Riot: When are we all having a riot against the petrol/diesel pice hike - HotUKDeals
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Riot: When are we all having a riot against the petrol/diesel pice hike

saayinla Avatar
8y, 6m agoPosted 8 years, 6 months ago
The media made it know that much of the increase in fuel prices is due to market speculators.
And it is already predicted in the media that prices will reach 120p per ltr within weeks, just to prepare us for the rise in price so that when it finally comes we wouldn't flinch.

How long do we continue like this?

Fishermen in france staged a riot due to increase in petrol prices from 32p to 55p.

Alas , perol prices in my area now is 115.9/116.9 and counting.

Where do we go from here?
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saayinla Avatar
8y, 6m agoPosted 8 years, 6 months ago
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#1
saayinla
Where do we go from here?


nowhere mate i cant afford the petrol
#2
lol Im unsure if the majority of the public are as passionate as french fishermen. Most are too aparthetic to do anything, knowing that after over a decade of labour, nothing will get done anyway.

I think truckers will lead the way though, blockcading central london would do the trick.
#3
Since when was rioting deemed a good idea? Do we really wish to be like the French? :thinking:
#4
I had to pay 127p a ltr for diesel yesterday just above inverness what a rip off :x:x:x
#5
Its going to be part of our policy in the HUKD Political Party we want to set up to overthrow labour!!!
#6
As far as petrol is concerned, the trick is to stop buying it altogether.
Petrol is a waste product, it is not produced. It is one of the very first run offs from the refining process. The oil companies make their money from the high end distillates, so the petrol is there regardless. It only has one use, the ic engine. The oil companies cannot dump it, they cannot store it, or burn it off. We have to use it in our cars, there is no alternative. If we refuse to buy it, ultimately the oil companies would have to give it away, in order to produce the money making products from their crude.

We are our own worst enemies. We pay whatever companies ask, instead of simply saying NO.
#7
I think you misunderstand the riot for one. A protest is all well and good but directed at whom? The oil companies, OPEC, the limit of oil that we have available, other countries for using oil?
#8
KDH001
As far as petrol is concerned, the trick is to stop buying it altogether.
Petrol is a waste product, it is not produced. It is one of the very first run offs from the refining process. The oil companies make their money from the high end distillates, so the petrol is there regardless. It only has one use, the ic engine. The oil companies cannot dump it, they cannot store it, or burn it off. We have to use it in our cars, there is no alternative. If we refuse to buy it, ultimately the oil companies would have to give it away, in order to produce the money making products from their crude.

We are our own worst enemies. We pay whatever companies ask, instead of simply saying NO.


Don't know who told you that, but it's wrong. It's a prime HC, hence why it costs so much compared to most other HCs, because it is used for so many things. There are no "waste products" in the process, not since the 70s.
#9
pghstochaj
Don't know who told you that, but it's wrong. It's a prime HC, hence why it costs so much compared to most other HCs, because it is used for so many things. There are no "waste products" in the process, not since the 70s.


I used to work in the industry, and it is not wrong at all.
#10
It is £1.30 a litre for petrol where i live already and £1.50 a litre for diesel
#11
Petrol is about the 3rd run off in the distilaation process. It has no uses beyond the car engine.
In order to get to the money making products for lubes, plastics, oaps you name it, petrol will be produced regardless. Just what are the oil companies going to do with it if we do not put it in our cars.
?
#12
Why do we not keep all the oil that is produced in Scotland, instead of exporting most of it?
The problem is, that dearer petrol puts the price of everything up yet, the wages don't rise to meet it.
#13
It is wrong, I think you misunderstand. Completely. But that's up to you.

Even very long chain HCs haven't been considered wasted for a long time (HC cracking etc.), I don't believe it was ever considered a waste product.

The fact it has a major use as about every single fuel going makes it a bit clear that it's not a waste product, everything in the world would be a waste product if there was no use for it, but petrol HCs have numerous uses. Anybody that told you differently was winding you up since the uses are so obvious in life. The fact is, the mark up on petrol is lower than fine chemical feedstocks. Nothing is a waste if it has uses, and petrol and diesel HCs have masses.
banned#14
pghstochaj;2152380
Don't know who told you that, but it's wrong. It's a prime HC, hence why it costs so much compared to most other HCs, because it is used for so many things. There are no "waste products" in the process, not since the 70s.


KDH001;2152398
I used to work in the industry, and it is not wrong at all.

FIGHT!
#15
sophie***
Why do we not keep all the oil that is produced in Scotland, instead of exporting most of it?
The problem is, that dearer petrol puts the price of everything up yet, the wages don't rise to meet it.

Because the north sea is in massive decline, the equipment is tired and there's very low supplies. At a guess, if we export any, it will be very valulable chemical feedstocks, not what you and I want to burn or use.

UK was a net oil importer in the 80s, and gas a few years ago. Brent crude isn't particularly good (high sulphur content) etc. etc. Piper Alpha disaster didn't help.

Thanks to the need to import, we now have a couple of LNG import terminals online (Isle of Grain, Dragon and the other in Pembrokeshire) for gas along with the new joint venture pipeline and the need for oil imports. We low supplies, nobody wants to bother with them much now.
#16
pghstochaj
It is wrong, I think you misunderstand. Completely. But that's up to you.

Even very long chain HCs haven't been considered wasted for a long time (HC cracking etc.), I don't believe it was ever considered a waste product.

The fact it has a major use as about every single fuel going makes it a bit clear that it's not a waste product, everything in the world would be a waste product if there was no use for it, but petrol HCs have numerous uses. Anybody that told you differently was winding you up since the uses are so obvious in life. The fact is, the mark up on petrol is lower than fine chemical feedstocks. Nothing is a waste if it has uses, and petrol and diesel HCs have masses.


As long as there are idiots like you, we will have to pay high prices. The only reason it has a use is to run the car engine. Nothing else. Just the car engine. It is and always has been considered a waste product. You cannot not produce petrol. It will always come away from the process, so what do you do with it.
#17
KDH001
As long as there are idiots like you, we will have to pay high prices. The only reason it has a use is to run the car engine. Nothing else. Just the car engine. It is and always has been considered a waste product. You cannot not produce petrol. It will always come away from the process, so what do you do with it.


Idiots like me help ensure that people have the fuel to burn in their boilers, the products they have to use every day and oil for all their uses. Unfortunately, I guess it gives us an understanding that not everybody has about the processes, economics and industry.

It has never been considered a waste product, it is the most highly demanded fraction which shows that. For numerous fuels, for feedstocks etc. It is a prime light distillate (medium distillate for diesel) and to say either are "waste" in any sense is far off the mark. The refiners CHOOSE to make it, if it was a waste, they wouldn't. I can't quite get my head around what you are saying, it is honestly miles off the mark.

But believe what you want, I think it is obvious to most that it is not a waste product but a product that the industry aims to make to sell either to burn or to use.

And yes you can pick not to produce petrol, but they do, because they want to, because it is in massive demand. Otherwise it would be used for LPGs etc. The fact that there are limited uses other than to burn petrol is not a indication of it being a waste product but the high prices it demands, so people would rather use naphtha and so on. Although I am sure you would say all products of a refiner are "waste" since most have one major use....
#18
Apart from Kerosene which also comes off at the beginning the oil companies make their fortunes from various products that are retrieved from way down the distillation cycle. They make nothing from petrol, never have. It is a waste product that comes off in vast quantities in order to get to the more lucrative products. This is a fact, not open to dispute, it is how the refineries work.

If petrol had not been found to power the car engine, just what could you do with it. Nowadays too much is produced to be able to store it, they are not allowed to dump it, and burning it off would be costly. But, move it they must or the refinery closes down. We do them a big favour by burning it in our cars, becayuse that not only gets rid of it, they actually make a few pennies out of it as well. But stop using your car and see how long it takes them to squirm.
#19
By the sound of it, you must work for an oil company and the last thing you and they want is for people to realise the truth that we hold the power over the oil companies, not the other way round. Either that or the government who would lose so much revenue from the sale of petrol it would probably bankrupt the country.
#20
You are contradicting yourself, what's the point in writing about something you don't understand?

Apart from Kerosene which also comes off at the beginning the oil companies make their fortunes from various products that are retrieved from way down the distillation cycle. They make nothing from petrol, never have.


But stop using your car and see how long it takes them to squirm.


But again, for the final time, there are no waste streams from the process, petrol would be made in lower amounts (guided by the process) and used as a low price feedstock for other things. Trouble is, demand is high. For your information, naphtha is a major feedstock for a lot of processes and is lighter than 'petrol', kerosene is heavier. I honestly think this suggests you have just read wiki or similar. I also think you only understand the fractional distillation and not the process as a whole, which would show that petrol is a desired product.
#21
KDH001
By the sound of it, you must work for an oil company and the last thing you and they want is for people to realise the truth that we hold the power over the oil companies, not the other way round. Either that or the government who would lose so much revenue from the sale of petrol it would probably bankrupt the country.


Oh goodness, you don't think that people in the industry would be best placed to know how it works? Well, apparently not. But no, I work for a consultants, that is, working for numerous clients from renewable fuels through to oil/gas production. My previous job was also as a consultant, optimising processes including feed condensate and gas to FPS (Forties Pipeline System). I would suggest I am pretty well placed to comment, given my academic background.

Oil is a commodity that we need, we need for a lot of products and we need it to burn and lubricate. A refiner tries hard to product light and medium distillates such as naphtha, petrol, kerosense, diesel, as these are most highly demanded. This is not just control of the fractional distillation but upstream processes to guide as such. To say it is a waste product when it is most highly demanded is wrong, sorry if you don't like that.

Crude oil price rises are why fuel is so expensive, nearly hitting $130/bbl for the NY crude last week, Brent following closely. We have no hope of cheaper fuel since the supplies are low, demand is high and we have to use more costly methods on the remaining supplies.
#22
handbags calm down and have a heated discussion hehe
#23
pghstochaj
Oh goodness, you don't think that people in the industry would be best placed to know how it works? Well, apparently not. But no, I work for a consultants, that is, working for numerous clients from renewable fuels through to oil/gas production. My previous job was also as a consultant, optimising processes including feed condensate and gas to FPS (Forties Pipeline System). I would suggest I am pretty well placed to comment, given my academic background.

Oil is a commodity that we need, we need for a lot of products and we need it to burn and lubricate. A refiner tries hard to product light and medium distillates such as naphtha, petrol, kerosense, diesel, as these are most highly demanded. This is not just control of the fractional distillation but upstream processes to guide as such. To say it is a waste product when it is most highly demanded is wrong, sorry if you don't like that.

Crude oil price rises are why fuel is so expensive, nearly hitting $130/bbl for the NY crude last week, Brent following closely. We have no hope of cheaper fuel since the supplies are low, demand is high and we have to use more costly methods on the remaining supplies.


Thats the whole point!!

I have spent over 25 years in the industry. That is how I know. You cannot stop petrol from being produced, it comes off from the process regardless of whethter or not you want it. There is no way to reduce the output of petrol without reducing the output of everything else. The company wants to make money from soaps, plastics all the expensive items we use. To get that petrol is produced. Not deliberately, it comes out of the towers at the beginning of the process. They have to do something with it, we oblige them by using it in the car. If we didn't what will they do with the petrol. They can't not produce it, it comes off regardless, no way to stop it.
#24
pinkkitty2007
It is £1.30 a litre for petrol where i live already and £1.50 a litre for diesel


wow! where are you?
banned#25
Mrs.Z;2152720
wow! where are you?

yeah....where are you thats ridiculous

111.9 Petrol my way
#26
109.9p at our Sainsbury's, at least it was first thing this morning.
banned#27
Gone up 3p in 2 days
#28
KDH001
Thats the whole point!!

I have spent over 25 years in the industry. That is how I know. You cannot stop petrol from being produced, it comes off from the process regardless of whethter or not you want it. There is no way to reduce the output of petrol without reducing the output of everything else. The company wants to make money from soaps, plastics all the expensive items we use. To get that petrol is produced. Not deliberately, it comes out of the towers at the beginning of the process. They have to do something with it, we oblige them by using it in the car. If we didn't what will they do with the petrol. They can't not produce it, it comes off regardless, no way to stop it.


Finally:
1) Petrol is selected to be made, inadvertently some would be made regardless, but processes available mean it is made by choice in the amounts it is.
2) It does not come out at the beginning of the process.
3) If we didn't burn the minimum amount made, it would be used as a feedstock like naphtha and kerosene, instead we burn it and push the price up, that's the only reason that petrol is not used as a feedstock as much as naphtha.
4) Refiners do not generally make money from making plastics etc. as you say, they sell the feedstocks to manufacturers. They could use petrol fractions or diesel if the prices meant it was feasible.
5) Soaps are not made generally from crude oil, the saponification process uses other fats from plant and animal sources. Detergents are heavily replacing soaps anyway, not that it matters....! For somebody working 25 years in the industry, that's a pretty obvious error.
6) Like most chemical processes, individual product production can be controlled and is controlled, hence why petrol is produced as a desired product.

But I give up, I think people reading this would know petrol is a prime HC product, I just couldn't let you say it was waste and not be challenged.
banned 1 Like #29
115.9 here
125.9 diesel
#30
thesaint;2152271
Since when was rioting deemed a good idea? Do we really wish to be like the French? :thinking:


Yes of course, much better to be the classy English......
http://www.yusef.co.uk/chav.JPG
banned#31
Max Cady;2152819
Yes of course, much better to be the classy English......
http://www.yusef.co.uk/chav.JPG

Which ones you?
1 Like #32
) Soaps are not made generally from crude oil, the saponification process uses other fats from plant and animal sources. Detergents are heavily replacing soaps anyway, not that it matters....! For somebody working 25 years in the industry, that's a pretty obvious error.


Generally!!!!!!!!!!!

Like everything else, alternatives are the way of today because of the cost and shortages. But note you do not say are not made, so no error.

There is no way to control the individual output from crude. Each barrel of crude contains a varying % of its component fractions, and you cannot change that. You cannot vary the output to suit what you want, it 's make up is fixed. All we can do is break it down into the individual components. Modern refineries do this very efficiently by wringing the very last drop from the process. The way the process works, the lighter products rum away first, and petrol whether you like it or not is one of those. Oil companies make millions from the products of crude, and mere pennies from petrol. They have to get rid of the petrol somehow because it is always there, you cannot make it disappear just to suit your ideals. Nor can you push it through into the next stage because that would contaminate everything else.
Simple science tells you matter cannot be destroyed. So logically in any given quantity of crude oil, there is a fixed amount of petrol. It is one of the components that make up crude, and nobody has the ability to change that.

The only reason that petrol, is considered a product is because we are stupid enough to buy it. That was the whole point of my post. If we refuse to buy it, it is still going to be produced, there is no avoiding that, and the cheappest option for the oil companies would be to give it away. Storage, or burning will cost them money, we use it and that costs them nothing,.
banned#33
KDH001;2152996
) Soaps are not made generally from crude oil, the saponification process uses other fats from plant and animal sources. Detergents are heavily replacing soaps anyway, not that it matters....! For somebody working 25 years in the industry, that's a pretty obvious error.


Generally!!!!!!!!!!!

Like everything else, alternatives are the way of today because of the cost and shortages. But note you do not say are not made, so no error.

There is no way to control the individual output from crude. Each barrel of crude contains a varying % of its component fractions, and you cannot change that. You cannot vary the output to suit what you want, it 's make up is fixed. All we can do is break it down into the individual components. Modern refineries do this very efficiently by wringing the very last drop from the process. The way the process works, the lighter products rum away first, and petrol whether you like it or not is one of those. Oil companies make millions from the products of crude, and mere pennies from petrol. They have to get rid of the petrol somehow because it is always there, you cannot make it disappear just to suit your ideals. Nor can you push it through into the next stage because that would contaminate everything else.
Simple science tells you matter cannot be destroyed. So logically in any given quantity of crude oil, there is a fixed amount of petrol. It is one of the components that make up crude, and nobody has the ability to change that.

The only reason that petrol, is considered a product is because we are stupid enough to buy it. That was the whole point of my post. If we refuse to buy it, it is still going to be produced, there is no avoiding that, and the cheappest option for the oil companies would be to give it away. Storage, or burning will cost them money, we use it and that costs them nothing,.

Have to side with you here mate, we were always told petrol was one of the earliest run offs at school (was about 15 yrs back though)....

Also, few weeks back the other guy said petrol companies didn't make that much off petrol and it was all the stuff in the shops where they made money
#34
I can't believe I still chose to read this. A few more issues then:

1) Soap is basically not made from crude oil, there may be a few very specific soaps made in very low quantities from oil, but soap is not made from crude oil. I used the word generally incase of the few very specific specicialist soaps.
2) 100 years ago what you say is correct, however, now it is simply wrong. I mean SERIOUSLY wrong.
Each barrel of crude contains a varying % of its component fractions, and you cannot change that. You cannot vary the output to suit what you want, it 's make up is fixed.

Wrong, what do you think half of the process does? At GCSE science your statement is correct, but at practical levels, it is wrong, completely wrong. Have you never heard of a cracker? It takes long chain hydrocarbons and makes them much shorter, or alkenes (olefins) and unsats to saturates. A refiner does more than physical separations, it is chemistry too.

Simple science tells you that mass and energy can not be destroyed (1st and 2nd laws of thermo), not that matter can't be changed from one thing to another. For example, if the market for petrol goes, the petrol will be converted into H2 and CO syngas. Simple as.
and nobody has the ability to change that.

Yes, they do, that's why in any mass balance you have generation and removal, since the process is not just phsyical but chemical.

3) Are you still serious that it's a waste? If nothing else, its calorific value is huge, they would burn all the fuel we use in our engines and generate masses of electricity.
1 Like #35
ODB_69
Have to side with you here mate, we were always told petrol was one of the earliest run offs at school (was about 15 yrs back though)....

Also, few weeks back the other guy said petrol companies didn't make that much off petrol and it was all the stuff in the shops where they made money


It is a light product (LPGs being lighter) but that is near here nor there in any sense. I do not understand what basis that has on anything, it's a statement of fact but not of relevance.

I never said the comment about "stuff in shops", so do not incorrctly quote me.
#36
Isnt that Blazin' Squads, promotional picture?
banned#37
pghstochaj;2153275
It is a light product (LPGs being lighter) but that is near here nor there in any sense. I do not understand what basis that has on anything, it's a statement of fact but not of relevance.

I never said the comment about "stuff in shops", so do not incorrctly quote me.

Did you or did you not say they don't make much on the petrol?
You said it a few weeks back I'm sure you know the thread I'm talking about
#38
I did say that, it's a widely known 'fact', but I didn't say anything about shops, somebody else did. Oil refiners make their money mainly from feedstock production (I stated all this in the other thread), such as naphtha, kerosene and other fine/bulk feedstocks. However, there is a limited market for this so they tend to push towards making lighter HCs (e.g. through cracking) for the remainder, thus petrol etc. They would most probably happily stop cracking to very short HCs such as LPGs and petrols and keep the higher margins on their other products, but their market is limited.

The fact that crackers and other techniques on a plant actively move long HCs to short HCs for petrols (etc.) prove it is a desired product, just selling to a consumer means a limited mark up due to masses of competition. If the petrol market disappeared tomorrow, they would presumably have to move to other energy generation systems such as syngas production like we sometimes do with coal gasification.

Unfortunately, demand is at an all time high and supply will always be limited (and soon in decline), thus we have to pay the prices we pay. It becomes a political decision as to whether the government can lower taxes.

Unforunately, when somebody says that soap is a major product of the refining industry, you have to take what they say with a pinch of salt.
banned#40
Ok you said something along those lines which I took as in-shop products but I see what you mean now...
But you did say they didn't make that much money off it....which I don't believe...sorry

Question is who is right?
1 works for them
1 used to work for them
But 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT opinions??

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