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One day closer to 1984 ? Is this what you want for your children ? Your views !

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As one of the older generation the following horrifies me. As a supposed civilised society how can we allow our children and grandchildren to be subjected to this sort of Big Brother control. What wil…
hottoshop Avatar
9y, 1m agoPosted 9 years, 1 month ago
As one of the older generation the following horrifies me. As a supposed civilised society how can we allow our children and grandchildren to be subjected to this sort of Big Brother control. What will come next ?

I'm interested in your views. Please though keep any debate friendly and factual without resorting to name calling or pointless argument. Thanks a lot. :)


CALL TO SCRAP "ANTI -TEEN" DEVICE.

A high-pitched device used to disperse teenagers is being challenged by campaigners, who say it is not a fair way to treat young people.
There are estimated to be 3,500 of the devices, known as the mosquito, in use across the country.

The device sends out a high-pitched, irritating noise
Their sound causes discomfort to young ears - but their frequency is above the normal hearing range of people over 25.

The Children's Commissioner for England says they should be scrapped as they infringe the rights of young people.

The devices have proved popular with councils and police who use them to disperse groups of youths engaged in anti-social behaviour.

But a new campaign called "Buzz off", led by the Children's Commissioner for England and back by groups including civil liberties group Liberty, is calling for them to be scrapped.

The organisations want to highlight what they call the "increasingly negative" way society views and deals with children and young people.

Sir Al Aynsley-Green, Children's Commissioner for England, said he had spoken to many young people who had been "deeply affected" by the deterrents.

He said: "These devices are indiscriminate and target all children and young people, including babies, regardless of whether they are behaving or misbehaving.

What type of society uses a low-level sonic weapon on its children?
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hottoshop Avatar
9y, 1m agoPosted 9 years, 1 month ago
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#2
Do these "poor" young people actally care about the rights of the people affected by their anti social behaviour?

I think not!
#3
cant they fit it with a stun gun as well that will teach them.

well what more can i say, you vote in a bunch of namby pamby lefties , so you reap what you sow.

"soft on crime ,even softer on the causes of crime" i think mr b liar said

not until you vote in a party that stands up for the common people will you get the system changed (and i dont mean tories or lib dems) the fact of the matter is most of the MP's are middle/upper class , THEY HAVENT DONE A HARD DAYS WORK they live in surburbia and also own another house in surburbia and havent got a clue what normal people have to put up with.

VOTE for emigration
banned#4
compo;1570162
VOTE for emigration


300,000 people did last year by leaving for good. Me & my partner are currently discussing where to go too as we feel the battle is lost.
#5
I was thinking about this issue this morning after a news update about Gary Newlove's murder in Warrington. I wondered if vthere was any anti-social behaviour (anywhere near the level it is today) when conscription was in place. On TV last night the p[olice said that all teens kept saying as an excuse for their behaviour is, "We've got nothing to do." In front of my home is a brand new sports centre where teens can go for free, but as soon as it closes they are back on the streets breaking wing mirrors and windows.
I grew up in the sixties and had even less to do in those days, but I cannot remember anything like what we are seeing today. The government knows that compulsory service works, but do not have the guts to impliment it. I am waiting for some politician to suggest having a "HUG A THUG WEEK."
The do-gooders in this nation, instead of always protecting the criminal, ought to spend a little time considering those who are affected by them. Education will not solve the problem (my wife, a teacher for 35 years) will tell you this), nor will any anti-social device. It is just sheer wickedness that drives people to act as they do.
#6
I read about this a few months ago, and cant really see the point in it, they will just move to somewhere else they shouldnt be hanging around, or use ipods to drown out the noise
#7
that buzzer thing sounds like a good idea, but it's not really fair on the 'young ears' nearby who aren't doing anything wrong. violence isn't really the answer, a violent youth gang will just fight back, and implementing violent means of dealing with teenagers will likely encourage them to carry weapons to defend themselves, thus causing the situation to escalate into a kind of 'street-war' between teenagers and teh authorities

i can't offer a solution, as i can't imagine a way to make them change their ways. the not having anything to do excuse is apalling, how much does it cost to buy a tennis ball? or a frisbee? rollerblades/skateboard etc? this is precisely what i did (i'm 19 by the way). i don't remember any time where i found myself bored enough to commit vandalism.

i often found that even though i did nothing wrong, i was labelled, due to my age, as a wrongdoer by adults who didn't know me, it's annoying that idiots who commit these crimes get the rest of us labelled in this way. the only way to deal with them is to either be very strict (shoot them on sight?) or to tackle the root of the problem, their attitude. so if anyone can think of a way of altering the attitude of deviant youth, please do share...
#8
does anyone remember the cult film "If ..." by lindsay anderson, starring malcolm macdowell about a revolution that takes place in a boarding school? Another good movie commenting on social thought and change is "A Clockwork Orange" by stanley kubrick, which malcolm macdowell also starred in.

just a thought, maybe some tips to learn from movies/fiction ... what not to do.

oh my nephew actually had the 'buzz' on his mobile as a ringtone so he uses it as a sort of alarm. interesting how young teens work this out.
#9
compo
cant they fit it with a stun gun as well that will teach them.

well what more can i say, you vote in a bunch of namby pamby lefties , so you reap what you sow.

"soft on crime ,even softer on the causes of crime" i think mr b liar said

not until you vote in a party that stands up for the common people will you get the system changed (and i dont mean tories or lib dems) the fact of the matter is most of the MP's are middle/upper class , THEY HAVENT DONE A HARD DAYS WORK they live in surburbia and also own another house in surburbia and havent got a clue what normal people have to put up with.

VOTE for emigration


labour's gone so right-wing that tories have not been able to go anywhere else lol.

sad to say, until we have someone who can match tony blair's charisma, leadership and drive to keep the UK at the forefront, i'm afraid we are going to be moaning till the cows come home.
#10
i think it's a great idea. sitck it on outside pubs and clubs from 3am - that'll clear the streets of drunk and aggressive people. I would also like one for my house so I can irritate the louts who smash glass and throw stones in the evening.
banned#11
kippy;1570487
labour's gone so right-wing that tories have not been able to go anywhere else lol.

sad to say, until we have someone who can match tony blair's charisma, leadership and drive to keep the UK at the forefront, i'm afraid we are going to be moaning till the cows come home.

Are you serious? Labour have taken 10 years to bring this country to its knees. Unless you believe all their lies of course.

The biggest joke is that they say inflation is and has been 2% year on year over that period. All my bills have more than doubled in this time yet bizarrely my wages have hardly moved :whistling:
#12
bring back corporal punishment for all the cheeky young scallies that have got nothing better to do than cause trouble. luckily i have been brought up correctly and if i ever got in trouble my parents would deal with it and have caused me to take responsibility for my own actions. they should have their rights taken away from them. it is a disgrace that all these idiots understand their rights if someone does something to them (e.g. somerone hits them for doin something bad) but when its them breaking the law they openly flaunt it. i think we need to bring in a few vigilante groups for a bitr of a cull on the scum of our society!!!
#13
i dont think this will do anything at all, some little fu@kers tried to get into my car the other day bent the door back and big footprints on the door just been through a car wash aswell, my friend went out when a few lads were trying to rob his car, he pushed one of them back and dislocated the theifs shoulder, my mate got 3months in prision, then i hear stories that my uncles tell me about the police pushing them about round the back of the shops for robbing drinks out of the corner shop, my uncles never did it again because they were scared, the kids now arnt scared of anything its all, you can touch me, bla bla bla, my god im 21 and still wont dare swear in front of my mum as i know i would get a good smack round the head lol
#14
elitom
Do these "poor" young people actally care about the rights of the people affected by their anti social behaviour?

I think not!


exactly :thumbsup:
#15
It's a hornet's nest isn't it? Everyone gets hugely upset because they don't have the answers. (Emigrees - careful of the grass is greener syndrome!!)
So, is it correct to try to deter potential wrong doing by applying an unpleasant noise which only affects under 25's. Possibly if it's being used, as I heard on the radio this morning by a shop, with a big vandalism problem in the area behind the premises after the shop is shut in the evening. General use is not possible apparently with the devices - they can't be left on all the time. If that is OK, what else is. It is true that 'all' young people are affected. They are our children.
#16
kippy
labour's gone so right-wing that tories have not been able to go anywhere else lol.

sad to say, until we have someone who can match tony blair's charisma, leadership and drive to keep the UK at the forefront, i'm afraid we are going to be moaning till the cows come home.


Exactly. Labour is more Tory than the tories now, but charisma doesn't make a leader. Blair was an authoritarian, probably one of the very reasons why teens are now rebelling against a system that is completely nonsensical to the average person. Do we really need a new law every week?
Curing the ills of society is about more than making everything illegal. It would also help if politicians were not such liars too, the average joe is fed up with being lied to by jobsworths with their own agenda.
#17
csiman

The biggest joke is that they say inflation is and has been 2% year on year over that period. All my bills have more than doubled in this time yet bizarrely my wages have hardly moved :whistling:


Tell the same lie enough times and people will start to believe it. This is how they get away with parading the low inflation rate that we supposedly have in the UK :roll:
2% my ars. Year on year, the average person has become poorer under Labour whilst the rich have become richer. That's what right-wing politics is all about, and new Labour is as right wing as it gets.
#18
Wow, this place is quite deep! I thought It was just about saving the odd:thinking: greenback.
All tthese post are very interesting & I thought I would put in my 2 cents.

The basic problem with this society is not the people, but the power. The goverment have lost the knowledge & control when it comes to making laws. Little by little all these new laws have mixed & diluted untill cracks have begun to appear, little by littel it stops working. Kids have no fear of the law because the law has become so bogged down in paperwork, or coppers are being taken of streets to cut some money from the budget. And they only way the goverment think they can work it is ti introduce opression! Not opression though physical means ut through mentality.

It's so obvious to see, thats why people are so moody, therer lives are so bogged down by taxes and other worries that people aren't very nice anymorey.

Teenage alcoholism could be cut easily. Install cameras which act as evidence against the seller. That way they would know, stick to the rules & don't go to prison. i think that would put an end to cheep booze for a start.

The stupedist thing to do was to introduce all night boozing. I mean for christ sake, how much alcohol fueled horrors do we need?

I wouldn't mind but it ends up coming out of our pockets. Why not bring in actual penalties, such a s paying for your own police time. I guarandamtee pubs & clubs would definately clamp down if they knew it had to come out of there pockets.

I'm tired now but I have a lot more to say, It's about fighting the power But we won't say anything, we need somebody to come along and say stop, we need our own revolutionary.

That's my 2 cents.

Peace
#19
I'm sorry to be uppity but please can I request that people don't get round the word filter, which in place to help remove profanities from posts.
#20
chesso
I'm sorry to be uppity but please can I request that people don't get round the word filter, which in place to help remove profanities from posts.


Agreed, there's no need for it , there are enough words in the English language without having to resort to coded profanities.
#21
My local shop area near my home uses this device and it is most welcome. The young people don't feel any pain and aren't actually aware in most cases that anything is wrong other than they don't want to hang around there any more and I think it's great. I no longer have to worry getting money out of the ATM as they jeer over my shoulder, don't tramp through broken bottles, get spat at, have to listen to shouting till about 4am. I welcome it.

It's not being used willy nilly, it is being used to disperse problem crowds and only when totally necessary. I think it is one of the best devices that has ever been invented, it would be even better if they could get one to send them back to their own homes to cause havoc instead of quiet law abiding people having to be intimidated.

I can't understand people who moan when their are problems in society with teenagers and then complain when solutions are tried which have found to cause no harm and be totally affective. How can people say they are having their human rights infringed etc when in most cases where this device is being used is because law abiding people are being intimidated as they go about their business. The world has gone mad!
#22
Scribbles
Exactly. Labour is more Tory than the tories now, but charisma doesn't make a leader. Blair was an authoritarian, probably one of the very reasons why teens are now rebelling against a system that is completely nonsensical to the average person. Do we really need a new law every week?
Curing the ills of society is about more than making everything illegal. It would also help if politicians were not such liars too, the average joe is fed up with being lied to by jobsworths with their own agenda.


Good post IMO.

Think I've written it before but to me this government is all about creating fear and, to get it back on topic, everytime a new CCTV system goes up or one of these Noise alarms I believe it doesn't make people feel safer at all, it just reminds them that there is something to fear.

The thing that puzzles me is that if you asked people whether they wanted a Police State and a government which runs a parallel to Big Brother I'm sure the majority would say no. Why then do we seem to applaud pr meekly accept it when new laws to inhibit freedom are introduced ?

How long is it going to be before we have Smart ID cards and how long after that will it be that those Smart cards are able to be picked up by surveillance systems ?
In fact how long before your every move is monitored ?

Now that used to be science fiction but it is no more. The technology is in place and what better way for any government to introduce it but by fear. Fear of Terrorism, fear of criminals, fear of paedophiles and of course fear of our children.
#23
I didn't know anything about this device existed till I read this post. Maybe this is what my partner hears,but he in early 30's and he says when he goes past the same part in town,he can hear a noise but I can't hear it.

Too many youngsters are getting far too cocky these days.Its too easy for them to get away things.Sure I know there not a lot for them to do but there wasn't for when I was in my teens or even my Mums generation even less.Good values start at home,if they not going respect you in the house how can you expect them to be respectful to anyone out in the community.
#24
hottoshop
Agreed, there's no need for it , there are enough words in the English language without having to resort to coded profanities.


Obviously no-one here has watched The Royle Family.
The filter can be a little literal, and I am adult enough to know where the line is drawn. I thought we were having an 'adult' debate here. Sometimes the odd tame turn of phrase can add to the atmosphere of the topic. Expression is a good thing, as long as the line is definitive and well drawn.
#25
Leila70
My local shop area near my home uses this device and it is most welcome. The young people don't feel any pain and aren't actually aware in most cases that anything is wrong other than they don't want to hang around there any more and I think it's great. I no longer have to worry getting money out of the ATM as they jeer over my shoulder, don't tramp through broken bottles, get spat at, have to listen to shouting till about 4am. I welcome it.

It's not being used willy nilly, it is being used to disperse problem crowds and only when totally necessary. I think it is one of the best devices that has ever been invented, it would be even better if they could get one to send them back to their own homes to cause havoc instead of quiet law abiding people having to be intimidated.

I can't understand people who moan when their are problems in society with teenagers and then complain when solutions are tried which have found to cause no harm and be totally affective. How can people say they are having their human rights infringed etc when in most cases where this device is being used is because law abiding people are being intimidated as they go about their business. The world has gone mad!


Don't you think it might be a little more relevant though that instead of using a little grey box to control our children we actually made the parents responsible for doing it ?

After all they are the ones that bought ther little Barbies and Ken's into this world.
#26
Scribbles
Obviously no-one here has watched The Royle Family.
The filter can be a little literal, and I am adult enough to know where the line is drawn. I thought we were having an 'adult' debate here. Sometimes the odd tame turn of phrase can add to the atmosphere of the topic. Expression is a good thing, as long as the line is definitive and well drawn.


Don't think it was anything you wrote scribbles, certainly not on my part. It was post 14 which I thought went beyond the line. :)
#27
In an ideal world yes but it won't ever happen. I don't see why decent people should suffer in the meantime while a lot of other schemes which won't work are tried out.

Having worked as a teacher for years you also get to see parents living in denial that their little 'angel' could never be a nuisance and they all spend too much time blaming everyone else's children. Society can only ever get worse as people believe they have the right to do and say whatever they want because it is their 'human right'!
#28
hottoshop
Don't think it was anything you wrote scribbles, certainly not on my part. It was post 14 which I thought went beyond the line. :)


Ahh, sorry. I didn't read it all as I got the jist of what we were saying from the first couple of posts :thumbsup:
As to your follow up post, yeah. It's surprising what people will accept into law without even questioning it. Yet those very things combined do indeed amount to a form of police state. Labour have been very clever really. Their 'if you can't beat them, join them' approach to the party manifesto in effect becoming a second Conservative party. Then introducing freedom infringing laws one at a time, disguised as protective measures against terrorism. All very clever.
Terrorism was much more prevailent in the 70s and 80s in the UK, i'd actually say that we have less now than then. Remember Bishopsgate? Trafford Centre? Docklands? Omagh? Munich? The list is relentless.
As far as i'm concerned, we are being coersed into the pen like sheep. People really should question this authoritarian stuff a bit more.
#29
I think it's a good idea - todays kids dont have any respect for anything (sorry to tar all the kids with the same brush) kids today know they can do whatever they like without any comeback for doing wrong. When I was a kid I was naughty (by todays standard I look like a saint !) but I knew that if I was out of order I would be told off by either the person in front of me or worse they would go back to my parents and tell them which meant I would be grounded. The 'families' today, if you can call them that, are so disfunctional with kids just running amok doing whatever to whoever and not being chastised for it means that the law abiding people suffer, those who go to work to earn a living to be able to buy items ar ejust having them stolen and the thief just gets a slap on the hand (if the police even bother trying to find out who done it). Labour has done nothing for this country unless you call letting every tom, dick and harry into this country, letting lazy people sit at home all day and pay them to be there, instead of making people work for things labour have said 'stay at home - do nothing - and we will give you more money - cheaper travel, benefits, pay your council tax and pay your rent. I know foster parents who have seen kids ask to go into care because they know they will get more things that their parents could ever give them paid for by the tax payer - money every month for clothing, £ 150 for presents for their birthday, holidays and spending money, as well as an allowance for 'every day' stuff. I work hard to support my family as do many honest , decent people but for us Labour have done nothing. I can understand totally why people now take the law into their own hands to deal with louts - this buzzer idea in my opinion is a good one - and about time
#30
The thing is that we are all responsible. We are responsible for our own behaviour but we are responsible for our children's behaviour too if we have any and a lot of the problem arises in the @I'm all right jack' mentality where we blame everyone else. Parents can't moan about other kids when they haven't a clue what their own little darlings are getting up to and that is part of the problem. When I taught I saw loads of kids who are pretty messed up because of their so called 'respectible' parents and then if we chastised the kids for anything we'd have 'Mr Smith' the doctor complaining that his little girl or boy was a model citizen and we'd be sued for even suggesting that their fist in another child's face was inappropriate
#31
Leila70
In an ideal world yes but it won't ever happen. I don't see why decent people should suffer in the meantime while a lot of other schemes which won't work are tried out.

Having worked as a teacher for years you also get to see parents living in denial that their little 'angel' could never be a nuisance and they all spend too much time blaming everyone else's children. Society can only ever get worse as people believe they have the right to do and say whatever they want because it is their 'human right'!


Leila as one who has taught would I be right in saying that the majority of parents nowadays look to the school and teachers to become their babysitters and surrogate parents, because that's the feeling I get ?
#32
sn0ttyang3l
I think it's a good idea - todays kids dont have any respect for anything (sorry to tar all the kids with the same brush) kids today know they can do whatever they like without any comeback for doing wrong. ......................................... I can understand totally why people now take the law into their own hands to deal with louts - this buzzer idea in my opinion is a good one - and about time


If you're "sorry to tar all kids with the same brush" why are you advocating just that ??

The majority have to suffer because of the minority ? Do you really think that makes for a decent society ?
#33
Got to say I dont think the mosquito's should be banned, when you see shop keepers and the like being harassed by a gang of "youths" then I think a device that does no damage but discourages them from hanging around his door front intimidating him and his customers can only be a good thing.

That said I dont believe they are the answer, kids today put too much emphesis on their "friends" and doing what the rest of the herd do instead of being taught by their parents and entertained they are learning to live as a pack on the streets.

Also I should point out that I was a hoodie in my day so this is experience not judgement.
#35
I agree with both hottoshop & Scribbles re the political situation and the current effects of the New Labour project. I too fear that we are sliding towards a state where freedom and liberal ideals are being seriously curtailed and IMO the power elite have used the threat of terrorism to bolster their grasps on power - more subtly than the US neocons but ....!! Even if this analysis is correct however there has to be a reassessment of the overly liberal attitudes along the lines of the 60's where PC had its origins. Perhaps the pendulum has to swing. awful as it may seem.
banned#36


Also, every person in Britain should watch Taking Liberties. There would be a riot within hours in every city if we all watched it! It shows exactly what the agenda is and whats been going on in the last 10 years and whats to come. We havent seen anything yet.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0977667/

Watch it here:-

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=taking+liberties&search_type=&search=Search
#37
hottoshop
Leila as one who has taught would I be right in saying that the majority of parents nowadays look to the school and teachers to become their babysitters and surrogate parents, because that's the feeling I get ?


I think you are right although I was dealing with mainly 16+. The problem though even then is the problems we had to deal with. We ended up having to sort out or facilitate support for young people using drugs, contemplating suicide, being kicked out of home etc
#38
I find it terribe that due to the actions of some all have to suffer. But, sadly that is the way of life in this country what ever age you are.

I have 2 girls who fall into the 15-21 age bracket and object to them being labelled based on their ages rather than their personalities or actions.
#39
Battle Royale

perhaps an alternate solution?
#40
Jonster
Battle Royale

perhaps an alternate solution?



Bit extreme don't you think?!?!?:giggle:

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