Neolocalism- is this the new world emerging from Brexit and Trumpism? - HotUKDeals
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Neolocalism- is this the new world emerging from Brexit and Trumpism?

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Neolocalism - geographer Wes Flack describes a renewed interest in preserving and promoting the identity of a community and restoring aspects that make it culturally unique - another words - make soci…
splender Avatar
3m, 2w agoPosted 3 months, 2 weeks ago
Neolocalism - geographer Wes Flack describes a renewed interest in preserving and promoting the identity of a community and restoring aspects that make it culturally unique - another words - make society more meaningful to the locals by "birth" right or "adopted birth" by default of living in a local area for ~40+ years (from birth) in general or more. This is what Farage and Trump have tapped into (minds of their dormant voters).
.
It could as simple as "Starbucks" replaced by your local English cafe but arranged with space like Starbucks.
As simple as emergence of great British singer song writers like the golden era of 60's to '80s. As simple as change of High Streets back of British brand names (but we have to make more or revive the British manufacturing names) and move some parts factories back (Look at Lego in Denmark, they still have some manufacturing locally in Denmark).
.
In UK Referendum and US Election, there is a rejection current status quo built up from 1980 + its globalisation (Neoliberalism as implemented from Reagan and Thatcher times) see my other thread on this http://www.hotukdeals.com/misc/neoliberalism-reason-for-your-woes-fortune-2543513
.
After some analyses of Brexit results, there is emerging a view that the root cause is that indigeneous people (or those who lived 40+ years or more, they are not closet racist, looney or fruit cakes nor white have-nots) are more fond of the local community values and amenities and of their familiar birthrights and birthplace (which if not dealt with , morph into more nasty feeling like racism and xenophobia) whereas what they are asking for is more for themselves (as if an expection from birth expecting something out of their lifetime). This also explain why ~20 years are less fond of localism relatively as they see the world is the new global village (but they will get old in 20 years and when their mindset shift).
splender Avatar
3m, 2w agoPosted 3 months, 2 weeks ago
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4 Likes #1
Getting the popcorn ready for this one....
3 Likes #2
No I had a headache coming on but reading that has given me a migraine!
4 Likes #3
Yes, No, Possibly, Definite maybe, but then again ...
1 Like #4
http://www.t-web.co.uk/pughpugh.gif
1 Like #5
Everyone is busy in their own life to care about anything else. Kids are neglected all the time play adult games war and crime. Parent tell they kids to f off let us watch TV when the kids are asking for help. The greatest tool for the rich technology it has messed us up badly from tv Internet phones WiFi the negative things about all technology stuff is used more.
#6
http://i65.tinypic.com/2u53z7s.jpg
#7
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.

Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.

Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
#8
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.
Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.
Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
of course not, coffee is just one example; it could be anything.....
1/ Cadburys chocolates,
2/ British steel
3/ Staffordshire pottery
4/ Starbucks replaces a charity shop which was a butcher and was a local hardware store...and so on
#9
Interesting read and good post . It certainly appears the older folk get the more conservative they get . The speed of change in all aspects of life is astonishing and some age groups adapt better than others ,obviously . Plus years of inactive political parties and certain media outlets feeding the fear factor has fuelled this until we have what we have now .
#10
"there is emerging a view that the root cause is that indigeneous people (or those who lived 40+ years or more, they are not closet racist, looney or fruit cakes nor white have-nots) are more fond of the local community values and amenities and of their familiar birthrights and birthplace"

It's called patriotism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism
1 Like #11
I didn't know Trumpism was even a word until just now X)

shopping locally has always been important to me but I fully understand the necessity to trade on a larger scale globally
#12
You could have saved time writing that by just saying people don't like change and like to blame others.

One interesting aspect you've not touched on is lack of optimism, why is change and the future always seen as bad when all the evidence points otherwise ( reduced child mortality, people living longer etc).
#13
Lets watch the Italian referendum that is coming up! Will Renzi get everyone to "update" there lives and cut red tape.

Or will Italy, the hallmark of "oldloclism" continue!?
#14
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.
Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.
Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
of course not, coffee is just one example; it could be anything.....
1/ Cadburys chocolates,
2/ British steel
3/ Staffordshire pottery
4/ Starbucks replaces a charity shop which was a butcher and was a local hardware store...and so on

1. Lindt is better
2. I have no preference
3. I have no preference.
4. I like Starbucks. I also like my local butcher but he doesn't open on Sunday's and if I need something to cook at 7pm then he's shut and the local supermarket is more convenient.

We all like the idea of localism and it has it's plus points, but most of us live in a modern world with different requirements.

Neoliberalism sounds more like nostalgia for a time that may or may not have existed.
#15
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.
Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.
Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
of course not, coffee is just one example; it could be anything.....
1/ Cadburys chocolates,
2/ British steel
3/ Staffordshire pottery
4/ Starbucks replaces a charity shop which was a butcher and was a local hardware store...and so on
1. Lindt is better
2. I have no preference
3. I have no preference.
4. I like Starbucks. I also like my local butcher but he doesn't open on Sunday's and if I need something to cook at 7pm then he's shut and the local supermarket is more convenient.
We all like the idea of localism and it has it's plus points, but most of us live in a modern world with different requirements.
Neoliberalism sounds more like nostalgia for a time that may or may not have existed.
You missed the point of outcome from Brexit and US Election voting result , it is the jobs, movement of people and housing (not lifestyle for shopping) - you are confused between benefits of cheaper goods and servicies - consumer products - with the people who make these things - local bloke or immigrant + factory abroad which we in UK don't make enough as shown by huge current account deficit since 1980s year on year.

Edited By: splender on Nov 12, 2016 13:30
2 Likes #16
After reading the Op I feel I'm in need of a semester and student loan.

Do I qualify for a student 20% discount on Amazon now?
#17
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.
Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.
Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
of course not, coffee is just one example; it could be anything.....
1/ Cadburys chocolates,
2/ British steel
3/ Staffordshire pottery
4/ Starbucks replaces a charity shop which was a butcher and was a local hardware store...and so on
1. Lindt is better
2. I have no preference
3. I have no preference.
4. I like Starbucks. I also like my local butcher but he doesn't open on Sunday's and if I need something to cook at 7pm then he's shut and the local supermarket is more convenient.
We all like the idea of localism and it has it's plus points, but most of us live in a modern world with different requirements.
Neoliberalism sounds more like nostalgia for a time that may or may not have existed.
You missed the point of outcome from Brexit and US Election voting result , it is the jobs, movement of people and housing (not lifestyle for shopping) - you are confused between benefits of cheaper goods and servicies - consumer products - with the people who make these things - local bloke or immigrant + factory abroad which we in UK don't make enough as shown by huge current account deficit since 1980s year on year.

Look, whilst I have a phenomenal amount of respect for academic studies of business and sociology, it has to be balanced with people's real-world experiences.

There's a reason why production moved abroad and that's because the consumer (you and I) wanted cheaper goods. You wanting to change 30 years of change and try and put the genie back in the bottle isn't going to happen no matter what you want to call it.
#18
coathanger
After reading the Op I feel I'm in need of a semester and student loan.
Do I qualify for a student 20% discount on Amazon now?
I am a part time student as well, paying £2k with my own money, studying a diploma, distance learning..an investment. So you can better yourself too with being a student even when working. Nothing much is handed on a plate anymore, get up and do something , rather than thinking get something from nothing. On the side as tiny secondary benefit for my £2k spend plus study time and practice time, had my 20% at Amazon, but still some NUS Extra benefits.
#19
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.
Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.
Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
of course not, coffee is just one example; it could be anything.....
1/ Cadburys chocolates,
2/ British steel
3/ Staffordshire pottery
4/ Starbucks replaces a charity shop which was a butcher and was a local hardware store...and so on
1. Lindt is better
2. I have no preference
3. I have no preference.
4. I like Starbucks. I also like my local butcher but he doesn't open on Sunday's and if I need something to cook at 7pm then he's shut and the local supermarket is more convenient.
We all like the idea of localism and it has it's plus points, but most of us live in a modern world with different requirements.
Neoliberalism sounds more like nostalgia for a time that may or may not have existed.
You missed the point of outcome from Brexit and US Election voting result , it is the jobs, movement of people and housing (not lifestyle for shopping) - you are confused between benefits of cheaper goods and servicies - consumer products - with the people who make these things - local bloke or immigrant + factory abroad which we in UK don't make enough as shown by huge current account deficit since 1980s year on year.
Look, whilst I have a phenomenal amount of respect for academic studies of business and sociology, it has to be balanced with people's real-world experiences.

There's a reason why production moved abroad and that's because the consumer (you and I) wanted cheaper goods. You wanting to change 30 years of change and try and put the genie back in the bottle isn't going to happen no matter what you want to call it.
You have missed yet another point : just look at pencils which we buy and don't make, the point is how come they can do it?! Staedtler Mars GmbH & Co. KG, Over 85% of the production takes place in the headquarters in Nuremberg, though some of its products are made in Japan. Its "Noris" line of pencils are extremely common in British schools.
.
I am not talking about the past.. I am talking about now, how can they do it, even for humble things like pencils?! They will be making them, it is their future too, they did not say, get rid of it and move on, pencil making is history, they didn't say so. IT is today, now.
.
You need to raise your game, sharpen your pencil instead of using common clichés.


Edited By: splender on Nov 12, 2016 13:43
1 Like #20
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?

Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.

The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.

Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
#21
Thunderbug
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?
Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.
The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.
Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
A balance between "consume" and "producer" is what we want. OK to import Chapati flour = Canadian flour but displaced flour maker need to make something else. Clearly not the case, just look at the massive current account deficit since 1980s, year on year. That's why , for elections results and will be in Europe.
.
I am not harking about the past, the future is what do we make,
4 Likes #22
Thunderbug
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?
Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.
The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.
Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
For those in a hurry, "Buy British".
#23
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.
Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.
Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
of course not, coffee is just one example; it could be anything.....
1/ Cadburys chocolates,
2/ British steel
3/ Staffordshire pottery
4/ Starbucks replaces a charity shop which was a butcher and was a local hardware store...and so on
1. Lindt is better
2. I have no preference
3. I have no preference.
4. I like Starbucks. I also like my local butcher but he doesn't open on Sunday's and if I need something to cook at 7pm then he's shut and the local supermarket is more convenient.
We all like the idea of localism and it has it's plus points, but most of us live in a modern world with different requirements.
Neoliberalism sounds more like nostalgia for a time that may or may not have existed.
You missed the point of outcome from Brexit and US Election voting result , it is the jobs, movement of people and housing (not lifestyle for shopping) - you are confused between benefits of cheaper goods and servicies - consumer products - with the people who make these things - local bloke or immigrant + factory abroad which we in UK don't make enough as shown by huge current account deficit since 1980s year on year.
Look, whilst I have a phenomenal amount of respect for academic studies of business and sociology, it has to be balanced with people's real-world experiences.
There's a reason why production moved abroad and that's because the consumer (you and I) wanted cheaper goods. You wanting to change 30 years of change and try and put the genie back in the bottle isn't going to happen no matter what you want to call it.
You have missed yet another point : just look at pencils which we buy and don't make, the point is how come they can do it?! Staedtler Mars GmbH & Co. KG, Over 85% of the production takes place in the headquarters in Nuremberg, though some of its products are made in Japan. Its "Noris" line of pencils are extremely common in British schools.
Pencils. Good point. ;) Germany, it would often appear, is very aware of keeping it's heritage brand companies German. Unlike the UK.
#24
The German model ..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand
.
I am not talking about going back to old times, I am talking about this Mittelstand thing or similar new version for UK... our population is increasing at ever faster rate but old people population is getting ever larger with aging. With this shift with demography who will make the things for export, more of, to pay for the old folks?! What trade deals are we going to make and what do we make to trade?
.
Going on the same, tweak the current trend since 35 years ago... or smash it.. and change for a new model?!
#25
Thunderbug
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.
Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.
Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
of course not, coffee is just one example; it could be anything.....
1/ Cadburys chocolates,
2/ British steel
3/ Staffordshire pottery
4/ Starbucks replaces a charity shop which was a butcher and was a local hardware store...and so on
1. Lindt is better
2. I have no preference
3. I have no preference.
4. I like Starbucks. I also like my local butcher but he doesn't open on Sunday's and if I need something to cook at 7pm then he's shut and the local supermarket is more convenient.
We all like the idea of localism and it has it's plus points, but most of us live in a modern world with different requirements.
Neoliberalism sounds more like nostalgia for a time that may or may not have existed.
You missed the point of outcome from Brexit and US Election voting result , it is the jobs, movement of people and housing (not lifestyle for shopping) - you are confused between benefits of cheaper goods and servicies - consumer products - with the people who make these things - local bloke or immigrant + factory abroad which we in UK don't make enough as shown by huge current account deficit since 1980s year on year.
Look, whilst I have a phenomenal amount of respect for academic studies of business and sociology, it has to be balanced with people's real-world experiences.
There's a reason why production moved abroad and that's because the consumer (you and I) wanted cheaper goods. You wanting to change 30 years of change and try and put the genie back in the bottle isn't going to happen no matter what you want to call it.
You have missed yet another point : just look at pencils which we buy and don't make, the point is how come they can do it?! Staedtler Mars GmbH & Co. KG, Over 85% of the production takes place in the headquarters in Nuremberg, though some of its products are made in Japan. Its "Noris" line of pencils are extremely common in British schools.
Pencils. Good point. ;) Germany, it would often appear, is very aware of keeping it's heritage brand companies German. Unlike the UK.
See #24
.
Many still got their heads stuck in the sand and want little change , without realising a big change is needed to bust the current trend developed from 35 years ago.
.
Similar model exists in Finland, Denmark , Sweden, Switzerland....


Edited By: splender on Nov 12, 2016 13:58
#26
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.
Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.
Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
of course not, coffee is just one example; it could be anything.....
1/ Cadburys chocolates,
2/ British steel
3/ Staffordshire pottery
4/ Starbucks replaces a charity shop which was a butcher and was a local hardware store...and so on
1. Lindt is better
2. I have no preference
3. I have no preference.
4. I like Starbucks. I also like my local butcher but he doesn't open on Sunday's and if I need something to cook at 7pm then he's shut and the local supermarket is more convenient.
We all like the idea of localism and it has it's plus points, but most of us live in a modern world with different requirements.
Neoliberalism sounds more like nostalgia for a time that may or may not have existed.
You missed the point of outcome from Brexit and US Election voting result , it is the jobs, movement of people and housing (not lifestyle for shopping) - you are confused between benefits of cheaper goods and servicies - consumer products - with the people who make these things - local bloke or immigrant + factory abroad which we in UK don't make enough as shown by huge current account deficit since 1980s year on year.
Look, whilst I have a phenomenal amount of respect for academic studies of business and sociology, it has to be balanced with people's real-world experiences.
There's a reason why production moved abroad and that's because the consumer (you and I) wanted cheaper goods. You wanting to change 30 years of change and try and put the genie back in the bottle isn't going to happen no matter what you want to call it.
You have missed yet another point : just look at pencils which we buy and don't make, the point is how come they can do it?! Staedtler Mars GmbH & Co. KG, Over 85% of the production takes place in the headquarters in Nuremberg, though some of its products are made in Japan. Its "Noris" line of pencils are extremely common in British schools.
.
I am not talking about the past.. I am talking about now, how can they do it, even for humble things like pencils?! They will be making them, it is their future too, they did not say, get rid of it and move on, pencil making is history, they didn't say so. IT is today, now.
.
You need to raise your game, sharpen your pencil instead of using common clichés.

If you must copy and paste from Wikipedia, try referencing it correctly.

Also if you are going to open a Wikipedia page, read the whole thing. Then you'll understand how a 200 year old company achieved dominance in it's field.

Now if you're asking why we don't make them, that's a very basic economic story but I'll relate it to you. If you have a unique idea for a pencil or think you can make it cheaper, then you need investment and entrance into the market. That requires stockists and marketing.

The reason no other company has managed that is for a variety of reasons but it's going to be the same argument in every industry. Why don't we make mobile phones despite iPhones being popular in this country? Why don't we make computers despite laptops and tablets being popular?

Why don't we make vacuum cleaners in this country despite....hey wait a minute, James Dyson came up with an innovative take on the idea and developed a hugely successful business by doing something other companies weren't doing and marketing it properly. He then moved production abroad to keep costs down, to increase his own margins and to keep prices competitive.

Do you need my address to send a cheque for this Econ 101 lesson to?
#27
coathanger
Thunderbug
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?
Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.
The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.
Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
For those in a hurry, "Buy British".
But more info is needed why to explain, if you say this "buy British", people would respond, "Why, this one over there is cheaper and better". If you go too simple. You can too simplistic response. An example, M&S.... was buy British campaign for a long time (BTW, they are starting to make some things in UK again, but very expensive top end price.)
#28
coathanger
Thunderbug
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?
Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.
The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.
Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
For those in a hurry, "Buy British".

Posted from my iPad. X)

Edited By: HotEnglishAndWelshDeals on Nov 12, 2016 14:03
#29
coathanger
Thunderbug
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?
Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.
The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.
Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
For those in a hurry, "Buy British".
No, not necessarily. That's exactly the point that a Brexiter or Trumper (snigger) would want to make (I'm not saying you are, or aren't). Realistically we can't just buy British in a global economy. We should protect our heritage and value our British brands, sure. But we should buy smarter and those who make and sell to us should be fully accountable on a level global playing field.
#30
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
splender
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Globalisation is great if it works for you and not so great if it doesn't. I imagine views on this will be split down similar lines.
Personally I'm proud of my local community and what it provides, I'm proud of other communities I'm part of like my football team, I'm proud of being English for the most part, I'm proud of being British and I'm also proud of being European.
Having my local coffee shop be a costa and not something else doesn't bother me.
of course not, coffee is just one example; it could be anything.....
1/ Cadburys chocolates,
2/ British steel
3/ Staffordshire pottery
4/ Starbucks replaces a charity shop which was a butcher and was a local hardware store...and so on
1. Lindt is better
2. I have no preference
3. I have no preference.
4. I like Starbucks. I also like my local butcher but he doesn't open on Sunday's and if I need something to cook at 7pm then he's shut and the local supermarket is more convenient.
We all like the idea of localism and it has it's plus points, but most of us live in a modern world with different requirements.
Neoliberalism sounds more like nostalgia for a time that may or may not have existed.
You missed the point of outcome from Brexit and US Election voting result , it is the jobs, movement of people and housing (not lifestyle for shopping) - you are confused between benefits of cheaper goods and servicies - consumer products - with the people who make these things - local bloke or immigrant + factory abroad which we in UK don't make enough as shown by huge current account deficit since 1980s year on year.
Look, whilst I have a phenomenal amount of respect for academic studies of business and sociology, it has to be balanced with people's real-world experiences.
There's a reason why production moved abroad and that's because the consumer (you and I) wanted cheaper goods. You wanting to change 30 years of change and try and put the genie back in the bottle isn't going to happen no matter what you want to call it.
You have missed yet another point : just look at pencils which we buy and don't make, the point is how come they can do it?! Staedtler Mars GmbH & Co. KG, Over 85% of the production takes place in the headquarters in Nuremberg, though some of its products are made in Japan. Its "Noris" line of pencils are extremely common in British schools.
.
I am not talking about the past.. I am talking about now, how can they do it, even for humble things like pencils?! They will be making them, it is their future too, they did not say, get rid of it and move on, pencil making is history, they didn't say so. IT is today, now.
.
You need to raise your game, sharpen your pencil instead of using common clichés.
If you must copy and paste from Wikipedia, try referencing it correctly.
Also if you are going to open a Wikipedia page, read the whole thing. Then you'll understand how a 200 year old company achieved dominance in it's field.
Now if you're asking why we don't make them, that's a very basic economic story but I'll relate it to you. If you have a unique idea for a pencil or think you can make it cheaper, then you need investment and entrance into the market. That requires stockists and marketing.
The reason no other company has managed that is for a variety of reasons but it's going to be the same argument in every industry. Why don't we make mobile phones despite iPhones being popular in this country? Why don't we make computers despite laptops and tablets being popular?
Why don't we make vacuum cleaners in this country despite....hey wait a minute, James Dyson came up with an innovative take on the idea and developed a hugely successful business by doing something other companies weren't doing and marketing it properly. He then moved production abroad to keep costs down, to increase his own margins and to keep prices competitive.
Do you need my address to send a cheque for this Econ 101 lesson to?
You are getting pendantic again and try to pick holes. Just sip some juice , sit back, and savour the concept and strategy and ask , "Who am I?" , "What can I do?" , "What do I make for export?" , "How is GB going to do make trade deal and what to sell?"
.
Look beyond what I pick for you and place under your nose. I am not looking for a fight or a tedious dispute to find holes in specific example. Just look at the overall trends in the people's lives in the last 35 years and how we have evolved. I am not looking for a school teacher versus pupil lesson in concept and then pupil destructively picks holes in teacher's materials. Just apply the history of 35 years in Brexit and US elections results and ask why?!


Edited By: splender on Nov 12, 2016 14:10
#31
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?

Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.

The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.

Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
#32
Thunderbug
coathanger
Thunderbug
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?
Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.
The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.
Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
For those in a hurry, "Buy British".
No, not necessarily. That's exactly the point that a Brexiter or Trumper (snigger) would want to make (I'm not saying you are, or aren't). Realistically we can't just buy British in a global economy. We should protect our heritage and value our British brands, sure. But we should buy smarter and those who make and sell to us should be fully accountable on a level global playing field.

It's a very tough balancing act to pull off though. Firstly we have to recognise that whilst we lament don't have the manufacturing sector Germany does, we do excel in the services sector. That might not have the romantic connotations that manufacturing businesses do, but it employs vasts numbers of people.

But maybe rather than looking back to past industries, we should look to the future. There's a green tech revolution coming and we could be at the forefront of that, but we seem more concerned with returning to a 1970s model. The world's changed, mass manufacturing is something we export and whilst we absolutely should focus on boutique manufacturing, there's a gap for being at the forefont of tomorrow's technology.
#33
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Thunderbug
coathanger
Thunderbug
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?
Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.
The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.
Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
For those in a hurry, "Buy British".
No, not necessarily. That's exactly the point that a Brexiter or Trumper (snigger) would want to make (I'm not saying you are, or aren't). Realistically we can't just buy British in a global economy. We should protect our heritage and value our British brands, sure. But we should buy smarter and those who make and sell to us should be fully accountable on a level global playing field.
It's a very tough balancing act to pull off though. Firstly we have to recognise that whilst we lament don't have the manufacturing sector Germany does, we do excel in the services sector. That might not have the romantic connotations that manufacturing businesses do, but it employs vasts numbers of people.
But maybe rather than looking back to past industries, we should look to the future. There's a green tech revolution coming and we could be at the forefront of that, but we seem more concerned with returning to a 1970s model. The world's changed, mass manufacturing is something we export and whilst we absolutely should focus on boutique manufacturing, there's a gap for being at the forefont of tomorrow's technology.
Much of that financial service is built on trillion debt, just look at Tesco bank, it employs 4,000 to service internal UK people, no export is resulted to offset that trillion debt.
.
Moreover, in 10 years' time, most of the retail banking jobs, back office, would go, with automation, you can already see the banking retail shop in high streets with machines replacing cashier.

Edited By: splender on Nov 12, 2016 14:18
#34
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Thunderbug
coathanger
Thunderbug
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?
Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.
The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.
Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
For those in a hurry, "Buy British".
No, not necessarily. That's exactly the point that a Brexiter or Trumper (snigger) would want to make (I'm not saying you are, or aren't). Realistically we can't just buy British in a global economy. We should protect our heritage and value our British brands, sure. But we should buy smarter and those who make and sell to us should be fully accountable on a level global playing field.
It's a very tough balancing act to pull off though. Firstly we have to recognise that whilst we lament don't have the manufacturing sector Germany does, we do excel in the services sector. That might not have the romantic connotations that manufacturing businesses do, but it employs vasts numbers of people.
But maybe rather than looking back to past industries, we should look to the future. There's a green tech revolution coming and we could be at the forefront of that, but we seem more concerned with returning to a 1970s model. The world's changed, mass manufacturing is something we export and whilst we absolutely should focus on boutique manufacturing, there's a gap for being at the forefont of tomorrow's technology.
Yes, I completely agree. Manufacturing, particularly the heavy industries, are particularly romanticised. From a historic or cultural standpoint that's great, but it can't be used as a basis for moving forward. Change is difficult. Traditional politics is often afraid of confronting this. It's political suicide. But yes, to use a rather often churned-out nugget - Where is that entrepreneurial Victorian British grit that built the industrial world? There are emerging technologies (green tech being one) and sectors that are crying out to be exploited (& I use the word in a positive way). Someone on this post mentions Dyson, and while I can only complain about his products from a personal perspective, we need a hundred UK based companies like that. They may not manufacture in the UK, but the brains, finances and services sector are.
#35
Thunderbug
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
Thunderbug
coathanger
Thunderbug
It's an interesting subject. Rather ironically, posting this on HUKD, the most power we have as citizens in our daily lives is as consumers. The rise of markets and globalised capitalism is a real head scratcher for traditional politicians, who are left increasingly impotent against such forces. In the last couple of decades we have all become global citizens, whether we like it or not. Where our apples and oranges come from. Our coffee, our car - who owns your bank and insurance company - and the supply of our energy needs. All of these decisions are political. These decisions we make in our daily lives affect the world in all sorts of fundamental ways. Trouble is, and I include myself in this as much as the next person, is we've all been trained to be good consumers. We like shiny things and the thought of living slightly better than those idiots next door! Life is busy and we buy conveniently, under the heavy influence of advertising. We don't think about the consequences. We aren't concerned with global rights and wrongs. There's a disconnect. If you purchased your flour from Windy Miller, up the top end of the village, and one day you saw him drunk and homeless because Farmer Barleymow in the next village put his wheat prices up, chances are the community would gather around and help (we would hope) and pay him a little more for his produce. Let's face it, if you wanted flour, Windy brand flour would have been your only option anyway!
We don't play like this in a global economy. Tesco and countless middlemen, along with markets, dictate the price of flour to producers and buyers. There is often little relation between retail cost and material value. As consumers, we let others do our evil deeds for us. Our hands are clean. Tesco forced Windy out of business. Cheap Chinese flour. Do we need to go to Tesco's later?
Industry goes where it's cheaper, people in one country prosper and in another become jobless. Money travels freely around markets regardless and all is well for those people playing that game. And THEY prosper whether you do or don't. They live without physical geographic borders. These people, companies and organisations hold real power over the daily lives of citizens and politicians can only stand and stare. As much spectators as the rest of us.
The falsehood of this modern shift to the right in western politics doesn't address this problem. It's a knee-jerk reaction to it. It dangles the nostalgia carrot... "Remember when we all got our flour from Windy Miller? It was a smashing time, wasn't it?" Johnny foreigner is bad. He takes your job. He wants your home. Blah, blah blah. Scapegoating.
Let's have some real politicians, with a global realist outlook, who will work with their counterparts all over the world to address issues that transcend geographic borders. And let's all try to behave ourselves a bit better as consumers and think about what we buy, and where we buy it.
For those in a hurry, "Buy British".
No, not necessarily. That's exactly the point that a Brexiter or Trumper (snigger) would want to make (I'm not saying you are, or aren't). Realistically we can't just buy British in a global economy. We should protect our heritage and value our British brands, sure. But we should buy smarter and those who make and sell to us should be fully accountable on a level global playing field.
It's a very tough balancing act to pull off though. Firstly we have to recognise that whilst we lament don't have the manufacturing sector Germany does, we do excel in the services sector. That might not have the romantic connotations that manufacturing businesses do, but it employs vasts numbers of people.
But maybe rather than looking back to past industries, we should look to the future. There's a green tech revolution coming and we could be at the forefront of that, but we seem more concerned with returning to a 1970s model. The world's changed, mass manufacturing is something we export and whilst we absolutely should focus on boutique manufacturing, there's a gap for being at the forefont of tomorrow's technology.
Yes, I completely agree. Manufacturing, particularly the heavy industries, are particularly romanticised. From a historic or cultural standpoint that's great, but it can't be used as a basis for moving forward. Change is difficult. Traditional politics is often afraid of confronting this. It's political suicide. But yes, to use a rather often churned-out nugget - Where is that entrepreneurial Victorian British grit that built the industrial world? There are emerging technologies (green tech being one) and sectors that are crying out to be exploited (& I use the word in a positive way). Someone on this post mentions Dyson, and while I can only complain about his products from a personal perspective, we need a hundred UK based companies like that. They may not manufacture in the UK, but the brains, finances and services sector are.
Yes and no....here is an example cost view, the knack is is your "brains, finances ..." revenue generation and FTE generation enough to offset the cost importation of goods in pie chart of total product costs, as can be shown in current account deficit the answer is a massive NO (read the folllowing pie charft, for each pie sector, where this labour is and how much profit, as there will be the production side overseas which means import of the finished good and then export of the R&D (normally patent is held these days in Switzerland to avoid.xxx):-
https://marketrealist.imgix.net/uploads/2015/01/Cost-Component.png?w=660&fit=max&auto=format

Edited By: splender on Nov 12, 2016 14:45
#36
Humans are money simple as that

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