NHS crisis: 'Patients' lives being put at risk' say doctors. - HotUKDeals
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NHS crisis: 'Patients' lives being put at risk' say doctors.

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Leak shows full extent of NHS winter crisis http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38570960 Key points. *Performance started deteriorating markedly in the first week of the new year with 22% of patie… Read More
MrScotchBonnet Avatar
banned4m, 1w agoPosted 4 months, 1 week ago
Leak shows full extent of NHS winter crisis
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38570960

Key points.

*Performance started deteriorating markedly in the first week of the new year with 22% of patients waiting longer than four hours to be seen in A&E

*In one hospital - Weston Area - that reached 44%

*Just one trust hit the target of seeing 95% of patients within four hours with only nine within 5% of hitting the mark

*Dangerously high levels of bed occupancy were reported with 94.7% of beds full - well above the "safe" threshold of 85%

NHS conditions worst ever, say leading nurses
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38570177

Labour has shifted focus away from the NHS crisis.For what?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/10/jeremy-corbyn-nhs-labour-immigration

The NHS should be the party’s main focus right now. Jeremy Corbyn’s pronouncements about immigration and high pay are just distractions


http://i.imgur.com/O6FoXb3.jpg

You vote for the Tories and you get Tory values of cut and slash funding. You want a NHS that's in the condition to be able to cope with any oncoming 'humanitarian crisis' then don't vote Tory again, simple.
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MrScotchBonnet Avatar
banned4m, 1w agoPosted 4 months, 1 week ago
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Top Comments

(5)
10 Likes
time to vote Labour, they have some great ideas, increase immigration, spend more and raise taxes leading to eventual financial collapse.
10 Likes
Teza511
This country has lots of very clever people but why don't these very clever people have any common sense oO

They do when it comes to making themselves money. (_;)
10 Likes
Predikuesi
We were in the hospital over the last weekend to be with my mother as she passed away, and we couldn't believe how many patients there were on trolleys in corridors. Maybe the media hyps it up a bit, but it looks like the situation will be around for quite a while. We saw one young guy shouting at reception because he couldn't be seen for a minor problem that any pharmacy could deal with. The abuse of the NHS is probably one of the major factors in the ongoing crisis. The financial side of things has been creeping up on the NHS for decades, and no government has been willing to tackle it. The Labour Party, for all its sound bites, has been as equally unwilling to solve the problem in the past.
Sorry for your loss.
9 Likes
Its about time they introduced "british passport for health care" sure that would speed it up.
No passport no nhs,and supporting doccument,last p60 lol
9 Likes
The tories have deliberately unfunded the NHS for years. It's really easy to point outwards and blame immigration or to an aging population, that's exactly what they want us to do. they want the service to become unsustainable, so they can privatise and 'fix' it.

It should be pretty apparent by now that this government it pretty bloody dodgy. They borrowed crazy amounts of money, failed to met targets. Austerity damaged the economy. They have sold off assets for less then there worth, they didn't even attempt to help British steel. It all seems like a massive con

To who ever said UKIP was the answer, do you realise that UKIP is made up of alot of ex conservatives, payed for by ex conservative backers. They probably dislike the NHS more then the current government does.

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10 Likes #1
time to vote Labour, they have some great ideas, increase immigration, spend more and raise taxes leading to eventual financial collapse.
9 Likes #2
Its about time they introduced "british passport for health care" sure that would speed it up.
No passport no nhs,and supporting doccument,last p60 lol
4 Likes #3
Screwed whoever you vote for, Only safe vote would probably be UKIP but that would be a wasted vote, like voting for Libdems etc..

So comes down to Labour and Conservatives and neither would get my vote.

With Corbyn they're unelectable.
5 Likes #4
We were in the hospital over the last weekend to be with my mother as she passed away, and we couldn't believe how many patients there were on trolleys in corridors. Maybe the media hyps it up a bit, but it looks like the situation will be around for quite a while. We saw one young guy shouting at reception because he couldn't be seen for a minor problem that any pharmacy could deal with. The abuse of the NHS is probably one of the major factors in the ongoing crisis. The financial side of things has been creeping up on the NHS for decades, and no government has been willing to tackle it. The Labour Party, for all its sound bites, has been as equally unwilling to solve the problem in the past.

Edited By: Predikuesi on Jan 11, 2017 08:45
2 Likes #5
This country has lots of very clever people but why don't these very clever people have any common sense oO
10 Likes #6
Teza511
This country has lots of very clever people but why don't these very clever people have any common sense oO

They do when it comes to making themselves money. (_;)
6 Likes #7
A lot of people go to hospital for very minor problems because they don't want too wait to see their GP.

It takes alot for me too go to see my GP, I haven't been for about 4 years and I've not been to hospital for treatment in about 8 years.

People go for the stupidest thing and alot of immigrants go because in their home country that's where they go, not to a GP, overcrowded cities have overcrowded everything.

Voting Labour won't help, they were the ones who gave GPs the contract of a lifetime.


Edited By: rodders443 on Jan 11, 2017 09:03
2 Likes #8
davewave
time to vote Labour, they have some great ideas, increase immigration, spend more and raise taxes leading to eventual financial collapse.

Except in the previous Tory government, more was borrowed than previous labour governments!

They missed pretty much every financial target they set for themselves and possibly destroyed London as the financial capital of the world!

Yay for economic competence lol Sigh*

Edited By: jimbo001 on Jan 11, 2017 09:01
8 Likes #9
A & E ..... Anything & Everything
10 Likes #10
Predikuesi
We were in the hospital over the last weekend to be with my mother as she passed away, and we couldn't believe how many patients there were on trolleys in corridors. Maybe the media hyps it up a bit, but it looks like the situation will be around for quite a while. We saw one young guy shouting at reception because he couldn't be seen for a minor problem that any pharmacy could deal with. The abuse of the NHS is probably one of the major factors in the ongoing crisis. The financial side of things has been creeping up on the NHS for decades, and no government has been willing to tackle it. The Labour Party, for all its sound bites, has been as equally unwilling to solve the problem in the past.
Sorry for your loss.
5 Likes #11
farmeruk1
Its about time they introduced "british passport for health care" sure that would speed it up.
No passport no nhs,and supporting doccument,last p60 lol


So what about UK born that do not possess a P60?
4 Likes #12
I went to my local walk in centre on sunday as I could not get a doctors appointment for 15 days time.
I wonder how many other people were there for the same reason ?.
I needed antibiotics and antibacterial tablets due to the infection I have.
I would rather go to the doctor BUT could be dead but the time i got an appointment.
4 Likes #13
hospitals not being allowed to buy the best value of anything costs them a fortune, they overpay for everything, goods, machinery, equipment and services.
5 Likes #14
it's a pity hunt has not tried to repeal the GP contracts as the money they are on means they have little interest in seeing patients now
4 Likes #15
on the local news last night they were interviewing a lady who waited 19 hours in Dewsbury a&e before being admitted.
6 Likes #16
IVF should not be available on the NHS.

The NHS was created to treat illnesses, accidents and other medical conditions to both save and prolong life. This criteria does not include the creation of life. People who want to use IVF should pay for their treatment.
6 Likes #17
pb22
it's a pity hunt has not tried to repeal the GP contracts as the money they are on means they have little interest in seeing patients now
I'm not sure that the current GP contracts actually discourage GPs from seeing patients. It's more that they have an incentive to take on more patients than they can possibly see. The remuneration model for partner GPs is not entirely straightforward but, broadly, they are paid for the number of patients registered to them. So, the more patients registered to a GP partnership, the more the partners get paid.

The most radical solution would be to take all GP services into NHS trusts and employ doctors to give the care needed. Although, the chances of that happening under this, or any other, government is virtually nil. The medical profession is well organised and has always had a strong parliamentary lobby which is designed to look after those making most money out of the current system.
5 Likes #18
farmeruk1
Its about time they introduced "british passport for health care" sure that would speed it up.
No passport no nhs,and supporting doccument,last p60 lol

Please explain how you think that would "speed it up"? Have any data demonstrating that so called 'health tourists' constitute a significant proportion of healthcare spending/contact time? In fact they do not. This is simply another smokescreen; demonise the immigrants so that the public won't blame us for consistently and ruthlessly underfunding services and/or cutting them outright! The idea has been widely condemned by healthcare professionals.
3 Likes #19
If you read most of these news stories about the NHS crisis, It is not saying how they can not afford to treat patients but how there is a capacity problem of to many patients to beds. Should the NHS start buying bunk beds to solve this problem? No one will dare say immigration has put a huge strain on the NHS as all the brainwashed lefties on here will shoot them down.

Edited By: POWYSWALES on Jan 11, 2017 10:14
3 Likes #20
Teza511
This country has lots of very clever people but why don't these very clever people have any common sense oO

Could you elaborate?
5 Likes #21
RonChew
pb22
it's a pity hunt has not tried to repeal the GP contracts as the money they are on means they have little interest in seeing patients now
I'm not sure that the current GP contracts actually discourage GPs from seeing patients. It's more that they have an incentive to take on more patients than they can possibly see. The remuneration model for partner GPs is not entirely straightforward but, broadly, they are paid for the number of patients registered to them. So, the more patients registered to a GP partnership, the more the partners get paid.
The most radical solution would be to take all GP services into NHS trusts and employ doctors to give the care needed. Although, the chances of that happening under this, or any other, government is virtually nil. The medical profession is well organised and has always had a strong parliamentary lobby which is designed to look after those making most money out of the current system.
People abuse GP surgeries by not turning up for appointments, which means the optimum number of people are not seen. Over 300 appointments a month not attended at some GPs, disgraceful that people book and don't turn up. 20,000 missed appointments at ONE clinic in a hospital!

Charge people who miss appointments or take it from their benefits, they'll soon learn
9 Likes #22
The tories have deliberately unfunded the NHS for years. It's really easy to point outwards and blame immigration or to an aging population, that's exactly what they want us to do. they want the service to become unsustainable, so they can privatise and 'fix' it.

It should be pretty apparent by now that this government it pretty bloody dodgy. They borrowed crazy amounts of money, failed to met targets. Austerity damaged the economy. They have sold off assets for less then there worth, they didn't even attempt to help British steel. It all seems like a massive con

To who ever said UKIP was the answer, do you realise that UKIP is made up of alot of ex conservatives, payed for by ex conservative backers. They probably dislike the NHS more then the current government does.
4 Likes #23
it should be law that all non UK citizens have private insurance to cover hospital fees and seeing doctors and have them to contribute to schooling there children if there pay is over 50k per couple. ;)
4 Likes #24
dunny06
it should be law that all non UK citizens have private insurance to cover hospital fees and seeing doctors and have them to contribute to schooling there children if there pay is over 50k per couple. ;)
But they are the ones who contribute the most :|
4 Likes #25
timeout2006
The tories have deliberately unfunded the NHS for years. It's really easy to point outwards and blame immigration or to an aging population, that's exactly what they want us to do. they want the service to become unsustainable, so they can privatise and 'fix' it.

It should be pretty apparent by now that this government it pretty bloody dodgy. They borrowed crazy amounts of money, failed to met targets. Austerity damaged the economy. They have sold off assets for less then there worth, they didn't even attempt to help British steel. It all seems like a massive con

To who ever said UKIP was the answer, do you realise that UKIP is made up of alot of ex conservatives, payed for by ex conservative backers. They probably dislike the NHS more then the current government does.


in the last 20 years I think labour had a bit of a hand in it.
5 Likes #26
POWYSWALES
If you read most of these news stories about the NHS crisis, It is not saying how they can not afford to treat patients but how there is a capacity problem of to many patients to beds. Should the NHS start buying bunk beds to solve this problem? No one will dare say immigration has put a huge strain on the NHS as all the brainwashed lefties on here will shoot them down.

I'm afraid your view of the crisis is drastically over-simplified and reductionist. At who's behest do you think capacity creation/reduction is? Those who provide the funding, which is ultimately the government! Funding and capacity are inextricably linked.

Demand on the NHS has not exceeded capacity overnight, capacity has been an issue for a very long time. If only you knew, for example, just how often the (in my view ridiculous) A&E '95% seen in 4h' target has been missed in many hospitals over the years.

If the government wanted to increase capacity to meet demand, they could. The fact is they don't want to because those currently in power don't believe in the founding principles of the NHS and want to see it fail. Don't believe in the foundations and you allow the structure to collapse.

By the way, food for thought. Did you ever stop to think that a massive proportion of those working in the NHS are immigrants?
6 Likes #27
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.

1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.

We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.

We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.

Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.

But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
3 Likes #28
dunny06
it should be law that all non UK citizens have private insurance to cover hospital fees and seeing doctors and have them to contribute to schooling there children if there pay is over 50k per couple. ;)

This is a red herring - please see comment #20.
2 Likes #29
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.
1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.
We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.
We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.
Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.
But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
Are you implying we should euthanize them? Let them die? Stop treating them?.
2 Likes #30
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.
1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.
We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.
We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.
Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.
But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
Are you implying we should euthanize them? Let them die? Stop treating them?.

I'm saying we spend tens of billions of pounds each year treating illnesses that are directly linked to people eating too much and not exercising. Obesity is increasing so it's not a sustainable model.

Maybe people need to begin paying a premium for the additional treatments that they have brought on themselves.
5 Likes #31
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.
1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.
We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.
We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.
Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.
But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
Are you implying we should euthanize them? Let them die? Stop treating them?.
I'm saying we spend tens of billions of pounds each year treating illnesses that are directly linked to people eating too much and not exercising. Obesity is increasing so it's not a sustainable model.
Maybe people need to begin paying a premium for the additional treatments that they have brought on themselves.

Ok, and do what about treating the ageing population, which you listed as the no.1 greatest strain on the NHS?


Edited By: deeky on Jan 11, 2017 10:49
4 Likes #32
All I see in the news is people saying there's crisis after crisis. Maybe it's because I've not looked closely enough but what I've not seen is any attempt at explanation (rather than wild speculation) WHY A&E and other parts of the health service are under so much strain etc (I could understand a rise in A&E admissions if we were having a severe winter, but it's incredibly mild). I work in the NHS and use it and while most staff work hard something I often spot is the level of waste and inefficiency and this is in an organisation which has very well paid senior and middle managers coming out of its ears. Last year my wife was in a specialist ward for over seven months, the last three months the hospital was desperate for the bed, we were desperate to get her home and she was desperate to be home but she couldn't be discharged because someone had forgotten to order a specialist bed for her to use at home. In the end we said we'd buy one ourselves on the internet (probably a fraction of what the NHS would be charged for it) and take her out ourselves. Where I work a temporary employee left before the end of their contract. We'd improved some procedures which meant that the level of work has fallen to the level that the remaining staff could cope. We pointed this out but the management still went ahead an recruited a replacement who will probably spend most of their time wondering why they were recruited as they're likely to have very little to do. Those are two small examples which I'm sure are played out every day in the NHS.

Having previously been a senior manager in the Civil Service I'm all too aware of the proliferation of managers with fancy titles and job descriptions full of the latest buzz-words who do very little managing but spend most of their time justifying their position and developing (and having endless meetings about) meaningless strategy documents and development plans, rather than actually managing the work of their staff. My wife's hospital stay was further prolonged by an apparent lack of communication and consistency between different people in the ward, which we discovered at each catch-up meeting. The only person I never EVER saw all the times I was on that ward was the Ward Manager. He had an office but i never saw him as he was presumably constantly at strategy meetings and implementation plan conferences rather being on the ward actually managing the work of the staff.

So while it's very easy to say we need to spend more money it's not quite as simple in reality.
8 Likes #33
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.
1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.
We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.
We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.
Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.
But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
Are you implying we should euthanize them? Let them die? Stop treating them?.
I'm saying we spend tens of billions of pounds each year treating illnesses that are directly linked to people eating too much and not exercising. Obesity is increasing so it's not a sustainable model.
Maybe people need to begin paying a premium for the additional treatments that they have brought on themselves.
I'm referring to the "ageing population".
8 Likes #34
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.
1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.
We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.
We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.
Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.
But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
Are you implying we should euthanize them? Let them die? Stop treating them?.
I'm saying we spend tens of billions of pounds each year treating illnesses that are directly linked to people eating too much and not exercising. Obesity is increasing so it's not a sustainable model.
Maybe people need to begin paying a premium for the additional treatments that they have brought on themselves.
I'm referring to the "ageing population".

He strangely seems to have overlooked the No. 1 drain, the ageing population.

I honestly can't wait to hear this one :p


Edited By: deeky on Jan 11, 2017 10:54
3 Likes #35
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.
1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.
We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.
We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.
Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.
But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
Are you implying we should euthanize them? Let them die? Stop treating them?.
I'm saying we spend tens of billions of pounds each year treating illnesses that are directly linked to people eating too much and not exercising. Obesity is increasing so it's not a sustainable model.
Maybe people need to begin paying a premium for the additional treatments that they have brought on themselves.
I'm referring to the "ageing population".

Again, maybe we need to look at ways of increasing the amount they contribute to the national pot. I know it's very easy to say that they've 'paid into the pot all their life' and that is true in a lot of cases but that actual truth is that people have paid vastly different amounts.

What we have is a group who pay less into the pot but take a substantial sum out. Firstly I think it's a certainty that the age of retirement will increase and maybe that needs to be brought forward.

But beyond that we maybe have to look at individuals subsidising the cost of treatments over a certain age. It's not an easy subject and it's tempting to get emotive about it because it's an emotional subject. But the NHS is spending more than ever before and it's not just on chairs and tables. It's on expensive treatments that keep people alive for longer who will likely require more expensive treatments later on.
6 Likes #36
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.
1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.
We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.
We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.
Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.
But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
Are you implying we should euthanize them? Let them die? Stop treating them?.
I'm saying we spend tens of billions of pounds each year treating illnesses that are directly linked to people eating too much and not exercising. Obesity is increasing so it's not a sustainable model.
Maybe people need to begin paying a premium for the additional treatments that they have brought on themselves.
I'm referring to the "ageing population".
Again, maybe we need to look at ways of increasing the amount they contribute to the national pot. I know it's very easy to say that they've 'paid into the pot all their life' and that is true in a lot of cases but that actual truth is that people have paid vastly different amounts.
What we have is a group who pay less into the pot but take a substantial sum out. Firstly I think it's a certainty that the age of retirement will increase and maybe that needs to be brought forward.
But beyond that we maybe have to look at individuals subsidising the cost of treatments over a certain age. It's not an easy subject and it's tempting to get emotive about it because it's an emotional subject. But the NHS is spending more than ever before and it's not just on chairs and tables. It's on expensive treatments that keep people alive for longer who will likely require more expensive treatments later on.

I see. So everyone pays more tax then for any NHS treatment we might need when we become elderly?

And if they don't reach old age, maybe we could get it refunded to their next of kin if they die before they retire?

Or maybe just make them pay extra when they reach retirement age? Take it out of their £150 a week pension.

Or maybe just accept that people get old and might need treatment. It's not like they grow old to spite everyone.






Edited By: deeky on Jan 11, 2017 11:20: .
5 Likes #37
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.
1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.
We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.
We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.
Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.
But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
Are you implying we should euthanize them? Let them die? Stop treating them?.
I'm saying we spend tens of billions of pounds each year treating illnesses that are directly linked to people eating too much and not exercising. Obesity is increasing so it's not a sustainable model.
Maybe people need to begin paying a premium for the additional treatments that they have brought on themselves.
I'm referring to the "ageing population".

Again, maybe we need to look at ways of increasing the amount they contribute to the national pot. I know it's very easy to say that they've 'paid into the pot all their life' and that is true in a lot of cases but that actual truth is that people have paid vastly different amounts.

What we have is a group who pay less into the pot but take a substantial sum out. Firstly I think it's a certainty that the age of retirement will increase and maybe that needs to be brought forward.

But beyond that we maybe have to look at individuals subsidising the cost of treatments over a certain age. It's not an easy subject and it's tempting to get emotive about it because it's an emotional subject. But the NHS is spending more than ever before and it's not just on chairs and tables. It's on expensive treatments that keep people alive for longer who will likely require more expensive treatments later on.


i bet the older generations would be so happy they paid tax for your upbringing, healthcare and education.
1 Like #38
dunny06
it should be law that all non UK citizens have private insurance to cover hospital fees and seeing doctors and have them to contribute to schooling there children if there pay is over 50k per couple. ;)


Some didn't take advantage of the free schooling that was available to them....
4 Likes #39
shadey12
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We have to have an honest discussion about the NHS. The simple fact that the greatest strains on it are the result of two things.
1. An ageing population
2. Obesity.
We spend £8 billion per year treating Type 2 Diabetes which is linked to lifestyle factors and has increased in prevalence as obesity has. People are neglecting their own health through laziness and gluttony and the NHS is having to pick up the pieces.
We also have a lot more older people (65+) who are being kept alive through innovations in treatment, but these innovations aren't free. We're essentially keeping people who contribute less through taxation alive for longer through the use of expensive medicines and procedures.
Those are two issues that are only going to become bigger drains on the NHS on an annual basis.
But people want to blame immigration and couples seeking IVF (which costs the NHS about 1/20th what we spend on Type 2 diabetes treatment and actually provides a solution to the ageing population issue).
Are you implying we should euthanize them? Let them die? Stop treating them?.
I'm saying we spend tens of billions of pounds each year treating illnesses that are directly linked to people eating too much and not exercising. Obesity is increasing so it's not a sustainable model.
Maybe people need to begin paying a premium for the additional treatments that they have brought on themselves.
I'm referring to the "ageing population".
Again, maybe we need to look at ways of increasing the amount they contribute to the national pot. I know it's very easy to say that they've 'paid into the pot all their life' and that is true in a lot of cases but that actual truth is that people have paid vastly different amounts.
What we have is a group who pay less into the pot but take a substantial sum out. Firstly I think it's a certainty that the age of retirement will increase and maybe that needs to be brought forward.
But beyond that we maybe have to look at individuals subsidising the cost of treatments over a certain age. It's not an easy subject and it's tempting to get emotive about it because it's an emotional subject. But the NHS is spending more than ever before and it's not just on chairs and tables. It's on expensive treatments that keep people alive for longer who will likely require more expensive treatments later on.
i bet the older generations would be so happy they paid tax for your upbringing, healthcare and education.
Let's not forget the ww's and the sacrifices some of them made. God forbid he may get old one day. Some people are far too selfish.
1 Like #40
LOL @ middle aged people thinking that today's old people fought in the World Wars.

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