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Orange contract problems.

£0.00 @ Orange
Ive recently gone throyugh retentions at Orange and they offered me: 1000 mins, unlimited texts and unlimited data for £19.58 a month with a Touch HD that i paid £100 for. This offer was confirmed … Read More
Jetpac Avatar
8y, 1w agoPosted 8 years, 1 week ago
Ive recently gone throyugh retentions at Orange and they offered me:

1000 mins, unlimited texts and unlimited data for £19.58 a month with a Touch HD that i paid £100 for. This offer was confirmed back to me each time i called (about 5 times as the phone was out of stock etc)

Now i went to check my minutes and it says i had 900 so i called them up.
They said i had been put onto a dolphin 40 contract with is 900 minutes instead of 1000 and the rest stays the same.

However they are now saying its £25 a month. Which obviously is not what i accepted the contract at. They are also saying there are no notes on the account saying it was £19.58 and i have also sold the phone on.

Now im expecting a call tomorrow from the guy who set up the contract (i got put back through to the retentions department and they said that this was all they could do at the time)

I'm livid at the moment i mean its only an extra £5 a month but thats 100 over the course of the contract and more so not what i agreed to
Where do i stand etc?
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Jetpac Avatar
8y, 1w agoPosted 8 years, 1 week ago
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#1
The verbal contract should be recorded (if orange do that and store them), either that or you should have had a document from them with your new contract package detailed and outlined clearly.

My next step would be to get them to provide legally binding evidence that you agreed to the £25 contract with the 900min deal. If they cannot provide you with that then legally they cant charge you for that and you can stop paying them altogether.
#2
StevenA2000_uk
The verbal contract should be recorded (if orange do that and store them), either that or you should have had a document from them with your new contract package detailed and outlined clearly.

My next step would be to get them to provide legally binding evidence that you agreed to the £25 contract with the 900min deal. If they cannot provide you with that then legally they cant charge you for that and you can stop paying them altogether.


isn't that cancelling the contract?
But i have already sold the phone on...
banned#3
if they have no proof of you signing up then you have nothing to cancel
#4
sassie
if they have no proof of you signing up then you have nothing to cancel



agreed bt did this to me with broadband i said prove i said i would sign up for a year at full price and i will pay the year if you cant prove i said i would be with you then cancel from now and i wont pay took a few times of being put on hold and a few loud chats ha but they couldnt prove it as i had not agreed to it and they said i can have it for the cheap price or cancel i said cancel and they did
#5
My issue is that its a contact extention basically, been with the 18 months and the offered me this deal with the HTC touch (which i had to pay £100 for as it is a high cost phone) so if i cancel dont they have the right to ask for the phone back?
#6
Jetpac
isn't that cancelling the contract?
But i have already sold the phone on...


You cant cancel if they cant evidence any legally binding contract. As for the phone, they may try and puruse some cost for that, but again, the onus is on them to evidence how the phone got in to your possession.
#7
similar thing happened to me last week with orange. Got offered a new deal but the phone was not in stock and was advised to call back a couple of days later. When i called back i was advised that the offer was far too good and under no circs could i have it & they tried to get me to take out a diff offer, which i rejected because of this and due to the fact that 18 months ago when i upgraded i was offered a deal and when i called back to accept it, they had no record of it and i had to make do with a less offer.

Wont be keeping my business with them, roll on 10 May when it ends
banned#8
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ what steven said
#9
StevenA2000_uk
You cant cancel if they cant evidence any legally binding contract. As for the phone, they may try and puruse some cost for that, but again, the onus is on them to evidence how the phone got in to your possession.


sorry im a little lost what do you mean?
and + rep for all your input so far
#10
WEASLE666
similar thing happened to me last week with orange. Got offered a new deal but the phone was not in stock and was advised to call back a couple of days later. When i called back i was advised that the offer was far too good and under no circs could i have it & they tried to get me to take out a diff offer, which i rejected because of this and due to the fact that 18 months ago when i upgraded i was offered a deal and when i called back to accept it, they had no record of it and i had to make do with a less offer.

Wont be keeping my business with them, roll on 10 May when it ends


But the thing is i got offered the deal and took it, now they are trying to charge me for a different deal at a higher rate
banned#11
if they have no prrof of you signing up to anything then how can they ask you to cancel, it is up to them to prove you took out this new contract/upgrade, what did you sign?
#12
You have 7 days to cancel (but they will certainly want the phone back!).
But by the sound it, if you've got your first bill, it's over 7 days.
Not all calls are recorded, you might be lucky. But anyone that's looked at your account will have left a footprint which can be traced back even if they didn't notepad what they said to you (which their always supposed to).

If you guy that calls you isn't helpful you need to go up the chain to a team leader, they can access more systems than the CS agents.
#13
sassie
if they have no prrof of you signing up to anything then how can they ask you to cancel, it is up to them to prove you took out this new contract/upgrade, what did you sign?


By keeping the phone and using the account you're deemed to have accepted the contract, there's no need to sign anything.
#14
steve1221
You have 7 days to cancel (but they will certainly want the phone back!).
But by the sound it, if you've got your first bill, it's over 7 days.
Not all calls are recorded, you might be lucky. But anyone that's looked at your account will have left a footprint which can be traced back even if they didn't notepad what they said to you (which their always supposed to).

If you guy that calls you isn't helpful you need to go up the chain to a team leader, they can access more systems than the CS agents.


well i havent got my first bill i yet, i just checked my minutes to see if the contract had been activated, noticed the discrepancy and gave them a call and this was the result. it has not been a week yet but as i said i have already sold the phone on...
banned#15
steve1221
By keeping the phone and using the account you're deemed to have accepted the contract, there's no need to sign anything.


yes the £20 contract, not the £25 one
#16
Well the normal way to sort these out is to cancel the contract and start again. But as you don't have the phone any more it's going to be down to what's on the system and what the agent on retentions can remember !
banned#17
what do the hd touch retail at, did you sell it someone who you could ask for it back
#18
steve1221
By keeping the phone and using the account you're deemed to have accepted the contract, there's no need to sign anything.


Interesting thought. I;d like to see them evidence this in court.
#19
sassie
what do the hd touch retail at, did you sell it someone who you could ask for it back


on eBay about £400 and thats where is sold it so no not really :/
banned#20
surely when you upgrade you still get paperwork?
banned#21
Jetpac
on eBay about £400 and thats where is sold it so no not really :/


jesus christ man, you really shouldnt do things like this without checking out, and to be honest as you made £300 on the phone it aint really a massive biggie about the extra £100 is it
#22
StevenA2000_uk
Interesting thought. I;d like to see them evidence this in court.


Its been standard for a few years. I think it's in the T&C's somewhere (but I've never bothered reading them !!).
#23
sassie
surely when you upgrade you still get paperwork?


You do. Its a legal requirement to evidence the continuation of any contract already in place. So the OP will either have a document outlining the package that he has been put on which constitutes a renewal, or he/she doesnt. This would have been issued on the back of the phone call that he had with them and agreed.

If the OP doesnt have that document and the company did not issue one to them then there is nothing to cancel nor any reason to continue paying the phone company.
#24
Orange did a similar thing with me. I signed up for a contract via a third party, and somewhere between me selecting the 200min/month £30 contract and them sending me out a phone, they'd bumped it up to their most expensive tarrif, which charged some absurd sum. Suffice to say, I refused to pay it, and had to threaten legal action after they sent debt collection after me.

Orange are basically just scum. Their sales staff get more money if they bump your contract up a level or two.
#25
sassie
jesus christ man, you really shouldnt do things like this without checking out, and to be honest as you made £300 on the phone it aint really a massive biggie about the extra £100 is it


I know but tbh i didnt really expect to not have the right contract and seemingly my records erased.
well it is because i was looking at putting that money on a phone not available though orange. and the only thing i have had through the post is the reciept for the phone.
#26
dxx
Orange did a similar thing with me. I signed up for a contract via a third party, and somewhere between me selecting the 200min/month £30 contract and them sending me out a phone, they'd bumped it up to their most expensive tarrif, which charged some absurd sum. Suffice to say, I refused to pay it, and had to threaten legal action after they sent debt collection after me.

Orange are basically just scum. Their sales staff get more money if they bump your contract up a level or two.


what did you do?
#27
sassie
surely when you upgrade you still get paperwork?


There 'should' have been a copy of what the op agreed to with the phone along with the info for returning it under the 7 day cool off period.
#28
sassie;4970827
jesus christ man, you really shouldnt do things like this without checking out, and to be honest as you made £300 on the phone it aint really a massive biggie about the extra £100 is it


no offence meant to you sassie, but its not only the principal of it, but its the contract entered into, not the one they wish to put you on.
So if you agreed to one contract, and theyve put you on another contract there is no meeting of minds, and thus no contract can exist as its a mistake (of some sort) which by sounds of it is in favour of the customer, thus he should be entitled to what he agreed.

Also i have done 3 upgrades although all with tmobile, and not just my own, but i always have had to sign a new agreement and return it to them. There should always be some paperwork relating to the agreement, if there is not, then there is nothing legally they can prove. And as already said the proof is on them, not you.
banned 1 Like #29
all i can say is thank the lord orange wont gve me a contract, only company that wont and yet i have BB with them, maybe thats why, dont want to give it me for free, all other companies will give me 2 contracts per year
1 Like #30
dxx
Orange did a similar thing with me. I signed up for a contract via a third party, and somewhere between me selecting the 200min/month £30 contract and them sending me out a phone, they'd bumped it up to their most expensive tarrif, which charged some absurd sum. Suffice to say, I refused to pay it, and had to threaten legal action after they sent debt collection after me.
.


In this case it's the third party sending the wrong info through to get higher commission. Happens with 'some' dealers quite a bit...
#31
StevenA2000_uk
You do. Its a legal requirement to evidence the continuation of any contract already in place. So the OP will either have a document outlining the package that he has been put on which constitutes a renewal, or he/she doesnt. This would have been issued on the back of the phone call that he had with them and agreed.

If the OP doesnt have that document and the company did not issue one to them then there is nothing to cancel nor any reason to continue paying the phone company.


ive recently upgrade with orange, the only paperwork ive had was the invoice/note with the new phone

had no probs with orange tho so cant offer any help
#32
I haven't received anything regarding the contract, just the invoice for the phone, which was paid with debit card over the phone when i upgraded...
banned#33
awoodhall2003
no offence meant to you sassie, but its not only the principal of it, but its the contract entered into, not the one they wish to put you on.
So if you agreed to one contract, and theyve put you on another contract there is no meeting of minds, and thus no contract can exist as its a mistake (of some sort) which by sounds of it is in favour of the customer, thus he should be entitled to what he agreed.

Also i have done 3 upgrades although all with tmobile, and not just my own, but i always have had to sign a new agreement and return it to them. There should always be some paperwork relating to the agreement, if there is not, then there is nothing legally they can prove. And as already said the proof is on them, not you.


no offence taken hun, but you do have take a little respnsibility in this life for your own actions too, the op could have checked all this online before selling a £400 phone on, he should have recieved paperwrk, maybe he didnt bother checking that either
#34
sassie
no offence taken hun, but you do have take a little respnsibility in this life for your own actions too, the op could have checked all this online before selling a £400 phone on, he should have recieved paperwrk, maybe he didnt bother checking that either


I Should have checked but still you don't expect to be put onto a higher tariff than agreed to with all records of the price you were offered seemingly being erased from the system.

and also it seems Orange don't send out paperwork, just a phone invoice

Rep left to people so far :)
#35
steve1221
Its been standard for a few years. I think it's in the T&C's somewhere (but I've never bothered reading them !!).


This in part is true, but only relates to the original contract package, whereby the contract reaches the agreed term and no action is carried out on it, then the T&Cs state that it will be a 1 month rolling contract at the prices and package agreed at the beginning of the term.

As the OP stated that they offered him a new package then the fact that they have "offered" him a new package that is materially different from the original contract then this in itself contitutes a new contract. This being the case they should have issued these details in a contract document to the OP for him to evalute during the cool-off period and then chose whether to cancel or continue.

From what the OP has stated, the phone company have put him on an entirely different package from what was agreed. Effectively they are charging him for something he did not ask for. And unless that can be evidenced then the OP is legally entitled to repudiate from said contract until the matter has been clarified with the phone company.

Net effect. If all the above is true then the OP does not have to continue with the incorrect package as long as he as communicated this to the phone company.
#36
Valid points.
They should be able to sort it for him tomorrow, a team leader will have access to enough of the system to show who spoke to him when. Nothing can be erased from the system, even if someone goes back and edits a notepad the original text is still stored in the audit trail.
#37
sassie;4970887
no offence taken hun, but you do have take a little respnsibility in this life for your own actions too, the op could have checked all this online before selling a £400 phone on, he should have recieved paperwrk, maybe he didnt bother checking that either


Agreed...put some people (and maybe not yourself OP) are just to make a quick buck...personally if i could get a £400 phone and say sell for £300 and my contract was £25 per month means ive got free 900mines/unlimited texts/unlimited data for a year! :-D
#38
steve1221
Valid points.
They should be able to sort it for him tomorrow, a team leader will have access to enough of the system to show who spoke to him when. Nothing can be erased from the system, even if someone goes back and edits a notepad the original text is still stored in the audit trail.


That's good news :)
As said it may be all be able to be sorted out, i just want to know where i stood over all :)
#39
awoodhall2003
Agreed...put some people (and maybe not yourself OP) are just to make a quick buck...personally if i could get a £400 phone and say sell for £300 and my contract was £25 per month means ive got free 900mines/unlimited texts/unlimited data for a year! :-D


TBH essentially that was it, i knew the worth of the phone so it was calculated to this effect as im after the G1 but thats only on T mobile.
banned#40
awoodhall2003
Agreed...put some people (and maybe not yourself OP) are just to make a quick buck...personally if i could get a £400 phone and say sell for £300 and my contract was £25 per month means ive got free 900mines/unlimited texts/unlimited data for a year! :-D


me too, mine was is £20 per month for less minutes and a 24 month contract and only a free £200 phone :w00t:

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