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Panorama just starting.......

andywedge Avatar
[mod] 6y, 5m agoPosted 6 years, 5 months ago
Anyone watching?

"The Panorama documentary on Manchester Uniteds finances is the most eagerly anticipated in the programmes history during the new media age.

The programme, entitled 'Man Utd Into the Red', is set to shed further light on the Glazer familys ability to keep control of the club by centring on their ailing shopping-mall company. It will expose £400 million of previously unknown debt and cast more uncertainty over how much money Sir Alex Ferguson will be given to strengthen his squad this summer.

Given that Panorama is screened nearly every week and is the longest running current affairs show in the world, the figures demonstrates the interest among United supporters and the broader football community in exposing the excesses of the Glazer regime"
andywedge Avatar
[mod] 6y, 5m agoPosted 6 years, 5 months ago
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[mod]#1
Kind of torn between laughing at Man Us expense and being worried about the state of finances in general in football
[mod]#2
That'll be me then

On my own :oops:

75p in every £1 that the Glazers are scamming off the fans is just crazy

At least (none MCFC head on) this programme is unmasking them for what they are and David Gill looking a fool also
banned#3
AndyWedge,

Nobody is interested apart from City fans.

Shouldn't you be more worried that your owners will get bored and depart, leaving the club in freefall ?
[mod]#4
Rather that than the state Man U are in at the moment ASB (although I'd rather have Gill than that idiot Cook)

Yeah, I don't like Man U but I love football, so this is grim viewing actually
#5
Sympathy post Andy :)
[mod]#6
1.1 Bn debt???

That's terrifying
[mod]#7
Marina
Sympathy post Andy :)


Thanks Marina :-D
#8
all the man u fans will be worrying about the start of wimbledon. I think they put their norwich scarves away until the champions league starts up again.
#9
I dont follow footy,but am always amazed at the lifestyles & amounts of money these guys get paid, back in the old days the players were getting no where near this amount of money, clubs are in serious debt yet there are no talks in cutting players wages etc, do you think as a football fan the players wages are justified ?
banned#10
andywedge;8792838
Rather that than the state Man U are in at the moment ASB (although I'd rather have Gill than that idiot Cook)

Yeah, I don't like Man U but I love football, so this is grim viewing actually


As long as they have a business plan that can service the debts, then there's not a big worry. They have enough interest from potential buyers already to know that they can take their money and run whenever the need suits.

It could be argued that some of the big spending clubs are ruining football (it's good when the club buys big from say another english club), however all they are doing is setting grossly inflated prices for other transfers as a benchmark. Decent players become worth a few millions more (plus huge wage costs) because of the current market conditions. Clubs with huge benefactors are not intent on helping anyone else with regards to football overall, perhaps that's where we should start looking ?
[mod]#11
If you take this as - Man U - one of the biggest clubs in the world - and they are that much in debt and the fans are being ripped off by so much and there isn't going to be an end to it whilst this lot have the reins and can only get worse (looking at the Glaziers combined debt = £1.1 Bn) and it's an increasing debt. I'd be really worried if I was a Man U fan. Makes what happened at Pompey look like someone lost 10p.
[mod]#12
aScottishBloke

As long as they have a business plan that can service the debts, then there's not a big worry. They have enough interest from potential buyers already to know that they can take their money and run whenever the need suits.

It could be argued that some of the big spending clubs are ruining football (it's good when the club buys big from say another english club), however all they are doing is setting grossly inflated prices for other transfers as a benchmark. Decent players become worth a few millions more (plus huge wage costs) because of the current market conditions. Clubs with huge benefactors are not intent on helping anyone else with regards to football overall, perhaps that's where we should start looking ?


That just a dig at City ASB?
#13
But that debt is slowly decreasing. As ASB said, the debt on Man U, not the glaziers, is fine, as they can afford to pay it off, being the second largest profit grossing club after real madrid. Plus the fact that if the club was in dire straits, then the club would be sold, and I doubt there would be a shortage of buyers more then willing to pump money into it.
banned#14
andywedge;8793120
That just a dig at City ASB?


Naw, don't get paranoid, City are only the most recent, not the 1st.
[mod]#15
spic
But that debt is slowly decreasing. As ASB said, the debt on Man U, not the glaziers, is fine, as they can afford to pay it off, being the second largest profit grossing club after real madrid. Plus the fact that if the club was in dire straits, then the club would be sold, and I doubt there would be a shortage of buyers more then willing to pump money into it.


So you aren't worried that the Glaziers current debt is £1.1Bn and increasing due to their other "investments" failing? And the fact that 75p out of every £1 through the turnstiles/Megastores at Man U goes to covering the Glaziers Man U debt?

I'm guessing you aren't a Man U fan - never met in the last two seasons who thinks Man U are on a financial sound base. I mean, sell Ronaldo for £80 million and replace with a free transfer perma injured Michael Owen?!?!??! There isn't another player left at Man U now who could fetch any real money in the transfer market. Berbatov might get £25 million (tops - after 18 months of averageness) and Vidic is worth something but that's about it. So the £80 M (cover the cracks) aint gonna happen this or next season and that 75p in the £1 could easily become 90p in the £1 or worse
[mod]#16
aScottishBloke

Naw, don't get paranoid, City are only the most recent, not the 1st.


Chelsea, Blackburn, Newcastle, Leeds (to a lesser extent)

Trouble is - if a club has the ££££ then trying to buy a UK based player means you get ripped off. Lescott/Santa Cruz to name just two
So, you go abroad where you don't get ripped off as much - De Jong/Kompany/
banned#17
andywedge;8793270
So you aren't worried that the Glaziers current debt is £1.1Bn and increasing due to their other "investments" failing? And the fact that 75p out of every £1 through the turnstiles/Megastores at Man U goes to covering the Glaziers Man U debt?

I'm guessing you aren't a Man U fan - never met in the last two seasons who thinks Man U are on a financial sound base. I mean, sell Ronaldo for £80 million and replace with a free transfer perma injured Michael Owen?!?!??! There isn't another player left at Man U now who could fetch any real money in the transfer market. Berbatov might get £25 million (tops - after 18 months of averageness) and Vidic is worth something but that's about it. So the £80 M (cover the cracks) aint gonna happen this or next season and that 75p in the £1 could easily become 90p in the £1 or worse


Bad example, Fergie will get it right more often than not re Owen. Berbatov, you've added prob 15 million to his true value in the current market.

City fans don't contribute anywhere near the cost of running their team, nor would they be in a position to bale out should someone get bored.

United seems the best bet for me.
banned#18
andywedge;8793325
Chelsea, Blackburn, Newcastle, Leeds (to a lesser extent)

Trouble is - if a club has the ££££ then trying to buy a UK based player means you get ripped off. Lescott/Santa Cruz to name just two
So, you go abroad where you don't get ripped off as much - De Jong/Kompany/


Oops, you forgot Robhinio.
[mod]#19
aScottishBloke

Oops, you forgot Robhinio.


He was a "statement of intent" signing and don't think you'll find many City fans who don't think it was a bad signing and hopefully Mansoor has sussed that out now. IE "Rome wasn't built in a day" so don't buy players who are just "names"
#20
andywedge
So you aren't worried that the Glaziers current debt is £1.1Bn and increasing due to their other "investments" failing? And the fact that 75p out of every £1 through the turnstiles/Megastores at Man U goes to covering the Glaziers Man U debt?

I'm guessing you aren't a Man U fan - never met in the last two seasons who thinks Man U are on a financial sound base. I mean, sell Ronaldo for £80 million and replace with a free transfer perma injured Michael Owen?!?!??! There isn't another player left at Man U now who could fetch any real money in the transfer market. Berbatov might get £25 million (tops - after 18 months of averageness) and Vidic is worth something but that's about it. So the £80 M (cover the cracks) aint gonna happen this or next season and that 75p in the £1 could easily become 90p in the £1 or worse


You guessed wrong. But a lot of it is spin. Take the net value of the Glaziers current three business ventures - they are currently worth 2.13 billion (these figures are taken from the anti-glazier feller Andy Green, who is advisor to the MU supporters trust), means they have a net assets value after debts of around 1 billion (dependant on the sources you look at).

Yes, these debts are high, but as I mentioned before they are manageable, and the Glaziers have been managing debts within their business' for many years.

You also forgot Valencia, and what SAF loves to do - bring from the youth squad - such as rafael and Evans.

Comparing them to Pompy is like comparing chalk and cheese in my opinion - Pompy is a very small south coast team with a fan base that doesn't really reach out of the city, which is mostly comprised of students and sailors anyway, and certainly does not have any international following. Man U are completely different however, and a very promising investment for someone if the club were to be sold.
banned#21
andywedge
Kind of torn between laughing at Man Us expense and being worried about the state of finances in general in football


andywedge
That'll be me then

On my own :oops:

75p in every £1 that the Glazers are scamming off the fans is just crazy

At least (none MCFC head on) this programme is unmasking them for what they are and David Gill looking a fool also


aScottishBloke
AndyWedge,

Nobody is interested apart from City fans.

Shouldn't you be more worried that your owners will get bored and depart, leaving the club in freefall ?


andywedge
Rather that than the state Man U are in at the moment ASB (although I'd rather have Gill than that idiot Cook)

Yeah, I don't like Man U but I love football, so this is grim viewing actually


MOD FIGHT MOD FIGHT!!!

inb4 susp.
[mod]#22
aScottishBloke

Bad example, Fergie will get it right more often than not re Owen. Berbatov, you've added prob 15 million to his true value in the current market.

City fans don't contribute anywhere near the cost of running their team, nor would they be in a position to bale out should someone get bored.

United seems the best bet for me.


Three seasons ago - yes for sure; but not now.

City fans contribute a helluva lot more than 25p in the £1 - our money goes into Man City not into some debt ridden owners pockets

You are right about Berbatov - I was being very generous at his value; but your comment only backs up my point that Man U no longer have anything of value that they can sell to ease this debt and it can only get worse for the Man U fans whilst this lot are running the show
[mod]#23
spic
You guessed wrong. But a lot of it is spin. Take the net value of the Glaziers current three business ventures - they are currently worth 2.13 billion (these figures are taken from the anti-glazier feller Andy Green, who is advisor to the MU supporters trust), means they have a net assets value after debts of around 1 billion (dependant on the sources you look at).

Yes, these debts are high, but as I mentioned before they are manageable, and the Glaziers have been managing debts within their business' for many years.

You also forgot Valencia, and what SAF loves to do - bring from the youth squad - such as rafael and Evans.

Comparing them to Pompy is like comparing chalk and cheese in my opinion - Pompy is a very small south coast team with a fan base that doesn't really reach out of the city, which is mostly comprised of students and sailors anyway, and certainly does not have any international following. Man U are completely different however, and a very promising investment for someone if the club were to be sold.


Did you see Panorama? Seriously, I'd be really worried. No doubting it was made by a member of the Delia Smith appreciation bunch at Old T but even if half of what was said was/is true that's a grim state of affairs
#24
andywedge
Did you see Panorama? Seriously, I'd be really worried. No doubting it was made by a member of the Delia Smith appreciation bunch at Old T but even if half of what was said was/is true that's a grim state of affairs


I did not, but I still think a lot of it is pure hype against a group of people who have been demonised for the way they do business. Granted, this is probably not the best way to work it though.
However, as I mentioned before, if the Glaziers were to sell the Bucs, they would almost completely wipe out all of the debt that is currently owed, however, they obviously feel that they can pay that debt with Man U earnings (something I am not sure about). BUT, with the current value of their assets,the debt is not currently something that needs to be worried about. AND, as has been mentioned before, SAF does have a kitty to spend at Man U (dependant on who you believe of course, but I think this would be a difficult one to cover up).
#25
Andy you forgot about rooney when you said no one else was worth any money at OT. I think if he were to go they'd get over 100m at the current transfer ridiculousness.
#26
The reason football is debt riddled is because they pay a bunch of morons several years salary a WEEK to play a game. Of course that's not sustainable.
#27
andywedge
So you aren't worried that the Glaziers current debt is £1.1Bn and increasing due to their other "investments" failing? And the fact that 75p out of every £1 through the turnstiles/Megastores at Man U goes to covering the Glaziers Man U debt?

I'm guessing you aren't a Man U fan - never met in the last two seasons who thinks Man U are on a financial sound base. I mean, sell Ronaldo for £80 million and replace with a free transfer perma injured Michael Owen?!?!??! There isn't another player left at Man U now who could fetch any real money in the transfer market. Berbatov might get £25 million (tops - after 18 months of averageness) and Vidic is worth something but that's about it. So the £80 M (cover the cracks) aint gonna happen this or next season and that 75p in the £1 could easily become 90p in the £1 or worse


How about Evra the French Captain and arguably the best left back in the world (+Rooney but he'll be at Unted for life!)?! But shame is I have to agree the Glaziers need to be outed and as much as I hate to admit it Man U's finances are in a bit of a mess at the moment and it is worrying that as fast as united is earning the money, the interest is swallowing it up. Love United, hate Glazier.
#28
stephen4X
The reason football is debt riddled is because they pay a bunch of morons several years salary a WEEK to play a game. Of course that's not sustainable.


That's very true but if the FA, for example, was to cut all the players wages as a requirement the best players would just go abroad. There's no way to put a pay cap on wages globally and so if you want the premier league to stay at such a good standard and if you want to compete in the champions league (i.e. keep the money pouring in - much more than players are getting paid!) then you have to accept that it is the way it is.
#29
If you capped the wages then the excess money has to go somewhere else, most likely then into boardmembers pockets.

Would rather the players get the millions than the fat cats.
[mod]#30
mcnally32
Andy you forgot about rooney when you said no one else was worth any money at OT. I think if he were to go they'd get over 100m at the current transfer ridiculousness.


Ooops yes - he is worth a bob or two :oops:
That would be a sign o' the times if they had to sell him though
[mod]#31
Just about to start on BBC1

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