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police and ebay help

sedd33 Avatar
5y, 10m agoPosted 5 years, 10 months ago
to sum up bought a games console on ebay and receieved all the bits apart from the machine.

opened a dispute with paypal, they got no response from the seller. seller also not replying to my emails.

paypal are ready to refund but are asking me to report the matter to the police.

rang police and they laughed saying they do not issue crime numbers its a civil matter.

went back to paypal, telling police refusing to issue crime no. paypal not budging stil demanding crn.

went back to police still refusing to log the incidence as saying we dont get involved with ebay enquiries.

this is madness- what to do now- apart from cry?
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sedd33 Avatar
5y, 10m agoPosted 5 years, 10 months ago
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#1
happened to me too... nothing you can do
6 Likes #2
It's not a civil matter... it's obtaining money by deception
it's covered by the theft act.. ask them to look it up
3 Likes #3
it's rubbish, the police do deal with ebay frauds. They do have a tendency to try and fob people off. The police guidance states: If the informant believes they are the victim of a crime then a crime report should be submitted unless there is evidence to suggest the contrary. Who is your local police force?
#4
GentleTouch
happened to me too... nothing you can do


but surely the police are obliged to issue a crn? after all its a crime- ive been ripped off
#5
The only issue could be on the description of the product on ebay, also if they sent part of the item, it could fall under civil, but looking if he or she has done it dishonestly then it would fall under the fraud, not theft act.
#6
Keep trying... maybe try the local police near the seller?
#7
Item Number ?
#8
mincemaster
it's rubbish, the police do deal with ebay frauds. They do have a tendency to try and fob people off. The police guidance states: If the informant believes they are the victim of a crime then a crime report should be submitted unless there is evidence to suggest the contrary. Who is your local police force?

west midlands- ive rang 4 times now and keep telling me its a matter for ebay fraud dept- i said yes they dealt with it and theyre happy to refund providing i report it but the police still refusing saying we dont get involved with ebay disputes

i cant even go to another station as they ask for my postcode and then refer back me to the same station
#9
Before this goes back into contacting the police, what was the ebay item number that you won?
#10
not relevant mate.

who else can i speak to if the local station are being unreasonable.... how is the station ranked? i mean is there such thing as a station manager or something?

is there a authority body where i can put a complaint?
banned#11
J_B
Keep trying... maybe try the local police near the seller?

I did that and they were amazing.

Never give up!
#12
Sound like Paypals way of getting out of it to me - when we had dealing with a fraudulent buyer they gave us so much headache! First they wanted photos of our damaged laptop, then we had to get estimates from computer repair shop at our expense and they said it wasn't good enough as it wasn't stamped (even though it had phone number and business address on it) so we had to go back and get a stamped one. It was one thing after another, no consistency just seeing what they could make us do.
After all that they said they would only refund 75% of the value, unless we send the laptop to them in USA at a cost of £75!!!

EDIT: Police didn't want to know in our case either

Edited By: Mrs.Z on Jan 26, 2011 22:07
#13
Was it advertised as Faulty ?
banned#14
sedd33
not relevant mate.who else can i speak to if the local station are being unreasonable.... how is the station ranked? i mean is there such thing as a station manager or something?is there a authority body where i can put a complaint?

http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/about-us/contact/complaints.asp
#15
Just have a gander here, then politely ask them why its a civil matter:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/fraud_act/
#16
Google Ipcc, independant police complaints commision.
#17
Our local station had a web crimes officer who looked at my issue but told me that unless you can prove that the seller intended to defraud you there is no crime committed. All the time he believes he has complied and it is a misunderstanding no-one will take any action
1 Like #18
Best thing to do is go to the stations help desk and ask to speak to the duty inspector as you want to make a formal complaint. I guarantee you will get an audience pretty quick, if that fails say you want the matter referring to the IPCC, Independant Police Complaints Commission.
banned#19
mosskeeto
Our local station had a web crimes officer who looked at my issue but told me that unless you can prove that the seller intended to defraud you there is no crime committed. All the time he believes he has complied and it is a misunderstanding no-one will take any action


thats wrong too - its up the police to prove he did. You make the complaint, the police investigate, you don't have to prove anything.

OP ask to speak to an inspector.
1 Like #20
tinks404
Best thing to do is go to the stations help desk and ask to speak to the duty inspector as you want to make a formal complaint. I guarantee you will get an audience pretty quick, if that fails say you want the matter referring to the IPCC, Independant Police Complaints Commission.


thanks, thats exactly the guidance i was looking for
#21
Mosskeeto, the web crimes officer is talking crap. They establish intention on interview, its not up to an aggrieved party to establish.

The product number is relevant as it may state what was part of the agreement at the time of contract. But yeah nip into police station and ask to speak to an inspector and make a policy complaint.
#22
Dont know why paypal want a crime number, did you open a normal "significantly not as described".

They should have just asked you to return it tracked for a refund of item price and original postage.
#23
gavjbrown
Dont know why paypal want a crime number, did you open a normal "significantly not as described".They should have just asked you to return it tracked for a refund of item price and original postage.


prob is they cant get any response from the seller and by the looks of things other buyers have also put in paypal claims
1 Like #24
Can't understand why the Police don't do anything as many Police websites I have looked at state more or less the following
If you do find yourself a victim of internet auction fraud, report the fraudulent transaction to the internet auction site itself. You should then contact your local police office.


This was actually taken from Strathclyde
#25
Jumpingphil
sedd33
gavjbrown
Dont know why paypal want a crime number, did you open a normal "significantly not as described".They should have just asked you to return it tracked for a refund of item price and original postage.



prob is they cant get any response from the seller and by the looks of things other buyers have also put in paypal claims


Why on earth didn't you look at this before you bid? http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn219/jumpingphil/RollEyes.gif
Maybe he had good feedback until Today :-/
#26
simplyjimbo
Can't understand why the Police don't do anything as many Police websites I have looked at state more or less the following
If you do find yourself a victim of internet auction fraud, report the fraudulent transaction to the internet auction site itself. You should then contact your local police office.


This was actually taken from Strathclyde
Link please ?
#27
Which station ?
#28
I sold a iphone on ebay & after the buyer paid by paypal he then contacted me to see if it was OK to collect it.I said yes it's ok to collect & so he collected that night.4 weeks later paypal wanted a full refund as the guy who bought it of me used a stolen credit card & then he opened a ebay account & paypal account with this stolen card.To cut a long story short the guy scammed myself & 8 others all for items worth over £200 each & paypal wanted us all to pay them back.
I contacted the Police & they said that because Paypal & also the Credit card company have not reported a crime then they could not get involved.
I then contacted paypal (by phone) again & told them this & I also said I needed to contact the guy who had his card stolen so he could report it as a crime.Paypal said they could not give me the guys details or the Credit card company's details,But paypal said they still wanted me to refund them the £207 LOL

I closed my paypal account & told them I would love a day in court with them & since then I have heard nothing from paypal.

Also forgot to mention that the scammers Reg plate was taken & he was caught by the police but was released due to the Credit card company & paypal not reporting the crime.
#30
no chance police wont get involved its your word against the sellers....hence civil matter


police have more important stuff to do
#31
It is a fraud and should be crimed. West mids police have no such policy and they are all just trying to keep crime figures down. Ask to speak initially to the sergeant (all contact centres should have one on every shift) if this is not possible speak to an inspector.
Just wondering which area you have contacted
#32
Similar thing happened to me once,except in reverse,buyer made false complaints about item I had sent him and returned it with missing parts,

Paypal refunded the buyer as he had a tracking number to show package returned to me,they told me to get a police report to back up the condition I received it back and that there were parts missing,

I just printed out the transaction details and added a note as to condition it was received back in,went to local police station,explained the situ and all they did was put their office stamp on it,I faxed a copy of that to paypal and they accepted that as my report,and put the money back to my account and told me just to dispose of the item

It worked well in my favour,item back,albeit a few missing components but full payment back in my account

Edited By: grabbit on Jan 26, 2011 23:54
#33
Did you pay off a credit/debit card through Paypal or using some money you had stored in your account already?

If you paid it by card, maybe a chargeback would be possible? Granted, Paypal won't be very happy but screw them - they're not exactly known to be the most helpful company on the internet!

Edited By: oldmanhouse on Jan 27, 2011 00:01
#34
gavjbrown
Dont know why paypal want a crime number, did you open a normal "significantly not as described".They should have just asked you to return it tracked for a refund of item price and original postage.

and what happens if a buyer (not referring to OP ) decides to open a SNAD pretending they did not recieve the full package? opens a dispute...keep what they want and paypal allow them to return the rest to the seller for a full refund?
#35
casparwhite
no chance police wont get involved its your word against the sellers....hence civil matter

Most cases the police deal with are one person's word against another. If I said I saw kiddy pr0n on your computer (relevant to your avatar me thinks), I think the Police would come and remove your computer and question you - whether it is true or false matter little until the Police have completed their investigation, and I might be charged with wasting Police time or something.

It's not a civil matter if criminal law could be applied to what has happened, and in this case it could - although I doubt the Police would make any effort to investigate the crime. Police should at least issue a crime reference number. I would keep on at them and explain that it is obtaining money by deception and theft asking if they know the law. Maybe even say you just need a crime reference number for insurance purposes and that while you would like them to investigate the matter, as far as your concerned the matter is closed once you get a crime number.

Edited By: anewman on Jan 27, 2011 02:07
1 Like #36
Police don't want to give you a CRN as they're desperate to fix their crime figures so they don't go over targets. Can't you just call the regional non emergency number and log it with them?
#37
anewman
casparwhite
no chance police wont get involved its your word against the sellers....hence civil matter

Most cases the police deal with are one person's word against another. If I said I saw kiddy pr0n on your computer (relevant to your avatar me thinks), I think the Police would come and remove your computer and question you - whether it is true or false matter little until the Police have completed their investigation, and I might be charged with wasting Police time or something.

It's not a civil matter if criminal law could be applied to what has happened, and in this case it could - although I doubt the Police would make any effort to investigate the crime. Police should at least issue a crime reference number. I would keep on at them and explain that it is obtaining money by deception and theft asking if they know the law. Maybe even say you just need a crime reference number for insurance purposes and that while you would like them to investigate the matter, as far as your concerned the matter is closed once you get a crime number.


lol i think you are mistaken, without some kind of evidence or more importntly a warrant the police arent just able to come round my place or anyone elses just on the word of some random making something up.....

are you actually being serious?

if you are, you are seriously delusional.

Edited By: casparwhite on Jan 27, 2011 06:31
1 Like #38
casparwhite
lol i think you are mistaken, without some kind of evidence or more importntly a warrant the police arent just able to come round my place or anyone elses just on the word of some random making something up.....

Suggest you tell me how exactly they catch people for certain crimes then. I suggest it is you who are delusional!

Here's a perfect example of many millions http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2879520 one person's word against another, the other person was lying, but because the Police officer mistakenly believed the other was in some sort of authority they believed them and issued a fine without even seeking any kind of evidence to back it up.

I used the kiddie pr0n example as everyone hates a pedo, and I suspect if you did say you saw stuff like that on someone's PC they would investigate. Try call up your local police station about someone you don't like and see if they cart their PC away.

A court's job is to decide whether someone is guilty, but nearly all cases reported to the police are one person's word against the other. Like when a woman accuses a man of rape. Plenty of them are found guilty of perverting the course of justice etc for making false rape claims.


Edited By: anewman on Jan 27, 2011 07:41
#39
The police do need some sort of evidence you are right but that other persons statement ( or in some cases it can just be someones word) is the evidence that is needed. As anewman stated it isn't the polices job to find out who is guilty. The police just gather evidence. Although in one word against another probably wouldn't get past cps to get to court.
In this case there may be other evidence, ie if the parcel was weighed or if someone else was present when they opened the parcel. Or if they searched the sellers house they may still have the console.
The reason they don't want to crime it is because it is a lot of work and effort for lots of people for probably 2 different forces. It would probably take up in total of 4 days of an officers time and in all honestly it is the responsibility of paypal to pay up. If paypal do pay up it will then mean that they are the victims and they won't be helpful in assisting the police as they aren't bothered about £100.
You cannot report a crime and not have it investigated.

Edited By: wookiemummy on Jan 27, 2011 09:53: Edit
#40
OP, it is a fraud, simple. Ignore casparwhite he is an aggressive idiot who insists on commenting on things he has no knowledge of.
I deal with these all the time. Each force seems to have a different policy though. try contacting the police force where he lives, they may take it on. We dont have to arrest someone, we can deal with people in other ways. Yes, we do require evidence to get home in court, as the onus of proof is beyond reasonable doubt, but you may not be the only person this has happened to and previous reprehensible behaviour can be introduced under bad character guidelines.

Hope you get it sorted, let me know if I can help any further

Edited By: ADZ1478 on Jan 27, 2011 20:19: update

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