" finger pointed at.
Then again 60 years ago there was respect and hard work and proper governance (when you broke the law you got punished) - have we, as a nation, become too politically correct (soft)?

What do you mean by "real white British"?
Do you have to be white to be truly British? Or are you just a bigot?
5 Likes #36
philphil61
60 years ago thousands of immigrants came and they integrated just fine
Questions whether it's bigger masses or just different cultures that cannot or will not integrate but I suppose it's the real white English person who will get the blame and "You are racist" finger pointed at.
Then again 60 years ago there was respect and hard work and proper governance (when you broke the law you got punished) - have we, as a nation, become too politically correct (soft)?
Do you have any idea what Britain was like in the 50s, 60s and 70s?

Signs in windows saying 'Room to let - No Blacks'.
Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech.
Conservative MP Peter Griffiths winning the Smethwick seat after a campaign employing the slogan: "If you want a **** for a neighbour, vote Liberal or Labour".

And you say immigrants from the 50s integrated 'just fine. Do you not think before you churn out such rubbish?
2 Likes #37
RonChew
philphil61
60 years ago thousands of immigrants came and they integrated just fine
Questions whether it's bigger masses or just different cultures that cannot or will not integrate but I suppose it's the real white English person who will get the blame and "You are racist" finger pointed at.
Then again 60 years ago there was respect and hard work and proper governance (when you broke the law you got punished) - have we, as a nation, become too politically correct (soft)?
Do you have any idea what Britain was like in the 50s, 60s and 70s?
Signs in windows saying 'Room to let - No Blacks'.
Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech.
Conservative MP Peter Griffiths winning the Smethwick seat after a campaign employing the slogan: "If you want a **** for a neighbour, vote Liberal or Labour".
And you say immigrants from the 50s integrated 'just fine. Do you not think before you churn out such rubbish?

users like Shauneco and Phil want to take us back to times like this when apparently Britain was "Great".
Ridiculous isn't it?
1 Like #38
dtovey89
philphil61
60 years ago thousands of immigrants came and they integrated just fine
Questions whether it's bigger masses or just different cultures that cannot or will not integrate but I suppose it's the real white English person who will get the blame and "You are racist" finger pointed at.
Then again 60 years ago there was respect and hard work and proper governance (when you broke the law you got punished) - have we, as a nation, become too politically correct (soft)?
What do you mean by "real white British"?
Do you have to be white to be truly British? Or are you just a bigot?
Do you have to be white to be truly British?
No
How many black people get called racist (or bigot) when wanting the same as a white person?
How many Asian people get called racist (or bigot) when wanting the same as a white person?
Or is it only white people who can be racist/bigoted?

If you don't understand that then maybe you are just as racist/bigoted than what you call me (which just falls on deaf ears) but you just won't accept it.

I've said it in many similar threads - when equality is equality then this planet/country will be a better place
#39
Controversial but let's not forget that indigenous communities tend to move out when ethnic people move into a area.

Also the fact that people like to live in areas where they feel safer. If that means living in areas with people of the same ethnic make up, then what you going to do, force people to live together. Have a quota for areas?
9 Likes #40
Nottinghamshire Police recently tweeted and advert
"Notts Police are recruiting PCs Jan 2017. If you're from a BME/LGBT+ group and want to join us, call or text Jo: 07595008494 for more info."
And there was uproar but no racial discrimination
Now if Nottinghamshire Police had just tweeted
"Notts Police are recruiting PCs Jan 2017. If you're white and want to join us, call or text Jo: 07595008494 for more info."
They'd be classed as racist
WTF

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