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Paypal Chargeback

fordy Avatar
1d, 5m agoPosted 1 decade, 5 months ago
A while back in April this year, I purchased £300 worth off goods from a seller in the USA and used Paypal to pay (unrelated to an eBay sale)

So much so that I am still awaiting delivery of the goods.

I tried to chargeback via Paypal's dispute section, however it is past 45 days so can not be done.

Can I claim via my AMex card? I heard Paypal call this an unauthorised chargeback and they lock your account.

Is this true and the best way forward?

Thanks
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fordy Avatar
1d, 5m agoPosted 1 decade, 5 months ago
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[admin]#1
Try pm'ing dinosteveus as he is an eBay guru and thus knows a lot about PayPal.

I am not sure of the best thing to do now that the chargeback period has ended. In the past (I know this isn't useful now) what I"ve done in this situation is start the chargeback before the period has ended even if I think the seller will make good. Over a month is too long in any situation so you are easily justified in starting the dispute procedure and if the seller makes good you can just close down the dispute without repercussion.
#2
welcome to Paypals world of fraud. I stopped using Paypal because of silly rules like these. Theres no way out of this via Paypal - they will never help. Its difficult to do anything this late to be honest ...
#3
I've decided to only use PayPal lightly, I don't think I would take a chance on spending higher amounts of money through them.
#4
I too only use paypal lightly or when I really have to. Had an awful experience selling an item a few years back and vowed never to use the service again bacause of the way I was treated.

If at all possible I will use nochex for online payments or bank transfers.
#5
Sorry, but for some reason I missed this post.

Fordy, your only option now is your credit card provider. Paypal will not close your account as far as I know. Some C/C companies are funny about dealing with Paypal but with it being a high amount you should be OK.

Paypal IS very safe if you follow the rules and check out your buyers and sellers.

Always use a trackable service, £32.00 and under R/D is fine, above that amount use S/D or a trackable Courier with the right amount of insurance.
Put the tracking number in the Paypal transaction details page.
NEVER accept Paypal for items that are being picked up. If you really have to, send a copy of the invoice to the buyer by R/D or S/D so you have a tracking number.
Check your buyers/sellers feedback (if possible), go back as far as you can. Look for additions to feedback that has been left.
See what else they are selling/buying.

I have 5 ebay selling accounts and I spend at least 15 minutes checking my bidders out. If I'm not happy with what I see I'll cancel their bid or I'll just not complete the sale.

If anybody wants me to 'look' into a buyer/seller that they are dealing with or want to deal with PM me. I cannot guarantee 100% you will be safe but I've only had one problem in thousands of transactions I've been involved in.
#6
why 5? somthing to hide? :)
surely you'd want all your feedback together for the highest score, and for higher monthly scores etc
#7
Reaps
why 5? somthing to hide? :)
surely you'd want all your feedback together for the highest score, and for higher monthly scores etc


NO, nothing to hide.
I use one account for high value items so my buyers can see that I sell high priced items without any problems.
One account is for DVD's because that can be a 'dodgy' market.
One is for low value things only.
One is for general mid range items.
One's a 'spare' one.:wink:

Feedback scores don't mean that much. My feedbacks are high enough to speak for themselves. You don't get anything from ebay for having a high feedback.
Power Sellers can have a very low feedback.
All you need to have P/P B/P regarding feedback is a score of 50 and a high percentage of positives.

What could I have to hide?
#8
Hidden or private feedback can be read using online resources anyway. There was a site posted in the forum somewhere for that...
#9
Rayman,
You used to be able to check private feedback with Goofbay but now you have to do it the 'long' way since ebay stopped them doing it.
#10
Dino
It's one thing I never understand about ebay. Why keep your feedback score private?

I mean if it's good then you've no worries and so logically it must be bad.

I personally would therefore never deal with someone who's score is hidden as to me the're only hiding a bad score!
#11
Ah :) I just remembered seeing it here somewhere, but couldn't remember the name. Thanks!
#12
I am the same way, if I see hidden feedback, it makes me think someone has something to hide [which they do lol]. But I wouldn't feel comfortable buying from them.
#13
I partly agree about private feedback but most of the time it's private for a good reason:-
Somebody could be buying something for their partner and their partner knows their ebay name. If it's private they would not know how much it cost.
A seller could be selling a heavy item and they may have bought a courier service from a Parcel Re-seller on ebay, they would not want the buyer to know how much they paid for delivery if they charged more than they paid. (I can get a 30kg item delivered in the UK for under £8 but, depending on the item I would charge between £10 - £12) My buyer may not be happy if they think I made £4 on shipping.
It could be private because they are expecting a negative feedback and it could be a nasty one.
#14
I was under the impression that a lot of sellers "hike" their postage fees to recover some of the costs, especially as ebay fees don't apply to postage. So to me this wouldn't be a problem unless of course the "hike" was silly.

Re the negative feedback aspect if it is nasty surely people should be able to see so they know either seller is dodgy or buyer is OTT?
#15
Well, the negative feedback would be there for prospective buyers to make up their own minds if the extra delivery costs are fair or not. I wouldn't moan about delivery charges for heavy items being around £10 to £12, that's less than some of the big retailers charge :) Being open about selling there, is surely more beneficial in the long run?
#16
Getting a bit back from small sales by way of postage costs is fair enough, as long as it's not over the top. I recently bought a CD set which cost around £2 but the postage was £4. That was ridiculously high, but the set was worth it to me at that price, so didn't matter... Only two CD's in a case by the way...
#17
[SIZE=2]There are no ebay fees (FVF) on P&P but Paypal still charge you 3.4% and 20p on the full amount.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]A lot of sellers try fee avoidance, BIN 99p and £450 P&P.[/SIZE]
#18
Yeah that's one of the big annoyances, but it also helps spot the deals from overseas more easily :)
#19
Unless the seller has Paypals B/P you should be very wary buyer from somebody like that. High P&P and low BIN are dodgy if you only have ebays standard purchase protection because ebay charge a £15 admin fee and do not include the P&P when you claim through them.
Paypals buyer protection covers you for the full amount you paid.
#20
rayman
it also helps spot the deals from overseas more easily :)

Yes it does.
#21
fordy
A while back in April this year, I purchased £300 worth off goods from a seller in the USA and used Paypal to pay (unrelated to an eBay sale)

So much so that I am still awaiting delivery of the goods.

I tried to chargeback via Paypal's dispute section, however it is past 45 days so can not be done.

Can I claim via my AMex card? I heard Paypal call this an unauthorised chargeback and they lock your account.

Is this true and the best way forward?

Thanks


According to section 75 of the consumers credit act, the credit card provider is jointly responsible with the retailer in case anything goes wrong.

Just write to your credit card provider and include this statement in your letter and they'll reverse the transaction straight away.

I've had the same problem with a buyer from the United States who never sent the display card I ordered (was nearly £130). I contacted Paypal and they were as useless as they could be so I contacted Halifax and they reversed the transaction same day they received my letter.

For more information please have a look at http://www.howtocomplain.co.uk
#22
rayman
Getting a bit back from small sales by way of postage costs is fair enough, as long as it's not over the top. I recently bought a CD set which cost around £2 but the postage was £4. That was ridiculously high, but the set was worth it to me at that price, so didn't matter... Only two CD's in a case by the way...


It's something I've noticed has been going steadily up, with a lot of the items I look at these days the sellers are clearly upping the postage to reduce the fees. For example, I've been looking at a certain type of mouse worth around 25 pounds delivered - many of the ebay sellers are charging 15-17 pounds with eight to ten pounds shipping. I tend to let it go but it annoys me a bit as it makes it more difficult to shop for items as the overall cost is not obvious.

I've seen some people take it to extremes, I was surprised to see a laptop close to the end of the auction for just 20 pounds. The seller was wanting 400 pounds for postage and packing, they even said in their auction their P&P charge was set high to avoid ebay fees. I'm surprised ebay are not clamping down on it more as they are losing a lot of money because of it, I guess it's difficult as the postage rate is entirely dependent on the auction itself.

One useful tip I find is to set your general search parameters to inclde the postage rate which makes it a lot easier at a glance which auctions to avoid.

John
#23
Johnmcl7
I'm surprised ebay are not clamping down on it more as they are losing a lot of money because of it, I guess it's difficult as the postage rate is entirely dependent on the auction itself.


Ebay will only 'do' something if the item is reported.
If the item has Paypals full B/P then I think as long as the TOTAL price is good, then I ain't fussed what the seller charges for P&P.

Don't forget that ebay own Paypal so they will still make a fair bit, 3.4%.
#24
People hide their feedback for two reasons:

1. It's bad and they don't want people to see it.

2. They have been buying/selling dodgy goods (Porn, dodgy DVDs etc and don't want other people seeing it.

Anyway, my paypal story:

Bought an item for a fiver or so and it didn't come anywhere close to the description. Asked seller for a refund (As per their "guarantee") and was told to f off.

Filed a claim via paypal as the item was substantially not as described. Paypal duly investigated.

The result? Paypal refused the claim because "THE SELLER IS UNABLE TO PROVE YOU RECEIVED THE ITEM"

Eh?!!
#25
Andy,
You should have claimed for item not received after the seller told you what to do. It sounds like it was not sent by a trackable way and if that was/is the case Paypal will always side with the buyer.
#26
Too much dodgy stuff gets by ebay these days.

I've also noticed quite a few items being sold minus the VAT included in the price, so I bet many buyers get caught out by those too.

I agree with Johnmcl7, that eBay should tighten up on certain practices. I'm sure it never used to be so complicated to buy a bargain from there...
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
#27
dinosteveus
Andy,
You should have claimed for item not received after the seller told you what to do. It sounds like it was not sent by a trackable way and if that was/is the case Paypal will always side with the buyer.


With hindsight I should have!

However, I did receive the item and at the time didn't know the seller hadn't sent the item via a trackable method.

For all I know I could have submitted a claim for non delivery and the seller produced a certificate of posting. I naturally assumed that taking the honest route would produce results..I was wrong.

Anyway, I had the last laugh. I forwarded the emails telling me to "f off" etc to ebay and they closed the sellers account (200+ feedback)!

Justice was served!
#28
AndyToys
People hide their feedback for two reasons:

1. It's bad and they don't want people to see it.

2. They have been buying/selling dodgy goods (Porn, dodgy DVDs etc and don't want other people seeing it.

Anyway, my paypal story:

Bought an item for a fiver or so and it didn't come anywhere close to the description. Asked seller for a refund (As per their "guarantee") and was told to f off.

Filed a claim via paypal as the item was substantially not as described. Paypal duly investigated.

The result? Paypal refused the claim because "THE SELLER IS UNABLE TO PROVE YOU RECEIVED THE ITEM"

Eh?!!


thats not true. My feedback is private (99.2%) and the 1 negative a recieved was a spitefull response from someone i bought off and he tried to get more money out of me after the sale. I dont buy/sell porn, dodgy dvds etc, but i also dont want all and sundry ( i.e. work mates and other people that know me knowing what i do buy and sell. Its nothing dodgy, just a personal thing
#29
rayman
I'm sure it never used to be so complicated to buy a bargain from there...



I think they should have a box that prominently displays the total cost, ie inclusive of VAT/Tax, postage etc..

ie, what you see is what you pay.
#30
Muwolves
i also dont want all and sundry ( i.e. work mates and other people that know me knowing what i do buy and sell. Its nothing dodgy, just a personal thing
Hehe... They'll be asking where that pair of socks went they bought you for Christmas :roll:
#31
AndyToys
I think they should have a box that prominently displays the total cost, ie inclusive of VAT/Tax, postage etc..

ie, what you see is what you pay.
Well, at least inclusive of VAT...
#32
Muwolves
thats not true. My feedback is private (99.2%) and the 1 negative a recieved was a spitefull response from someone i bought off and he tried to get more money out of me after the sale. I dont buy/sell porn, dodgy dvds etc, but i also dont want all and sundry ( i.e. work mates and other people that know me knowing what i do buy and sell. Its nothing dodgy, just a personal thing


Obviously there are other reasons for private feedback..!

If the feedback left for you contains ANY personal information I believe that ebay will remove it.

As for me I have received three or so negs..one from someone who didn't read the description and didn't bother to contact me (I'll always refund if someone is unhappy)

The other two have been retalitory feedback left by sellers, ie I have left negs/neutrals because the seller hasn't shipped the goods and won't communicate and they leave a neg in return.

I always use the "post a follow up" feature to leave a comment for bad feedback!
#33
rayman
Hehe... They'll be asking where that pair of socks went they bought you for Christmas :roll:


...or the staples that have been vanishing from the stationery cupboard!

:grin:
#34
Dinosteveus,

I'd be much obliged if you could share the details of your couriers. I'm using looking at changing from royal mail and the couriers all seem much of a muchness.

A personal recommendation would go a long way.

Cheers
#35
Hi allysat,
I use http://www.p4d.co.uk/ who are one of the cheapest Parcel re-sellers around. They have contracts with ParcelForce, ANC and TNT. (Next day delivery is £9.99 inc VAT with a 5% discount) They can even deliver things like canoes, fishing rods and other long/awkward or heavy items fairly cheaply.
I negotiated a 5% discount and everybody can use this (long story). It is yorkie and needs to be put in the referral/discount box when you put in the size. I use that code all the time. I make nothing from P4D for recommending them. I've been using them for over two years.
I have a list of over 20 carriers/couriers and if you P/M I'll pass on the link.
#36
Thanks Dinosteveus

I'll give them a try
#37
AndyToys
With hindsight I should have!

However, I did receive the item and at the time didn't know the seller hadn't sent the item via a trackable method.

For all I know I could have submitted a claim for non delivery and the seller produced a certificate of posting. I naturally assumed that taking the honest route would produce results..I was wrong.

Anyway, I had the last laugh. I forwarded the emails telling me to "f off" etc to ebay and they closed the sellers account (200+ feedback)!

Justice was served!


If you did NOT sign for delivery it was NOT trackable.
Certificate of posting is NOT enough for Paypal it needs to be trackable:- R/D, S/D, ISF, Airsure or Courier/Carrier.

A result in the end for you though.
#38
AndyToys
Obviously there are other reasons for private feedback..!

If the feedback left for you contains ANY personal information I believe that ebay will remove it.

As for me I have received three or so negs..one from someone who didn't read the description and didn't bother to contact me (I'll always refund if someone is unhappy)

The other two have been retalitory feedback left by sellers, ie I have left negs/neutrals because the seller hasn't shipped the goods and won't communicate and they leave a neg in return.

I always use the "post a follow up" feature to leave a comment for bad feedback!

If you go to ebay Taiwan you can leave a 125 character feedback unlike the UK's 85. Very handy for getting your point across.
If the recipient knows you 'went' to Taiwan to leave a NEG he can complain to ebay and it could be removed. I've never had one removed.
#39
That's interesting :) There's a lot you can say with an extra 40 characters...

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