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Selling fakes on HUKD

dinosteveus Avatar
9y, 7m agoPosted 9 years, 7 months ago
OK Rayman, I'll start a post, if you or another Mod would like tro reply.
Did the OP of this thread:- Tiffany & co bracelet have a post removed last week or the week before for selling a fake Tiffany item on HUKD?
dinosteveus Avatar
9y, 7m agoPosted 9 years, 7 months ago
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#1
No Steve he didn't have a post removed for having a fake on ebay. What people do on ebay, has nothing to with with on here - if people wish to check backgrounds, that is up to them.

Their post was removed as it contained an image which was the same as an auction already on ebay.




EDIT - I meant HUKD, not ebay, in the first sentence...
#2
emmajk42
No Steve he didn't have a post removed for having a fake on ebay. What people do on ebay, has nothing to with with on here - if people wish to check backgrounds, that is up to them.

Their post was removed as it contained an image which was the same as an auction already on ebay.

OK, Thanks Emma. -:-D
Please lock this thread.
#3
I'd like to leave it open, in case anyone wants to discuss the issue.
#4
i don't really want to discuss the issue, but i am confused - dinosteveus asked if the OP had "a post removed last week or the week before for selling a fake Tiffany item on HUKD?" - and Emma replied that the OP "didn't have a post removed for having a fake on ebay" ... or have i misunderstood?
#5
Sorry, I meant HUKD.
#6
Ah - okay thanks - that clears that up
[mod]#7
[SIZE=2]Yesterday the OP was informed that the thread would be removed unless he could provide a receipt to prove it was genuine. But he's informed it was a 'gift' and that he couldn't do that. So now, i assume that as the thread is still live then this is an acceptable way to dodge these questions and that the same rule will stand for all sellers in the future?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Personally i find the fact that posts are deleted when concerns are raised due to 'thread spoiling' and then for an eventual buyer to be told when they find out that it's fake or that they don't receive their item "well you should have been more careful" a bit absurd.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Personally i don't care anymore, i'm fed up with obvious scammers having the upper hand over genuine people trying to prevent others from losing out because of 'forum rules' pathetic.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2]But if that's the way it is then fine. I for one will no longer get involved in actively trying to prevent other people from getting ripped off and will just look out for myself. Good luck to the scammers (not that they need it, it's already too easy to do on here.)[/SIZE]
#8
emmajk42
I'd like to leave it open, in case anyone wants to discuss the issue.

I asked for this to be closed/locked but if you won't.....

If somebody sells fakes on ebay it stands to reason (or mine at least) that they will try the same stunt on here.
The OP's last Tiffany item was removed from ebay by VeRO, so you will not find ANY record of it on ebay. Once VeRO remove a listing it is removed completely. That means that potential buyers on HUKD would NOT know about their last Tiffany necklace was a fake. It's through people like me remembering and trying to post that fact, that potential buyers don't get scammed into buying a fake.

If you Emma or the other Mods want me to stop posting and reporting posts on the FS/FT/Wanted forum just tell me, my PM box is full, but you all have my email address. It's no problem.:thumbsup:
#9
Syzable
[SIZE=2]Yesterday the OP was informed that the thread would be removed unless he could provide a receipt to prove it was genuine. But he's informed it was a 'gift' and that he couldn't do that. So now, i assume that as the thread is still live then this is an acceptable way to dodge these questions and that the same rule will stand for all sellers in the future?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Personally i find the fact that posts are deleted when concerns are raised due to 'thread spoiling' and then for an eventual buyer to be told when they find out that it's fake or that they don't receive their item "well you should have been more careful" a bit absurd.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Personally i don't care anymore, i'm fed up with obvious scammers having the upper hand over genuine people trying to prevent others from losing out because of 'forum rules' pathetic.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2]But if that's the way it is then fine. I for one will no longer get involved in actively trying to prevent other people from getting ripped off and will just look out for myself. Good luck to the scammers (not that they need it, it's already too easy to do on here.)[/SIZE]


Flippin eck, somebody that thinks the same way as me. :thumbsup: I was beginning to think I was on my own. :oops:
[admin]#10
We're not an assay service for goodness sakes. And yes people need to make their own decisions when purchasing. I don't see why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp.

Why don't you start a thread about common scams and how to check things out?

I think we all know the old saying - feed a man a fish he eats for a day - teach a man to fish he eats for life.

p.s. I think anyone buying "Tiffany" jewellery online anywhere other than a respected high street type store would be nuts.
#11
Admin
We're not an assay service for goodness sakes. And yes people need to make their own decisions when purchasing. I don't see why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp.

Why don't you start a thread about common scams and how to check things out?

I think we all know the old saying - feed a man a fish he eats for a day - teach a man to fish he eats for life.


Did you read this Paul:-
If somebody sells fakes on ebay it stands to reason (or mine at least) that they will try the same stunt on here.
The OP's last Tiffany item was removed from ebay by VeRO, so you will not find ANY record of it on ebay. Once VeRO remove a listing it is removed completely. That means that potential buyers on HUKD would NOT know about their last Tiffany necklace was a fake. It's through people like me remembering and trying to post that fact, that potential buyers don't get scammed into buying a fake.

If there is NO record, then how can anybody check? People decide on the information available. If I provide information and it is removed then who are the Mods helping?

I'll start a thread about 'common scams' if I can put a link to it in my sig so people can easily find it. It's all well and good having 'stickies', but who sees them or looks for them?
#12
Admin

p.s. I think anyone buying "Tiffany" jewellery online anywhere other than a respected high street type store would be nuts.

Why?? Is it because they are likely to be fake? In that case what are the chances of the one on here being fake? If there is even a slight chance it could be fake do HUKD allow 'fakes' to be posted on the FS forum because it's still there?
#13
I don't know why we don't just get rid of the Fs/Ft.... its causing more and more problems of late
[admin]#14
Let's follow this through Steve.

Forget about the eBay listing. Let's say there was just this post. Let's say a mod asked for a receipt. Let's say they gave a receipt. Then what? Personally I still wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. You have to use your own head to make a decision. The only way I would buy any high end jewellery like Tiffany online or offline is if I met the person in real life and went to a Tiffany store to have it verified.

To me that's my acceptable level of risk. Perhaps it's not for you. Perhaps you would be happy with a receipt posted online and in that case that would be your acceptable level of risk. It's not for me to come in and say no you can't buy because I wouldn't.

Ok, another scenario - forget risk levels. Let's say we make a "trustworthy" forum and employ a team to screen every deal and person for validity. Do you think we would actually catch everyone? I don't. And then you know what HUKD members would think - they'd think the forum was "trustworthy" and that they wouldn't have to check things out for themselves. That it's existence on the boards meant it was a-ok. And when inevitably that scammer came through what would you say?

Ok. Before even getting to that level let's talk about "trustworthy" and preventing scammers. How can you do that 100%? Can you? Of course not. It's impossible. Other than physically and fully inspecting and testing all goods and exchanging cash and goods in person (with devices to check for counterfeit bills) is it possible? No.

The point I'm making is (A) there is a level of risk to trading on the boards that will never be eliminated and (B) the best way to increase security is *teaching* people to be skeptical and cautious - not to make their decisions for them.
#15
Becksdawe
I don't know why we don't just get rid of the Fs/Ft.... its causing more and more problems of late

There have been hundreds of successful trades on the FS/FT/Wanted Forum.
It's just the odd few, that spoil it for the rest. Just like the PM Restrictions and the 'NO' sig rule.
#16
Becksdawe
I don't know why we don't just get rid of the Fs/Ft.... its causing more and more problems of late

Or... people that are wanting to sell or trade should pass a probationary period of, say, about 3 months, of actually being active to the forum.

Its kinda like getting to know them the more they post - you get me :?
[mod]#17
Admin
We're not an assay service for goodness sakes. And yes people need to make their own decisions when purchasing. I don't see why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp.


Why then build a forum as a community website when we can't post in threads to help out others in the community? Doesn't make sense.

It seems that it's all for one and come together when we're clicking through links that help pay for the site and any profit if there is some. But when it comes down to something that the site doesn't have a vested interest in and can't make money from then it's each to their own and keep quiet. Is that right?
[admin]#18
Why?? Is it because they are likely to be fake? In that case what are the chances of the one on here being fake? If there is even a slight chance it could be fake do HUKD allow 'fakes' to be posted on the FS forum because it's still there?


Is there a slight chance any item on the boards could be fake? Is there a chance photos and receipts could be photochopped? Could the item be a cardboard replica and not the real thing?

Yes of course.

On the flip side is there a slight chance it is genuine?

Yes of course.

As in the post above it is up to a person to use their head to decide what is an acceptable level of risk and what is proof of validity. Be skeptical. On anything no matter what. The only way to avoid being ripped off is deal with people you trust. That's what feedback is for.
[admin]#19
It seems that it's all for one and come together when we're clicking through links that help pay for the site and any profit if there is some. But when it comes down to something that the site doesn't have a vested interest in and can't make money from then it's each to their own and keep quiet. Is that right?

I think that theory would make more sense the other way. If forum policy was driven by financial consideration we'd want you to keep quiet on deals not on non-monetised areas of the site...

FS/FT is open for people genuinely interested in trading. Before we started enforcing this rule genuine traders were wasting time satisfying the whims of people who had no interest in actually going forth with a deal.
#20
Admin

The point I'm making is (A) there is a level of risk to trading on the boards that will never be eliminated and (B) the best way to increase security is *teaching* people to be skeptical and cautious - not to make their decisions for them.


We have been around quite a while and I think we are both 'switched on' but you have a lot of young and inexperienced members on here. They are the ones that need 'help'. By removing posts on the FS forum from the 'experienced members', who is looking out for them. You like to call it 'thread spoiling', but I call it 'looking out for the inexperienced'.

Read the posts from me about jase159 that the Mods removed. I tried to warn everybody ages ago, now look, people have been scammed by him.
[admin]#21
I think we need to address those points I agree. However I think the way to address them is education rather than screening and enforcement.

New persons to the fs/ft boards should know that dealing with anyone other than a member with substantial feedback from other trusted members is not worth the bother. And if they decide to ignore our advice then they should accept the risk that carries.

I would personally recommend that new traders trade only with high rep traders and that to establish their reputation they accept terms such as shipping first. Any new poster who starts selling immediately on the boards should be strongly avoided or considered a major risk factor.
#22
Admin
Is there a slight chance any item on the boards could be fake? Is there a chance photos and receipts could be photochopped? Could the item be a cardboard replica and not the real thing?

Yes of course.

On the flip side is there a slight chance it is genuine?

Yes of course.

As in the post above it is up to a person to use their head to decide what is an acceptable level of risk and what is proof of validity. Be skeptical. On anything no matter what. The only way to avoid being ripped off is deal with people you trust. That's what feedback is for.


Why don't the Mods enforce the 'Disclaimer' that is posted? They could easily 'lock' a thread until they are supplied with the details they ask for. By leaving it open the inexperienced could think the Mods have the OP's contact details because they have asked for them.
#23
dinosteveus
Why don't the Mods enforce the 'Disclaimer' that is posted? They could easily 'lock' a thread until they are supplied with the details they ask for.


I like that idea :thumbsup:
[admin]#24
I don't think mods should have anything to do with the fs/ft process. That is something we are doing as a stopgap but will be stopped once we have an automated advice/warning added to the bottom of fs/ft posts.

Edit: To add to that - I also want an automated display of feedback on the bottom of the post.
#25
Admin
I think we need to address those points I agree. However I think the way to address them is education rather than screening and enforcement.

New persons to the fs/ft boards should know that dealing with anyone other than a member with substantial feedback from other trusted members is not worth the bother. And if they decide to ignore our advice then they should accept the risk that carries.

I would personally recommend that new traders trade only with high rep traders and that to establish their reputation they accept terms such as shipping first. Any new poster who starts selling immediately on the boards should be strongly avoided or considered a major risk factor.


Yes, Yes and Yes. :thumbsup:
Who is going to make that point clear? It needs it's own post, not added to the 'Disclaimer' that is obviously ignored by most.
#26
Why is this posted when it's clearly not enforced or followed up?:-

[COLOR=#0000ff]Please be advised, all buyers and sellers should satisfy themselves that either party is genuine by providing the following via PM to each other, as well as to Admin or Moderator:
[/COLOR]
#27
Admin
I don't think mods should have anything to do with the fs/ft process.


I think a Mods time should be spend on this process personally. They don't have to be out searching for their own deals 24/7 really!
#28
dinosteveus
Why is this posted when it's clearly not enforced or followed up?:-



Well I have just followed it on my first HUKD sale http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-001.gif
[helper] 1 Like #29
I'm with Dino on this one and I think most other HUKDers would be as well. I don't think it is thread spoiling to question the authenticity if there are indications that an item is fake. I think Dino has provided an excellent reminder that the "buyer should beware".
If I was selling a genuine item I would be happy to provide what proof I can. With a community like this it is very easy to get complacent and assume everyone is reliable and you forget some of the caution you'd exercise on Ebay. Better to have a Dino guard dog than some ripped off HUKDers.
Keep up the good work Dino.
#30
fireheaven
Well I have just followed it on my first HUKD sale http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-001.gif

Nice one :thumbsup:
#31
Admin

Edit: To add to that - I also want an automated display of feedback on the bottom of the post.

Feedback? It's all well and good but it's too new to be as effective as it could be.
#32
gari189
With a community like this it is very easy to get complacent and assume everyone is reliable and you forget some of the caution you'd exercise on Ebay.

I agree, this is a very friendly forum/site and some people loose their guard because of the 'friendliness' that's HUKD. It's easily done.

Thanks for the kind words.
#33
personally i think the sale/trade section should be removed from here.

for one i have seen countless times people thread spoiling and saying they can get it cheaper here etc

that would be right obviously as this is a bargain hunting site so having a for sale section doesnt quite match with the reason of this site

secondly theres just not enough trust on here to go thru with a sale and personally i would and NEVER will buy anything in the forsale section even if the price is too good!
sorry just my few thoughts dont flame me please!:giggle:
#34
muffin247
personally i think the sale/trade section should be removed from here.

for one i have seen countless times people thread spoiling and saying they can get it cheaper here etc

that would be right obviously as this is a bargain hunting site so having a for sale section doesnt quite match with the reason of this site

secondly theres just not enough trust on here to go thru with a sale and personally i would and NEVER will buy anything in the forsale section even if the price is too good!
sorry just my few thoughts dont flame me please!:giggle:

I have bought from two sellers on here without any probs. :thumbsup:
Nobody will 'flame' you, we are all entitled to post how we feel.
#35
yep without any probs, but would u be saying the same thing if one of those was a scam sale?

if the feedback system is to be implemented can it not be done in a way that the rating is next to a persons name for easy spotting and referencing, bit like av forums?

just another thought
#36
I think everyone is making valid points here, but i think no matter what measures are taken, scams will always happen. All we can do is keep an eye out. Look at computer hackers for instance you could have very good security prog but they still get passed it if they want to. Plus to validate a product isnt getting to the bottom of it i can easily put my wii for sale which i do have, stick a pic, my reciept a pic of me sitting playing it etc etc but once im sent the cash thats it i can just not send it....so like ive said before its only the person giving their money that can judge what level or risk they will take, and weather they take the procedures.

An idea maybe, dunno if its possible. But any chance it can be automated that before you can post in the FS/FT forum they be re-directed to a post with info and tips, then if ppl ignore this also i think its their own fault...

id be more than happy to write up a post if its possible
#37
muffin247
yep without any probs, but would u be saying the same thing if one of those was a scam sale?

if the feedback system is to be implemented can it not be done in a way that the rating is next to a persons name for easy spotting and referencing, bit like av forums?

just another thought



ive sold loads on here, and bought a bit....ive also been ripped off once. The only time i didnt check or buy from a well known user was when i got scammed. Just proves really.
#38
This post must have been missed :giggle: :whistling: :-


Why is this posted when it's clearly not enforced or followed up?:-

[COLOR=#0000ff]Please be advised, all buyers and sellers should satisfy themselves that either party is genuine by providing the following via PM to each other, as well as to Admin or Moderator:
[/COLOR]



Also, I've see posts removed for not posting a picture, so why can't this be enforced?:?
#39
We can't force people to PM details to us, it's still down to them whether they follow that guideline.
#40
rayman
We can't force people to PM details to us, it's still down to them whether they follow that guideline.

But you do 'force' people to post a picture of the actual item. :? :? I don't understand, soz. :oops: :oops:

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