Mother going into home but got a house worth £250,000 what can we do to keep it? - HotUKDeals
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Mother going into home but got a house worth £250,000 what can we do to keep it?

garbage456 Avatar
8y, 5m agoPosted 8 years, 5 months ago
hi mother is going into a home as she needs 24 hour care but she has a got a house worth £250,000 mother and us do not want to lose it, any ideas please?
garbage456 Avatar
8y, 5m agoPosted 8 years, 5 months ago
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#1
Sell it to yourself?
#2
rent it??
banned#3
is it full nursing care? or residential?
#4
Setting up a family trust is one way of transferring the ownership of your home or other assets to someone else while you're still alive. You should get advice from a solicitor on this because the law surrounding trusts is complicated.


You can get advice here as well...

http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/AgeConcern/fs40.asp
banned#5
is the £250,000 home your grans?
#6
That happened to my neighbour about 10 years ago.
She's still alive now, just reached her 100th birthday. I'm sure all of the money from the house is now gone. It's so unfair.
#7
I'll live in it if you like. ;)

now actually i'll be serious, do rent it as you can then use the money from the rent to pay for her accomodation, then you won loose out. :)
that's if she's okayw ith it being rented out!
#8
Forsaken
rent it??


I would suggest that to. Rent it out to some1 - if still some mortgage payments that'd help cover, otherwise it can go towards care and beer.
banned#9
garbage456
24 hour nursing care.


is your mother in hospital at the mo, and needs full nursing care, the rules covering this differ between nursing care and residential care
#10
garbage456
how can i do that if i havent got the money


But your paying yourself :thumbsup:
#11
Legally they have the right to take this house as her asset whether you're renting it out or not. See a solicitor as soon as possible as I think there is a six month period when the government can still recognise her house as an asset even if she transfers ownership to a member of her family.
#12
you cant rent it out the house if your mums and when she goes into care they will want to take the house as payment for her care.
We bought the house from my mum inlaw before she went into care - all the children bought between them and for a smaller amount that it was actually worth - I am afraid that the goverment will want to take your mums money and use it for care - my mother in laws care is £700 per week - disgusting i think as she definately doesnt get £700 worth of care - it is not even nursing care just a home, she gets her food and bed and all laundry done - thats it
banned#13
choc1969
Legally they have the right to take this house as her asset whether you're renting it out or not. See a solicitor as soon as possible as I think there is a six month period when the government can still recognise her house as an asset even if she transfers ownership to a member of her family.


it is alot longer than 6 months
#14
garbage456;2433534
no the mortgage is paid


If the mortgage is paid then the house is hers, all she has to do is transfer ownership to you or something.

Or she can just rent it out or sell it.
#15
become a squatter and get rights
#16
Legislation under section 47 of the Community Care Act states that anyone requiring care will be assessed by their local social services and if that assessment confirms care is required a means test will be carried out, during which you must disclose full details of your assets. These will include property currently or previously owned, whether jointly, or as tenants in common to determine if you or Social Services should pay for care and nursing home fees.
Local government broadly speaking pays your nursing home fees if you have assets of less than £21,000 in England and Northern Ireland (£21,500 in Wales and £20,000 in Scotland).
However if you have been prudent and managed to save for your later years, own your home or have savings it is likely that you will be liable for the majority of your Long Term Care costs.
A Local Authority may exercise its right of investigation to confirm that your home or assets have not been gifted in an attempt at avoiding Nursing Home Fees (known as Deprivation of Assets). They have far reaching powers to recover any assets disposed of in this way including the right to demand the return of those assets.
#17
sassie
it is alot longer than 6 months


I'm pretty sure you're right.

A Local Authority may exercise its right of investigation to confirm that your home or assets have not been gifted in an attempt at avoiding Nursing Home Fees (known as Deprivation of Assets). They have far reaching powers to recover any assets disposed of in this way including the right to demand the return of those assets


They wanted to know what gifts/money etc had been given out in the previous 3 years with my neighbour.
#18
sassie;2433581
it is alot longer than 6 months


You are right......b*stard govt.

See article:

A woman of 91 is being sued after giving her home to her son instead of selling it to pay nursing home charges. The legal test case brought by Emily Youngman’s council could see thousands of elderly homeowners forced to deprive their families of an inheritance.
Suffolk County Council is threatening to bankrupt the frail pensioner if she fails to pay the £280 a week fees for her nursing home care.
In a writ at the High Court in London, the council claims she gave £100,000 cottage at Blundeston to her only son 5 years ago to avoid having to sell it to raise cash for nursing home fees. The council, which describes itself as a “victim” in the action, claims she gave away the detached Victorian house to put it beyond their reach so they could not force her to sell it.
The council is asking the High Court to set aside a “declaration of trust” giving the property to her son.
Mr Youngman condemned the action as “disgusting”, saying: “My mother has worked hard all her life and never done anything wrong and now they want to take away the only possession she has got to leave to her grandchildren.She is not really aware of what the council is doing to her but I am going to have to sit down and tell her: I am sure she will be very upset.” The council is adamant that Mrs Youngman, a former publican, should pay for her nursing home care.
Anthony Douglas, Suffolk’s Director of Social Care, said: “Suffolk only involves the law as a last resort and we regret having to do so. “Under the law we are obliged to assess every person we fund in a residential care home to see if they have the resources to pay for their accommodation. Typically, a person being funded in residential care who owns a property has the value of their property counted as an asset, and is charged. That person may, in some cases, have to consider selling their home to pay the costs"
Padraic Flanagan, Daily Express, October 2nd 2002
#19
sassie
it is alot longer than 6 months


thats right a general rule is about 5 yrs however there is no limit.
if they believe you did it to prevent the funds being released they can recoup indefinatly

i'd take professional advice, my family went through a similar thing
dad was determind to find a away - for the record he didn't

your biggest obsticle is time - insofar as how soon your mum is going into care
and the house being transfered etc.

good luck
#20
You need to take the advice of a solicitor. Talk to them (initially) free of charge to see what can be done. If nothing else it will answer all of the questions you have flying around your head.
I work for a firm of solicitors with an Elderly Services Unit who specialise in Long Term Care/Nursing Home issues. Most are members of Solicitors for the Elderly and the Society of Trust and Estate Practitioners
Generally the first half hour is free. Alternatively you could email them a question
The practice is Latimer Hinks Solicitors (i won't put a link as i'm not sure if it is allowed) but you can do a general search to find it.
If you want any further info, please pm me (i am not a solicitor, i am the marketing executive and as such not qualified to give you advice)
banned#21
like i said nursing care carries different rules to residential care
#22
We had this with my Mother in Law, ended up having to use the value of the house for her fees, whilst others had "gifted" property to children etc. and where living in exactly the same accommodation as my Mother in Law.

This was back in early 90's and then you had to gift a property 7 years (I think it was from memory) prior to enrance into a nursing home.

Seems a very unfair system, when as in my Mother in Laws case she had to have 24 hour nursing care and was blind too. She (wrongly) was convinced no matter what she would be leaving her home to her son. This never happened in the end.

I would suggest you get a solicitor and I hope everything works out ok for you, your Mother and your family.
#23
momagic;2433583
If the mortgage is paid then the house is hers, all she has to do is transfer ownership to you or something.

Or she can just rent it out or sell it.

you cannot transfer ownership, the government can go back 7 years for assets transferred under market value
#24
choc1969
Legally they have the right to take this house as her asset whether you're renting it out or not. See a solicitor as soon as possible as I think there is a six month period when the government can still recognise her house as an asset even if she transfers ownership to a member of her family.


yes true - we had this at Christamas when my mum had a stroke

In reality you will have to sell it and make the most of the asset to preserve as much as you can

EliTom
#25
yeah been through this.you cant get round it.they will take the house as an asset.its frustrating,but theres nothing you can do.
#26
sassie
it is alot longer than 6 months


No its six months that they check back - all assets must be accounted for in the six months before care is required

its 7 years for disposal of assets in the case of the house - i.e. you must have 7 clear years after the house is past to children etc

EliTom
banned#27
my next door neighbour had a stroke this time last year (a big one) she has been in a nursing home ever since and her house lies empty, the goverment are paying for this, not the family
#28
sassie
my next door neighbour had a stroke this time last year (a big one) she has been in a nursing home ever since and her house lies empty, the goverment are paying for this, not the family


you say that like its a bad thing?
#29
Basically if the house is in your mother's name only, i.e. not tennant in common with husband / partner then your best bet is to sell it, take the money and get financial advice to maximise the income from the sale proceeds

Then you or another family member can manage her fees against the assets and income from those assets and top up if required, thus avoiding the govt taking the whole asset.

This way (and I am not being nasty here) if she survives say for 10 years, you may still have some of the assets left.

If the govt take the whole asset now they will not invest it they will just use the cash to pay for her care home then when she dies they keep the rest.

I have seen the later with a relative of my wife and we are doing the former with my Mother

PM me if you need any further advice from my experiences

EliTom
#30
My grandad is in a home and we went his house out to help pay the fees, afaik his pension helps pay towards it too and the rest comes from savings
#31
Just a quick one

if you get £250000 you can get 8% gross by a simple no risk investrment. This brings you £20000 a year before tax, but if your Mother is only getting her pension then some of this will be tax free. If she has income from other investments then take them into account

Even if she has to pay full tax on the £20000 it shpould still broing in £13 - 15k that is over £1000/month towards her fees.

My Mums fees are £2200 / months so after pension and other benefits she has to find about £1200 / month and we get about 80% of that from her half of the proceeds of the family home thus protecting alot of the asset

hth

EliTom
#32
They are thieves!!!!
My GF's Granddad was in a home and the SS nearly sold his flat without the family knowing,
He was paying £600 per week!!!!!!! and the care wasn't any good. His quality of life wasn't very good at the end and the care home used up all his savings in 9 months!
For that, I think it's worth giving up work to care, you might beable to claim money for doing it from the government.
I think it's a tragedy as these people have worked hard all their lives and get robbed at the end of it.
#33
richhock
They are thieves!!!!
My GF's Granddad was in a home and the SS nearly sold his flat without the family knowing,
He was paying £600 per week!!!!!!! and the care wasn't any good. His quality of life wasn't very good at the end and the care home used up all his savings in 9 months!
For that, I think it's worth giving up work to care, you might beable to claim money for doing it from the government.
I think it's a tragedy as these people have worked hard all their lives and get robbed at the end of it.


happened to wife's uncle

yes the system is unjust - save for your old age and you get nothing - don't save / pi$$ your money up the wall and get all that is going - very unfair

EliTom
#34
choc1969
Legally they have the right to take this house as her asset whether you're renting it out or not. See a solicitor as soon as possible as I think there is a six month period when the government can still recognise her house as an asset even if she transfers ownership to a member of her family.


i think its upto 7 years actually and they can still take it.
#35
richhock
They are thieves!!!!
My GF's Granddad was in a home and the SS nearly sold his flat without the family knowing,
He was paying £600 per week!!!!!!! and the care wasn't any good. His quality of life wasn't very good at the end and the care home used up all his savings in 9 months!
For that, I think it's worth giving up work to care, you might beable to claim money for doing it from the government.
I think it's a tragedy as these people have worked hard all their lives and get robbed at the end of it.


Totally agree with you.. I.hate this ******** Government.

To OP..hope everything works out well for all concerned...best wishes.
#36
Its a lose - lose situation either way im afraid, our population is aging and as more and more people leave work and enter retirement the care system will struggle even more. If more people get the homes for free then our taxes will just go up
#37
Yes, a 2 way street.

All you folk who are caning the government about it would also be complaining about how unjust it would be if the tax burden was put at your feet.

A fast growing elderly population and an ever decreasing workforce make this a very tricky situation.

Essentially, an investment in property these days is an investment in your own long term care.

Bar the wealthy in society the days of handing down to family are long gone.

Oh, and nursing care is much different and much more expensive than residential.
#38
My nan went through this, went into care as she couldnt cope, took her pension which was fair enough to pay for care. Not even care she lives at the home and gets fed, but is still able to do things.

Took her house, but it was a council 1, and took my grandads PRIVATE pension along with it as well, when it has nothing to do with the government and my grandad died soome years ago. Its disgusting, she gets like £20 a week to live on and to buy shampoo, treats etc. I hate this country.
#39
Can she not sell her own house?
#40
Whoever brokers the sale, no doubt the government will seek to realise the assets.

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