Play.com unfair use of their Terms and Conditions - Trading Standards investigates - HotUKDeals
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Play.com unfair use of their Terms and Conditions - Trading Standards investigates

flamefix Avatar
8y, 1w agoPosted 8 years, 1 week ago
There are probably quite a few community members who would like to see a temporary ban on Play deals being advertised or at least the following prominently included with any promo.

Warning !
Shopping at Play.com
Be advised that they have recently changed their Terms and Conditions.
Please make sure you read them carefully.

As a community can we have a vote on this or would the mod's simply consider the current community opinion certainly while Trading Standards investigates them?

See what I mean ;-)
- Shengis
thanks
Play have terms and conditions, they haven't abided by them, when they do they are selective about it. Trading standards are investigating them, the OFT indicate they aware of problems, when Play are questioned about their terms they remove the ones they think affect them negatively, when they do so they are supposed to inform all clients they have done so on their homepage. Their rules not mine. Now if you are happy about the fact that this is their attitude then fine vote not to have a warning if you're not then vote for a warning or a ban on promoting them.
Other Links From Play.Com:
flamefix Avatar
8y, 1w agoPosted 8 years, 1 week ago
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#1
whats the significant change in T&Cs?
#2
This smiley just sums up my view of this thread: :roll:
#3
StevenA2000_uk
whats the significant change in T&Cs?


Ditto what have they changed?
#4
OP: Please make sure you read them carefully.


Just did. Dont see anything materially different in the T&Cs from any other online retailer.

It would be helpful to the HUKD audience if you could be more specific regarding your post, otherwise people might just deem you to have a grudge against Play.com and perceive your remarks to be defamatory.

:-D
#5
Last week Play removed the following from their Ts&Cs:
[FONT="]
Title to any product ordered will pass to you once Play.com has received payment in full for that product. [/FONT]

This puts customers in a less defendable position should a dispute arise.

They also have this statement in their Ts&Cs:
[FONT="]Play.com may amend these Terms from time to time, and place the new version on the Site. When Play.com do so, it will mention the fact on our home page ([url]www.play.com[/url]). [/FONT]

To-date they have not seen fit to "[FONT="]mention the fact on our home page".


[/FONT]
#6
melipona
Last week Play removed the following from their Ts&Cs:
[FONT="]
Title to any product ordered will pass to you once Play.com has received payment in full for that product. [/FONT]

This puts customers in a less defendable position should a dispute arise.

They also have this statement in their Ts&Cs:
[FONT="]Play.com may amend these Terms from time to time, and place the new version on the Site. When Play.com do so, it will mention the fact on our home page ([url]www.play.com[/url]). [/FONT]

To-date they have not seen fit to "[FONT="]mention the fact on our home page".

[/FONT]


Dont see how this is materially different from anywhere else. If you were selling an item, would you consider it to be owned by someone before they had paid for it?...maybe I'm misunderstanding you, I dont know but thats the way its conveyed. If they have removed that then it makes no different, all online purchases (or most) are considered invitation to treat, the payment for any items (say by debit/credit) card only serves to check and reserve that the customer purchasing has the required funds available.

If its a case of Play are removing the specific clause from their T&Cs then it only serves the customer more weight if it ever came to clarification. And given that once an item is delivered it in your possession then, well...self explanatory from there onwards.

With regards to the T&C changes, do you have evidence to proove that they didnt put a notice or mention on their homepage?

Dont see this being an issue at all.
#7
i guess they are saying that they can refuse to send you something, even after taking payment, and then issue a refund.. i.e cementing a misprice policy that means when they mess up we won't be reaping the benefits..
#8
StevenA2000_uk;3611866
Dont see how this is materially different from anywhere else. If you were selling an item, would you consider it to be owned by someone before they had paid for it?...maybe I'm misunderstanding you, I dont know but thats the way its conveyed.

But if you had paid, would you expect to have a fair claim to ownership? I and a number of others did, it was after all in their Ts&Cs. Play has had our money but has not delivered the goods.

With regards to the T&C changes, do you have evidence to proove that they didnt put a notice or mention on their homepage?


I suggest that you visit the site and check yourself:whistling:
#9
melipona
I suggest that you visit the site and check yourself:whistling:


Dont need to. OP is the one trying to make a point, if the OP (or anyone else for that matter), doesnt have evidence to back up what they are saying then its nonsense.

But I'll take your comment under advisement :whistling:
#10
StevenA2000_uk
Dont see how this is materially different from anywhere else. If you were selling an item, would you consider it to be owned by someone before they had paid for it?..

Dont see this being an issue at all.


Thats the point , play accepted the order , accepted the money , said it was posted then cancelled the order.

the old terms and conditions basically said......
once they take your money the item belongs to you

the argument here is........Is it ok for a company to move the goalposts every day ?
#11
The key points are I guess:

They have made changes to their terms and conditions that affect you the purchaser regarding title to the goods.

In their terms and conditions they are supposed to notify you of this on their homepage.

Their terms and conditions are believed to be confusing and misleading which under law would make them void.

Trading standards are currently investigating them and their behaviour.

I hope if there are any other points others can post them or see the thread

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/280981/hewlett-packard-hp-c7280-wireless-a/showthread.php?p=3611724&posted=1
#12
springbrucesteen
Thats the point , play accepted the order , accepted the money , said it was posted then cancelled the order.

the old terms and conditions basically said......
once they take your money the item belongs to you

the argument here is........Is it ok for a company to move the goalposts every day ?


Yes it is. Nobody is forcing people to buy form them. If they are deemed to be a dodgy company then its simple, dont buy from them.

Personally I've never had problem with them at all, any issues that have arisen, Play have always been swift at rectifying them. I dont see why a Play customer who has never had any issues with them should just jump on the band wagon just because somebody says so.
#13
StevenA2000_uk
Yes it is. Nobody is forcing people to buy form them. If they are deemed to be a dodgy company then its simple, dont buy from them.

Personally I've never had problem with them at all, any issues that have arisen, Play have always been swift at rectifying them. I dont see why a Play customer who has never had any issues with them should just jump on the band wagon just because somebody says so.


do you work for play ?
#14
springbrucesteen
do you work for play ?


lol..here we go, so I have a different opinion from you, so what. You going to try the antagonistic replies now? lol....

and no, I dont work for Play, never have done. I buy from the website a lot and never had any reason to complain to them. I've always received excellent Customer Service from them whenever I've had an issue with my item and they have always recitifed it including refunding the postage costs I have paid out to return any items.

So I have no reason to slate the company nor join your Anti-Play.com mob. But I'm really enjoying debating the issue! :w00t:
#15
StevenA2000_uk
lol..here we go, so I have a different opinion from you, so what. You going to try the antagonistic replies now? lol....

and no, I dont work for Play, never have done. I buy from the website a lot and never had any reason to complain to them. I've always received excellent Customer Service from them whenever I've had an issue with my item and they have always recitifed it including refunding the postage costs I have paid out to return any items.

So I have no reason to slate the company nor join your Anti-Play.com mob. But I'm really enjoying debating the issue! :w00t:


so you would still think they are the best company in the world if they took your money , said your item was posted then decided they didnt want to give you the item and held onto your money for a few days.

you should stand up for yourself now and again :p
#16
StevenA2000_uk;3611990
Yes it is. Nobody is forcing people to buy form them. If they are deemed to be a dodgy company then its simple, dont buy from them. .


The sad thing here is that up until recently I too had respect for Play, but they have failed the acid test. The vast majority of sales transactions are trouble free, it is only when a dispute occurs that you have to resort to examining the detail and need stand up for what is right.

It is my view that I had a contract with Play, they appear to have reneged, when a paragraph of their own terms was pointed out to them they removed that term. They then failed again to comply with their Ts&Cs by not mentioning that change on their homepage.

Think about recent online purchases from other retailers, did you positively accept their Ts&Cs, (usually with a tick box), did the same happen with Play?

Did you know that your transaction with Play is, according to their Ts&Cs [FONT="]subject to the laws and exclusive jurisdiction of the Island of Jersey, Channel Islands." ? Did you think that you would be protected by your UK consumer rights? If so read this.


[/FONT]
#17
springbrucesteen
so you would still think they are the best company in the world if they took your money , said your item was posted then decided they didnt want to give you the item and held onto your money for a few days.

you should stand up for yourself now and again :p


lol...whatever floats your boat....knock your socks off if you think you'll get anywhere with this thread....:whistling:
#18
melipona
The sad thing here is that up until recently I too had respect for Play, but they have failed the acid test. The vast majority of sales transactions are trouble free, it is only when a dispute occurs that you have to resort to examining the detail and need stand up for what is right.

It is my view that I had a contract with Play, they appear to have reneged, when a paragraph of their own terms was pointed out to them they removed that term. They then failed again to comply with their Ts&Cs by not mentioning that change on their homepage.

Think about recent online purchases from other retailers, did you positively accept their Ts&Cs, (usually with a tick box), did the same happen with Play?

Did you know that your transaction with Play is, according to their Ts&Cs [FONT="]subject to the laws and exclusive jurisdiction of the Island of Jersey, Channel Islands." ? Did you think that you would be protected by your UK consumer rights? If so read this.


[/FONT]


Now this seems like a more reasonable and supportive reply. :-D
#19
StevenA2000_uk
Now this seems like a more reasonable and supportive reply. :-D


What we are saying is that there are hundreds of understandably angry people with Play, they have messed people around by trying to hide behind element of their terms and condtiions. It was pointed out to them from people on this site that their T&C's are wrong/contradictory.

Play have acknowledged this is a problem by removing the article that gives HotUKDeal customers "the win". This is an inherent admittance of guilt. Trading standards have received many complaints about this and are negotiating on all of our behalfs and i would expect that it will be found in our favour.

We understand everyone has the right to buy from whoever but given the choice now, a lot of reasonable customers are going to avoid using them in the future for sure. I guess this thread just tries to warn people that this has happened and give people more information in making their purchasing decisions.
#20
billigmeister
What we are saying is that there are hundreds of understandably angry people with Play, they have messed people around by trying to hide behind element of their terms and condtiions. It was pointed out to them from people on this site that their T&C's are wrong/contradictory.

Play have acknowledged this is a problem by removing the article that gives HotUKDeal customers "the win". This is an inherent admittance of guilt. Trading standards have received many complaints about this and are negotiating on all of our behalfs and i would expect that it will be found in our favour.

We understand everyone has the right to buy from whoever but given the choice now, a lot of reasonable customers are going to avoid using them in the future for sure. I guess this thread just tries to warn people that this has happened and give people more information in making their purchasing decisions.



If this reply appeared in the post description then I'd have supported it from the outset. :thumbsup:
#21
Cool

They are being poor about this and we all know the best way to effect a large company is to "vote with your feet".

We all have had many issues with companies over time and i have certainly said "will never use so and so company ever again" but have gone back with on occassion but this is definetely one that most of the people effected will avoid in the future. It helps when there are so many alternatives to buy from i guess.
#22
Umm, this seems to be getting heated quickly. OP is RIGHT about this.

Play.com have 2 terms in their T&C's of interest. Bascially, they state that the goods you have purchased to not belong to you until they are despatched. The terms DID say they belong to you when you pay.

Basically, they are trying to cover the misprices they do on purpose to increase traffic through the website.
#23
lets also put it this way, when you pay for something, they have taken your money, do you have right to the goods? basically, these terms say NO until they have left the warehouse.
#24
Maybe you should tell that to the 1000's in this thread then http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284491

who ordered and item and have paid for it then had their order cancelled by Dell. And if you read their T&Cs, theirs arent much different. Dell is also notorious for price errors but dont always honour them as is the case here with them selling a laptop for £99. Problem is that some people are getting them and some who have paid, arent....

Truth is unless you can make any serious dent to the company whether by mob rule or by Trading Standards then all you're doing is wasting your time.

There is no right or wrong here, just a supported opinion.:thumbsup:


Edit : I should also point out that GamingExtreme.co.uk have done this with many customers with the Wii Fit, myself included. They have taken payment for the order (and not refunded it by the way), and then cancelled their order. Trading Standard are taking them to court though for fraudulent purposes.

Play isnt the only company out there that does this, lets face it, how many of us actually read all the T&Cs of every online retailer every time we buy a product online?.........
#25
StevenA2000_uk
Maybe you should tell that to the 1000's in this thread then http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284491

who ordered and item and have paid for it then had their order cancelled by Dell. And if you read their T&Cs, theirs arent much different. Dell is also notorious for price errors but dont always honour them as is the case here with them selling a laptop for £99. Problem is that some people are getting them and some who have paid, arent....

Truth is unless you can make any serious dent to the company whether by mob rule or by Trading Standards then all you're doing is wasting your time.

There is no right or wrong here, just a supported opinion.:thumbsup:


I think you dont have an opinion until you have been shafted by them?
#26
aircanman
I think you dont have an opinion until you have been shafted by them?


Then the post is a moot one. It should state that only people who have been sh****d by Play please respond. :p
#27
If anyone went to Argos and paid for a a ps3 on their credit card an were just about to leave shop and manager came out and refused you exit before taking back the ps3 you had just paid for would anyone be upset about that and think it was a bit unfair if not illegal ?
#28
How can Trading Standards be investigating this when Play.com is based in Jersey, where they have no jurisdiction?
#29
dxx;3612776
How can Trading Standards be investigating this when Play.com is based in Jersey, where they have no jurisdiction?

[FONT=Times][SIZE=4][FONT=Times] [B]TradingStandards Service[/B]
[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times][SIZE=3][FONT=Times] Economic Development Department
9-13 Central Market, St. Helier,
Jersey JE2 4WL
Tel: (01534) 705560 Fax: (01534) 766475
e-mail: [FONT=Times][COLOR=#0000ff][email protected][/COLOR][/FONT]
www.gov.je

[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]The aim of Jersey’s Trading Standards Service is. "Protecting and encouraging confidence for the consumer within a fair trading environment “
#30
What a load of old **** :roll:
#31
Shengis
What a load of old **** :roll:


in all fairness, this has come of theback of the printer issue. Basically, play mispriced things, took money from us. And diddnt deliver.

Because trading standards has been informed, they have now changed their terms.

Plus their service is awful, the staff dont have a clue what they are doing. And have never helped when I have had a query.
#32
Shengis
What a load of old **** :roll:


Totally agree 100%. :whistling:
#33
aircanman
in all fairness, this has come of theback of the printer issue. Basically, play mispriced things, took money from us. And diddnt deliver.

Because trading standards has been informed, they have now changed their terms.

Plus their service is awful, the staff dont have a clue what they are doing. And have never helped when I have had a query.


best leave the happy ones too it
#34
billigmeister
best leave the happy ones too it


Sounds like a plan to me:thumbsup: All this does is put play on level trading terms with every other online retailer. I don't have to like it to accept it.

By the way my brother in law gave me a play voucher for my birthday in July, still haven't managed to spend it. Could have spent it 10 times over at HMV or Amazon. Says it all really :lol:
#35
I only really posted this here to get a vote on a simple choice, if there were a proper poll facility you would have a choice but no debate. Unfortunately there is no facility, nevertheless can we stick to the point and vote on the issue of whether Play unfairly use their own terms and conditions to suit themselves as and when they choose, to the detriment of their customers. Not whether they are any worse or better than any other companies terms? IF other companies perform as badly then start a separate poll for them also; by all means. I'm really not interested in personal views on the why's and wherefores, you can all shop where you like but it doesn't negate the fact that there is an issue here, so please stick only to the facts pertinent to the vote. It is not a question of have they treated you well in the past blah de blah have you're own vote on that issue separately, it is simply,

[SIZE="3"]Play have terms and conditions, they haven't abided by them, when they do they are selective about it. Trading standards are investigating them, the OFT indicate they aware of problems, when Play are questioned about their terms they remove the ones they think affect them negatively, when they do so they are supposed to inform all clients they have done so on their homepage. Their rules not mine. Now if you are happy about the fact that this is their attitude then fine vote not to have a warning if you're not then vote for a warning or a ban on promoting them. Simple as.[/SIZE]

All this bickering and one-up-man-ship is tedious and immature and does nothing but belittle the point, debate the issues fine, but come on keep the personal affronts to a minimum.

I accept I didn't give a detailed enough explanation in the first place I'd rather assumed too much, apologies.
#36
I vote for a warning:

[CENTER]Warning !
Shopping at Play.com
Be advised that they have recently changed their Terms and Conditions.
Please make sure you read them carefully.
[/CENTER]

Potential customers can then consider reading the Ts&Cs before they authorise a payment.
.
#37
I vote for a warning
#38
Not that it makes any difference but I vote no. If people can't be bothered to read t&c's that's their own look out :)

Just to add, anybody is free to add the info to a deal if they feel like it, just use the edit button :thumbsup:
#39
Am I blind or has this feedback message been taken off the feedback message board, as it is missing from the top 10?? If so why?
#40
flamefix
Am I blind or has this feedback message been taken off the feedback message board, as it is missing from the top 10?? If so why?


It's not in FB it's in misc. Has been since I first noticed it:thinking:

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