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Second Scot referendum inevitable, it could finish off or make SNP unbeatable.

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A second Scottish independence referendum is now almost inevitable, with ministers concluding it is a question of when — not if — a vote is called. People close to Theresa May’s office said they ex… Read More
davewave Avatar
2m, 2w agoPosted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
A second Scottish independence referendum is now almost inevitable, with ministers concluding it is a question of when — not if — a vote is called.

People close to Theresa May’s office said they expected Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish first minister, to seek a referendum next autumn, but that the government would fight to delay the vote until after Britain leaves the EU.

Although the British government could withhold the legal authority for a vote, it now appears focused on determining the date instead.

“It’s looking inevitable, I don’t think we’re in any position to stop it happening,” said one minister close to the discussions. Another person briefed on Downing Street’s thinking said: “ The debate is only going to be about the date.”

But a person close to the Scotland Office denied that a vote was inevitable, adding that Ms Sturgeon could decide not to push for one.


https://www.ft.com/content/3edbbc7e-04ea-11e7-ace0-1ce02ef0def9
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davewave Avatar
2m, 2w agoPosted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
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(1)
15 Likes
to be honest as a Scot I'm sick of hearing about indyref2. if we are going to have one we should have it soon and get it over and done with. hopefully we vote to remain then we won't have to put up with Nicola Sturgeon constantly going on about it. how she thinks we could survive not being in the UK is beyond me. if we do end up back in the EU we will more than likely end up like Greece

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15 Likes #1
to be honest as a Scot I'm sick of hearing about indyref2. if we are going to have one we should have it soon and get it over and done with. hopefully we vote to remain then we won't have to put up with Nicola Sturgeon constantly going on about it. how she thinks we could survive not being in the UK is beyond me. if we do end up back in the EU we will more than likely end up like Greece
#2
Much like the referendum last year and UKIP
doubt it will make much difference either way to the SNP

When to call it is a tricky one for Sturgeon people not surprisingly fed up with referendums at the moment
but leave it to late and the window of opportunity caused by the leave vote closes
#3
Last time I thought it was sad to see them go. Woeful hopes about the EU, economic lies that would have left them broke.

Quite frankly I wish they had gone and I hope they do go now. Get Strugeon off the TV and get the complaining Scots complaining on there own TV shows somewhere else. Different country, wont have to hear from them again!

Goodbye, thank god!
#4
The Scots will vote to remain in the U.K. again and Sturgeon, if she has the brass neck to stay in politics, will push for a third referendum once we leave the EU.
3 Likes #5
I think if William Wallace (sorry, Nicola Sturgeon) doesn't get her own way, she should be hung, drawn and quatered and put on display outside Parliament or the tower of London.

All i hear whenever i hear her speak is "I wanna be prime minister, i wanna be prime minister, i wanna..."

Edited By: 118luke on Mar 10, 2017 08:13
2 Likes #6
I live in Scotland and sick and tired of it all they said we would have one vote and what ever the outcome of the vote would stay but they keep pushing for another vote ? How much money is going to be wasted how many more families are going to fall out again I think we should just leave it all now but Nicola sturgeon is Maggie thatcher and just won't listen
1 Like #7
She comes across as a passionate and strong politician, its just a shame she doesn't put her energy into sorting out some of Scotlands problems, starting with Scottish Education, Curriculum for Excellence is a massive car crash just waiting to happen, all based on deeply discredited Outcome Based Education as shown in Australia, South Africa and some states of the USA.
Funny how NS has gone quiet on education recently, you have to question someones judgement when they put in a flawed education system despite all evidence stating don't do it, but cynically rebrand it and sell Scottish kids futures down the river..


Edited By: DKLS on Mar 10, 2017 09:24
#8
It would be a suicidal move for Scotland to leave the UK, Especially after Brexit, I very much doubt Scotland could join the EU for a very long time after we've started Brexit negotiations as they would have to meet a certain criteria.

The only way would have been for Scotland to have already left the UK but be kept in the EU via our Brexit negotiations which isn't going to happen.

Also when will the rest of the UK get a vote on whether we should kick Scotland out of the UK?.

It's a total waste of taxpayers money, Luckily most Scots are intelligent enough to know what is best for them.
3 Likes #9
Perhaps the whole of GB should have a vote in this referendum too.
#10
I have told all my family in Scotland to vote leave.
2 Likes #11
david_wavid
I have told all my family in Scotland to vote leave.

Have you told them to take their holidays to Greece to see what their futures will look like?
Albeit without the sunshine.
#12
david_wavid
I have told all my family in Scotland to vote leave.
Yes and No
#13
Where is haggis
2 Likes #14
It'll only be advisory anyway...
#15
What is the Scottish equivalent of EU's "Article 50" , in the Acts of Union 1707, several hundred years' ago?
#16
scaryvonne
to be honest as a Scot I'm sick of hearing about indyref2. if we are going to have one we should have it soon and get it over and done with. hopefully we vote to remain then we won't have to put up with Nicola Sturgeon constantly going on about it. how she thinks we could survive not being in the UK is beyond me. if we do end up back in the EU we will more than likely end up like Greece
According to GDP per capita very similar Scotland US$43,410 and England US$ 42,106 (2016), so I would say roughly OK to live quite well (compared to Czech which is $18,326).
#17
splender
What is the Scottish equivalent of EU's "Article 50" , in the Acts of Union 1707, several hundred years' ago?


i give up what is it? But didn't they have a referendum in Scotland recently though so had an option in or out?
1 Like #18
splender
What is the Scottish equivalent of EU's "Article 50" , in the Acts of Union 1707, several hundred years' ago?
Article Whiskey.
#19
The anti-Brexit feeling is strong in Scotland but the anti-Tory sentiment is even stronger and that could be more than enough to swing people into voting to leave the union this time around especially with the prospect of perpetual Conservative governments in Westminster and no credible opposition, would blame them.

The same thing happened during the Brexit vote, many people used that vote as a vote against the Tories and I suspect the same will happen when Scotland gets another independence vote.
#20
freakstyler
The anti-Brexit feeling is strong in Scotland but the anti-Tory sentiment is even stronger and that could be more than enough to swing people into voting to leave the union this time around especially with the prospect of perpetual Conservative governments in Westminster and no credible opposition, would blame them.
The same thing happened during the Brexit vote, many people used that vote as a vote against the Tories and I suspect the same will happen when Scotland gets another independence vote.
Needs a swing of 330,000 , assuming 67% turnout again , the voter population is ~2.6m, so a swing of ~20% of the voters to do it (assuming those OUT remain OUT voters, 330,000 LEAVE swing to OUT because of Tory (but how attractive are the alternatives?) and because of UK Union is less attractive than EU, but how is this expressed in real or liars' numbers?! (factor in if Scotland could join the EU...maybe but 20% swing is quite something but they are socially more North-west European than England and social-community life closer to the Nordics).
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1175E/production/_90081517_scotland_map.png



Edited By: splender on Mar 10, 2017 12:23
#21
davewave
splender
What is the Scottish equivalent of EU's "Article 50" , in the Acts of Union 1707, several hundred years' ago?

i give up what is it? But didn't they have a referendum in Scotland recently though so had an option in or out?
I dunno either what the triggering method is too. I am asking now because prior to UK referendum last year hardly any one in the news media talked about how and who to trigger Article 50 and because hardly anyone looked at it it was omitted in the European Union Referendum Act 2015.
#22
No objection to the Scots having another referendum IF there is a clause included that states if the vote is for remain, there can't be another referendum for at least 10 or preferably 20 years.
#23
I'd happily back the SNP for an Indref....on 1 condition. If we then say no, they must disband and all current MPs should jump in the North Sea.
#24
It will be interesting to see how the SNP make the economic case for independence next time as I believe they are removing north sea oil revenues from the figure given the way the price of oil has tanked recently. They've always said oil was a "bonus" and that it wasn't important to their plans despite it being a key factor in their economic plans last time.....
#25
RedLozzer
It will be interesting to see how the SNP make the economic case for independence next time as I believe they are removing north sea oil revenues from the figure given the way the price of oil has tanked recently. They've always said oil was a "bonus" and that it wasn't important to their plans despite it being a key factor in their economic plans last time.....

Create accounting ?

The Scottish economy is simply not strong enough. The SNP believe that the EU will be nice to them and bend the rules but that won't happen. For starters, Scotland has a 10% budget deficit which is funded by England. They would need to get that down to 3% to be allowed in the EU club, its fantasy for land for the SNP to believe that Brussels will pick up the tab from the Treasury.
1 Like #26
davewave
david_wavid
I have told all my family in Scotland to vote leave.
Yes and No
"Finish off or make the SNP unbeatable" ???

Sober up, Dave.

It won't ever finish them off - not even the worst possible beating will ever rid us of them - and that's a fact.

They are Nationalists - no different from the Nationalists who were incensed at the union in 1707 and flooded the streets of Scotland with murderous intent as they rioted in every town and city - they have always been here in one form or another and they will always be here.
Thus, any talk of finishing them off is sadly no more than wishful thinking at best and rank ignorance at worst.

As for making them unbeatable, they are politicians - the people will blame them - for something or nothing the people will blame them, NOT because of anything they do or do not do, but because the people have always blamed politicians.
Thus, any talk of them being 'unbeatable' is thankfully no more than ignorance at best and rank stupidity at worst.

I do not believe you, Dave, are either ignorant or stupid (though 'wishful thinking' is not beyond you), so I can only assume you've been taking advantage of some of the excellent whisky deals on here recently, and have perhaps underestimated the length of time it takes to sober up after partaking of them.
1 Like #27
tryn2help
davewave
david_wavid
I have told all my family in Scotland to vote leave.
Yes and No
"Finish off or make the SNP unbeatable" ???
Sober up, Dave.
It won't ever finish them off - not even the worst possible beating will ever rid us of them - and that's a fact.
They are Nationalists - no different from the Nationalists who were incensed at the union in 1707 and flooded the streets of Scotland with murderous intent as they rioted in every town and city - they have always been here in one form or another and they will always be here.
Thus, any talk of finishing them off is sadly no more than wishful thinking at best and rank ignorance at worst.
As for making them unbeatable, they are politicians - the people will blame them - for something or nothing the people will blame them, NOT because of anything they do or do not do, but because the people have always blamed politicians.
Thus, any talk of them being 'unbeatable' is thankfully no more than ignorance at best and rank stupidity at worst.
I do not believe you, Dave, are either ignorant or stupid (though 'wishful thinking' is not beyond you), so I can only assume you've been taking advantage of some of the excellent whisky deals on here recently, and have perhaps underestimated the length of time it takes to sober up after partaking of them.
you cheeky beggar, no whisky, but I do appreciate that some people will blame the SNP for their actions and others will blame the UK
#28
spoo
No objection to the Scots having another referendum IF there is a clause included that states if the vote is for remain, there can't be another referendum for at least 10 or preferably 20 years.
Anti-democratic.
Oneday77
I'd happily back the SNP for an Indref....on 1 condition. If we then say no, they must disband and all current MPs should jump in the North Sea.
Anti-common sense.
#29
davewave
you cheeky beggar, no whisky, but I do appreciate that some people will blame the SNP for their actions and others will blame the UK
X) lol.

Obviously there are many different groups within the SNP - as there are in every party - but the group that concerns me here is those who treat it as an affront to be ruled by another country, even if it's blatantly obvious it's far more beneficial for them.

For me, those people are clearly not so much interested in what's best for people as they are in being masters of their own destiny (or more likely their own downfall).

Thankfully they are only one of a number of different groups, but those characters in particular are blindly driven by nothing more than nationalism for nationalism's sake, they're not interested in whether or not it's a good or bad thing.
#30
DKLS
RedLozzer
It will be interesting to see how the SNP make the economic case for independence next time as I believe they are removing north sea oil revenues from the figure given the way the price of oil has tanked recently. They've always said oil was a "bonus" and that it wasn't important to their plans despite it being a key factor in their economic plans last time.....
Create accounting ?
The Scottish economy is simply not strong enough. The SNP believe that the EU will be nice to them and bend the rules but that won't happen. For starters, Scotland has a 10% budget deficit which is funded by England. They would need to get that down to 3% to be allowed in the EU club, its fantasy for land for the SNP to believe that Brussels will pick up the tab from the Treasury.



The deficit criteria is not for joining the EU, but for joining the euro

But lets imagine for a minute Scotland was forced to join the euro, Westminster has rejected a currency union, which in turn implies the UKs debt is now the UKs and not Scotlands

So Scotland would be starting with government debt equal to 0% of GDP. and would also have a budget surplus, never mind a 3% deficit.

Edited By: jaybizzle on Mar 10, 2017 15:38
#31
jaybizzle
DKLS
RedLozzer
It will be interesting to see how the SNP make the economic case for independence next time as I believe they are removing north sea oil revenues from the figure given the way the price of oil has tanked recently. They've always said oil was a "bonus" and that it wasn't important to their plans despite it being a key factor in their economic plans last time.....
Create accounting ?
The Scottish economy is simply not strong enough. The SNP believe that the EU will be nice to them and bend the rules but that won't happen. For starters, Scotland has a 10% budget deficit which is funded by England. They would need to get that down to 3% to be allowed in the EU club, its fantasy for land for the SNP to believe that Brussels will pick up the tab from the Treasury.



The deficit criteria is not for joining the EU, but for joining the euro

But lets imagine for a minute Scotland was forced to join the euro, Westminster has rejected a currency union, which in turn implies the UKs debt is now the UKs and not Scotlands

So Scotland would be starting with government debt equal to 0% of GDP. and would also have a budget surplus, never mind a 3% deficit.


and an ability to borrow zero! Although perhaps they could be the next Greece, there's hope eh?
#32
jaybizzle
DKLS
RedLozzer
It will be interesting to see how the SNP make the economic case for independence next time as I believe they are removing north sea oil revenues from the figure given the way the price of oil has tanked recently. They've always said oil was a "bonus" and that it wasn't important to their plans despite it being a key factor in their economic plans last time.....
Create accounting ?
The Scottish economy is simply not strong enough. The SNP believe that the EU will be nice to them and bend the rules but that won't happen. For starters, Scotland has a 10% budget deficit which is funded by England. They would need to get that down to 3% to be allowed in the EU club, its fantasy for land for the SNP to believe that Brussels will pick up the tab from the Treasury.
The deficit criteria is not for joining the EU, but for joining the euro
But lets imagine for a minute Scotland was forced to join the euro, Westminster has rejected a currency union, which in turn implies the UKs debt is now the UKs and not Scotlands
So Scotland would be starting with government debt equal to 0% of GDP. and would also have a budget surplus, never mind a 3% deficit.

Thats quite a big Imagine!, If it does happen I reckon the debt would be split fairly via GDP per Capita, but immediately the Scots would lose the AAA status that allows for cheap loans, and the costs of borrowing will jump.

If the Scots don't like Tory "austerity" vote to leave just wait til they have greek style austerity. Its very easy to have nice cuddly socialist policies when Westminster is paying for it.
#33
http://i64.tinypic.com/34g1y1h.jpg


Edited By: jaybizzle on Mar 10, 2017 16:02
2 Likes #34
I get you all hate Scotland and believe the rags down south that Scotland is too wee and stupid to run their own country, but shall leave you with this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CstQyyRWYAAHobk.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CstRusiXYAAYzNM.jpg



Edited By: jaybizzle on Mar 10, 2017 16:14
2 Likes #35
jaybizzle
I get you all hate Scotland and believe the rags down south that Scotland is too wee and stupid to run their own country, but shall leave you with thishttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/CstQyyRWYAAHobk.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/CstRusiXYAAYzNM.jpg
who is Scotland's largest trading partner?

The rest of the UK is, by far, Scotland's biggest economic partner. In 2011, Scotland sold goods and services worth £45.5 billion to the UK, double the levels exported to the rest of the world. It is also four times greater than Scottish sales to the rest of the European Union.


lots of people just hate those who cant accept a referendum rather than Scottish people as a whole, hence why lots of people are happy for Scotland to remain and sort out their education back to the high standard, and perhaps drink less, exercise more (Sturgeon could do more about both critical issues)!
#36
I get you all hate Scotland and believe the rags down south that Scotland is too wee and stupid to run their own country, but shall leave you with this

Rodric Selbie's comments is a load of rubbish. Credit ratings agency Moody predict A rating (two lower than Britains' AA1), Fitch less than AAA,even the Standard & Poor which is quoted state in the actual report that is the ratings is at worse BBB+ to AAA at best. So the article writer is selecting the best overall credit rating, although only a few countries now hold the highest S&P AAA rating.


Edited By: nemesiz on Mar 10, 2017 17:31
2 Likes #37
shauneco
splender
What is the Scottish equivalent of EU's "Article 50" , in the Acts of Union 1707, several hundred years' ago?
Article Whiskey.

Brexfast.
1 Like #38
tryn2help
davewave
you cheeky beggar, no whisky, but I do appreciate that some people will blame the SNP for their actions and others will blame the UK
X) lol.
Obviously there are many different groups within the SNP - as there are in every party - but the group that concerns me here is those who treat it as an affront to be ruled by another country, even if it's blatantly obvious it's far more beneficial for them.
For me, those people are clearly not so much interested in what's best for people as they are in being masters of their own destiny (or more likely their own downfall).
Thankfully they are only one of a number of different groups, but those characters in particular are blindly driven by nothing more than nationalism for nationalism's sake, they're not interested in whether or not it's a good or bad thing.
Yes you could change the wording for a certain other recent referendum (_;)
#39
splender
freakstyler
The anti-Brexit feeling is strong in Scotland but the anti-Tory sentiment is even stronger and that could be more than enough to swing people into voting to leave the union this time around especially with the prospect of perpetual Conservative governments in Westminster and no credible opposition, would blame them.
The same thing happened during the Brexit vote, many people used that vote as a vote against the Tories and I suspect the same will happen when Scotland gets another independence vote.
Needs a swing of 330,000 , assuming 67% turnout again , the voter population is ~2.6m, so a swing of ~20% of the voters to do it (assuming those OUT remain OUT voters, 330,000 LEAVE swing to OUT because of Tory (but how attractive are the alternatives?) and because of UK Union is less attractive than EU, but how is this expressed in real or liars' numbers?! (factor in if Scotland could join the EU...maybe but 20% swing is quite something but they are socially more North-west European than England and social-community life closer to the Nordics).
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1175E/production/_90081517_scotland_map.png


Yes I know you are replying to a comment about Brexit
but to talk about 'swings' from that vote to a independence vote is nonsense
#40
The Scottish tail selfishly trying to wag the UK dog.

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