No cancer drugs for people, £3 billion for Northern Rock - HotUKDeals
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No cancer drugs for people, £3 billion for Northern Rock

happy donkey Avatar
8y, 4m agoPosted 8 years, 4 months ago
I suppose there are hundreds of other things to use the money on I just picked 1 example. Maybe I just dont understand.

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happy donkey Avatar
8y, 4m agoPosted 8 years, 4 months ago
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banned#1
Keeping Northern Rock afloat was one thing. Paying the people huge bonuses and "redundancy" pay are another issue. Its quite a cancer alright!
#2
It's not as if it's our money or anything that they're using :whistling:
#3
If the government had dealt with Northern Rock when they first asked for assistance with a credit line the run on the bank would not have happened, the credit crunch would not have been so bad as the banks confidence in one another would not have been so badly affected and the poor people (incl Northern Rock staff) would not be losing their jobs now. We would also not have the severe housing market problem (affects me as I need to sell my house) and confidence in the economy would not be so great.

Today they decide not to confirm one way or another if they'll be changing the stamp duty rules and because of their dithering we suspend any actvity that did exist in the market....then we get this decision about cancer drugs, do this government have any moral scruples? Can they make a decision without delay? Do they know what the British people actually want? I think the answer is no to all of these, if they persist I'm convinced there will be a middle class revolt!

HUKD'ers should work out how we can challenge this drugs decision, it could affect any one of us.....
#4
choc1969
It's not as if it's our money or anything that they're using :whistling:


Yeah! shame WE dont get a say :x

Of corse NR is now ours :whistling:
#5
choc1969
It's not as if it's our money or anything that they're using :whistling:


If northern rock "goes under", serious repercussions will be felt. It is in our counry's benefit to keep it alive.
banned#6
If northern rock "goes under", serious repercussions will be felt. It is in our counry's benefit to keep it alive.


It is not the business of tax payers to bail out private business.
#7
happy donkey
Yeah! shame WE dont get a say :x


We do, because we live in a democratic country. You get a say by voting in your local MP (etc.) and then decisions are made on your behalf. If you don't agree with the decisions made on your behalf, you can pick to vote for somebody else. Just because you don't agree with a decision does not make it wrong, nor is it feasible to "ask the country" on each and every decision. I think people forget that the government is elected to make decisions on our behalf.
#8
toshapetriji
It is not the business of tax payers to bail out private business.


I do not believe you are seeing the wider picture. Firstly, it is no longer a private business, secondly, for the benefit of the country, protection can be made in such a case. Too many people would have lost out had it gone wrong, sending massive repercussions throughout the entire economy. The stabilisation of the government has at least partially saved the company. It is, at the moment, an example of sharing a problem which would have impacted a minority (majorly) over the vast majority (very minorly).
#9
pghstochaj
We do, because we live in a democratic country. You get a say by voting in your local MP (etc.) and then decisions are made on your behalf. If you don't agree with the decisions made on your behalf, you can pick to vote for somebody else. Just because you don't agree with a decision does not make it wrong, nor is it feasible to "ask the country" on each and every decision. I think people forget that the government is elected to make decisions on our behalf.


Take your point, obviously we can vote for someone else but only every 4 years, I dont know what the answer is but of course these questions only arises if and when.
I wonder if it affected someone in power what the decision would be.

I understand as well that it is actualy NICE that decided this.
#10
The government already stockpile British taxpayers money in overseas investments (eg Zimbabwe). There is no viable reason why they can't release some money and fund the NR debarcle leaving our taxes to pay for drugs that are a necessity.
#11
I'm sure I read somewhere that it would cost us far less to renew our Nuclear power plants which is desperately needed than what we have put in to Northern Rock and the Olympics. Labour need to sort out their priorities...
#12
happy donkey
Take your point, obviously we can vote for someone else but only every 4 years, I dont know what the answer is but of course these questions only arises if and when.
I wonder if it affected someone in power what the decision would be.

I understand as well that it is actualy NICE that decided this.


It will always be a trade off between different things however, be it supporting the economics of the country or providing different types of drugs. As you say, it is NICE that decided this and they will have done so knowing the benefit vs. cost criteria. Although it is only every 4 years, decisions can be reversed (depending on an opposing party's choices) or appeals can be made to NICE. However, NICE is not really politically motivated, hence nobody can really blame GB for this one.

Remember that every life has a price and diminishing returns are a fact of life.
banned#13
i think we were lucky it was only one bank, Germany had 3 banks close and the US has had too many to count close. The Government help out and people moan, if the Government sat back and did nothing people would also moan and complain, its a lose lose situation.
#14
Robotochan
I'm sure I read somewhere that it would cost us far less to renew our Nuclear power plants which is desperately needed than what we have put in to Northern Rock and the Olympics. Labour need to sort out their priorities...


That's absurd, the writer would not have had a clue on the cost (especially over the ownership) of our nuclear electricity demands.
#15
bite me
i think we were lucky it was only one bank, Germany had 3 banks close and the US has had too many to count close. The Government help out and people moan, if the Government sat back and did nothing people would also moan and complain, its a lose lose situation.


The difference is if we didn't waste our money on it Virgin Money would have :whistling:
#16
bite me
i think we were lucky it was only one bank, Germany had 3 banks close and the US has had too many to count close. The Government help out and people moan, if the Government sat back and did nothing people would also moan and complain, its a lose lose situation.


Exactly. I am struggling to understand why people would not think the government did exactly the right thing.
#17
Robotochan
The difference is if we didn't waste our money on it Virgin Money would have :whistling:


Virgin Money would not have been happy to take on the whole debt; public money would still have been requried. At least this way, even though more money is needed, less of it goes to private shareholders.
#18
I think the point's being missed here. NICE may have made the decision but the decision was made on the basis of cost....cost to the NHS...funded by the taxpayer! Whether we create quangos like NICE or not the fact is it comes down to how the government have decided to spend our money...spending on other things limits money for the NHS and then we get these decisions. If we had a properly funded NHS we could get the drugs available necessary to look after the people of this country.

Before you start, yes I know we vote for the government of the day but that doesn't mean we can't challenge what happens and put pressure on them to correct failings..if we never then there would be no democracy!

The fact is our lives and those of our famlies rely upon effective government, when it starts to fail (and this one is doing) we have to stand up and be heard.
#19
The Plod
I think the point's being missed here. NICE may have made the decision but the decision was made on the basis of cost....cost to the NHS...funded by the taxpayer! Whether we create quangos like NICE or not the fact is it comes down to how the government have decided to spend our money...spending on other things limits money for the NHS and then we get these decisions. If we had a properly funded NHS we could get the drugs available necessary to look after the people of this country.

Before you start, yes I know we vote for the government of the day but that doesn't mean we can't challenge what happens and put pressure on them to correct failings..if we never then there would be no democracy!

The fact is our lives and those of our famlies rely upon effective government, when it starts to fail (and this one is doing) we have to stand up and be heard.


On what basis is it failing? Spending on the NHS has increased massively since 1997. It has risen from about 40 billion (1998) to 90 billion today (2007). It's an expensive business though, health care.
#20
pghstochaj
Exactly. I am struggling to understand why people would not think the government did exactly the right thing.


I take it you are maybe involved in the business world, If its the right thing thats fine.

I see money being spent on banks (in general) that are guilty of extortionate overcharging and who SHOULD understand the markets they are getting into, then we the tax payer bale them out. Forgive my naivety (and spelling) but where is the help for the ppl strugleing with THEIR repayments. I rent so no axe to grind.
#21
pghstochaj
On what basis is it failing? Spending on the NHS has increased massively since 1997. It has risen from about 40 billion (1998) to 90 billion today (2007). It's an expensive business though, health care.


Try the economy for starters - If they'd dealt more effectively with the Northern Rock issue the run on the bank wouldn't have occurreed, the economy would have been in a stronger position to deal with global issues.

Secondly try fuel prices - despite significant pain for hauliers, farmers and many others they still steal more tax on fuel then other countries....by far (can't they see the damage?)

Thirdly, look at the criminal justice system...they are so hung up with spending money on other countries they forgot we have criminals here who need putting in priosn so, as we don't have enough prison places we release them early to commit more crime (and more victims). The latest is that they release people on licence from prison (well in advance of the end ot their sentence) and when these people breach their licence they used to go back to complete the sentence...not now they go back for just 28 days...wow that's a real deterrent.

They show an ineptitude when it comes to managing issues at home and spend too much time looking abroad...do you need me to list anymore of their failings???

P.S I'm not anti labour...I thought Thatcher became arrogant after a long period in office and I would say similar things at that time. The fact is this government are failing the British people at this time and need to get the message to change, if they do then I'm happy to provide support.
#22
happy donkey
I take it you are maybe involved in the business world, If its the right thing thats fine.

I see money being spent on banks (in general) that are guilty of extortionate overcharging and who SHOULD understand the markets they are getting into, then we the tax payer bale them out. Forgive my naivety (and spelling) but where is the help for the ppl strugleing with THEIR repayments. I rent so no axe to grind.


My typical work is engineering and the law and economics involved in it, so a little.

I think you need to understand that it was less of a "hand out" and more of a forced take over by the governement (nationalisation in all but name). This meant that the government took on the debt but also took on the assets. If a private company had done so, they would have needed governmental support for the debt regardless. In the latter example, tax payer's money would have ended up going to the private company's share and stake holders.

So the two major options are outlined above, the third was a "take no action option" which would have seen serious financial difficulties for lots of people. This really would not have been good.

Under EU law, there are lots of problems with governemts giving aid to private companies, hence supporting them without a nationalisation would have been of further issues.

Support for people struggling with their repayments? Low interest rates (not set by the government remember) are helping, but that will cost us in inflation, hence it is again a trade off. If Northern Rock went into full liqudation, many people would have been in serious financial issues.
#23
That's what the media is telling people, each and every issue you discuss is a full and detailed topic, rather than soundbites like you have given. I will, however, remind you, that each and every government will always say that they will waste less and use our money better. The improvements since 1997 shows that Labour did actually do that reasonably well. I am not sure that change is always a good thing.

I did write a bit more, but it's far too grand an issue to be using my time up on ;)

The Plod
Try the economy for starters - If they'd dealt more effectively with the Northern Rock issue the run on the bank wouldn't have occurreed, the economy would have been in a stronger position to deal with global issues.

Secondly try fuel prices - despite significant pain for hauliers, farmers and many others they still steal more tax on fuel then other countries....by far (can't they see the damage?)

Thirdly, look at the criminal justice system...they are so hung up with spending money on other countries they forgot we have criminals here who need putting in priosn so, as we don't have enough prison places we release them early to commit more crime (and more victims). The latest is that they release people on licence from prison (well in advance of the end ot their sentence) and when these people breach their licence they used to go back to complete the sentence...not now they go back for just 28 days...wow that's a real deterrent.

They show an ineptitude when it comes to managing issues at home and spend too much time looking abroad...do you need me to list anymore of their failings???

P.S I'm not anti labour...I thought Thatcher became arrogant after a long period in office and I would say similar things at that time. The fact is this government are failing the British people at this time and need to get the message to change, if they do then I'm happy to provide support.
#24
pghstochaj
That's what the media is telling people, each and every issue you discuss is a full and detailed topic, rather than soundbites like you have given......

I did write a bit more, but it's far too grand an issue to be using my time up on ;)


Pghstochaj - You are right I did use 'soundbites' but that's because the issues are full topics..we need to be brief

As for being too grand an issue for you, I don't think so..we all have the right to an opinion and nothing is above any of us.
#25
The Plod
Pghstochaj - You are right I did use 'soundbites' but that's because the issues are full topics..we need to be brief

As for being too grand an issue for you, I don't think so..we all have the right to an opinion and nothing is above any of us.


I did not mean it in that sense. I know that discussing it on a light hearted internet forum is a poor-ish use of time in my opinion.

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