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Is an AppleMac worth the extra money?

Scribbles Avatar
9y, 6m agoPosted 9 years, 6 months ago
OK, lets look what we have ...

A laptop that looks like a giant iPod ...
Outdated components dressed up as being better than what they are ...
A price tag that matches a top end Windows laptop/box ...
An inferior software catalogue ...
A varient of the BSD, open source, OS, that will only run on Apple's own proprietry hardware ...
Overpriced upgrades ...
It 'just works' ...

I would hope it DOES work. I'm pretty sure that you could buy a top spec Windows laptop that 'just works' for the same price as a Mac, with a couple of gig of RAM, with a DVD burner, with a faster processor, with better software, with appropriately priced upgrade options, etc, etc ... :roll:
Let's face it, a Mac is all about style over substance.

Tell me i'm wrong, and please explain why?
Scribbles Avatar
9y, 6m agoPosted 9 years, 6 months ago
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#1
I know a few people who are in love with Macs and never used one! My advice is, actually use one for a day and see if you like it, as they're a lot more expensive and then you have software issues etc.
#2
Scribbles
OK, lets look what we have ...

A laptop that looks like a giant iPod ...
Outdated components dressed up as being better than what they are ...
A price tag that matches a top end Windows laptop/box ...
An inferior software catalogue ...
A varient of the BSD, open source, OS, that will only run on Apple's own proprietry hardware ...
Overpriced upgrades ...
It 'just works' ...

I would hope it DOES work. I'm pretty sure that you could buy a top spec Windows laptop that 'just works' for the same price as a Mac, with a couple of gig of RAM, with a DVD burner, with a faster processor, with better software, with appropriately priced upgrade options, etc, etc ... :roll:
Let's face it, a Mac is all about style over substance.

Tell me i'm wrong, and please explain why?

:roll: I use mac, pcs, and unix/linux workstations. If it does what you want then it's worth the money.

I don't know where you get the 'outdated components' idea from? last I heard core 2 duo, wireless-n, sata etc etc is still very much current technology!

there's no denying you can get a dell lappy for cheaper but the difference in quality and integration is the big issue as far as I'm concerned plus Apple laptops does have a lot of innovative touches that aren't found on other mainstream options.

as for software I've never had a problem.

anyway there's no point in trying to 'educate' you as you are totally entrenched in your view point judging by the trolling nature of your posts! :-D
#3
I use a Mac for work and a PC for play - Surely that directly contradicts Apple's Mark vs. Jeremy ad campaign?
#4
Trolling? Nah, just trying to stir up some lively debate :p
As for outdated components, take a look at the MacMini at £399 ...

In the Box

Mac mini
Apple Remote
Power cord
Install/restore DVDs
Printed and electronic documentation

Hmmm, where's the mouse? The keyboard? A basic monitor?

Processor and memory

1.66GHz Intel Core Duo processor
512MB of 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
Intel GMA950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory

60GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA HDD

For £400, i'd be looking for a screen, a mouse, a keyboard and a little bit more than 64mb of shared graphics memory :roll:

It's the 'entry level' Mac, agreed, but I could buy a lot more for £400 if I was prepared to go for a Windows PC. I couldn't be bothered to do the other models, but the same 'undercutting' exists in the specs on all bar the most expensive of their machines. All macs, apart from the higher end models, are designed to need upgrading within a year. That is the business model Apple uses. Give the customer enough, but only just enough. They want you to return to the Apple shop to purchase the nice shiny new models when they are released.
#5
Ah but you're missing the Mac selling point. If you design a lot then a Mac is probably better for you. If you just go on websites and use MSN, then get a PC:thumbsup:
#6
Koopa
Ah but you're missing the Mac selling point. If you design a lot then a Mac is probably better for you. If you just go on websites and use MSN, then get a PC:thumbsup:


I'll agree with that. I don't doubt that Macs have their own niche market. In which case, that pretty much negates my need for a Mac. I do some graphics manipulation, some surfing, some word processing and even virtualization on my 15.4" W/S P4 3.3gHz laptop. I've had it for nearly two years and it is STILL Vista Ultimate compliant. It cost me £820ish.
Show me a two year old Mac laptop at that price point that would still be in the game and have a big screen and i'll buy it. Truth told, i'd have to spend £1300+ to get that equivilent Mac.
#7
There's an interesting PC v Mac article in the current edition of PC Pro magazine.

I'm a firm PCer because I like the choice of software, freeware, games and tinkering. I do admire Macs clean design and hate the one button mouse. I'm not into Photoshop or manipulating media and see no point in paying a premium (because I'm a HUKDer!). At the end of the day there's too many unfair truths and untruths about PCs and Macs.

My favourite illustration of premium technology is my colleague who owns a £2,000 Canon DSLR. Does he Photoshop etc? No. He takes pictures, takes the card out and develops the card in Boots. Seems a waste but he's happy.
#8
I don't really understand why people suddenly want a Mac just because 'it looks cool'. It's a computer not an ornament:)
#9
I regularly utter both 'Stupid Mac' and 'Stupid PC' throughout the day. Each has its foibles :)

As a designer though, one highlight of the Mac is that I can shift files around while they're in use, whilst a PC would tell me to sod off. I also find juggling multiple applications a lot easier on the Mac.
#10
Me I'm a PC man, but I can certainly see the appeal of Mac's.

To compare the spec of a Mac running OS-X to that of a PC running Windows is extremely unfair on the Mac. The Mac will out perform the Windows machine every time because the OS and software is specifically designed and optimised to run on that hardware and is not a one size fits all monstrosity like Windows!

There really is only one legitimate reason to argue for Windows PC's superiority over Mac's (or Linux PC's for that matter) and that is games, in every other respect they are as good as or better than Windows PC's.

The whole out of date in 5mins thing is doesn't hold much water either, to a Windows user it may seem that way as we are used to having to upgrade every few years to keep up and be able to run the latest software or games. But to a Mac user it still does everything you brought it for, it will still run the latest software, it will still run the latest version of OS-X, it just wont be as quick as the newest Macs. Ask a Mac user how often they upgrade their hardware and I bet it's much less than you think (unless of course they're a must have the newest tech kind of person). OS-X Tiger (the latest version) will run on anything Power PC G3 or newer which basically means macs built since 1997, now you just try getting Vista working on 10 year old hardware.....

@vikingaero - you do know that PC Pro article is taking the p*ss out of the whole PC vs Mac thing right? Quite amusing it is too as I recall.
#11
I came round to mac when I used the new iMac. Everything is included with it and any extras you might need are the same colour and match nicely. Boots up in seconds and takes up no room, plus you have the whole media centre aspect only increased by buying an appletv box to go with it!
#12
Yes, I use a Mac for Work and a PC for play too... again. Total contradiction of the adverts.

I HATE the things... I really do. So many reasons, my biggest gripe being the floating windows!! urgh!!

And also the fact that I always copy using Alt + C on my PC now by accident... I'm sure apple did that on purpose!! Grrrrrrrrrrr.

They make me so frustrated it's unreal.
#13
i got macbook this week, prefer it to my PC simply due to the power and response time, im running windows vista on it at the same time as OSX and also remote connecting to my windows pc wirelessley and the thing doesnt even freeze like a PC would.

im starting to prefer OSX alot more, and now ive got Vista on it im realising how crap it actually is!
1 Like #14
Also, dont forget, if you buy a Mac, you can decide if you want to run Windows or OS X, so you get 2 PC's in one. (yes i know you can run OS X on a PC, but not with the same level of support).

Also, not forgetting running windows in virtualisation. I have the best of both world. I have Windows running on a virtual desktop in OSX, two key presses and i'm in windows, ready to run ANY windows apps i need. Infact i have OSX, Windows Vista and Ubuntu all running, all no more than a key press away.

So, was it worth the money? TOTALLY!
#15
As a graphic designer, working on a Mac is so much easier. Photoshop crashed all the time on my PC and I spent hours defragging the HD
#16
Quite a good debate going here. I'm a PC expert, through Uni, work etc. I work with PC's all the time, and now have a small business in the evenings doing PC repair...

I thought I'd better get a mac to play with, so I bought a G3 ibook off ebay for just over £100 so I could get my skills up to speed. I've got a monster PC wth 19" Screen, and at the moment, I keep coming home, opening the ibook and spending the evening on the net or whatever through that. Bare in mind my PC is less than a year old and the Mac is 6 or so. I find it fast and friendly, and sits nicely on my latop. It took a while to get used to the one button, but I love all the design features now of both software and Hardware... I'm thinking of selling both now and getting a powerbook!!

(Don't tell any of my customers, but i'm beginning to dislike PC's)!!!
#17
Side note: Modern Mac's have a left-click and right click...have done for a good few years now.
#18
The software issue, whilst being mentioned, has not really been discussed. A computer is meant to be more than the sum of it's components. Get a PC, and you can choose from a software catalogue that is vast. In fact second to none. Get a Mac and you have the basics. PShop, Office, ... PShop... umm, actually I can't think of anymore. I think that a computer is only as good as it's potential functionality. A PC can do pretty much whatever you want it to do via software, whereas a Mac is limited to very specific tasks.
#19
Macs don't get viruses, although most people agree that as they become more popular, it's only a matter of time before they do. Sotware suitability & availability is a pain but that will get better with more demand.

When I had a PC, it was annoying having to update antivirus software and checking for trojans etc. PC maintenance was a daily time consuming chore which often delayed work progress.

With a Mac, I no longer get 'the blue screen of death' and software system updates come through automatically. My next Mac will have Intel.
#20
Scribbles
The software issue, whilst being mentioned, has not really been discussed. A computer is meant to be more than the sum of it's components. Get a PC, and you can choose from a software catalogue that is vast. In fact second to none. Get a Mac and you have the basics. PShop, Office, ... PShop... umm, actually I can't think of anymore. I think that a computer is only as good as it's potential functionality. A PC can do pretty much whatever you want it to do via software, whereas a Mac is limited to very specific tasks.


That is pretty much a load of nonsense, because i could turn this around and say that on a Mac you have a FAR GREATER choice.

As i said in my previous post, you can run Windows on any Intel based Mac giving you access to ALL the Mac goodies and ALL the windows goodies. It's win win!

To see what i'm talking about and how easy this is to do, watch this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE1XQyT_IbA

All this and i haven't even started on the coherence feature - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN9jNNeEd98
#21
JayBird
That is pretty much a load of nonsense, because i could turn this around and say that on a Mac you have a FAR GREATER choice.

As i said in my previous post, you can run Windows on any Intel based Mac giving you access to ALL the Mac goodies and ALL the windows goodies. It's win win!

To see what i'm talking about and how easy this is to do, watch this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE1XQyT_IbA

All this and i haven't even started on the coherence feature - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN9jNNeEd98


Through virtualization, you lose a lot of speed and functionality. I need 512mb minimum to run Vista virtually. OK if you have a gig to play with, but how many Macs come with 1gb RAM as standard? And, you won't have the aero interface either. That's for Vista basic functionality.
If you have a top spec Mac, then i'll agree with you. But people who just want to play with a Mac usually only have 512mb available. While you will be able to run Windows 2000, XP would be a stretch IMO.
#22
ALL Macs come with 1GB of ram standard, apart from the Mac Minis and the cheapest iMac. Ram for Macs is so cheap, you'd be foolish not to upgrade to the maximum capacity (current 1GB stick for my iMac is £27).

Why do you say "Through virtualization, you lose a lot of speed and functionality", becuase clearly this ISN'T true. This is vitualization, not emulation. All the OS's and apps are running natively.

I have a Core Duo 2.0Ghz iMac (not the later Core 2 Duo) with 1.5GB Ram....runs OS X, Vista and Ubuntu flawlessly (simultaneously). I installed a version of Vista called Vista Lite which has all the unneeded crap removed.

Still waiting for your correct counter argument ;)
#23
JayBird
Why do you say "Through virtualization, you lose a lot of speed and functionality", becuase clearly this ISN'T true. This is vitualization, not emulation. All the OS's and apps are running natively.


But they are sharing resources with the host OS. If you have 1024mb inside, 512 of that is needed to run OSX. Leaving you 512 to run the guest.
The hardware needed to run the OS is emulated, and you just don't get the performance that you would from native hardware.
Try running GTA San Andreas on a virtual machine with 512mb allocated to it, then try it on a standalone PC running XP and 512mb memory.
I know you can dual boot with Darwin, and that probably destroys my arguement somewhat. But that can be attributed somewhat to the advent of Intel based Macs. Even Steve Jobs saw that Intel was a better proposition than PowerPC based systems.
#24
palspal
Macs don't get viruses, although most people agree that as they become more popular, it's only a matter of time before they do. Sotware suitability & availability is a pain but that will get better with more demand.


Not strictly true, there are Mac viruses out there just like there are Linux viruses! The difference is that because of the different security model those two OS's use viruses just aren't an issue for Mac or Linux, unlike Windows.

More info here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/06/linux_vs_windows_viruses/
#25
Scribbles
But they are sharing resources with the host OS. If you have 1024mb inside, 512 of that is needed to run OSX. Leaving you 512 to run the guest.

Correct
Scribbles
The hardware needed to run the OS is emulated, and you just don't get the performance that you would from native hardware.

Not entirely correct, this is Native virtualization, not emulation

Scribbles
Try running GTA San Andreas on a virtual machine with 512mb allocated to it, then try it on a standalone PC running XP and 512mb memory.

Correct, but this isn't what we are talking about, you said that there a more applications available for the PC, which whilst true, shouldn't stop you from buying a Mac as you can run ALL these applications on a Mac too.

Scribbles
I know you can dual boot with Darwin, and that probably destroys my argument somewhat. But that can be attributed somewhat to the advent of Intel based Macs. Even Steve Jobs saw that Intel was a better proposition than PowerPC based systems.


Yes, i was going to say, if you want to do some hardcore gaming, you can the just restart the machine and boot straight into windows with no other OS running.

Don't get me wrong, im not some Mac fanboy, i was a hardcore PC guy for 15 years (being a Web Developer). I plumped for a mac at the beginning of last year. At first you keep wanting to switch back to a PC because "its what you know", but stick with it and you'll soon realize what a great piece of hardware you own and how versatile it is.

I have now sold all my PCs because they ended up just sat redundant because there was no need for them, i had everything i need in one machine. Now THAT is value for money!
#26
Scribbles
The software issue, whilst being mentioned, has not really been discussed. A computer is meant to be more than the sum of it's components. Get a PC, and you can choose from a software catalogue that is vast. In fact second to none. Get a Mac and you have the basics. PShop, Office, ... PShop... umm, actually I can't think of anymore. I think that a computer is only as good as it's potential functionality. A PC can do pretty much whatever you want it to do via software, whereas a Mac is limited to very specific tasks.


Now I'm a PC man at heart but have to say this simply isn't true. You see because Mac's are BSD Unix based they will run Mac software (well, obviously :whistling:) and Linux/BSD/Unix software. Which means that there is at least as much software available for Mac as Windows. This may not include your favourite Windows application X, but nether the less the choice is huge.

There's a list of "Made4Mac" software here: http://guide.apple.com/uk/
#27
They are worth it
They are worth it even for just browsing the internet. They are well built with good matched components. However they do just work. They also hold their value well and keep running well. My 3 year old 12" is still a very very nice machine. There is tons of software (though I do miss apt) those of you dissing vmware et al are missing the big thing, snapshots. This alone makes windows barely usable
#28
megalomaniac
Not strictly true, there are Mac viruses out there just like there are Linux viruses! The difference is that because of the different security model those two OS's use viruses just aren't an issue for Mac or Linux, unlike Windows.

More info here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/06/linux_vs_windows_viruses/


:thumbsup: Point taken & thanks for the link.
I do have a virus software but rarely use it. My point is that life is much easier and more relaxed using a Mac.:)
#29
:thumbsup: Welcome to HUKD mountainpenguin.:)
#30
yep macs are excellent for designer ive used one as well, will buy one in the future and you dont need virus protections and so on. also vista is trying to give a mac look.

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