REPORT ON IMMIGRATION (Link to paper "Denying Racism" now in post 18) - HotUKDeals
We use cookie files to improve site functionality and personalisation. By continuing to use HUKD, you accept our cookie and privacy policy.
Get the HUKD app free at Google Play

Search Error

An error occurred when searching, please try again!

Login / Sign UpSubmit

REPORT ON IMMIGRATION (Link to paper "Denying Racism" now in post 18)

Liddle ol' me Avatar
8y, 7m agoPosted 8 years, 7 months ago
A few facts and projections from the Institute for Public Policy Research's comprehensive report:

Workers from the eight eastern Eruopean countries joining the EU in 2004 are registered in every local authority in the UK although many come to the UK on a temporary or seasonal basis. According to the report, the employment rate among citizens of the new EU member states in Britain is 84% the highest of all immigrant groups and 9% higher than the UK-born average.

Very few claim state benefits. Of those registering for national insurance numbers since 2004, only 2.4% did so to claim benefits.

Immigrants from the new EU countries work on average 46 hours per week, four hours longer per week than UK-born workers.

Fewer people from the new EU states will come to the UK in the coming months and years, and more of those currently here will return home.

Half of the 1 million eastern Europeans who have come to Britain since 2004 have already gone home. This was due to:

-- Economic development in the new EU countries since 2004

-- Immigrants heading to other EU countries instead of Britain as those countries loosen their immigration restrictions

-- Falling birth rates in post-enlargement countries in the 1980s, which means there is a shrinking of the pool of likely migrants

-- Devaluation of the pound (by about 1/4 against the Polish zloty since 2004), which narrows the gap between earnings in Britain and Poland.

The IPPR notes that "those migrants that remain in the long term are likely to be the best qualified and most aspirational. [...] those who are likely to stay in the UK will move up the career ladder. As they find their feet and improve their English, more Poles will want to pursue their professions than pluck poultry in the future."
Liddle ol' me Avatar
8y, 7m agoPosted 8 years, 7 months ago
Options

All Comments

(42) Jump to unreadPost a comment
Comments/page:
Page:
banned#1
woop woop yeah go Poland!
#2
lies damn lies and statistics!!! lol

where the report states not claiming benefits they didnt state the number of euro immigrants claiming family allowance for 1000s of children(real or imaginary) left in their own country - ££billions!!!! no birth certificate needed ...... the whole british system is being abused as (we) make it so easy for them ... if we speak out we are called racist - rant over - go vote in your local elections tomorrow please... rant over
#3
holly100
lies damn lies and statistics!!! lol

where the report states not claiming benefits they didnt state the number of euro immigrants claiming family allowance for 1000s of children(real or imaginary) left in their own country - ££billions!!!! no birth certificate needed ...... the whole british system is being abused as (we) make it so easy for them ... if we speak out we are called racist - rant over - go vote in your local elections tomorrow please... rant over


erm...some stats of your own please holly100. Ranting is well and good, but the point of the post is to try and get some informed discussion. And the point of such reports is an attempt to get facts and figures out there to fight misperceptions and combat scare-mongering. If you'd like to contribute to the latter, then that's ok, that's what your comments do. If you'd like to present some evidence for your own opinions, then that would be even better. And throwing the "you'll call me a racist" card and "all stats are lies" is - I'm guessing until you prove otherwise - just a smokescreen for your own lack of knowledge on the subject. But I'd love to be proved wrong! :thumbsup:

EDIT: Did you actually read this part? Very few claim state benefits. Of those registering for national insurance numbers since 2004, only 2.4% did so to claim benefits. (and btw, this is not a government report but uses publically available figures that even The BNP can access if they so wish!).
#4
There are some eastern europeans who abuse the system and claim for children who live overseas, but the figure for such claims goes into the millions. While of course that doesn't make it ok, to say the figure goes into billions is absolutely ridiculous and sounds like typical The Sun propaganda.
#5
Great post Liddle ol' me:thumbsup:

However,such facts will never get in the way of 'great' Daily Mail journalism!!;-)
#6
thom_yorke
There are some eastern europeans who abuse the system and claim for children who live overseas, but the figure for such claims goes into the millions. While of course that doesn't make it ok, to say the figure goes into billions is absolutely ridiculous and sounds like typical The Sun propaganda.


Right. :thumbsup: But even The Sun doesn't go as far as that. More like BNP members after several pints. The interesting stat is the one that shows the percentage of workers who even claim benefits. It's a paltry figure compared with British nationals. In fact, it's a great bit of hard evidence to suggest what informed commentators know to be the case - that Polish and other immigrants are contributing much more to the economy than they are taking out. (And that I personally see 'in action' all around me in this country). If British workers contributed at the same levels, it would be even better.
#7
muckypup
Great post Liddle ol' me:thumbsup:

However,such facts will never get in the way of 'great' Daily Mail journalism!!;-)


Thanks. :thumbsup: very true, I know. But apathy has never been a strong point of mine. I'll keep resisting those Daily Hate readers until I die :-D
#8
Nobody else have anything to say on this one? Too risky? Too boring?!
#9
thom_yorke
There are some eastern europeans who abuse the system and claim for children who live overseas, but the figure for such claims goes into the millions. .


ive heard and see this in action in the UK, i know some people who earn more on child benefits than i do working full time and paying taxes. with the increasing cost of living (petrol, food, mortgages), it doesnt justify working in the UK. To be honest, they are abusing the system but its not entirely their fault, they only do it because they can. its really up to the UK government to close down these loop holes.

Just to clarify, I have no prejudice against eastern europeans etc.... and quite a few of my friends are eastern european. I just think that the UK govt is in desparate need of a reform.
#10
This reminds of something I did a few years back.

I work in market/social research as an interviewer and we had a job where we conducted interviews with Asylum seekers,covering topics such as(if my memory serves me correctly) availability to education,housing and how accepted they felt in this country.....there was more to it than that but you get the idea.

Now,what really surprised me was how little these people had to survive on...at the time it was £37 per week.....so all this reporting of asylum seekers living in a lap of luxury did not seem to ring true.Also,because they are seeking asylum they are not allowed to work even if they wanted to and all that I spoke to most certainly did(want to worh,that is).We asked about their skills and education and many were quite educated or had practical skills that could be utilised,which to my mind,seemed a waste.

One young lady particularly sticks in my mind,she was from Zimbabwe and had a degree in computer science,she touched very briefly on why she was over here and did not need to go into any details.......as a woman you can see it in their eyes.

Yes they had a roof over their heads,not a roof that you or I would like to live in might I add.
I do not deny that there are some economic migrants who wish to make the most of our system,but to tar all with the same brush comes down to ignorance(imo)

Sort of makes you less quick to judge.
#11
amansk
ive heard and see this in action in the UK, i know some people who earn more on child benefits than i do working full time and paying taxes. with the increasing cost of living (petrol, food, mortgages), it doesnt justify working in the UK.


Are you talking about Brits or Poles here? I know a lot of Brits on benefits (I don't know how much they get though). I know several Poles in Lancaster and they all work. But anyway, the few people that you and I 'know' are unlikely to be representative of the population as a whole. Although the many Poles that I have met working in service positions (hotels, restaurants) have given me a better impression than the average British worker in the same position.

amansk
To be honest, they are abusing the system but its not entirely their fault, they only do it because they can. its really up to the UK government to close down these loop holes. .


Again, are you talking about the very small % of Poles who claim benefits or the proportionally much larger percntage of Brits who claim benefits..? I quote again: Of those registering for national insurance numbers since 2004, only 2.4% did so to claim benefits.

amansk
Just to clarify, I have no prejudice against eastern europeans etc.... and quite a few of my friends are eastern european. I just think that the UK govt is in desparate need of a reform.


No need to a clarify lack of prejudice. In fact, research suggests a common strategy of people with prejudices is to refute them in this way. The "I have black/gay friends" ploy is also a common way to try and offset prejudiced discourse. There is a linguist called Teun A. van Dijk who has done a lot of research in this very specific area. You can find some of it on his website http://www.discourses.org/
#12
Do you have any statistics for crimes committed by immigrants?
#13
I work for immigration and UK citizens are more abusive of our good systems (trust me, they are good systems compared to USA) than the majority of immigrants. The main criminals are the reps who bring them over here and the employers and pimps who take advantage of these workers. If it wasn't for a lot of these people then the UK wouldn't be as well off, we wouldn't have the doctors, the medical care and housing (we'd have less and it'd be worse), food would be more expensive, your taxi taking your sorry drunk ass home at night wouldn't be there. We are not actually getting enough immigration into the UK to compete with the rest of the europe - never mind the world.
#14
donnydude
Do you have any statistics for crimes committed by immigrants?


Yep, check here. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/
#15
muckypup
we conducted interviews with Asylum seekers, [..] all this reporting of asylum seekers living in a lap of luxury did not seem to ring true. [...] to tar all with the same brush comes down to ignorance(imo) Sort of makes you less quick to judge.


Yes, being educated on an issue usually does. It's not much of a surprise that educators/researchers generally hold more tolerant views than other members of society... Thanks for your input. Great to get lots of working examples from different domains. :thumbsup:
#16
geeadamg
I work for immigration and UK citizens are more abusive of our good systems (trust me, they are good systems compared to USA) than the majority of immigrants. The main criminals are the reps who bring them over here and the employers and pimps who take advantage of these workers. If it wasn't for a lot of these people then the UK wouldn't be as well off, we wouldn't have the doctors, the medical care and housing (we'd have less and it'd be worse), food would be more expensive, your taxi taking your sorry drunk ass home at night wouldn't be there. We are not actually getting enough immigration into the UK to compete with the rest of the europe - never mind the world.


Thanks also for this. Very good to hear such healthy views from someone in your position. But again, it doesn't surprise me. With knowledge comes understanding. :)
#17
Btw, this is a great paper that looks at racism - http://www.discourses.org/OldArticles/Denying%20racism%20-%20Elite%20discourse%20and%20racism.pdf - it also talks about discourse on immigration. I'd urge anyone interested in how racism is written into the ways we think and speak to give it a read. The paper also includes extracts from real speech that show how racism works. You'll no doubt recognise them. Some have even been used on this thread...

The abstract is below.

Within a larger research framework that studies the ways white people
speak and write about minorities, this chapter examines one major strategy
in such discourse, the denial of racism. The prototype of such denials
is the well-known disclaimer: 'I have nothing against blacks, but...'
Discourse plays a prominent role in the reproduction of racism. It
expresses, persuasively conveys and legitimates ethnic or racial stereo-
types and prejudices among white group members, and may thus form
or confirm the social cognitions of other whites. This is particularly true
for various forms of elite discourse, since the elites control or have pref-
erential access to the major means of public communication, e.g.
through political, media, educational, scholarly or corporate discourse.
Without alternative sources of information or opinion formation, the
white public at large may have few resources for resistance against such
prevailing messages that preformulate the ethnic consensus.
#18
It has been clear right from the start that migrant workers from the EEU were likely to be of economic benefit to the UK and all the evidence points to that having been the case.
However there has been ineptitude on the part of government agencies in planning to provide for the needs of migrants who are likely to have babies in the UK and school-age children.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7215624.stm
A GP says:
"
If you're going to provide responsible care for all the population - the indigenous as well as the newcomers - then we will have to stop and think about what we can and can't afford."

There seems to have been no planning in the NHS and in education and little thought as to how new families were to be accommodated. It is to the great credit of EEU migrants that they have worked hard and earned their wages under often difficult conditions. The poor government performance, however, has meant that immigrants often end up in clusters in deprived areas. This gives ammunition to organisations such as migration watch, although, to be fair, they mainly comment adversely on other migration groups, especially from Pakistan and Bangla-Desh. http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/Briefingpapers/migration_trends/effect_of_immigration_onthe_integration_communities_britain.asp
They say:
The very high rates of immigration in recent years are creating areas in which children with two UK born parents are in a minority. This poses serious difficulties for effective integration as there will increasingly be no core culture with which to integrate.
#19
The quote is interesting chesso "The very high rates of immigration in recent years are creating areas in which children with two UK born parents are in a minority. This poses serious difficulties for effective integration as there will increasingly be no core culture with which to integrate."

Our two children have one parent who is not UK born and they are very well integrated into the community here. Must be an exception, eh? :roll:
#20
Liddle ol' me

Our two children have one parent who is not UK born and they are very well integrated into the community here. Must be an exception, eh? :roll:

Irish isn't different enough!!;-)

The problem that can be created in the wrong, IMO, political atmospjhere is that there is a 'core culture' rather than a dynamic evolution and that that culture is superior and must be maintained. I find Gordon Brown's emphasis on Britishness worrying for that reason although his intention is clearly to deflect anti-Scottish sentiment as a prime minister - which I am sure that Cameron will play on at the next general election.
#21
chesso
Irish isn't different enough!!;-).


Actually, I wasn't counting myself as technically I'm British - born in N Ire. My wife is Japanese though, so I think that does count!

chesso
The problem that can be created in the wrong, IMO, political atmospjhere is that there is a 'core culture' rather than a dynamic evolution and that that culture is superior and must be maintained. I find Gordon Brown's emphasis on Britishness worrying for that reason although his intention is clearly to deflect anti-Scottish sentiment as a prime minister - which I am sure that Cameron will play on at the next general election.


Totally agree on this one. Any form of manufactured nationalism is dangerous. The emphasis should reflect reality and focus on multiculturalism, integration (on both sides) and building/strengthening local communities.
#22
Actually, I wasn't counting myself as technically I'm British - born in N Ire. My wife is Japanese though, so I think that does count!

I think I may have known that!!

Totally agree on this one. Any form of manufactured nationalism is dangerous. The emphasis should reflect reality and focus on multiculturalism, integration (on both sides) and building/strengthening local communities.

Integration is the key. Together we stand ....
#23
Last chance to flush out the racists!
#24
Integration is the key. Unfortunately some people seem intent on maintaining a divide. It reminds me of a Talksport discussion on immigration not long ago. A caller had the audacity to state immmigrants are stealing this and that, and then even said they're stealing our carp (as in the fish!!). I don't know where they get it from.
#25
Liddle ol' me
Are you talking about Brits or Poles here? I know a lot of Brits on benefits (I don't know how much they get though). I know several Poles in Lancaster and they all work. But anyway, the few people that you and I 'know' are unlikely to be representative of the population as a whole. Although the many Poles that I have met working in service positions (hotels, restaurants) have given me a better impression than the average British worker in the same position.



Again, are you talking about the very small % of Poles who claim benefits or the proportionally much larger percntage of Brits who claim benefits..? I quote again: Of those registering for national insurance numbers since 2004, only 2.4% did so to claim benefits.



No need to a clarify lack of prejudice. In fact, research suggests a common strategy of people with prejudices is to refute them in this way. The "I have black/gay friends" ploy is also a common way to try and offset prejudiced discourse. There is a linguist called Teun A. van Dijk who has done a lot of research in this very specific area. You can find some of it on his website http://www.discourses.org/


hi, yes, i was talking about general population inc brits and poles, not just poles........ although i can see why it would come accross as me slating off the europeans. I completely agree with your point as to the people you have met in service positions, I too believe that they give a better impression than the brits.

Can you clarify your last bit about lack of prejudice, are you saying that research shows I am being prejudiced by saying I'm not or am I just reading this the wrong way. Based on my understanding of this, you are saying I am.... which I would love to know how you came to that conclusion..... please explain.
#26
Could someone explain why this has been spammed and marked expired?

Will respond to above posts straight after this.
#27
amansk
Just to clarify, I have no prejudice against eastern europeans etc.... and quite a few of my friends are eastern european. I just think that the UK govt is in desparate need of a reform.


Liddle ol' me
No need to a clarify lack of prejudice. In fact, research suggests a common strategy of people with prejudices is to refute them in this way. The "I have black/gay friends" ploy is also a common way to try and offset prejudiced discourse. There is a linguist called Teun A. van Dijk who has done a lot of research in this very specific area. You can find some of it on his website http://www.discourses.org/


amansk
Can you clarify your last bit about lack of prejudice, are you saying that research shows I am being prejudiced by saying I'm not or am I just reading this the wrong way. Based on my understanding of this, you are saying I am.... which I would love to know how you came to that conclusion..... please explain.


amansk, no I wasn't making a claim that you were being racist. (But reading through it again I can see that I was sloppy in my presentation and might have given that impression :oops:). I was actually just trying to bring up the point about the linguistic strategies people use to 'mask' racist comments/views. You'll aso see if you read TAvD's work (see link) that it is something very different that actual racist racists use - strategies like I have black friends but...
#28
seem to have lost something on the end of my post #28. It is:

@ amansk: So thanks for making me clarify that point. I think it's good to push each other on issues like this; it's the best way to get key points clarified and prevent misunderstandings. :thumbsup: Perhaps it was such misunderstandings that forced people to spam the thread??
[admin]#29
unexpired now..
#30
Thanks j-b :thumbsup:
#31
Liddle ol' me
seem to have lost something on the end of my post #28. It is:

@ amansk: So thanks for making me clarify that point. I think it's good to push each other on issues like this; it's the best way to get key points clarified and prevent misunderstandings. :thumbsup: Perhaps it was such misunderstandings that forced people to spam the thread??


Hi Liddle,
No problems, I wanted clarification as I didnt want to come accross as racist. I did go onto the website yesterday to investigate what you were meaning but perhaps due to a lack of understanding, I saw your comments the wrong way (english isnt my first language by the way ;))
Thank you for your clarification.
I did notice the thread was spammed, couldn't understand why though..... Could this explain the lack of responses to this thread?
#32
amansk
Hi Liddle,
No problems, I wanted clarification as I didnt want to come accross as racist. I did go onto the website yesterday to investigate what you were meaning but perhaps due to a lack of understanding, I saw your comments the wrong way (english isnt my first language by the way ;))
Thank you for your clarification.
I did notice the thread was spammed, couldn't understand why though..... Could this explain the lack of responses to this thread?


To be fair, there was probably a bit of misunderstanding on both sides. I also wasn't sure how to take your initial post and used my response as a way of drawing out a clarification too. In a way, I suppose I was also hoping to draw others into the debate, partly because I think these kinds of discussions are really important. It's such a pity that it seems to difficult to engage people on this subject. I think part of the problem is that many people's views have been fossilised on the subject and they might be unwilling to have them challenged. It's also one of those subjects that has become part of people's 'common sense', and as such they feel that it is a matter of opinion rather than a subject that should be based on facts and reasoning. I also suspect many people are aware that many of the attitudes they hold are unreasonable and based on little more than fear and prejududice. Because of this, it is easier for them to avoid the complexities of the issues. And much easier to just discuss with people they know hold the same 'common sense' views. Hatred is fostered by such conspiatorial silence.

But then again, people might just find the subject boring. I mean it's not as if it's discussed much in the popular media, eh? :whistling:

btw, your English is great. Wouldn't have guessed you are speaking it as a 2nd lang.
#33
I feel bad for not inputting now. I didn't really know what to say though, was the point of your thread to gather other peoples views on immigration? I have always suspected that the amount of immigrants claiming benefits will be a lot less (percentagewise {is that a word, im sure you know what i mean though}) than British people. I read not long a go that county durham had the highest rate of incapacity benefits in the UK, I personally know more people claiming these fraudulently than those who are actually entitled.

I think being brought up were i was from hard-wired that immigrants were horrible creatures that came into the country in an attempt to bleed our country dry. Obviously now that i have grown up i realise that this is not the case, its a shame that a lot of people simply don't grow up.
#34
I live in a village where n Eastern european was murdered by some fellow eastern europeans (who she knew on a personal level) because they saw how much money she had saved up in her bank. we have a high ratio of eastern europenas in our are, probably due to low housing costs and lack of decent employment opportunities (Lots of low skill\low wage indutries). A week or two ago I got the bus into town from work as I had to get the train home and the three others at the bus stop in Aberdeen with me were Eastern Europeans finishing work, and the bus driver was also eastern european. Granted there are language barriers there, partially due to lack of knowledge of the local area, and the local dialects\accents - dont think they were taught english in a scottish accent! but they were ALL working. The British who have kids of school age who dont even attempt to work but claim benefits frustrate me. the ones that claim incapacity benefit but do casher jobs cos they are fit to work frustrate me. The loopholes in the systems frustrate me. The uneducated people who grew up in a family who lived on benefits and never attempt to better themselves and give up too easily frustrate me. But at the end of the day its the UK system thats at fault for allowing this to happen.

My only concerns are that with the eastern europeans taking up all the unskilled work, it becomes increasingly difficult for youngesters and mums who's kids are of school age to get jobs because they are already taken. I hope the numbers coming here decrease or their skill levels go up so that these unskilled\semi skilled vacancies are available in the future or I can see locals being stuck in the vicious circle of not being able to get a job but not being able to relocate to where the work is beacuse there is no affordable housing because they have been snapped up by immigrants. When I split with my husband with my two daughters and was going to be homeless, I was told that they would help me find a B&B but because i worked I would get no help with the B&B costs or for storing any furniture or personal effects I had, and was told with the shortage of houses in the area due to immigrants and councils selling off too much stick, that my best bet would be to go into private rental.

Also some employers are threatening staff. My stepdad works for a local building firm and the staff there have been told that if they dont work shifts\ overtinme etc that the bosses dont care as they will easily find a pole etc who can step into their shoes, will do all the overtime and shifts without complaint and will work for less money too.

Two rumours I heard which sound rubbish to me, and something I wouldnt be impressed with so would like to know the answers to so I can help stand up for the Eastern Europeans are below - can anyone clarify that these are rubbish:

1) Employers receive a subsidy or some sort of incentive from the Government to employ Eastern europeans and\or immigrants

2) Eastern europeans get passes for discounted bus fares

3) Eastern europeans who work offshore claim their tax back as many live in their own countries and fly home once they have done their rotation? Actually may be some merit in this as our UK workers do it when they live in other countries and same with those who work abroad...

I just wish the rest of Europe was as hard working as our newer EEC counterparts...maybe once they have been under EEC rule (Or whichever body it is - bit out of date with all that), then they too will have people who use the system to the best effect like everywhere else has!
#35
guerilla
I feel bad for not inputting now. I didn't really know what to say though, was the point of your thread to gather other peoples views on immigration? I have always suspected that the amount of immigrants claiming benefits will be a lot less (percentagewise {is that a word, im sure you know what i mean though}) than British people. I read not long a go that county durham had the highest rate of incapacity benefits in the UK, I personally know more people claiming these fraudulently than those who are actually entitled.

I think being brought up were i was from hard-wired that immigrants were horrible creatures that came into the country in an attempt to bleed our country dry. Obviously now that i have grown up i realise that this is not the case, its a shame that a lot of people simply don't grow up.


Yeah, I suppose the point of the thread was to make a point and to challenge those commonly-held views you mention. I feel like teasing them out mainly because I've read quite a few of these kind of viewpoints on here. Not specifically about immigrants but ideas coming from what I view as the same mindset - the flag-waving type, etc. There were several comments of this type that I objected/responded to recently, so I thought it was a good idea to raise these kind of issues on a thread. There is a lot of loose talk on forums - just like everywhere else - and I've assigned myself the role of picking up on some of it. Probably not a great way to make friends, but something I feel is worthwhile. Maybe I was born to be a pain in the ass ;-)

Your comment about being "hard-wired" is a really useful one. That's exactly it. We are conditioned to think in certain ways about things that allow us to avoid responsibity for our words. But words can affect change, and I suppose I'm trying to affect change in a small way with mine. Now that I've said that, I more than ever want to get an avatar with a pen and the words "I'll dig with it" across it. Know of a quick and easy way to design one?? :)
#36
Hey, what a great post by nikkiandmidgets - lots of concrete examples of why people feel strongly about the immigration issue - and put forward in a very balanced way by nikki :thumbsup: I'm going to have to sign off now for a while, but look forward to hearing replies to her questions and giving my own later. Thanks nikki - hope the midgets are fine!
1 Like #37
Now that I've said that, I more than ever want to get an avatar with a pen and the words "I'll dig with it" across it. Know of a quick and easy way to design one??

Ask hottoshop? Or this?
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii78/chesso_photos/pen3.jpg

Thank you nikkiandmidgets for your interesting input. I am of the opinion but may be wrong that immigrants have passes only in the same way as long-term residents. I do not think that employers can be subsidised like that.
I thnik that you are in exactly the situation where rumour and first hand knowledge would make prejudice a very easy stance to take and I admire your point of view.
#38
chesso
Thank you nikkiandmidgets for your interesting input. I am of the opinion but may be wrong that immigrants have passes only in the same way as long-term residents. I do not think that employers can be subsidised like that.
I thnik that you are in exactly the situation where rumour and first hand knowledge would make prejudice a very easy stance to take and I admire your point of view.


Yes, that's why I like the post so much. Someone who is willing to take the things being said 'on the ground' and put forward to be answered. Many would just use them as ammunition.

Thanks for the avatar chesso - that will do nicely! :thumbsup::-D
#39
I find it quite interesting that this thread has not been invaded by posts from the viewpoint of how damaging immigration is to our country,by that I mean those that concur with the,what seems,widely held opinion of the popular press.

Had the thread been about an immigrant claiming benefits etc etc we would be on about page 10 by now with a lot more contributors to the discussion.;-)
#40
muckypup
I find it quite interesting that this thread has not been invaded by posts from the viewpoint of how damaging immigration is to our country,by that I mean those that concur with the,what seems,widely held opinion of the popular press.

Had the thread been about an immigrant claiming benefits etc etc we would be on about page 10 by now with a lot more contributors to the discussion.;-)


a lot more posts but a lot less IQ points i feel

Post a Comment

You don't need an account to leave a comment. Just enter your email address. We'll keep it private.

...OR log in with your social account

...OR comment using your social account

Thanks for your comment! Keep it up!
We just need to have a quick look and it will be live soon.
The community is happy to hear your opinion! Keep contributing!