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OMG - I really hope this is a joke ?

snowtiger Avatar
8y, 8m agoPosted 8 years, 8 months ago
UK's first hybrid embryos created
Scientists at Newcastle University have created part-human, part-animal hybrid embryos for the first time in the UK, the BBC can reveal.

The embryos survived for up to three days and are part of medical research into a range of illnesses.

It comes a month before MPs are to debate the future of such research.

The Catholic Church describes it as "monstrous". But medical bodies and patient groups say such research is vital for our understanding of disease.

They argue that the work could pave the way for new treatments for conditions such as Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

Egg shortages

Under the microscope the round bundles of cells look like any other three-day-old embryos.

In fact they are hybrids - part-human, part-animal.
snowtiger Avatar
8y, 8m agoPosted 8 years, 8 months ago
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#1
They were created by injecting DNA derived from human skin cells into eggs taken from cows ovaries which have had virtually all their genetic material removed.

So what possible justification can scientists offer for doing what the Catholic Church has branded "experiments of Frankenstein proportion"?

The Newcastle team say they are using cow ovaries because human eggs from donors are a precious resource and in short supply.

The hybrid embryos are purely for research and would never be allowed to develop beyond 14 days when they are still smaller than a pinhead.

Scientists want to extract stem cells, the body's master cells, from the embryos, in order to increase understanding of a whole range of diseases from diabetes to stroke and ultimately to produce treatments.

Professor John Burn from Newcastle University says the research is entirely ethical.

"This is licensed work which has been carefully evaluated. This is a process in a dish, and we are dealing with a clump of cells which would never go on to develop. It's a laboratory process and these embryos would never be implanted into anyone.

"We now have preliminary data which looks promising but this is very much work in progress and the next step is to get the embryos to survive to around six days when we can hopefully derive stem cells from them."

Free vote allowed

The research in Newcastle was approved by the UK's fertility regulator, the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority.

It is difficult to imagine a single piece of legislation which more comprehensively attacks the sanctity and dignity of human life than this particular bill

Cardinal Keith O'Brien

It acted ahead of the passing of new legislation which will specifically allow the creation of hybrid embryos so as not to hold back research.

The bill setting out the new legislation is not due to be debated in the House of Commons until next month.

It is highly controversial and last week Prime Minister Gordon Brown gave in to demands for a free vote on the issue.

Critics from the Roman Catholic Church say the creation of hybrids is immoral.

"It is difficult to imagine a single piece of legislation which more comprehensively attacks the sanctity and dignity of human life than this particular bill," Cardinal Keith O'Brien, archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh declared last week.

Not for the first time developments in science have outpaced the debate from legislators.

For supporters of embryo research the creation of hybrid embryos is a small but significant move forward.

For opponents it is a step too far.
#2
why do you hope it is a joke???
#3
i dunno ive seen plenty of hybrid pig-women out on friday and saturday nights :)
#4
I think this is disgusting. It is not needed, even the leading scientist from the human genome project says there is no justification for this and that there are alternatives.
#5
Tarby25
i dunno ive seen plenty of hybrid pig-women out on friday and saturday nights :)


LOL
#6
Tarby25
i dunno ive seen plenty of hybrid pig-women out on friday and saturday nights :)


:giggle:
#7
SASSIE IS HAVING A REAL GOOD LOOK AT MY AVATAR:whistling:
#8
Leila70
I think this is disgusting. It is not needed, even the leading scientist from the human genome project says there is no justification for this and that there are alternatives.


How can you call a few cells being mixed with another few cells disgusting :? If it's because you think it's something similar to a Mexican Donkey Show it ain't. It's more like mixed nuts... Same things from different places :whistling:
#9
raptorcigs
SASSIE IS HAVING A REAL GOOD LOOK AT MY AVATAR:whistling:


dat's a nice avatar for sass.
#10
Great breakthrough by that Newcastle Univ team. You might not understand the details of what this means yet, but hopefully you will see the benefits in your lifetime (and perhaps even personally). If you are interested in understanding this area some more, keep an eye on Newsnight over the next few nights. Although tonight will be dominated by Zimbabwe and the second part of Paul Mason's report on China, they are likely to take this issue up in some depth over the next few days.
#11
I think it's awful because there are other ways to do it. There is no need to do it this way and because it isn't the end. It is only the beginning. People start off pushing boundaries a little bit but then they will want to push them more and we see evidence of that everywhere
1 Like #12
I think it's fantastic and a lot of people would feel very differently about this if they had long-term illnesses themselves...
#13
Leila70
I think it's awful because there are other ways to do it. There is no need to do it this way and because it isn't the end. It is only the beginning. People start off pushing boundaries a little bit but then they will want to push them more and we see evidence of that everywhere


what are you talking about it??? this was on the news before. Its a couple of cells in a couple of cells, Disease is RIFE now throughout the world if we dont try various different methods generation after generation could die if disease gets worse.

The fact is these methods have been around for ages , if you dont try different things nothing new will change let the scientist mix there cells u may thank them one day if someone in your family is saved by a cure developed on this method then you will regret what your saying.
#14
Leila70
I think it's awful because there are other ways to do it. There is no need to do it this way and because it isn't the end. It is only the beginning. People start off pushing boundaries a little bit but then they will want to push them more and we see evidence of that everywhere


There's other ways to create hybrid embryos? I hope you're not suggesting bestiality.
#15
leefal
There's other ways to create hybrid embryos? I hope you're not suggesting bestiality.


Very good! :thumbsup:
#16
I bet they zoophilia the fool now. No?
#17
Is anyone familiar with the sliding scale theory?
Unfortunately, in 50 years time, what is considered immoral and ethically wrong today, will most probably be fully accepted and the norm...that's just the world we live in
#18
But medical bodies and patient groups say such research is vital for our understanding of disease.

They argue that the work could pave the way for new treatments for conditions such as Parkinson's and Alzheimer's

A quote from the OP
#19
Best Result :
http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/uploads/human_cow.jpg:)

Worst Result :
http://www.puppywishes.com/1601-puppies/dog.jpg:(
#20
jcampwala;1817749
Is anyone familiar with the sliding scale theory?
Unfortunately, in 50 years time, what is considered immoral and ethically wrong today, will most probably be fully accepted and the norm...that's just the world we live in


What ... like murder ... or bestiality ... or incest ... or theft ... or perjury ... etc ... think they've been considered immoral/unethical for quite a long and will continue to be for a while longer yet!

It's also a bit of a fatalistic attitude. We're all gonna die in 70 years so why not just kill ourselves now!!

I agree with you in one sense though ... our standards are slipping all the time.
#21
This 'hybrid' will never, ever grow into a pig's head or a human body, or whatever horrible image you are conjuring up. It is a fantastic medical breakthrough which will allow for the production of stem cells, to alleviate the misery of millions of people suffering on a daily basis. I suppose it's a matter of preference, but to me this is much more acceptable than harvesting the cells from aborted babies, which had been previously proposed.

Do you know the name of this 'leading scientist' from the Human Genome Project?
#22
:-D love the pics!

Surely things like this are better for everyone as a whole, it's not like people are being tortured, its just cells not half man half beast creatures.

Look up how the human body reacts to freezing and the methods used to obtain the vast majority of that research, as well as the research of the effects of phosgene gas. Then also how biological weapons effects humans - unit 731. Nazi and Japanese techniques.

That is absolutely disgraceful. However cells and and stem cell research done in a professional scientific way is perfectly fine and if it helps people and forwards science then hopefully some people can get treated. Just dont expect it on the NHS anytime soon!

I agree on standards slipping but some things: murder, rape, beastiality will always be unethical
banned#23
sadly i sit on the fence on this sort of thing cause i really can see the good and the bad, how long before a scientist crosses the line and does the unthinkable,
banned 1 Like #24
sassie
sadly i sit on the fence on this sort of thing cause i really can see the good and the bad, how long before a scientist crosses the line and does the unthinkable,


...and loses their job and have a breakdown, resulting them to lose their family too? So they become a homeless drunk, that lives in a bus shelter - attempting to produce an army of half rat and half drunkard?

I'd like to remind everyone, this is real life (or irl as Tom puts it), not a Hollywood seat-filler.
#25
its inevitable... u cant stop these experiments happening... its best they are done porperly .. monitored....
#26
humans have problems accepting people of a different skin, how is being a human hybrid going to have much hope?
banned 1 Like #27
kippy
humans have problems accepting people of a different skin, how is being a human hybrid going to have much hope?


I don't think in 17 years time, this current embryo will be the one leaning out of the window at your nearest McDonald's drive through.
#28
sassie
sadly i sit on the fence on this sort of thing cause i really can see the good and the bad, how long before a scientist crosses the line and does the unthinkable,


Depends on your definition of the unthinkable though sassie.

To a parent whose child has been born with an incurable disease very little would be unthinkable I would guess.

To a spouse who has to see their partner in constant pain and suffering with no hope of relief, again I would think there would be few boundaries that shouldn't be crossed, providing of course no suffering is caused to any other living thing.

I honestly don't see how anyone can start shouting "foul" unless they are in that sort of position.
#29
isnt this better than when parents HAVE another child to help one that is ill.... all that heartache and stress... at the end of the day if the technology is out there to help find cures... we should use it, its being monitored and good luck to them (as long as its humane...ie not animal testing for no reason etc!)

kippy theres ALWAYS gonna be prejudice.... sadly its part of human nature :(
#30
faiza1
isnt this better than when parents HAVE another child to help one that is ill.... all that heartache and stress... at the end of the day if the technology is out there to help find cures... we should use it, its being monitored and good luck to them (as long as its humane...ie not animal testing for no reason etc!)

kippy theres ALWAYS gonna be prejudice.... sadly its part of human nature :(


survival of the fittest eh, we're not too far off from the animal kingdom after all.
#31
[QUOTE=kippy]survival of the fittest eh, we're not too far off from the animal kingdom after all.[/QU

we r animals:)
#32
We have all benefitted from scientific reasearch , even those who complain.
#33
JDeal
I'd like to remind everyone, this is real life (or irl as Tom puts it), not a Hollywood seat-filler.


faiza1
kippy theres ALWAYS gonna be prejudice.... sadly its part of human nature :(


JDeal
I don't think in 17 years time, this current embryo will be the one leaning out of the window at your nearest McDonald's drive through.


The good, the bad, and the ugly representation. (Or perhaps I misread intent and insinuation?)
#34
This is scientific progress, it is somthing that needs to occur.

Penecilin was discoverd when somebody didn't do the dishes. That was a major scientific break through. Any of the people who don't like this, if you whitnessed a member of your family suffering from multiple forms of cancer, parkinsons disease, alzhiemers, chrones disease, Muscular dystrophoe, multiple sclerosis, cerebal palsy, or any other genetic disease (yes I know cancer isn't technicaly a heriditory disease, but it's a possibility) would you not want to have a glimmer of hope that there could be somthing done, to either help them, or stop another family going through the pain and anguish you were going through.

Hell knows I would. I whitnessed my grandfather suffering with bone cancer, prostate cancer and brain tumors. I saw him went from sombody so full of life, to a shadow of his former self. My future mil, has MS, and do you know how scary it is, to think she could wake up one morning, and not be able to move out of bed? Or play with her future grandkids, the way she wants too?

I know that these results aren't going to happen over night, and there is a chance that this testing will come to nothing, but how will we know until we try? If people stand in the way of progress, they could be sending future generations to their deaths, when we could have found a cure starting with this generation
#35
I think that because this type of research is very complex the average person doesnt understand it - I'm not trying to say people are thick, I must admit myself I dont understand all of it. BUT comments along the lines of : "a new race of half human half rat, and monkeys with chickens bodies and then Ohhh its only a matter of time before a rogue scientist creates an evil frankenstein!" Are so not what this research is about that its almost insulting to even say such things.

Possibly the government needs to do more to get information out on what is actually proposed and their aims, be completely out in the open, so everyone knows exactly what to expect or not expect if research doesnt work. This current government have a habit of mentioning something and then when people want questions answered just sweeping it under the carpet - why cant a reasonable amount of information be released stating the facts and the possibilities.
banned#36
hottoshop
Depends on your definition of the unthinkable though sassie.

To a parent whose child has been born with an incurable disease very little would be unthinkable I would guess.

To a spouse who has to see their partner in constant pain and suffering with no hope of relief, again I would think there would be few boundaries that shouldn't be crossed, providing of course no suffering is caused to any other living thing.

I honestly don't see how anyone can start shouting "foul" unless they are in that sort of position.


The unthinkable to me is when they take things further, ie- allow it to progress further than needed, as i have said its a hard one, yes the good that comes out will help those that need it, maybe one day one of mine, and i know theres millions that suffer horrendous deaths and also horendous lives but im not so sure we forget about what is right
#37
Let's be clear. These are cow eggs from which the nuclei have been removed to be replaced with a human cell nucleus, which has the human DNA in it. The cow eggs are being used because there are few human eggs available and those could potentilly be donated for IVF and there are ethical issues.
The hybrid cow egg - human nucleus is grown on for research purposes only for a few days so that you end up with a ball of cells. These cells can be used for stem cell research. This may add to our understanding of human genetic diseases and may contribute to a cure for some of them.
There is no chance at all that an animal will result.
I have no idea why this technique should be condemned.
#38
chesso, the reason it is condemed is because people are afraid. they don't know what it is, and what they do know is limited by what certain people tell them.

The catholics wanting it to be stopped is a big issue. then again if we listend to the catholics all the time we would never progress.
#39
So am I understanding a lot of people correctly ... as long as something is done for "scientific progress" there should be no boundaries? The ends justifies the means. A bit like those who think we should be able to imprison or torture people if suspect they might be "terrorists".

And the "it's inevitable" argument is possibly weakest argument of all. That's the argument of fatalism and nihilism. We might as well remove all laws and controls because it is "inevitable" that they will be broken or change in the future.
#40
They are neither creating human/animal 'super hybrids' or injecting live babies with dog DNA.

They are simply taking human (skin cell) DNA and using the medium of a cow eggs emptied of all but 0.1% of their DNA and inserting the former. They then grow these for three days to get a viable source of stem cells for disease research. The largest 'embryo' contains only 32 cells, so not a dog baby. This has been blown out of all proportion by the media and the catholic church, the latter of which really shouldn't be making comments on ethics with the patchy history it's had.

And before anyone says otherwise i'm not anti-religion, I just believe the Church should stay out of science and science will stay out of the church.

Rant Over. :roll:

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