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Refresh rate on TV's

jonny619447 Avatar
suspended5y, 11m agoPosted 5 years, 11 months ago
Hi,

How important is the refresh rate when considering which TV to buy.
Plasma's have a refresh rate of 600hz while most lcd's that I have seen only have a 50hz refresh rate.

Also is there any other important things like the contrast ratio that I should take into account when deciding which TV to buy?

Thanks for any help

Any help would be appreciative
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jonny619447 Avatar
suspended5y, 11m agoPosted 5 years, 11 months ago
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#1
I don't think the 600 Hz is a true 600 refresh rate - Some of the videophiles will fill you in I'm sure (and perhaps say something along the lines of there's no difference - I personally find 100 Hz to be a LOT better than 50 Hz, but that was down to my eyes and personal preference).

Our Panny has 600 Hz refresh rate and is a beauty. Contrast ratio isn't overly important either (just don't get one that's like 1000:1).

That should keep you going until someone with more knowledge joins the thread ;)

In the meantime, check out AVForums, there's a wealth of discussion there about the best tvs etc and settings for a new tv.
#2
Personally, I'd ignore the theory, and just go straight down to Currys and have a look with my own eyes. Numbers are marketing tools, and by nature, they are designed to be deceptive, which is why you should take as little notice of them as is possible within reason.
#3
Use your eyes and ears, the numbers are mainly marketing hype.
#4
Basically.
A 50hz picture shows 50 different images in 1 second. The USA is 60hz. Personally I preferred 50 over 100 on my old Plasma.
Anyway.. 600hz is a "subfield refresh". Basically, instead of it being 60hz (shoing 60 images per second) the TV shows 600 by refreshing each image 10 times instead of showing it once. It is meant to be smoother but I personally would not worry about it having it / not having it.
#5
I agree with 50Hz too. 100Hz and 200Hz TVs use linearly interpolated frames in between actual frames. That is, in between each of the 50 frames of the 50 Hz signal, artificial frames are generated where the positioning of objects are guessed based on the previous and next frames. This is bad for computing (especially image editing) and gaming. For watching standard definition TV, it certainly can improve fluidity of action. Some gamers insist that this improves their gaming but I have never had an explanation from them as to why they believe this to be the case.

600Hz on plasma TVs does not refer to refresh rates no matter what the manufactures or the High Street retailer say. This is the sub field drive and for each frame of the picture, the gas cells are flashed many times. Hence for a 50Hz signal, during each frame the gas cells are flashed 12 times. This means, for each second, the picture has been flashed 600 times but the frame rate is still 50 Hz. You might ask, what is the point of flashing the EXACT SAME FRAME 12 times. The answer is that flashing the image several times for each frame can reduce phosphor lag but in practive this is completely useless because gas plasma TVs have such fast response that it is pointless. The upshot is that, like others have said, TV manufacturers are condescending and treat consumers with disrespect. Why would they charge extra for LED lighting on TVs when LED is much cheaper to manufacture than CCFL lighting?

Contrast ratio is another interesting point raised by the OP. Dynamic contrast ratio is another moniker made up by the manufacturers which is NON-INDUSTRY STANDARD. The reason why it is non industry standard (such as silly names like "Full HD", "HD Compatible", etc) is that if you analyse each word, it does not make sense. Contrast ratio (rather than dynamic contrast ratio) is a standard and it is a genuine ratio of the whitest white compared to the deepest black. In other words, it is a genuine mathematical calculation.

So waht is dynamic contrast ratio? Well, that uses software to increase whites in bright scenes and dim the lighting in dark scenes. So if light is increased, does that lighten the blacks or does it keep the blacks dark? Of course, it lightens the blacks because the lighting is increased. So if the blacks do not stay dark and are lightened (hence appearing gray), this cannot be a contrast ratio! The manufacturers have lied and unsurprisingly, dynamic contrast ratios cannot be ratified by any industrial body. Going the other direction, if an image is darkened to improve blacks, the light colours are also darkened. How this increases the contrast ratio, I do not know. What the manufacturers quote is based on the assumption that increasing lighting keeps the blacks just the same (which is untrue) or decreasing the lighting keeps the white just as bright (again, untrue).

When choosing a good picture, look for even lighting and smooth transitions in colours and gray scales. Ask for a colour chart and gray scale chart demonstration and if the smoother the transitions, the better the TV (or even monitor) is for displaying colours correctly.

Edited By: ElliottC on Dec 31, 2010 10:45
#6
Just dont expect a fair comparison in DSG stores under bright lights watching on Dynamic contrast with variable input source quality.
#7
^ See?

The bottom line is to use your eyes and see what you prefer :)
#8
It is very difficult to compare TVs in store due to the poor set ups on the TVs on demo. Look at What hifi .com or Homecinema choice magazine for recommended Tvs in your price range. Please do consider contrast ratio on TVs as this will determine good black level which in turn leads to good colour rendition. However the figres qouted are very misleading and bear no relationship to actual measured figures whichHomecinema choice etc will measure in their labs for an accfurate and representattive figure. Whathfi.com have a 5 star rating system and their test reviews are available on line. they also have a forum where owners can exchjange views on TVs they have bought or are considering - you may find this very usefull and interesting
#9
Robstar63
It is very difficult to compare TVs in store due to the poor set ups on the TVs on demo. Look at What hifi .com or Homecinema choice magazine for recommended Tvs in your price range. Please do consider contrast ratio on TVs as this will determine good black level which in turn leads to good colour rendition. However the figres qouted are very misleading and bear no relationship to actual measured figures whichHomecinema choice etc will measure in their labs for an accfurate and representattive figure. Whathfi.com have a 5 star rating system and their test reviews are available on line. they also have a forum where owners can exchjange views on TVs they have bought or are considering - you may find this very usefull and interesting


Couple of points.

Whathifi etc have hidden agendas and tend to go with specific manufacturers over properly viewing a panel. I wouldn't trust them to be honest. Any publication that depends on their revenue from advertising will always be skewed in their opinions by those who pay the bills.

The best way to view panels is to select an independent retailer who has a good set-up - such as Robert Whyte - and see the sets with comparable sources - as well as getting the advice of knowledgeable staff. You don't necessarily have to buy from them, but I'd prefer this option for the customer service, and you can negotiate the price down more often than not.
#10
moob
Robstar63
It is very difficult to compare TVs in store due to the poor set ups on the TVs on demo. Look at What hifi .com or Homecinema choice magazine for recommended Tvs in your price range. Please do consider contrast ratio on TVs as this will determine good black level which in turn leads to good colour rendition. However the figres qouted are very misleading and bear no relationship to actual measured figures whichHomecinema choice etc will measure in their labs for an accfurate and representattive figure. Whathfi.com have a 5 star rating system and their test reviews are available on line. they also have a forum where owners can exchjange views on TVs they have bought or are considering - you may find this very usefull and interesting
Couple of points.Whathifi etc have hidden agendas and tend to go with specific manufacturers over properly viewing a panel. I wouldn't trust them to be honest. Any publication that depends on their revenue from advertising will always be skewed in their opinions by those who pay the bills.The best way to view panels is to select an independent retailer who has a good set-up - such as Robert Whyte - and see the sets with comparable sources - as well as getting the advice of knowledgeable staff. You don't necessarily have to buy from them, but I'd prefer this option for the customer service, and you can negotiate the price down more often than not.

What HiFi is complete and utter rubbish. During a test of speakers, What HiFi rated one set higher than the other and is it transpired, both speakers were the same internally! Maybe the speaker casing affected sound quality but this was not mentioned during their reviews.
suspended#11
Thanks everyone that replied, So I'm taking from what ElliotC has written that refresh rate is just a 'true' figure when it is 50 hz and everything above is a 'generated' one. Didn't know that and have learned a lot from your responses.

Hopefully I will get my TV within a week once Ive been to look at a few, I'm taking that is an important thing to do when choosing as well (not just buy one from the internet that I haven't seen working)

Thanks guys and Happy new year :)
#12
jonny619447
Thanks everyone that replied, So I'm taking from what ElliotC has written that refresh rate is just a 'true' figure when it is 50 hz and everything above is a 'generated' one. Didn't know that and have learned a lot from your responses. Hopefully I will get my TV within a week once Ive been to look at a few, I'm taking that is an important thing to do when choosing as well (not just buy one from the internet that I haven't seen working)Thanks guys and Happy new year :)

It makes one thinks what nonsense the manufacturers do come up with. Misleading refresh rates, blatant lies regarding dynamic contrast and something that is also misleading are pixel response times. I see many people here respond to posts with 4 ms response is too slow or this TV is only 50Hz or contrast ratio is too low or buy LED as it is worth the extra money. If manufacturers and High Street store assistants continually feed this drivel to the unsuspecting public then it's little wonder we are continually being ripped off! We are not only missold on HDMI cables but TVs too.

Edited By: ElliottC on Dec 31, 2010 17:07
suspended#13
ElliottC
jonny619447
Thanks everyone that replied, So I'm taking from what ElliotC has written that refresh rate is just a 'true' figure when it is 50 hz and everything above is a 'generated' one. Didn't know that and have learned a lot from your responses. Hopefully I will get my TV within a week once Ive been to look at a few, I'm taking that is an important thing to do when choosing as well (not just buy one from the internet that I haven't seen working)Thanks guys and Happy new year :)


It makes one thinks what nonsense the manufacturers do come up with. Misleading refresh rates, blatant lies regarding dynamic contrast and something that is also misleading are pixel response times. I see many people here respond to posts with 4 ms response is too slow or this TV is only 50Hz or contrast ratio is too low or buy LED as it is worth the extra money. If manufacturers and High Street store assistants continually feed this drivel to the unsuspecting public then it's little wonder we are continually being ripped off! We are not only missold on HDMI cables but TVs too.


Thing is people are impressed by techno babble and things they don't understand, which brightens their eyes and causes implules sales

Anyway thanks for your time and effort to help me, happy new year :)
#14
jonny619447
ElliottC
jonny619447
Thanks everyone that replied, So I'm taking from what ElliotC has written that refresh rate is just a 'true' figure when it is 50 hz and everything above is a 'generated' one. Didn't know that and have learned a lot from your responses. Hopefully I will get my TV within a week once Ive been to look at a few, I'm taking that is an important thing to do when choosing as well (not just buy one from the internet that I haven't seen working)Thanks guys and Happy new year :)
It makes one thinks what nonsense the manufacturers do come up with. Misleading refresh rates, blatant lies regarding dynamic contrast and something that is also misleading are pixel response times. I see many people here respond to posts with 4 ms response is too slow or this TV is only 50Hz or contrast ratio is too low or buy LED as it is worth the extra money. If manufacturers and High Street store assistants continually feed this drivel to the unsuspecting public then it's little wonder we are continually being ripped off! We are not only missold on HDMI cables but TVs too.
Thing is people are impressed by techno babble and things they don't understand, which brightens their eyes and causes implules salesAnyway thanks for your time and effort to help me, happy new year :)

Indeed. And Happy New Year to you too.
1 Like #15
ElliottC
moob
Robstar63
It is very difficult to compare TVs in store due to the poor set ups on the TVs on demo. Look at What hifi .com or Homecinema choice magazine for recommended Tvs in your price range. Please do consider contrast ratio on TVs as this will determine good black level which in turn leads to good colour rendition. However the figres qouted are very misleading and bear no relationship to actual measured figures whichHomecinema choice etc will measure in their labs for an accfurate and representattive figure. Whathfi.com have a 5 star rating system and their test reviews are available on line. they also have a forum where owners can exchjange views on TVs they have bought or are considering - you may find this very usefull and interesting
Couple of points.Whathifi etc have hidden agendas and tend to go with specific manufacturers over properly viewing a panel. I wouldn't trust them to be honest. Any publication that depends on their revenue from advertising will always be skewed in their opinions by those who pay the bills.The best way to view panels is to select an independent retailer who has a good set-up - such as Robert Whyte - and see the sets with comparable sources - as well as getting the advice of knowledgeable staff. You don't necessarily have to buy from them, but I'd prefer this option for the customer service, and you can negotiate the price down more often than not.


What HiFi is complete and utter rubbish. During a test of speakers, What HiFi rated one set higher than the other and is it transpired, both speakers were the same internally! Maybe the speaker casing affected sound quality but this was not mentioned during their reviews.


Oh, you should check out their HDMI cable reviews too. There's still some online, I think. The skinny of it: Companies that advertise in What HiFi have deeper blacks and a more defined soundstage than the ones that don't.
#16
dxx
ElliottC
moob
Robstar63
It is very difficult to compare TVs in store due to the poor set ups on the TVs on demo. Look at What hifi .com or Homecinema choice magazine for recommended Tvs in your price range. Please do consider contrast ratio on TVs as this will determine good black level which in turn leads to good colour rendition. However the figres qouted are very misleading and bear no relationship to actual measured figures whichHomecinema choice etc will measure in their labs for an accfurate and representattive figure. Whathfi.com have a 5 star rating system and their test reviews are available on line. they also have a forum where owners can exchjange views on TVs they have bought or are considering - you may find this very usefull and interesting
Couple of points.Whathifi etc have hidden agendas and tend to go with specific manufacturers over properly viewing a panel. I wouldn't trust them to be honest. Any publication that depends on their revenue from advertising will always be skewed in their opinions by those who pay the bills.The best way to view panels is to select an independent retailer who has a good set-up - such as Robert Whyte - and see the sets with comparable sources - as well as getting the advice of knowledgeable staff. You don't necessarily have to buy from them, but I'd prefer this option for the customer service, and you can negotiate the price down more often than not.
What HiFi is complete and utter rubbish. During a test of speakers, What HiFi rated one set higher than the other and is it transpired, both speakers were the same internally! Maybe the speaker casing affected sound quality but this was not mentioned during their reviews.
Oh, you should check out their HDMI cable reviews too. There's still some online, I think. The skinny of it: Companies that advertise in What HiFi have deeper blacks and a more defined soundstage than the ones that don't.

Excellent reviews! I've just had a look http://www.whathifi.com/Reviews/Accessories-Reviews/HDMI-and-video-cables-Reviews/. Comments such as "sound lacking dynamic punch", "decrease in skin tones", "lack of contrast". The reviewers should be sent down for libel! It is fair enough mentioning attenuation of the signal in very poor cables but the misgivings that have been relayed gives the impression that this publication is part of the DSG group. Good grief!

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