Is it time to get serious with N Korea? - HotUKDeals
We use cookie files to improve site functionality and personalisation. By continuing to use HotUKDeals, you accept our cookie and privacy policy.
Get the HotUKDeals app free at Google Play

Search Error

An error occurred when searching, please try again!

Login / Sign UpSubmit

Is it time to get serious with N Korea?

£0.00 @
It seems to me that being diplomatic with a hard line communist state that is completely inpenetrable to world opinion is an exercise in futility. Is it time to use a big clunking fist to squash thes… Read More
Scribbles Avatar
8y, 4w agoPosted 8 years, 4 weeks ago
It seems to me that being diplomatic with a hard line communist state that is completely inpenetrable to world opinion is an exercise in futility. Is it time to use a big clunking fist to squash these upstarts?
It seems to me that everyone is too gutless to do anything until Tokyo and Seoul are glowing in the dark. By then it will be too late, and it kind of takes the biscuit that we can't get together to stop idiots like this from potentially starting a war in the Korean/Japanese peninsula.
Scribbles Avatar
8y, 4w agoPosted 8 years, 4 weeks ago
Options

All Comments

(57) Jump to unreadPost a comment
Comments/page:
Page:
#1
Wow, you have gone all political these days scribbs :)

How would you propose we do this? What sort of big clunking fist are you talking about?
#2
I'm talking about the UN getting together and actually doing something in unity, rather than the usual partizan bs they practice. Squeeze them until the pips squeak, via sanctions. Just let in food, nothing else whatsoever.
I've always been political mate, I mod at another place and all my political stuff usually goes on in there :)
#3
Scribbles
I'm talking about the UN getting together and actually doing something in unity, rather than the usual partizan bs they practice. Squeeze them until the pips squeak, via sanctions. Just let in food, nothing else whatsoever.
I've always been political mate, I mod at another place and all my political stuff usually goes on in there :)


The problem is that sanctions have already been imposed for years by the UN. The effect it has had on the North Korean civilians have been injurious while the North Korean government use whatever money is available on fortifying its military. Furthermore, trading exists with its neighbour China and to a lesser extent, Russia so that is why China have been very reluctant to impose sanctions themselves and rather all parties to exercise caution in their actions.

By the way, Japan is not a peninsula!
#4
ElliottC
The problem is that sanctions have already been imposed for years by the UN. The effect it has had on the North Korean civilians have been injurious while the North Korean government use whatever money is available on fortifying its military. Furthermore, trading exists with its neighbour China and to a lesser extent, Russia so that is why China have been very reluctant to impose sanctions themselves and rather all parties to exercise caution in their actions.

By the way, Japan is not a peninsula!


If you can describe watered down resolutions that had a half hearted response from China and Russia as sanctions lol
NK need to be left in no doubt that there is zero opposition to taking whatever action gets the job done. That especially includes complete compliance from Rus and Chn.
While they continue to run roughshot over the UN, KJI will just continue to do whatever he pleases with their blessing.
#5
Nuke them !!
then turn it into a new holiday resort.
http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff359/hukd1/fishing.jpg
#6
Scribbles
If you can describe watered down resolutions that had a half hearted response from China and Russia as sanctions lol
NK need to be left in no doubt that there is zero opposition to taking whatever action gets the job done. That especially includes complete compliance from Rus and Chn


I agree that economic sanctions from China would most certainly be productive but trading is the reason why they don't despite China also being a UN member. It would be hypocritical to criticise Russia and China because similar arguments can be made for France for financing the Hutu v Tutsi genocides in Rwanda and also supplying arms to Somalia. Even Britain are not absolved of any blame - the war in Iraq was seen by many to be unlawful and wasn't Al Qaeda trained by the British and had armament supplied by the British?

My comments on economic sanctions was in response to your suggesting of imposing them but was to point out that they have been in place for years - exactly what you had suggested but that has not stopped them becoming a military force.
#7
rangermastiffs
Nuke them !!
then turn it into a new holiday resort.
http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff359/hukd1/fishing.jpg


+1
2 Likes #8
ElliottC
The problem is that sanctions have already been imposed for years by the UN. The effect it has had on the North Korean civilians have been injurious while the North Korean government use whatever money is available on fortifying its military. Furthermore, trading exists with its neighbour China and to a lesser extent, Russia so that is why China have been very reluctant to impose sanctions themselves and rather all parties to exercise caution in their actions.

By the way, Japan is not a peninsula!


I agree. There is no quick-fix to a problem like this, and probably the only way out is through diplomacy. Big clunking fists created the problem in the first place by carving up the country in 1945, intervening in the Korean War (1950-53), and using the area as a proxy battleground for other conflicts.

Diplomatic efforts also made significant progress in recent times. George Bush II put a break on some of that progress by directing US attention elsewhere whilst labelling the country as part of his 'axis of evil'.

And you're right, it's an archipelago :)
#9
rangermastiffs
Nuke them !!
then turn it into a new holiday resort.
http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff359/hukd1/fishing.jpg


civms47
+1


+2
#10
http://mbatm27.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/slide1.jpg

Don't make Kim mad . . . .
#11
Oh dear, someone expired this one too. :? Is someone delibarately trying to annoy you scribbs? Maybe the mods will check it wasn't the same person as yesterday...
#12
I just want to know if kim Jong Ill shops at C&A or Primark?

Liddle ol' me
Oh dear, someone expired this one too. :? Is someone delibarately trying to annoy you scribbs? Maybe the mods will check it wasn't the same person as yesterday...


Yeah lol
I'm not even gonna rise to it. If the mods disagree, i'm sure they will unexpire it
1 Like #13
Liddle ol' me
I agree. There is no quick-fix to a problem like this, and probably the only way out is through diplomacy. Big clunking fists created the problem in the first place by carving up the country in 1945, intervening in the Korean War (1950-53), and using the area as a proxy battleground for other conflicts.

Diplomatic efforts also made significant progress in recent times. George Bush II put a break on some of that progress by directing US attention elsewhere whilst labelling the country as part of his 'axis of evil'.

And you're right, it's an archipelago :)


I believe continuous diplomatic talks is all that can be carried out for now rather than the irrational comments elsewhere, of nuking them. Although I most certainly do not condone the actions of the North Korean junta, nuking the country is really very doleful to say indeed.

Your comments, Liddle, highlights very well the hypocrisies and your insight into the development of these issues shows it is a thorny issue - not a simple case of a junta leader behaving badly and the whole country must be nuked!
#14
Scribbles;5312911
I just want to know if kim Jong Ill shops at C&A or Primark?


Don't think they have a Primark over there

I'm sure it's called 'Skidmark' they shop at. :p
#15
rangermastiffs
Don't think they have a Primark over there

I'm sure it's called 'Skidmark' they shop at. :p


I saw Mutiny on the Buses the other day and Reg Varney wore some something in a very similar style. If I had KJI dress sense, i'd kill myself.
[admin]#16
Unexpired
#17
ElliottC
I believe continuous diplomatic talks is all that can be carried out for now rather than the irrational comments elsewhere, of nuking them. Although I most certainly do not condone the actions of the North Korean junta, nuking the country is really very doleful to say indeed.

Your comments, Liddle, highlights very well the hypocrisies and your insight into the development of these issues shows it is a thorny issue - not a simple case of a junta leader behaving badly and the whole country must be nuked!


I don't think the "nuke them" comments were actually made seriously, but maybe the threat of something like that is required before KJI takes any notice of the rest of the world.....
banned#18
I think the hope is that Kim Jong Il will die in the next few years and the country might open up a bit.

If not, the Film Actors Guild is our only hope.
#19
I agree. Lets Nuke them. :-D
#20
UN can't really do anything, we 'attack' them, they send a nuke, we (as in the UN) retaliate, china or whoever, as their allies send a nuke back, chain reaction. that's why we don't do nothing or we'd have done something already.
If they had oil, it'd be different ofc.
#21
starsparkle2311
yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p


Put that tongue away Sparkle, I dont know where its been! :p

Lets Nuke all potential threats and not give any of them a chance to fire back.:thumbsup:
#22
The only country to actually kill a human population with intent, and with a nuke is the United States yet we seem to forget that..
#23
how come the US focuses on iran so much while North Korea carry on developing nuclear weapons? all got to do with oil. north korea dont have oil and iran does.
1 Like #24
ElliottC
The problem is that sanctions have already been imposed for years by the UN. The effect it has had on the North Korean civilians have been injurious while the North Korean government use whatever money is available on fortifying its military. Furthermore, trading exists with its neighbour China and to a lesser extent, Russia so that is why China have been very reluctant to impose sanctions themselves and rather all parties to exercise caution in their actions.


ElliottC
I agree that economic sanctions from China would most certainly be productive but trading is the reason why they don't despite China also being a UN member. It would be hypocritical to criticise Russia and China because similar arguments can be made for France for financing the Hutu v Tutsi genocides in Rwanda and also supplying arms to Somalia. Even Britain are not absolved of any blame - the war in Iraq was seen by many to be unlawful and wasn't Al Qaeda trained by the British and had armament supplied by the British?

My comments on economic sanctions was in response to your suggesting of imposing them but was to point out that they have been in place for years - exactly what you had suggested but that has not stopped them becoming a military force.


Liddle ol' me
I agree. There is no quick-fix to a problem like this, and probably the only way out is through diplomacy. Big clunking fists created the problem in the first place by carving up the country in 1945, intervening in the Korean War (1950-53), and using the area as a proxy battleground for other conflicts.

Diplomatic efforts also made significant progress in recent times. George Bush II put a break on some of that progress by directing US attention elsewhere whilst labelling the country as part of his 'axis of evil'.


Very good points with which I agree.
The dictatorship is predicated upon a philosophy of 'self-reliance' and sanctions, rantings and ravings have no effect upon that central dogma. The population of N Korea is either starving and stunted or belonging to the armed forces. There is no possibility of resistance. There is total control of all media. The only possibility of a UN iron fist ( the thought, for the UN, is almost laughable) is more sanctions rendering the hapless population at even greater risk as the rationing system will divert all available food first to the armed forces. If what you mean is actually a unilateral strike by the US, then thank goodness Obama will never contemplate such a thing. Pre-emptive action does not tend to have a positive outcome - see the outcomes in Iraq and Korea itself.
Whether there will ever be any end to the madness of the arms race and the ludicrous idea that agressive force wll crush ideology, I do not know but I do know that history is full of the debris of men trying.
#25
Negative sanctions against any country bring suffering to the people rather than the government.

An "iron fist" will never encourage peace.

Only communication and understanding does that.

Lord if it's not enough to be married to an American lol
#26
chesso

Whether there will ever be any end to the madness of the arms race and the ludicrous idea that agressive force wll crush ideology, I do not know but I do know that history is full of the debris of men trying.


You have a lovely turn of phrase sweetie. Very rich with imagery :)
#27
in the voice of one of the best comedians there has been Mr Kenny Everett
"Round 'em up, put 'em in a field, and BOMB THE B ASTARDS! .........
:p
#28
richp
in the voice of one of the best comedians there has been Mr Kenny Everett :p


he was a very funny guy. So sad to die that way.
1 Like #29
IMO I feel that Isreal or Pakistan pose a greater threat than North Korea with their nuclear arsenal.
Isreal with her "never again" mentality means that they will have no hesitation in using their nukes if attacked, I mean they dont even publicly admit they have a nuclear arsenal, so there is no chance they would ever sign the non-proliferation treaty.
Pakistan is on the brink of being overun by extremeists and AQ Khan(founder of Pakistans nuclear programme) has already passed his knowledge of their nuclear programme onto other countries including North Korea.
TBH I find a bit hypocritical for people in this country to condemn North Korea when we are about to spend £20 billion on renewing our own trident nuclear weapons, a decision taken by politicians without any sort of public consultation or public approval(so much for democracy eh??).
Along with the Americans we have also used depleted uranium shells in Iraq twice(1st and current Gulf war) meaning that there are areas in Iraq which are nuclear wastegrounds and will be for centuries. Watched a programme a while back showing Iraqi children mutated at birth as a result of the nuclear materials incorporated into the water, crops etc.
As for the claims that the bomb that Korea used was as strong as the bomb dropped on hiroshima/nagasaki, the question has to be asked who is the only country to use a "nuclear" bomb on another country in 50+ years since the power of the atom was released and dont the Americans/Chinese/Russians have none nuclear bombs that are much more powerful than thosde dropped on the Japs in the 2nd world war? The American MOAB( Mother of All Bombs) and Daisycutters both come to mind.

North Korea is a failed state propped up by the Chinese and relies heavily on aid from China/South Korea and Japan. Thye could never engage in any sort of global conflict without the backing of China and no chance that their missiles would ever reach Europe or the UK.
Seems like media manipulation so me, wouldnt be surprised if they dig out a fake video on Bin Ladin in the next few weeks, claiming a "imminent terrorist attack". Cant belive that people get suckered by this BS.
#30
chesso
Very good points with which I agree.
The dictatorship is predicated upon a philosophy of 'self-reliance' and sanctions, rantings and ravings have no effect upon that central dogma. The population of N Korea is either starving and stunted or belonging to the armed forces. There is no possibility of resistance. There is total control of all media. The only possibility of a UN iron fist ( the thought, for the UN, is almost laughable) is more sanctions rendering the hapless population at even greater risk as the rationing system will divert all available food first to the armed forces. If what you mean is actually a unilateral strike by the US, then thank goodness Obama will never contemplate such a thing. Pre-emptive action does not tend to have a positive outcome - see the outcomes in Iraq and Korea itself.
Whether there will ever be any end to the madness of the arms race and the ludicrous idea that agressive force wll crush ideology, I do not know but I do know that history is full of the debris of men trying.


That was very eruditely pieced together.

It is a sorry state of affairs when imposing sanctions is causing further hardship to the people in which they are supposed to protect and this is further impaired by the North Korean disruption of humanitarian aid. The long term effects of multilateral sanctioning can be productive but unfortunately in this case, North Korea is militarily relf-reliant and economic ties with China are strong.

Like yourself, I do not know the solution and let's not forget that historically, military action have also resulted in collateral damage too, as well as debris of men lying, and given the huge might of the North Korean army, a military offensive would unlikely to be a quick solution. Maybe China can be pivotal in this situation as they have not ruled out sanctions themselves.
#31
treble99
Cant belive that people get suckered by this BS.


People can believe in what they want but I blame certain media proselytisation for a lack of understanding. There are certain types of papers that spoonfeed certain members of public with drivel and there are other types that edit articles in a manner that allows the reader to make a decision on what was published.
1 Like #32
"Good" journalism is either written to persuade OR it is fair and unbiased.
#33
treble99
IMO I feel that Isreal or Pakistan pose a greater threat than North Korea with their nuclear arsenal.
Isreal with her "never again" mentality means that they will have no hesitation in using their nukes if attacked, I mean they dont even publicly admit they have a nuclear arsenal, so there is no chance they would ever sign the non-proliferation treaty.
Pakistan is on the brink of being overun by extremeists and AQ Khan(founder of Pakistans nuclear programme) has already passed his knowledge of their nuclear programme onto other countries including North Korea.
TBH I find a bit hypocritical for people in this country to condemn North Korea when we are about to spend £20 billion on renewing our own trident nuclear weapons, a decision taken by politicians without any sort of public consultation or public approval(so much for democracy eh??).
Along with the Americans we have also used depleted uranium shells in Iraq twice(1st and current Gulf war) meaning that there are areas in Iraq which are nuclear wastegrounds and will be for centuries. Watched a programme a while back showing Iraqi children mutated at birth as a result of the nuclear materials incorporated into the water, crops etc.
As for the claims that the bomb that Korea used was as strong as the bomb dropped on hiroshima/nagasaki, the question has to be asked who is the only country to use a "nuclear" bomb on another country in 50+ years since the power of the atom was released and dont the Americans/Chinese/Russians have none nuclear bombs that are much more powerful than thosde dropped on the Japs in the 2nd world war? The American MOAB( Mother of All Bombs) and Daisycutters both come to mind.

North Korea is a failed state propped up by the Chinese and relies heavily on aid from China/South Korea and Japan. Thye could never engage in any sort of global conflict without the backing of China and no chance that their missiles would ever reach Europe or the UK.
Seems like media manipulation so me, wouldnt be surprised if they dig out a fake video on Bin Ladin in the next few weeks, claiming a "imminent terrorist attack". Cant belive that people get suckered by this BS.



Pakistan is being primed for a full on assault. american drones have caused many deaths and carnage to date.

As for the former, it appears to be above the law, influencing it even. Its easy to keep on harassing Iran, yet anything said against the zionist entity is met with jibes of 'anti-semetism'.

the world is a dangerous place atm, yet focusing on Korea seems to be a strategic ploy, so as too divert attention from the real threat.
#34
NK is one of many threats. What makes them more dangerous than Iran could ever be is that they would jump up and down with glee at the opportunity to wipe out and annex SK. Even more frightening is their "I couldn't give a damn" attitude to the repercussions. That makes them more dangerous than any other nuclear armed country could ever be.
We all know how difficult it is to defeat a fanatical enemy that embraces death after 8 years in Afghanistan. Also you could wipe out his entire army and he would not care one jot about the body count. The NK population are merely pawns for his use of. The potential sacrifice of his people is not even a forethought. NK would not hesitate to wipe out their enemies in the blink of an eye, that is why they simply MUST NOT be allowed to obtain a nuclear capability. At all costs.
The comparison to the UK having trident is laughable. We hold our stockpile responsibly, strictly as a deterent. NK wants to use them, make no mistake. They have already tested a 20k bomb and are testing a delivery system. How much more does it take before they constitute a clear and present danger??
Iran are just looking for a trump card to bring to the bargaining table, I dont consider Iran to be a threat in the grand scheme of things. They are simply playing the game.
#35
Scribbles
NK is one of many threats. What makes them more dangerous than Iran could ever be is that they would jump up and down with glee at the opportunity to wipe out and annex SK. Even more frightening is their "I couldn't give a damn" attitude to the repercussions. That makes them more dangerous than any other nuclear armed country could ever be.
We all know how difficult it is to defeat a fanatical enemy that embraces death after 8 years in Afghanistan. Also you could wipe out his entire army and he would not care one jot about the body count. The NK population are merely pawns for his use of. The potential sacrifice of his people is not even a forethought. NK would not hesitate to wipe out their enemies in the blink of an eye, that is why they simply MUST NOT be allowed to obtain a nuclear capability. At all costs.
The comparison to the UK having trident is laughable. We hold our stockpile responsibly, strictly as a deterent. NK wants to use them, make no mistake. They have already tested a 20k bomb and are testing a delivery system. How much more does it take before they constitute a clear and present danger??
Iran are just looking for a trump card to bring to the bargaining table, I dont consider Iran to be a threat in the grand scheme of things. They are simply playing the game.



Your are entitled to your opinion but what you stated is your opinion and doesnt quote any facts.
The fact of the matter is that the U.K army has used depleted uranium in Iraq and altough it doesnt possess the grand effect of a mushroom cloud like a nuclear bomb the ongoing nuclear fallout from these shells has the same effect as the fallout from a traditional nuclear bomb.
You also choose to ignore the fact that Isreal has a nuclear arsenal and is doesnt give a shi* what the international community thinks, U.N resolution 242 and 338 spring to mind(if you dont know what they are then google it)
You also ignored to mention the fact that Pakistan and India both possess nuclear weapons, not members of the non proliferation treaty( as mentioned before AQ Khan sold his nuclear bomb making knowledge), both countries have gone to war 3 times in the last 60 years and contain more than 1/5 of the worlds population.
I not trying to argue with you or belittle your points but please dont be taken in by the drivel fed to you by the media. Kim jong Il is probably either dead or on his last legs so is not likely to cause a nuclear holocaust to the Korean people. Their first nuclear bomb was set off 3 years ago since which they actually stopped their uranium enrichment programme, so dont know how you got the idea that they are due to start a war.

Re: Iran, The Iranians look at Pakistan, which is more of a hotbed of terrorism than Afghanistan/Iraq and think why will the Americans never invade the Pakistani soil. the answer lies with the nuclear weapons, the Pakistanis and Americans both know they wouldnt use them against each other but the fact the Pakistanis have them acts as enough a deterrant for America to never invade them.
#36
" Isreal has a nuclear arsenal and is doesnt give a shi* what the international community thinks"

"NK is one of many threats. What makes them more dangerous than Iran could ever be is that they would jump up and down with glee at the opportunity to wipe out and annex SK"

Take care in speaking with one voice for a whole country. Individuals have views. Countries are just pieces of land. Governmental edicts are not necessarily the voice of the people.
#37
ClarityofMind
" Isreal has a nuclear arsenal and is doesnt give a shi* what the international community thinks"

"NK is one of many threats. What makes them more dangerous than Iran could ever be is that they would jump up and down with glee at the opportunity to wipe out and annex SK"

Take care in speaking with one voice for a whole country. Individuals have views. Countries are just pieces of land. Governmental edicts are not necessarily the voice of the people.


Apology If I have offended you or anyone else :)
You seem to across as a very intelligent and articulate person.
#38
treble99
Your are entitled to your opinion but what you stated is your opinion and doesnt quote any facts.


Not trying to be factual. I'm just delivering my opinion. If you want facts, there is always Wikipedia.
I'm just throwing my hat in the ring and seeing what occurs. This is why the thread title is a question rather than a statement :)
A debate is many different clashing opinions, and I don't doubt that my opinion clashes with others. Yeah, Pakistan is a hotbed waiting to explode. Israel has a massive stockpile that was given to it by the US. The US has too much influence over Israel though, Israel is the US's puppet in the middle east and does nothing without the US's blessing. India have far more to lose than they gain by a war with Pakistan. Iran, again, want to be a bigger player in the world community and have everything to lose by nuking Israel.
What does NK have to lose? Nothing. Zilch. The whole world sees them as a tyranical despot, no-one will talk to them, they are isolated and hated. An enemy is at his most dangerous when cornered.
#39
ClarityofMind
" Isreal has a nuclear arsenal and is doesnt give a shi* what the international community thinks"

"NK is one of many threats. What makes them more dangerous than Iran could ever be is that they would jump up and down with glee at the opportunity to wipe out and annex SK"

Take care in speaking with one voice for a whole country. Individuals have views. Countries are just pieces of land. Governmental edicts are not necessarily the voice of the people.


When I speak of NK, I talk of the state not the people. What influence do the people have in NK? None. No offence meant here neither, but I thought it was obvious that NK = KJI = the military. I have always stated that NK doesn't care about it's people, no more than Burma does.
#40
Scribbles
When I speak of NK, I talk of the state not the people. What influence do the people have in NK? None. No offence meant here neither, but I thought it was obvious that NK = KJI = the military. I have always stated that NK doesn't care about it's people, no more than Burma does.


I simply pointed out it may be folly to speak for the state of another country, you cannot have ambassadorship or the deepest knowledge necessary to do this with justice. To do so weakens the rest of your argument, which actually isnt that bad.

Post a Comment

You don't need an account to leave a comment. Just enter your email address. We'll keep it private.

...OR log in with your social account

...OR comment using your social account

Thanks for your comment! Keep it up!
We just need to have a quick look and it will be live soon.
The community is happy to hear your opinion! Keep contributing!