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Is this how you want your children to start life ??

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Just remember this is a well respected History Teacher speaking here, not some "Fleet St. Hack". If you really care about this sort of thing happening in our schools it's time to stand up and be count…
hottoshop Avatar
9y, 4d agoPosted 9 years, 4 days ago
Just remember this is a well respected History Teacher speaking here, not some "Fleet St. Hack". If you really care about this sort of thing happening in our schools it's time to stand up and be counted before it's too late.

Parents that care still have the ability to change things before they happen. Changing systems etc that are already in place is a much harder thing to do.

SOURCE. BBC NEWS. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7301669.stm
Teachers' leaders warn education in England could soon become "Orwellian" under a regime of targets, testing, tables, inspections and observation.
President of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers Julia Neal said this was the likely outcome of over-measured, over-monitored schools.

The focus is on tests and targets - not personalised learning, she told her union's annual conference in Torquay.

Ms Neal imagined a sinister future with CCTV surveillance in every classroom.

'Big brother'
Ms Neal - a history teacher in Torquay Grammar School for Girls - imagines the world in 2013, when children are tested on a rolling basis and take regular mock tests to make sure they are ready for the real ones.

"Failure to demonstrate a year-on-year improvement in pass rates would be just too embarrassing," she says.

The new Ministry of Trust puts so much faith in teachers' professional assessments of their pupils it deploys inspectors to visit schools, "just to help out".

"Luckily for the inspectors, CCTV is now obligatory in schools so they can watch teachers in action at any time, without prior notice.

"After all, inspectors are there to offer support, just like a family member, perhaps - just like a big brother."

Observations
In this vision, league tables fluctuate weekly, parents wait for the transfer window to open so they can apply for a place at the premiership schools.

"What I fear is that children would continue to feel disengaged and alienated, they would behave badly, and their truancy rates would continue to rise," Ms Neal says.

Her alternative vision - in which the government has listened to her union's policies - is one in which GCSEs and A-levels have been replaced by a comprehensive diploma.

Assessment is carried out mostly by teachers and there are no league tables.

Curriculum flexibility gives teachers the freedom to innovate and schools are "buzzing" with new ways to organise learning, with a new emphasis on "a range of skills rather than a narrow range of knowledge".

Talking to reporters, Ms Neal and fellow leaders of the union conceded they did not know of any widespread use of surveillance cameras or two-way mirrors in classrooms, though they said monitoring was more common in newly-built schools and academies.

'Mis-trusted'
They said teachers did not object to being observed teaching a class.

But they wanted to have a professional dialogue about the process with a suitably qualified colleague - not "a malevolent observer" who might pick out one or two classroom interactions and draw a conclusion just from those.

Excessive monitoring stifled creativity and the enjoyment of teaching and learning, Ms Neal said.


The union's deputy general secretary, Martin Johnson, said: "I think it's a sad, sad reflection on the profession at the moment that a lot of our members are quite suspicious of a lot of things."


They mistrusted the motives of their managers and of the government.


"As to how much that's appropriate, that's another question, but that's how they feel."

The Department for Children, Schools and Families declined to comment on the union president's speech.

Source. BBC NEWS http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7301669.stm
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hottoshop Avatar
9y, 4d agoPosted 9 years, 4 days ago
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#2
I find this quite sinister, why are they constantly changing the way schools are run and exams etc.?

Surely, part of the function of the school is to provide a steady, constant education, all this swapping and changing of structures is unsettling and I personally feel routine and stability is the way to make for secure and happy children.

As for one way mirrors, CCTV and the like, I agree schools require this to a degree i.e. in the school holidays the vandalism escalates. But, there is a disturbing aspect to it being in classrooms.
banned#3
CCTV in calssrooms, wonder what its all really about, i doubt for one minue its naff all to do with the education, although i think we may lose 90% of our teachers. My daughters school alone have 90% of teachers that cannot control a class, you wouldnt (or probably would actually) believe what goes on inside her classes, what the teavhers put up with, lets just say its a shame that a class now is 40 minutes paytime and 5 minutes learning
#4
Morning ladies and good to hear your views.
Either of you ever been or thought of being a school governor ?
Anyone else ?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Schoolslearninganddevelopment/SchoolLife/DG_10038366
banned#5
hottoshop
Morning ladies and good to hear your views.
Either of you ever been or thought of being a school governor ?
Anyone else ?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Schoolslearninganddevelopment/SchoolLife/DG_10038366


Im afraid i am far to outspoken for that, we have an amalgamation meeting at our primary/juniour school tonight, two of the biggest senior school around here, which nearly all kids from this area go to have their parents evening tonight, coincidence i hear you say, errrrm i wonder



OOops where are my manners, morning tony xx
#6
My husband was a school governor for 4 years, but dropped out after his 'stint' as he realised that at the end of the day there was a hard core of governors who basically ruled the roost and all the decisions went their way. They where opposed to fresh ideas and input.

Sadly, this is probably the case in many schools.
#7
Maybe if they made Teachers pay attractive they might entice more people into the profession and then have a far greater number of quality teachers. But they won't.
#8
Alfonse
Maybe if they made Teachers pay attractive they might entice more people into the profession and then have a far greater number of quality teachers. But they won't.


Teachers are extremely dedicated and I honestly don't think salary is the prime motivation for taking up the profession.
That said it's obvious that teachers and other public service workers like police and nurses need to be looked after to provide society with a quality workforce.

I would personally like to see interest free mortgages for these types of workers whilst they stay in their respective professions.

There are certainly many other things that could be done to entice and help without having to throw money at salaries. Jsut needs a bit of creative accounting by the government of the time.
#9
sassie
Im afraid i am far to outspoken for that, we have an amalgamation meeting at our primary/juniour school tonight, two of the biggest senior school around here, which nearly all kids from this area go to have their parents evening tonight, coincidence i hear you say, errrrm i wonder

OOops where are my manners, morning tony xx


Hi again Sassie, hope you didn't have nightmares about the bath last night :oops:

You'd be a good School Governor, a true "Agent Provocateur" !
Schools desperately need straight honest people to stand up and start asking why instead of the "yes men" we so frequently see.


suze
My husband was a school governor for 4 years, but dropped out after his 'stint' as he realised that at the end of the day there was a hard core of governors who basically ruled the roost and all the decisions went their way. They where opposed to fresh ideas and input.

Sadly, this is probably the case in many schools.


Seen and heard this so many times Suze. It's always hard work battling the "Old School" syndrome.
Understandable your husband stopped doing it although a shame.

Thing is it's never going to change unless the "ordinary person" starts getting involved. :x
#10
hottoshop
Seen and heard this so many times Suze. It's always hard work battling the "Old School" syndrome.
Understandable your husband stopped doing it although a shame.

Thing is it's never going to change unless the "ordinary person" starts getting involved. :x



It was a shame as when he started he was 'up for it' and keen but after about 12 months in they basically knocked any enthusiasm he had as he realised they where just not willing to listen to 'outsiders' and simply overuled anyone.
#11
hottoshop
Teachers are extremely dedicated and I honestly don't think salary is the prime motivation for taking up the profession.
That said it's obvious that teachers and other public service workers like police and nurses need to be looked after to provide society with a quality workforce.

I would personally like to see interest free mortgages for these types of workers whilst they stay in their respective professions.

There are certainly many other things that could be done to entice and help without having to throw money at salaries. Jsut needs a bit of creative accounting by the government of the time.


You're preaching to the choir, my wife, mum, mother in law, aunt, and 5 of my cousins are all teachers, kind of know what I'm talking about. :whistling:

Better pay would bring in more attraction since there is a teacher shortage and in other public services , I too work for the NHS. The attractive private sector wages aid the economic growth of the average salary going up and young professionals having more disposable income than ever before, make public service careers far less inviting.
banned#12
better money does not make better teachers, it may stop the shortage but it wont stop the problems schools now face, most schools have very little support from parents, children run riot and the schools easiest way to deal with it is to let it continue, when i was a t school we where expected to come up to the teachers level, now the teachers come down to the kids level, Schools no longer deal with issues they are just brushed under the carpet, i am by no means blaming the teachers alone for this,
#13
sassie
better money does not make better teachers, it may stop the shortage but it wont stop the problems schools now face, most schools have very little support from parents, children run riot and the schools easiest way to deal with it is to let it continue, when i was a t school we where expected to come up to the teachers level, now the teachers come down to the kids level, Schools no longer deal with issues they are just brushed under the carpet, i am by no means blaming the teachers alone for this,


I didn't say better money made better teachers, did I?

I said it would atrract more teachers to the profession in turn you WILL incur a percentage of good teachers from the influx which would make greater numbers than there are now, true for any career. I chose my words carefully, I suggest you read them again then I don't have to repeat myself needlessly.
banned#14
Alfonse
I didn't say better money made better teachers, did I?

I said it would atrraction more teachers to the profession in turn you WILL incur a percentage of good teachers from the influx which would make greater numbers than there are now, true for any career. I chose my words carefully, I suggest you read them again then I don't have to repeat myself needlessly.


you know with an attitude like that i really dont wish to discuss it with you, but have highlighted the bit where you refer to we will get a ppercentage of good teachers, this refers the other percentage are not soo good, i will leave the discussion with you there
#15
Alfonse
You're preaching to the choir, my wife, mum, mother in law, aunt, and 5 of my cousins are all teachers, kind of know what I'm talking about. :whistling:

Better pay would bring in more attraction since there is a teacher shortage and in other public services , I too work for the NHS. The attractive private sector wages aid the economic growth of the average salary going up and young professionals having more disposable income than ever before, make public service careers far less inviting.


I wouldn't dream of preaching to anyone. Are you saying that all 9 of your relatives took up teaching primarily for the salary ?

The rest of what you write has been the same for as long as I can remember, I doubt it was ever any different.

I don't dispute the need for competitive wages but I still don't think salary is paramount to people taking up the profession.
What's need is innovative ideas to keep a stable, dedicated and well trained workforce.
#16
Alfonse
I didn't say better money made better teachers, did I?

I said it would atrract more teachers to the profession in turn you WILL incur a percentage of good teachers from the influx which would make greater numbers than there are now, true for any career. I chose my words carefully, I suggest you read them again then I don't have to repeat myself needlessly.


And having seen this you needn't bother replying to my post either. :x
#17
sassie
you know with an attitude like that i really dont wish to discuss it with you, but have highlighted the bit where you refer to we will get a ppercentage of good teachers, this refers the other percentage are not soo good, i will leave the discussion with you there


Well that is obvious demonstrate a profession where the influx of candidates are 100% good intake? Rhetorical btw. My attitude is from having to say the same thing three times, rather annoying to most people.
banned#18
Alfonse
Maybe if they made Teachers pay attractive they might entice more people into the profession and then have a far greater number of quality teachers. But they won't.


i read that exactly as you had typed it, pay them more and you will get a teacher of better quality
#19
hottoshop
I wouldn't dream of preaching to anyone. Are you saying that all 9 of your relatives took up teaching primarily for the salary ?

The rest of what you write has been the same for as long as I can remember, I doubt it was ever any different.

I don't dispute the need for competitive wages but I still don't think salary is paramount to people taking up the profession.
What's need is innovative ideas to keep a stable, dedicated and well trained workforce.


If you have greater numbers to deal with then you have the luxury to separate the wheat from the chaff, so yes competitive salaries will help that. I'm not questioning other reasons for choosing to be a teacher but if you wish to support a growing population then growth is needed in the teaching workforce.
#20
sassie
i read that exactly as you had typed it, pay them more and you will get a teacher of better quality


I'm sure it says MIGHT in the sentence, please. :whistling:
banned#21
Alfonse
I'm sure it says MIGHT in the sentence, please. :whistling:


my opinion was better pay does not make better teachers, my opinion not yours, i never said anywhere about your opinion, but you still jumped down my throat, it seems you are not able to discuss rationally without take peoples opinions as some kind of personal insult so will leave it there
#22
sassie
my opinion was better pay does not make better teachers, my opinion not yours, i never said anywhere about your opinion, but you still jumped down my throat, it seems you are not able to discuss rationally without take peoples opinions as some kind of personal insult so will leave it there


Back tracking is fine by me. Its highly unlikely your post was in reply to anyone else's since no-else had raised the issue of pay and workforce shortage other than me and it was good sense to stay within that context.
banned#23
Alfonse
Back tracking is fine by me. Its highly unlikely your post was in reply to anyone else's since no-else had raised the issue of pay other than me and it was good sense to stay within that context.


thats a real shame you feel i backtrack, but your opinion not mine

As you seem to have a big family that are in this profession maybe you will know about sats, when it first came out and why they came out, and how you feel this has helped? either the children or the teaching profession?
#24
Unfortunately I feel the measures that are being discussed in terms of CCTV need to be in place for the protection of both the teachers and pupils, violence against teachers is increasing and amazingly the amount a teacher can do to restrain a pupil is becoming less. Also fraudulent claims against male teachers from female pupils as act of revenge have increased but once cleared its too late and another teacher is lost.

The measures involving routine assessing for the teachers and pupils are valid, someone has to be there if a teacher slacks off, to give a well guided boost of encouragement or moral support. The same applies to the pupils continual assessment can monitor both performance and lessons in life, basically in a work situation if you don't work and maintain a certain level of productivity you will find yourself looking for another job.

Parents also want to know that the teachers are doing a good job as well as their son or daughter, sometimes a little monitoring for piece of mind goes a long way and at any rate 'good' teachers have nothing to fear. The same as the general public from the army of CCTV's that see us everyday, its the criminals that need to cover up.
banned#25
At my old school we had alot of CCTV and Megaphones on the walls where the Headteacher would call people from the playground to their Office, now that is Big Brother lol
#26
I'm a teacher.
#27
chesso
I'm a teacher.


lol I was/am waiting on the edge of my seat for the rest ??

And no , not being sarcastic, it would be really good to have your viewpoint chesso if you feel able to do so. :)

No pressure there then ! :p
1 Like #28
I have so much that I could say and will, in future, but I am really exhausted. All 5 lessons today with an extra masterclass (paid extra) after school to boost Y9 for SATS. 2 big pracs. ITT (student teacher) to prep for after Easter hols. I have 2 x Y8 module tests and 2 x Y8/7 level assessed tests to mark and 3 x kS4 ISA exams. (That's in the holiday along with prep for next term and thinking about next year;s new AS levels and the latest changes to KS3.) The more acronyms the more work, the more tests, the more assessments. It does seem as if we are trying to remove content and only assess- what is left to assess in the end? I have been to meetings where fellow science teachers have been convinced that it is valid to have 'discussions' in science lessons where they have not been taught any of the relevant science and where they do not need to learn the science because everyone's opinion is valid - even if you are 14 and don't know any of the facts.
CCTV I would have it everywhere for protection of teachers. Right, probably not even on topic but you got me started.
Cup of tea for me.
#29
chesso
I have so much that I could say and will, in future, but I am really exhausted. All 5 lessons today with an extra masterclass (paid extra) after school to boost Y9 for SATS. 2 big pracs. ITT (student teacher) to prep for after Easter hols. I have 2 x Y8 module tests and 2 x Y8/7 level assessed tests to mark and 3 x kS4 ISA exams. (That's in the holiday along with prep for next term and thinking about next year;s new AS levels and the latest changes to KS3.) The more acronyms the more work, the more tests, the more assessments. It does seem as if we are trying to remove content and only assess- what is left to assess in the end? I have been to meetings where fellow science teachers have been convinced that it is valid to have 'discussions' in science lessons where they have not been taught any of the relevant science and where they do not need to learn the science because everyone's opinion is valid - even if you are 14 and don't know any of the facts.
CCTV I would have it everywhere for protection of teachers. Right, probably not even on topic but you got me started.
Cup of tea for me.


Thanks for the brief insight chesso and apologies, I only saw you had had a rough day AFTER posting the above.
Get your gin, erm, cup of tea and relax. :thumbsup:
#30
chesso
I have so much that I could say and will, in future, but I am really exhausted. All 5 lessons today with an extra masterclass (paid extra) after school to boost Y9 for SATS. 2 big pracs. ITT (student teacher) to prep for after Easter hols. I have 2 x Y8 module tests and 2 x Y8/7 level assessed tests to mark and 3 x kS4 ISA exams. (That's in the holiday along with prep for next term and thinking about next year;s new AS levels and the latest changes to KS3.) The more acronyms the more work, the more tests, the more assessments. It does seem as if we are trying to remove content and only assess- what is left to assess in the end? I have been to meetings where fellow science teachers have been convinced that it is valid to have 'discussions' in science lessons where they have not been taught any of the relevant science and where they do not need to learn the science because everyone's opinion is valid - even if you are 14 and don't know any of the facts.
CCTV I would have it everywhere for protection of teachers. Right, probably not even on topic but you got me started.
Cup of tea for me.


blimey...chesso, respect from me.

I have friends who are teachers and I wouldn't swap, however, I know they both have different experiences and have so far resisted the lure of the private sector...however, for how much longer I don't know, the lack of support, abusiveness and sheer level of work is really getting one of them down, however, the other (in a different school, same age groups) has a far better working environment, which means she finds the workload easier to deal with...
#31
Thanks hottoshop and AS. xx

Just tired tonight. I only work part-time so shouldn't moan at all. Something got me started ( no, not Simply Red). I love teaching and the vast majority of my pupils are great. If only governments would stop treating teaching as if it's a 'business' - set a target & blah-di-blah, success.

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