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Labour's 'leaked' manifesto

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Some lovely ideas, some rejoicing in it taking us back to the 70s, lots of spending ideas that will appeal voters... But it's all funded by taxing investment, corporations and people who have worke… Read More
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals Avatar
1m, 2w agoPosted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
Some lovely ideas, some rejoicing in it taking us back to the 70s, lots of spending ideas that will appeal voters...

But it's all funded by taxing investment, corporations and people who have worked hard to get a good wage. It's the politics of envy and division once again. I'm not sure it is a suicide note because I think a lot of people will vote to penalise the well-off. As yet we don't know how much of an increase in tax will hit those who drive the economy but with Brexit going ahead can we afford to make Britain even less attractive to foreign workers and investment?
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals Avatar
1m, 2w agoPosted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
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(5)
21 Likes
From what I've read it sounds like a very good manifesto and is to help the majority, not the few.
It goes into a lot of detail and would benefit 95% of the population.

HEAWD if you cannot see the exploitation through zero hour contracts then you should do a bit more research. I suggest starting with Sports Direct's main warehouse.

Also, there is hard working to get paid more but how you have to draw a line somewhere. It's not fair that the Board of a company can see their wages increase whilst 99% of their workforce's wages stagnante.

This was no doubt leaked by one of the chicken coup traitors.

Edited By: dtovey89 on May 11, 2017 09:10: May 11, 2017 09:10
19 Likes
I wonder how many of the policies in this Labour manifesto the Tories will nick and parade as their own within a few years.

Not many by the looks.

The way the Daily Mail reported Ed Milliband's proposal to cap energy prices and then Theresa May's proposal to do exactly the same thing was hilarious mind.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_XdnNtWAAAs2qO.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_XdmwhXkAAx3Pe.jpg

Edited By: CaptainSocks on May 11, 2017 09:07: May 11, 2017 09:07
10 Likes
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
You haven't told me why employers wouldn't be giving more hours on a consistent basis to their best workers. You don't want to say what it is you need to say which is this


It doesn't surprise me that you think like that considering you are Capitalism's poster boy.

Zero hour contracts aren't used to benefit the hard workers. They are used to exploit them. If these people are constantly coming in and working lots of hours then give them a proper contract ffs.
It's also used to get rid of workers a lot quicker and to bring in replacements faster.

Everyone deserves equal working rights and zero hour contracts do not provide that.
10 Likes
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Also can someone explain the problem with zero-hours contracts?Ignoring the evidence that they're popular with workers apparently, employers will always want good workers to work more. So if you're on a zero hours contract but impressing the employer, you'll get more hours right?So who do these contracts negatively impact? Could it be bad workers who employers don't want to give hours to? What does labour have against the notion of working hard to get better rewards? Why is that something that needs penalising, whereas being a poor worker needs protecting and rewarding? This is why so many people can't vote for labour.


You can't be serious, you must be trolling, but for anyone else who genuinely doesn't know why 0-hour contracts are bad.
Fewer rights, No sick pay, maternity/paternity etc. Job security is out the window as is the ability to buy a house. You also get employers taking on more staff at lower hours rather than full time because it is easier to fill the gap with part timers when they leave/ill. Then we have the wider picture of people on low hours, the employer will not contribute to National Insurance if less than 16hours making the future pension pot even more precarious. The government will have to top up the employees wages via Tax credits and because fewer people will be able to buy a house, housing benefit will increase.

I fell into the trap of bogus self employment working as a courier for DHL, I would actually say I'd rather be on 0-hour contract than Bogus SE but thankfully loads of cases are being brought against those that use them. I can see 0-hour contacts following suit. AgeUK are starting to change their 0H carers to employed. I think labour would accelerate this process but it is happening slowly under Mrs May anyway.
6 Likes
CaptainSocks
I wonder how many of the policies in this Labour manifesto the Tories will nick and parade as their own within a few years. Not many by the looks. The way the Daily Mail reported Ed Milliband's proposal to cap energy prices and then Theresa May's proposal to do exactly the same thing was hilarious mind.


That's how the media works to influence sufficient amount of people to push their own twisted views.

Edit
just imagine if that headline was for Ed Miliband , I'm sure a lot of ppl woulda said "oh at last Labour are coming out with some good ideas".
I'm not a massive fan if Labour but I am in favour of a fairer society even if it's at the determine of my personal income.

I keep banging on about don't get influenced by the media and this story just proves how people can be manipulated.

Edited By: Joey.Bloggsy on May 11, 2017 09:42: .

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3 Likes #1
Usual Labour, Tax Big, Spend without results, leave a note for the next Government to clear up the mess and cutback!

https://feeds.thetimes.co.uk/web/imageserver/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprodmigration%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F3c4b08d1-4d48-3cad-9aea-d595c34c7454.jpg?crop=1500,1000,0,0&resize=600
#2
Also can someone explain the problem with zero-hours contracts?

Ignoring the evidence that they're popular with workers apparently, employers will always want good workers to work more. So if you're on a zero hours contract but impressing the employer, you'll get more hours right?

So who do these contracts negatively impact? Could it be bad workers who employers don't want to give hours to?

What does labour have against the notion of working hard to get better rewards? Why is that something that needs penalising, whereas being a poor worker needs protecting and rewarding? This is why so many people can't vote for labour.
#3
I was going to take a look at the actual document later. It will certainly appeal to people, and short term it's economic plans are OK'd by the IFS.

From what I have read in articles though I agree with you. It doesn't appeal to me.
#4
I feel like putting on a polyester shirt and flares.
#5
davewave
Usual Labour, Tax Big, Spend without results, leave a note for the next Government to clear up the mess and cutback!https://feeds.thetimes.co.uk/web/imageserver/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprodmigration%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F3c4b08d1-4d48-3cad-9aea-d595c34c7454.jpg?crop=1500,1000,0,0&resize=600
That's a nice bit of LibDem propaganda. Are you a LibDem supporter, dave? I'd always thought that your views were a considerable way to the right of that bunch of Judases.
#6
i would not say its going back to the 70's that's Labour at its core.

Labour higher taxes more investment to public services.
Conservative = lower taxes less investment into public services as the richer part of society will generally use private services anyway.

Its not a dig at either one (and is a very simple general view). But essentially what im saying is you need a balance, i think a more presidential style system would work better in today's climate. And it will make sure there is new blood every couple of terms.
#7
RonChew
davewave
Usual Labour, Tax Big, Spend without results, leave a note for the next Government to clear up the mess and cutback!https://feeds.thetimes.co.uk/web/imageserver/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprodmigration%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F3c4b08d1-4d48-3cad-9aea-d595c34c7454.jpg?crop=1500,1000,0,0&resize=600
That's a nice bit of LibDem propaganda. Are you a LibDem supporter, dave? I'd always thought that your views were a considerable way to the right of that bunch of Judases.
(No point supporting Lib Dems, they wont get anywhere.)

What did you think about Labour's letter?
2 Likes #8
Well all this money thats been stashed away by the Tories can now be spent.
Speaking frankly, all ive heard from Conservative promises has been negative thus far, and Labour (though some of these idealistic propositions are rather far-fetched) have promised to actually improve services.

Wasnt going to vote labour at all 12 months ago, but somehow im coming round to the idea, as im disliking May more and more the closer she follows Camerons pathetic agenda.. .
#9
Leaked draft manifesto
#10
limpduck
i would not say its going back to the 70's that's Labour at its core.

Labour higher taxes more investment to public services.
Conservative = lower taxes less investment into public services as the richer part of society will generally use private services anyway.


Afraid you have that completely wrong as Hammond has already said he will raise income tax if they get back in power. Conservatives arent afraid to raise taxes and cut public services to stash the money elsewhere
1 Like #11
118luke
Well all this money thats been stashed away by the Tories can now be spent.
Speaking frankly, all ive heard from Conservative promises has been negative thus far, and Labour (though some of these idealistic propositions are rather far-fetched) have promised to actually improve services.
Wasnt going to vote labour at all 12 months ago, but somehow im coming round to the idea, as im disliking May more and more the closer she follows Camerons pathetic agenda.. .

Where does the money to improve services come from?
19 Likes #12
I wonder how many of the policies in this Labour manifesto the Tories will nick and parade as their own within a few years.

Not many by the looks.

The way the Daily Mail reported Ed Milliband's proposal to cap energy prices and then Theresa May's proposal to do exactly the same thing was hilarious mind.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_XdnNtWAAAs2qO.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_XdmwhXkAAx3Pe.jpg

Edited By: CaptainSocks on May 11, 2017 09:07: May 11, 2017 09:07
2 Likes #13
Also I don't get the logic of taxing private schools and private healthcare. These people take a burden OFF the state and in return they're going to be punished for it?

Again I think that a lot of people will like this because we live in a Britain where succeeding in any way just isn't right. Labour seem to be trying to do all they can to limit growth and drive away foreign investment.
21 Likes #14
From what I've read it sounds like a very good manifesto and is to help the majority, not the few.
It goes into a lot of detail and would benefit 95% of the population.

HEAWD if you cannot see the exploitation through zero hour contracts then you should do a bit more research. I suggest starting with Sports Direct's main warehouse.

Also, there is hard working to get paid more but how you have to draw a line somewhere. It's not fair that the Board of a company can see their wages increase whilst 99% of their workforce's wages stagnante.

This was no doubt leaked by one of the chicken coup traitors.

Edited By: dtovey89 on May 11, 2017 09:10: May 11, 2017 09:10
6 Likes #15
CaptainSocks
I wonder how many of the policies in this Labour manifesto the Tories will nick and parade as their own within a few years. Not many by the looks. The way the Daily Mail reported Ed Milliband's proposal to cap energy prices and then Theresa May's proposal to do exactly the same thing was hilarious mind.


That's how the media works to influence sufficient amount of people to push their own twisted views.

Edit
just imagine if that headline was for Ed Miliband , I'm sure a lot of ppl woulda said "oh at last Labour are coming out with some good ideas".
I'm not a massive fan if Labour but I am in favour of a fairer society even if it's at the determine of my personal income.

I keep banging on about don't get influenced by the media and this story just proves how people can be manipulated.

Edited By: Joey.Bloggsy on May 11, 2017 09:42: .
#16
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Also I don't get the logic of taxing private schools and private healthcare. These people take a burden OFF the state and in return they're going to be punished for it?
Again I think that a lot of people will like this because we live in a Britain where succeeding in any way just isn't right. Labour seem to be trying to do all they can to limit growth and drive away foreign investment.

There is no logic, its all about punish the rich. For anyone considering voting Labour, it might be worth checking out how the socialist dream is currently working out for the people of Venezuela, which Corby et al have suddenly gone very quiet about.
#17
dtovey89
From what I've read it sounds like a very good manifesto and is to help the majority, not the few.
It goes into a lot of detail and would benefit 95% of the population.
HEAWD if you cannot see the exploitation through zero hour contracts then you should do a bit more research. I suggest starting with Sports Direct's main warehouse.
Also, there is hard working to get paid more but how you have to draw a line somewhere. It's not fair that the Board of a company can see their wages increase whilst 99% of their workforce's wages stagnante.
This was no doubt leaked by one of the chicken coup traitors.

I'm asking what the problem with zero hours contracts is because I honestly don't know.

Whom do they hurt? Are employers suddenly giving fewer hours to their best workers?

As for the whole 'drawing a line' bit, you're saying you want to limit people's success right? Why?

To me it comes back to an ethos of 'if I can't have it, nobody should' which is pathetic.

Tell me why a woman who has sacrificed and worked hard, raised a family, receives private healthcare through work and pays for private education which takes the burden off the state and already contributes well over £30,000 in tax just through income tax and NI should now be taxed more on her income, her healthcare and her kids education?

Has she not done enough for this country?
#18
DKLS
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Also I don't get the logic of taxing private schools and private healthcare. These people take a burden OFF the state and in return they're going to be punished for it?
Again I think that a lot of people will like this because we live in a Britain where succeeding in any way just isn't right. Labour seem to be trying to do all they can to limit growth and drive away foreign investment.
There is no logic, its all about punish the rich. For anyone considering voting Labour, it might be worth checking out how the socialist dream is currently working out for the people of Venezuela, which Corby et al have suddenly gone very quiet about.

I haven't read anything about taxing private schools but that one does seem odd.
3 Likes #19
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
From what I've read it sounds like a very good manifesto and is to help the majority, not the few.
It goes into a lot of detail and would benefit 95% of the population.
HEAWD if you cannot see the exploitation through zero hour contracts then you should do a bit more research. I suggest starting with Sports Direct's main warehouse.
Also, there is hard working to get paid more but how you have to draw a line somewhere. It's not fair that the Board of a company can see their wages increase whilst 99% of their workforce's wages stagnante.
This was no doubt leaked by one of the chicken coup traitors.
I'm asking what the problem with zero hours contracts is because I honestly don't know.

Whom do they hurt? Are employers suddenly giving fewer hours to their best workers?

As for the whole 'drawing a line' bit, you're saying you want to limit people's success right? Why?

To me it comes back to an ethos of 'if I can't have it, nobody should' which is pathetic.

Tell me why a woman who has sacrificed and worked hard, raised a family, receives private healthcare through work and pays for private education which takes the burden off the state and already contributes well over £30,000 in tax just through income tax and NI should now be taxed more on her income, her healthcare and her kids education?

Has she not done enough for this country?

Zero hour contracts are use to hold workers hostage. I've not seen one good article about them in the numerous years they have been reported on. Imagine sitting at home waiting for a call/text to come into work and nothing for days. Then you have plans or a family emergency and you get asked to come in for 4 hours and if you can't no work for you for another 2 weeks. People cannot lead normal lives with such uncertainty.

I agree with you that private schools shouldn't be taxed extra. It is a strange one - if the parents are earning above 80K each then they will be getting taxed more anyway.
#20
davewave
RonChew
davewave
Usual Labour, Tax Big, Spend without results, leave a note for the next Government to clear up the mess and cutback!https://feeds.thetimes.co.uk/web/imageserver/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprodmigration%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F3c4b08d1-4d48-3cad-9aea-d595c34c7454.jpg?crop=1500,1000,0,0&resize=600
That's a nice bit of LibDem propaganda. Are you a LibDem supporter, dave? I'd always thought that your views were a considerable way to the right of that bunch of Judases.
(No point supporting Lib Dems, they wont get anywhere.)
What did you think about Labour's letter?
It shows some politicians have got a sense of humour though not particularly good judgement.

The sad thing is that some people would have based their voting decision on that letter alone in much the same way that others would have voted Leave purely on the basis of the £350m a day to the NHS propaganda.
#21
dtovey89
DKLS
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Also I don't get the logic of taxing private schools and private healthcare. These people take a burden OFF the state and in return they're going to be punished for it?
Again I think that a lot of people will like this because we live in a Britain where succeeding in any way just isn't right. Labour seem to be trying to do all they can to limit growth and drive away foreign investment.
There is no logic, its all about punish the rich. For anyone considering voting Labour, it might be worth checking out how the socialist dream is currently working out for the people of Venezuela, which Corby et al have suddenly gone very quiet about.
I haven't read anything about taxing private schools but that one does seem odd.
It's not a direct tax.

Just VAT (at a reduced rate).

I'm public school educated. This wouldn't have made any difference to my folks but perhaps some proles wouldn't then be able to afford private school fees (they certainly can't afford public school fees even now).

I suspect putting VAT on private school fees wouldn't actually see a price rise in many areas. It stands to reason most private schools are already charging the maximum rate they can anyway. It would cut into their profits first and foremost I'd have thought.
1 Like #22
RonChew
davewave
RonChew
davewave
Usual Labour, Tax Big, Spend without results, leave a note for the next Government to clear up the mess and cutback!https://feeds.thetimes.co.uk/web/imageserver/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprodmigration%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F3c4b08d1-4d48-3cad-9aea-d595c34c7454.jpg?crop=1500,1000,0,0&resize=600
That's a nice bit of LibDem propaganda. Are you a LibDem supporter, dave? I'd always thought that your views were a considerable way to the right of that bunch of Judases.
(No point supporting Lib Dems, they wont get anywhere.)
What did you think about Labour's letter?
It shows some politicians have got a sense of humour though not particularly good judgement.
The sad thing is that some people would have based their voting decision on that letter alone in much the same way that others would have voted Leave purely on the basis of the £350m a day to the NHS propaganda.

Yes, things like this stick in peoples minds rather than a detailed manifesto spelling out policies.
It's the age of sound bites and individual events. Critical thinking went out the window a long time ago.

Britain truly has one of the most irritating societies.
#23
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
From what I've read it sounds like a very good manifesto and is to help the majority, not the few.
It goes into a lot of detail and would benefit 95% of the population.
HEAWD if you cannot see the exploitation through zero hour contracts then you should do a bit more research. I suggest starting with Sports Direct's main warehouse.
Also, there is hard working to get paid more but how you have to draw a line somewhere. It's not fair that the Board of a company can see their wages increase whilst 99% of their workforce's wages stagnante.
This was no doubt leaked by one of the chicken coup traitors.
I'm asking what the problem with zero hours contracts is because I honestly don't know.
Whom do they hurt? Are employers suddenly giving fewer hours to their best workers?
As for the whole 'drawing a line' bit, you're saying you want to limit people's success right? Why?
To me it comes back to an ethos of 'if I can't have it, nobody should' which is pathetic.
Tell me why a woman who has sacrificed and worked hard, raised a family, receives private healthcare through work and pays for private education which takes the burden off the state and already contributes well over £30,000 in tax just through income tax and NI should now be taxed more on her income, her healthcare and her kids education?
Has she not done enough for this country?
Zero hour contracts are use to hold workers hostage. I've not seen one good article about them in the numerous years they have been reported on. Imagine sitting at home waiting for a call/text to come into work and nothing for days. Then you have plans or a family emergency and you get asked to come in for 4 hours and if you can't no work for you for another 2 weeks. People cannot lead normal lives with such uncertainty.
I agree with you that private schools shouldn't be taxed extra. It is a strange one - if the parents are earning above 80K each then they will be getting taxed more anyway.

You haven't told me why employers wouldn't be giving more hours on a consistent basis to their best workers.

You don't want to say what it is you need to say which is this

Zero-hours contracts are bad because they don't guarantee hours to mediocre or bad workers.

That's the truth isn't it? Labour wants to punish hard workers, but they also think it's unfair that poor workers have to suffer the consequences of being poor workers.

Am I wrong?

And of course private education shouldn't be exempt from tax under Labour because it's not fair that wealthier families can have something. It's not fair that if you work harder you get more.

The labour manifesto is based on the idea that working hard should be penalised whilst being a lazy worker shouldn't be punished.

I actually like some of their policies regarding trains, the pay gap and a few others but punishing successful individuals and killing private investment can't be the way we pay for it,
1 Like #24
Good old Labour ,the politics of envy :( . It has been proven many times in the relatively recent past that increasing the rate of Corporation Tax actually reduces the nett take and of course leads to a lack of investment . Similarly increasing the top rates of tax also reduces the nett take .

I also see there are a few privatisations in there to keep Corbyn's Union paymasters happy - oh dear Labour never learn !
4 Likes #25
The Tories problem with this (to my mind, and as a lifelong Tory voter) is that their economic argument hasn't yet stacked up either.

The national debt has doubled since 2010.

Wage growth is at its lowest since the 1800s.

Cuts to corporation tax and for the rich HAVEN'T stimulated the economy (in fact we now look to be going backwards again).

Austerity isn't saving as much as it promised because by cutting services we're suddenly putting an expensive strain on other services.

I must admit I'm better off quite substantially since the Tories got in.

The corporation tax cut in particular has been well used in these parts.

But I haven't spent any of the extra money I've been allowed to keep in the UK economy.

A couple of extra holidays a year I suppose.

A few new TVs direct from the manufacturer based abroad.

Lots of tat on here.

House in France tarted up.

But nothing that's going to significantly help grow the UK economy..

Trickle down is a myth these days.

If you let me keep more of my cash I simple spend most of it abroad.
10 Likes #26
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
You haven't told me why employers wouldn't be giving more hours on a consistent basis to their best workers. You don't want to say what it is you need to say which is this


It doesn't surprise me that you think like that considering you are Capitalism's poster boy.

Zero hour contracts aren't used to benefit the hard workers. They are used to exploit them. If these people are constantly coming in and working lots of hours then give them a proper contract ffs.
It's also used to get rid of workers a lot quicker and to bring in replacements faster.

Everyone deserves equal working rights and zero hour contracts do not provide that.
#27
dtovey89
DKLS
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Also I don't get the logic of taxing private schools and private healthcare. These people take a burden OFF the state and in return they're going to be punished for it?
Again I think that a lot of people will like this because we live in a Britain where succeeding in any way just isn't right. Labour seem to be trying to do all they can to limit growth and drive away foreign investment.
There is no logic, its all about punish the rich. For anyone considering voting Labour, it might be worth checking out how the socialist dream is currently working out for the people of Venezuela, which Corby et al have suddenly gone very quiet about.
I haven't read anything about taxing private schools but that one does seem odd.

From the leaked manifesto:

✔️Free School Meals for children aged 4-11, costing £900m which will be raised by placing VAT on Independent Schools which will raise £1.1bn+

I just hope that it wasn't Abbot who did the addy up numbers thing.
#28
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

You haven't told me why employers wouldn't be giving more hours on a consistent basis to their best workers.
You don't want to say what it is you need to say which is this
It doesn't surprise me that you think like that considering you are Capitalism's poster boy.
Zero hour contracts aren't used to benefit the hard workers. They are used to exploit them. If these people are constantly coming in and working lots of hours then give them a proper contract ffs.
It's also used to get rid of workers a lot quicker and to bring in replacements faster.
Everyone deserves equal working rights and zero hour contracts do not provide that.

You haven't told me why employers wouldn't give hours to better workers. I had contracts as a younger man that were 8-12 hours guaranteed. It was perfect because it worked around Uni. When I needed more I got more because I was good. Others who weren't, didn't.

That's not capitalism, that's just fair. Does a poor player deserve more time on the pitch at the expense of better players or should the coach pick his best players to get the best results? A hamfisted analogy but you get my point right?

I have no problem with nationalising essential services either. There are some great private train companies but also some bad ones so bringing them into national ownership could be good for workers.
#29
DKLS
dtovey89
DKLS
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Also I don't get the logic of taxing private schools and private healthcare. These people take a burden OFF the state and in return they're going to be punished for it?
Again I think that a lot of people will like this because we live in a Britain where succeeding in any way just isn't right. Labour seem to be trying to do all they can to limit growth and drive away foreign investment.
There is no logic, its all about punish the rich. For anyone considering voting Labour, it might be worth checking out how the socialist dream is currently working out for the people of Venezuela, which Corby et al have suddenly gone very quiet about.
I haven't read anything about taxing private schools but that one does seem odd.
From the leaked manifesto:
✔️Free School Meals for children aged 4-11, costing £900m which will be raised by placing VAT on Independent Schools which will raise £1.1bn+
I just hope that it wasn't Abbot who did the addy up numbers thing.

Cheers
#30
RonChew
davewave
RonChew
davewave
Usual Labour, Tax Big, Spend without results, leave a note for the next Government to clear up the mess and cutback!https://feeds.thetimes.co.uk/web/imageserver/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprodmigration%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F3c4b08d1-4d48-3cad-9aea-d595c34c7454.jpg?crop=1500,1000,0,0&resize=600
That's a nice bit of LibDem propaganda. Are you a LibDem supporter, dave? I'd always thought that your views were a considerable way to the right of that bunch of Judases.
(No point supporting Lib Dems, they wont get anywhere.)
What did you think about Labour's letter?
It shows some politicians have got a sense of humour though not particularly good judgement.
The sad thing is that some people would have based their voting decision on that letter alone in much the same way that others would have voted Leave purely on the basis of the £350m a day to the NHS propaganda.
Have we Brexit-ed yet?
1 Like #31
CaptainSocks
The Tories problem with this (to my mind, and as a lifelong Tory voter) is that their economic argument hasn't yet stacked up either.

The national debt has doubled since 2010.

Wage growth is at its lowest since the 1800s.

Cuts to corporation tax and for the rich HAVEN'T stimulated the economy (in fact we now look to be going backwards again).

Austerity isn't saving as much as it promised because by cutting services we're suddenly putting an expensive strain on other services.

I must admit I'm better off quite substantially since the Tories got in.

The corporation tax cut in particular has been well used in these parts.

But I haven't spent any of the extra money I've been allowed to keep in the UK economy.

A couple of extra holidays a year I suppose.

A few new TVs direct from the manufacturer based abroad.

Lots of tat on here.

House in France tarted up.

But nothing that's going to significantly help grow the UK economy..

Trickle down is a myth these days.

If you let me keep more of my cash I simple spend most of it abroad.

My view is that we have two economies. For many the economy has been good. Wages have risen, especially in professional jobs.

But there's areas of extreme deprivation where jobs have been exported to cheaper countries. I don't really know what the answer is for that but penalising the success of those especially in the cities seems like a punishment.

There are people who sacrificed massively so that they didn't have to work in sports direct, but the Labour Party and it's supporters think that's unfair on the sports direct worker.
2 Likes #32
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
You haven't told me why employers wouldn't give hours to better workers. I had contracts as a younger man that were 8-12 hours guaranteed.

I must have worked more than you whilst at Uni. I had a part time contract. Completely different to a zero hour contract. I too was offered more shifts which I almost always took but I always had more core hours to fall back on.

I'm no longer interested in discussing the topic with you as you seem to be purposely ignoring the difference.
1 Like #33
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
You haven't told me why employers wouldn't give hours to better workers. I had contracts as a younger man that were 8-12 hours guaranteed.
I must have worked more than you whilst at Uni. I had a part time contract. Completely different to a zero hour contract. I too was offered more shifts which I almost always took but I always had more core hours to fall back on.
I'm no longer interested in discussing the topic with you as you seem to be purposely ignoring the difference.

I do understand the difference. I've acknowledged the difference.

What I'm asking is why an employer wouldn't always give hours to the better workers.

I know why you don't want to answer and I sympathise. You don't want to say that zero hours contracts aren't actually a bad thing for people who work hard because they invariably get a larger number of hours.

You don't want to say that zero hours contracts aren't good for people that employers are less Likely to give hours to.

That's fine, but don't act like I'm not engaging with your points.
1 Like #34
But if you don't want to discuss contracts then answer me this.

A person works hard and gets a job with private health insurance.
They pay income tax and NI that funds the NHS but don't actually place a burden on it because of their insurance.
The private health provider pays corporation tax.

Why then should we raise tax on private healthcare products?
10 Likes #35
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Also can someone explain the problem with zero-hours contracts?Ignoring the evidence that they're popular with workers apparently, employers will always want good workers to work more. So if you're on a zero hours contract but impressing the employer, you'll get more hours right?So who do these contracts negatively impact? Could it be bad workers who employers don't want to give hours to? What does labour have against the notion of working hard to get better rewards? Why is that something that needs penalising, whereas being a poor worker needs protecting and rewarding? This is why so many people can't vote for labour.


You can't be serious, you must be trolling, but for anyone else who genuinely doesn't know why 0-hour contracts are bad.
Fewer rights, No sick pay, maternity/paternity etc. Job security is out the window as is the ability to buy a house. You also get employers taking on more staff at lower hours rather than full time because it is easier to fill the gap with part timers when they leave/ill. Then we have the wider picture of people on low hours, the employer will not contribute to National Insurance if less than 16hours making the future pension pot even more precarious. The government will have to top up the employees wages via Tax credits and because fewer people will be able to buy a house, housing benefit will increase.

I fell into the trap of bogus self employment working as a courier for DHL, I would actually say I'd rather be on 0-hour contract than Bogus SE but thankfully loads of cases are being brought against those that use them. I can see 0-hour contacts following suit. AgeUK are starting to change their 0H carers to employed. I think labour would accelerate this process but it is happening slowly under Mrs May anyway.
1 Like #36
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
From what I've read it sounds like a very good manifesto and is to help the majority, not the few.
It goes into a lot of detail and would benefit 95% of the population.
HEAWD if you cannot see the exploitation through zero hour contracts then you should do a bit more research. I suggest starting with Sports Direct's main warehouse.
Also, there is hard working to get paid more but how you have to draw a line somewhere. It's not fair that the Board of a company can see their wages increase whilst 99% of their workforce's wages stagnante.
This was no doubt leaked by one of the chicken coup traitors.
I'm asking what the problem with zero hours contracts is because I honestly don't know.
Whom do they hurt? Are employers suddenly giving fewer hours to their best workers?
As for the whole 'drawing a line' bit, you're saying you want to limit people's success right? Why?
To me it comes back to an ethos of 'if I can't have it, nobody should' which is pathetic.
Tell me why a woman who has sacrificed and worked hard, raised a family, receives private healthcare through work and pays for private education which takes the burden off the state and already contributes well over £30,000 in tax just through income tax and NI should now be taxed more on her income, her healthcare and her kids education?
Has she not done enough for this country?
Zero hour contracts are use to hold workers hostage. I've not seen one good article about them in the numerous years they have been reported on. Imagine sitting at home waiting for a call/text to come into work and nothing for days. Then you have plans or a family emergency and you get asked to come in for 4 hours and if you can't no work for you for another 2 weeks. People cannot lead normal lives with such uncertainty.
I agree with you that private schools shouldn't be taxed extra. It is a strange one - if the parents are earning above 80K each then they will be getting taxed more anyway.

When I did them they were very useful to me and my situation, I had a crappy day job paying peanuts but was a handy start for my CV and career, so signed up to a catering agency for Bar work and Waitering, if i wasn't up to it I could turn down a shift but also take on as many gigs as I wanted. The tips were great, sometimes fantastic, so was the free food and the free nightclub tickets. As well as getting to attend some good events like Premiership matches, F1 and Horse Races.
1 Like #37
DKLS
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
From what I've read it sounds like a very good manifesto and is to help the majority, not the few.
It goes into a lot of detail and would benefit 95% of the population.
HEAWD if you cannot see the exploitation through zero hour contracts then you should do a bit more research. I suggest starting with Sports Direct's main warehouse.
Also, there is hard working to get paid more but how you have to draw a line somewhere. It's not fair that the Board of a company can see their wages increase whilst 99% of their workforce's wages stagnante.
This was no doubt leaked by one of the chicken coup traitors.
I'm asking what the problem with zero hours contracts is because I honestly don't know.
Whom do they hurt? Are employers suddenly giving fewer hours to their best workers?
As for the whole 'drawing a line' bit, you're saying you want to limit people's success right? Why?
To me it comes back to an ethos of 'if I can't have it, nobody should' which is pathetic.
Tell me why a woman who has sacrificed and worked hard, raised a family, receives private healthcare through work and pays for private education which takes the burden off the state and already contributes well over £30,000 in tax just through income tax and NI should now be taxed more on her income, her healthcare and her kids education?
Has she not done enough for this country?
Zero hour contracts are use to hold workers hostage. I've not seen one good article about them in the numerous years they have been reported on. Imagine sitting at home waiting for a call/text to come into work and nothing for days. Then you have plans or a family emergency and you get asked to come in for 4 hours and if you can't no work for you for another 2 weeks. People cannot lead normal lives with such uncertainty.
I agree with you that private schools shouldn't be taxed extra. It is a strange one - if the parents are earning above 80K each then they will be getting taxed more anyway.
When I did them they were very useful to me and my situation, I had a crappy day job paying peanuts but was a handy start for my CV and career, so signed up to a catering agency for Bar work and Waitering, if i wasn't up to it I could turn down a shift but also take on as many gigs as I wanted. The tips were great, sometimes fantastic, so was the free food and the free nightclub tickets. As well as getting to attend some good events like Premiership matches, F1 and Horse Races.
Unfortunately your comment doesn't fit with the Far Left agenda. The concept of hard work being rewarded goes against their unionised shambles.
#38
The really dumb thing is that Labour are promising to throw Billions at schools the NHS etc all funded by the non existent extra Billions they will get from higher taxes - Bonkers ! as recent history shows , sadly I think its much too late for a reality check for a throwback to the loony left party of the 1960s/1970s :(

Edited By: rogparki on May 11, 2017 10:05
#39
splatsplatsplat
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Also can someone explain the problem with zero-hours contracts?
Ignoring the evidence that they're popular with workers apparently, employers will always want good workers to work more. So if you're on a zero hours contract but impressing the employer, you'll get more hours right?
So who do these contracts negatively impact? Could it be bad workers who employers don't want to give hours to?
What does labour have against the notion of working hard to get better rewards? Why is that something that needs penalising, whereas being a poor worker needs protecting and rewarding? This is why so many people can't vote for labour.
You can't be serious, you must be trolling, but for anyone else who genuinely doesn't know why 0-hour contracts are bad.
Fewer rights, No sick pay, maternity/paternity etc. Job security is out the window as is the ability to buy a house. You also get employers taking on more staff at lower hours rather than full time because it is easier to fill the gap with part timers when they leave/ill. Then we have the wider picture of people on low hours, the employer will not contribute to National Insurance if less than 16hours making the future pension pot even more precarious. The government will have to top up the employees wages via Tax credits and because fewer people will be able to buy a house, housing benefit will increase.
I fell into the trap of bogus self employment working as a courier for DHL, I would actually say I'd rather be on 0-hour contract than Bogus SE but thankfully loads of cases are being brought against those that use them. I can see 0-hour contacts following suit. AgeUK are starting to change their 0H carers to employed. I think labour would accelerate this process but it is happening slowly under Mrs May anyway.

Again, why wouldn't an employer make sure their best workers were working more hours?

The argument that you're putting forward against zero-hours contracts is that it's unfair on poor workers. They can't buy a house, they won't have a great pension etc. but you blame that on the zero-hours contract not guaranteeing them hours.

Should their work ethic and value to the company not be what guarantees them hours? Does an 8 hour or 12 hour guaranteed contract make much difference?
#40
davewave
DKLS
dtovey89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
dtovey89
From what I've read it sounds like a very good manifesto and is to help the majority, not the few.
It goes into a lot of detail and would benefit 95% of the population.
HEAWD if you cannot see the exploitation through zero hour contracts then you should do a bit more research. I suggest starting with Sports Direct's main warehouse.
Also, there is hard working to get paid more but how you have to draw a line somewhere. It's not fair that the Board of a company can see their wages increase whilst 99% of their workforce's wages stagnante.
This was no doubt leaked by one of the chicken coup traitors.
I'm asking what the problem with zero hours contracts is because I honestly don't know.
Whom do they hurt? Are employers suddenly giving fewer hours to their best workers?
As for the whole 'drawing a line' bit, you're saying you want to limit people's success right? Why?
To me it comes back to an ethos of 'if I can't have it, nobody should' which is pathetic.
Tell me why a woman who has sacrificed and worked hard, raised a family, receives private healthcare through work and pays for private education which takes the burden off the state and already contributes well over £30,000 in tax just through income tax and NI should now be taxed more on her income, her healthcare and her kids education?
Has she not done enough for this country?
Zero hour contracts are use to hold workers hostage. I've not seen one good article about them in the numerous years they have been reported on. Imagine sitting at home waiting for a call/text to come into work and nothing for days. Then you have plans or a family emergency and you get asked to come in for 4 hours and if you can't no work for you for another 2 weeks. People cannot lead normal lives with such uncertainty.
I agree with you that private schools shouldn't be taxed extra. It is a strange one - if the parents are earning above 80K each then they will be getting taxed more anyway.
When I did them they were very useful to me and my situation, I had a crappy day job paying peanuts but was a handy start for my CV and career, so signed up to a catering agency for Bar work and Waitering, if i wasn't up to it I could turn down a shift but also take on as many gigs as I wanted. The tips were great, sometimes fantastic, so was the free food and the free nightclub tickets. As well as getting to attend some good events like Premiership matches, F1 and Horse Races.
Unfortunately your comment doesn't fit with the Far Left agenda. The concept of hard work being rewarded goes against their unionised shambles.

I blame my grandfather for instilling a work ethic into me.

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