Is it time to bring our troops home from Afghanistan? - HotUKDeals
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Is it time to bring our troops home from Afghanistan?

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More dead troops being repatriated today, an underfunded military and a lack of clear objectives - isn't it time we brought our troops out and refocused our strategy in the middle east? Read More
FilthAndFurry Avatar
banned7y, 10m agoPosted 7 years, 10 months ago
More dead troops being repatriated today, an underfunded military and a lack of clear objectives - isn't it time we brought our troops out and refocused our strategy in the middle east?
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FilthAndFurry Avatar
banned7y, 10m agoPosted 7 years, 10 months ago
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#1
Should not be there in first place
1 Like #2
Underfunded military? £30 billion too much if you ask me. Maybe if some of the 'defence' budget was spent on just that rather than futile attack then we wouldn't have these headlines.
#3
Doesn't matter if they should or shouldn't have been there in the first place. The job isn't finished. Finish the job then they can come home.
#4
Our boys being there means millions of Afghans are able to go to work and feed their families,Get an education,Get decent medical treatment and have a say in their own furtures,If they left it would turn back into the Tribal bloodbath it was before, The job they do is amazing the only problem is too many people are too interested in their own lives to properly support them,
#5
tonyg1962;5747763
Our boys being there means millions of Afghans are able to go to work and feed their families,Get an education,Get decent medical treatment and have a say in their own furtures,If they left it would turn back into the Tribal bloodbath it was before, The job they do is amazing the only problem is too many people are too interested in their own lives to properly support them,

+1
banned#6
Robotochan
Doesn't matter if they should or shouldn't have been there in the first place. The job isn't finished. Finish the job then they can come home.


But the generally agreed consensus is that nobody is quite sure what a 'win' is - how do you define finishing the job? Karzai was elected about 5 years ago now.

tonyg1962
Our boys being there means millions of Afghans are able to go to work and feed their families,Get an education,Get decent medical treatment and have a say in their own furtures,If they left it would turn back into the Tribal bloodbath it was before, The job they do is amazing the only problem is too many people are too interested in their own lives to properly support them,


The problem is that nation building has a notoriously poor track record. There are so many faults in the construction of the current situation that it's unclear if it will ever be stable.

Surely if you care about the troops, putting them into a situation without a chance of sustained change is just a complete abuse of their trust.
#7
tonyg1962;5747763
Our boys being there means millions of Afghans are able to go to work and feed their families,Get an education,Get decent medical treatment and have a say in their own furtures,If they left it would turn back into the Tribal bloodbath it was before, The job they do is amazing the only problem is too many people are too interested in their own lives to properly support them,


Thats a very rose-tinted view on it. What are these jobs? Growing opium? As for tribal bloodbath - the 30,000 odd civilians killed since the 'war' began - still sounds like a bloodbath to me.

tinkerbell28;5747868
Not to mention a breeding ground for more radicals to launch more 9/11 or 7/7, we fight them here or fight them there, the extremists will not give in and all the time they are getting towards the route of the problem there, they are helping to keep a lot terrorist attackts, from our soil. So it needs to be done............


Do you not think all the military invasions might be exacerbating the problem just a little?
#8
FilthAndFurry
.

Surely if you care about the troops, putting them into a situation without a chance of sustained change is just a complete abuse of their trust.


I think now that Pakistan has decided to do its bit then there is a chance for real change,The problem has always been insurgents crossing the borders and not being followed ,They always had a hiding place in Pakistan but that is shrinking,
banned#9
tinkerbell28
Not to mention a breeding ground for more radicals to launch more 9/11 or 7/7, we fight them here or fight them there, the extremists will not give in and all the time they are getting towards the route of the problem there, they are helping to keep a lot terrorist attackts, from our soil. So it needs to be done............


Isn't that a false dichotomy though? The one attack on our own soil can be largely argued to be in response to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. An MI5 report stated that “Though they have a range of aspirations and ‘causes’, Iraq is a dominant issue for a range of extremist groups and individuals in the UK and Europe.”

Any number of reports from the USA and Britain have shown that more people are becoming radicalised as a response to what we're doing around the world.
#10
jah128
Thats a very rose-tinted view on it. What are these jobs? Growing opium? As for tribal bloodbath - the 30,000 odd civilians killed since the 'war' began - still sounds like a bloodbath to me.



Do you not think all the military invasions might be exacerbating the problem just a little?


Yes mostly killed by Taliban
#11
FilthAndFurry
Isn't that a false dichotomy though? The one attack on our own soil can be largely argued to be in response to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. An MI5 report stated that “Though they have a range of aspirations and ‘causes’, Iraq is a dominant issue for a range of extremist groups and individuals in the UK and Europe.”

Any number of reports from the USA and Britain have shown that more people are becoming radicalised as a response to what we're doing around the world.


All the people who are supporting the Taliban here are the very ones whos families have fled here to have a better life free from persecution and now they want to help the Taliban impose their persecution on the Afghans while they sit here in relative comfort,
banned#12
tinkerbell28
Nope, this country have intercepted a lot of attacks, and I believe if we allow these extremists to fester, preaching hate then we will have even more problems. These people have an inbuilt hatred of the west and are prepared to kill their own/women/children, using kids as suicide bombers FFS, no reasoning with them. They need to be stopped at all costs from their aims to destroy western society and drag it back to the dark ages, it's frightening. Sept 11th is what kicked the Afghanistan war off...............these people need stopping.


Nobody has an 'inbuilt hatred' of anyone. I think you've fallen into the trap of believing the more extreme elements of the media.

Yes there are fringe elements who are full of hate, and they should be marginalised. The problem is the more desperate you make people, the more receptive they are to extreme ideologies.

9/11 wasn't the beginning of the war as such - it was another step along the way. That area has been invaded a number of times and you can't just look at this situation in isolation.
#13
We shouldn't be fighting a war that is not our's,
#14
tonyg1962;5747908
Yes mostly killed by Taliban


No, more have been killed by US and NATO forces than insurgent forces.:roll:
#15
no , they have a job to finish ... the question should be ... is it not time to send back to afghanistan the british trained anti westernised afghani hypocrites :x that leech the system for all its worth in uk then go to fight the brave soldiers serving queen and country
banned#16
tonyg1962
All the people who are supporting the Taliban here are the very ones whos families have fled here to have a better life free from persecution and now they want to help the Taliban impose their persecution on the Afghans while they sit here in relative comfort,


That is spurious isn't it?
banned#17
trimm trab
no , they have a job to finish ... the question should be ... is it not time to send back to afghanistan the british trained anti westernised afghani hypocrites :x that leech the system for all its worth in uk then go to fight the brave soldiers serving queen and country


What job?
#18
The reason 7/7 happened was because we were there in the first instance,
#19
tinkerbell28;5747991
LOL of course it's ours, what else would you call an attack on western civilianisation, such as Sept 11th, that started the Afghan war, or 7/7? These people train out there, planning how they can come over here and attack us, some were even born here, thick British accents are often heard in taliban communications :roll:


7/7 bombers trained 'out there'? Where - Afghanistan or Iraq? Last I heard it was British men who trained in Luton.

Surely you can see that if you consider 9/11 a direct attack on you (ie Western Civilisation), an illegal invasion of Iraq and lengthy invasion of Afghanistan is going to be seen as an attack on 'them'. Swings and roundabouts.
#20
FilthAndFurry
That is spurious isn't it?


Ok maybe they just came here for a better life but why do they think the Afghans shouldnt be allowed the same rights as they have here,
#21
jah128
No, more have been killed by US and NATO forces than insurgent forces.:roll:


+1 shouldnt be there, more civilians are being killed.
#22
FilthAndFurry
But the generally agreed consensus is that nobody is quite sure what a 'win' is - how do you define finishing the job?


exactly,no one really wins in a war do they? ;-)
#23
tinkerbell28
LOL of course it's ours, what else would you call an attack on western civilianisation, such as Sept 11th, that started the Afghan war, or 7/7? These people train out there, planning how they can come over here and attack us, some were even born here, thick British accents are often heard in taliban communications :roll:


They train out there? u actually believe the media garbage.
#24
tinkerbell28;5748136
Because ...............................................of Sept 11th :thumbsup:


'We' invaded Iraq because of 9/11? Are you sure?

Or did that just provide a weak excuse, maybe enough to convince the gullible US and British masses?

tinkerbell28;5748169
When I say people are training out there, I mean people who are part of this terrorist organisation, out there in these training camps, planning bloodshed on our soils, some are born and bred here.


Where do you mean by 'out there'? Iraq? Afghanistan?
Where are 'our' soils? The USA?
#25
jah128
7/7 bombers trained 'out there'? Where - Afghanistan or Iraq? Last I heard it was British men who trained in Luton.

Surely you can see that if you consider 9/11 a direct attack on you (ie Western Civilisation), an illegal invasion of Iraq and lengthy invasion of Afghanistan is going to be seen as an attack on 'them'. Swings and roundabouts.


People werent rejoicing in the streets because they had been freed on 9/11 as happened in Iraq and Afgahnistan,
#26
No, I don't agree.

We pull our troops out now its showing a sign of weakness, the Taliban aren't stupid and will attack any weak spots in our plans.

The only reason why so many have died recently is because we have been taking the fight to the enemy, its usually just foot patrols around areas to keep the Taliban at bay, this past week though we have been advancing the front line.

Having been medically discharged out of the Army and missing out on a tour in Iraq I would give anything to do my part in Afghan.....anything! Sounds silly but some people actually like being out there.
banned#27
tinkerbell28
Spot on:thumbsup:


So what is a 'win'? When do we pull soldiers out?

Never?
#28
Meadsy4742
No, I don't agree.

We pull our troops out now its showing a sign of weakness, the Taliban aren't stupid and will attack any weak spots in our plans.

The only reason why so many have died recently is because we have been taking the fight to the enemy, its usually just foot patrols around areas to keep the Taliban at bay, this past week though we have been advancing the front line.

Having been medically discharged out of the Army and missing out on a tour in Iraq I would give anything to do my part in Afghan.....anything! Sounds silly but some people actually like being out there.

+1.....
#29
tinkerbell28
No I don't and yes they do, and no I don't get my information from the media:) but if you were here for discussion I would join in, but like F&F you just like to pick fights, so I will be ignoring you :thumbsup:


You know how dumb that sounds? they train there for suicide missions lol and come back, you cant really train for suicide missions. The only training which appears happens over there is shooting etc not for bombing.
#30
Meadsy4742
No, I don't agree.

We pull our troops out now its showing a sign of weakness, the Taliban aren't stupid and will attack any weak spots in our plans.

The only reason why so many have died recently is because we have been taking the fight to the enemy, its usually just foot patrols around areas to keep the Taliban at bay, this past week though we have been advancing the front line.

Having been medically discharged out of the Army and missing out on a tour in Iraq I would give anything to do my part in Afghan.....anything! Sounds silly but some people actually like being out there.


Valid points there. :thumbsup:,
banned#31
tinkerbell28
I don't respond to people who are out to cause tension F&F, saves a whole load of grief, I would reply if I thought for one minute you started this thread for a genuine discussion, but I don't:)


I don't see what in that question is any worse than any other comment in this thread.

In fact, it's the crux of the issue isn't it?
#32
tinkerbell28
Not as dumb as what you just said:thumbsup:


and heres me thinking you were ignoring me:whistling:
#33
FilthAndFurry
So what is a 'win'? When do we pull soldiers out?

Never?


When the Afghans can defend themselves and Pakistan stop allowing isurgents to cross the borders at will, Everyone seems to forget the heroic work that tha Afghan army has done these past years, Many thousands of brave men have laid down their lives for a free Afghanistan and many more will,
banned#34
tonyg1962
When the Afghans can defend themselves and Pakistan stop allowing isurgents to cross the borders at will, Everyone seems to forget the heroic work that tha Afghan army has done these past years, Many thousands of brave men have laid down their lives for a free Afghanistan and many more will,


Karzai has been pushing for a timetable for withdrawl since last year.

It's also hugely unlikely that a landlocked country the size of Afghanistan will have secure borders, especially with the unique terrain conditions in the south east of the country.
banned#35
tinkerbell28
Because filth after reading your deliberate comment's to try and steer another thread of course, which have now been deleted, I believe you set this thread up just to try and get peoples back's up (bad thing) not for genuine discussion (good thing).................Hence why I won't respond as you will only turn people's respones to try and get them to respond in a negative manner, you know it:thumbsup:


That just seems like such a cop out. You've been happy to respond to comments on this thread up to now, yet it's only on this point that you've objected.

Just seems strange is all.
#36
tinkerbell28
I am, it was not a direct answer was it:)


That certainly was:roll:
#37
tinkerbell28;5748191
Did I say Iraq we are talking Afghanistan here :thinking: My thinking on Iraq is totally different..........


You must see that the invasion of Iraq made relations with the rest of the world very soured - I'm not saying 7/7 definately wouldn't have happened - but I strongly suspect this is the case. Not to mention the fact it massively stretched our 'defence' budget and forces, undoubtedly making the situation in Afganistan worse. They are related, yes there was some justification for the war against the Taliban, but the invasion of Iraq was wholly unjustified and damaging to our forces and security.

tinkerbell28;5748240
To answer you edit quote, the camps in Afghan, and when I refer to our soils, I am talking the UK, Aus, Usa, France..................


We are not the USA. Our closest allies should surely be Ireland, part of the British Isles after all (sorry if that offends any Irish) and the other countries where the Queen is the head of state - then the European nations. The Bush-Blair relations have shifted our standing and have made us a much bigger target...
#38
It appears you base your impression of me over this and one other thread.
banned#39
tinkerbell28;5748418
I have responded to others who are up for a genuine discussion, just not you and Marz who gout out of your way to pick a fight.
I think those who are after GENUINE debate, you may want to leave this thread, unless you wan't to huddle under a bridge:thumbsup:

I would not give the Op the time of day as the intention to post this thread was not to get a decent conversation going but to try to get as many adverse reactions as possbile.. He is like a bad smell and the sooner he takes himself off elsewhere cant come soon enough :thumbsup:
#40
dog_cop;5748455
I would not give the Op the time of day as the intention to post this thread was not to get a decent conversation going but to try to get as many adverse reactions as possbile.. He is like a bad smell and the sooner he takes himself off elsewhere cant come soon enough :thumbsup:

+1

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