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Should public sector workers take a pay freeze?

master_chief Avatar
banned6y, 6m agoPosted 6 years, 6 months ago
Taken from the BBC website:

The Confederation of British Industry says teachers, nurses, police officers and council workers should have their pay frozen for at least two years.

But Brendan Barber, General Secretary of the TUC, says the private sector helped get us into this mess so they should share the pain.

Should the public sector take the pay freeze? Or should the pain be shared by the private sector?
master_chief Avatar
banned6y, 6m agoPosted 6 years, 6 months ago
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banned#1
Personally I don't think it's fair. A pay freeze is a pay cut.
banned#2
basically no but at the same time, remove final salary pension schemes for new employees as that is building up major problems for future generations of workers.
#3
i say no because i am a public sector worker
#4
not fair-but reality i suppose-my OH works in the private sector and they have had no raises this year - so in effect a paycut because the cost of living has risen - but i suppose its better than having no job !

I am still waiting to see about me - but i expect i will have no rise either - and i work in education.
#5
ding
i say no because i am a public sector worker


+1
#6
I haven't had a pay rise or review in two years, why should my taxes pay for other people to get one?
#7
I also don't agree as I work in the public sector and my wages are not that great anyway so by getting a pay freeze I would be working at a lower rate considering the cost of living goes up each year but my wages would remain the same I just feel it is wrong.

Don't get me wrong I am grateful to have a job considering the way the economy is and people are losing their jobs but it's not down to the public sector as to why we got into this mess so why use the public sector to get out the mess. It's still makes me laugh that all these big bankers still get their fat bonuses though
#8
I say yes, because I work in the private sector and I've had to accept a pay freeze, why not public sector workers?
banned#9
Had about 25% pay rise in 3 years, I am a public sector worker and I say yes to a pay freeze. Labour were a bloody joke (sorry off topic)
#10
It will happen the Tories already said they will pay freeze the public sector next year.........It's kind of ironic the public sector is expected to share the wedge for the private sectors mess ups, and those innocents in the private sectors too.

Many public sector jobs are skilled or require thousands upon thousands investment for intital training so the govt have to balance that with what they need to save you have, drs, nurses, teachers, firmen, police, armed forces, etc.

It's kind of irrelevenat for us as the Tories are doubling deployment bonus, but everyone has to share the burden I guess, those that are going to be hit hard are those in non jobs and private contracts.

The amount of wastage on private contracts is extortionate, as is the amount on managerial/admin posts with regards to all public sector depts, that's where the axe will go first.

So I guess I agree.
#11
MBeeching
I haven't had a pay rise or review in two years, why should my taxes pay for other people to get one?


i havent had one so why should everyone else get one
nice attitude ....not
banned#12
tinkerbell28

Many public sector jobs are skilled or require thousands upon thousands investment for intital training so the govt have to balance that with what they need to save you have.


I've had a freeze on all non mandatory training and overtime since August last year ;-)
banned#13
I say no.

I think they should have a pay rise - they should also get gummy drops and unicorns to ride to work.

But in the real world where we need to cut spending and reduce the deficit then unfortunately there need to be pay freezes and maybe even job cuts.
#14
lumoruk
I've had a freeze on all non mandatory training and overtime since August last year ;-)


Overtime what's that:w00t:

Training is ok in hubs trade:santa:
#15
I think they should have a pay rise - they should also get gummy drops and unicorns to ride to work
that sounds nice but i dont want to leave my job to be an MP
#16
ding;8642254
nice attitude ....not


You can have a pay rise, I just don't want to pay for it... why should I?
#17
MBeeching
You can have a pay rise, I just don't want to pay for it... why should I?


See you say that, but I am sure you want some decent nurses/dr's/teachers/police/firemen to be there for you no?

Alienate these skilled trades too much you'll see them go over to agencies to boost their earnings and you'll be paying more.
#18
MBeeching
You can have a pay rise, I just don't want to pay for it... why should I?


aw go on ....please
#19
tinkerbell28
See you say that, but I am sure you want some decent nurses/dr's/teachers/police/firemen to be there for you no?

Alienate these skilled trades too much you'll see them go over to agencies to boost their earnings and you'll be paying more.


fire fighters we are now ...come on tinks get with the pc brigade:p
#20
ding
fire fighters we are now ...come on tinks get with the pc brigade:p


Oh I know I am always getting told of for that:p
#21
Yep great idea!

Give them a pay freeze and then when they can't pay their bills as the go up with inflation so they spend less money and then thousands more private sector jobs are lost as demand for goods and services goes down that wonderful downward spiral into deep recession and mass unemployment starts that will sort everything out.
banned#22
Plum
then when they can't pay their bills as the go up with inflation so they spend less money and then thousands more private sector jobs are lost as demand for goods and services goes down that wonderful downward spiral into deep recession and mass unemployment starts that will sort everything out.


Which is something you completely ignore when you talk about taxing the wealthy.

You have no interest in economics - you just want to settle your grudges with people you perceive to be 'better off'.

Quick - yell 'Thatcherite!!!'
#23
master_chief
Personally I don't think it's fair. A pay freeze is a pay cut.


Oh, and the rest of us who have had a pay cut (and when i say pay cut I don't mean a pay freeze) this year are supposed to sympathise with this?

Tough, I get less money than someone unemployed, but that's my choice, it just sickens me when people who are better off than me complain. Like the Teachers strike before the recession, complaining they were ~only~ getting a 2% pay rise, so they all went on strike. gits.
#24
FilthAndFurry;8642510
Which is something you completely ignore when you talk about taxing the wealthy.
You have no interest in economics - you just want to settle your grudges with people you perceive to be 'better off'.
Quick - yell 'Thatcherite!!!'

The wealthy don't spend their billions silly boy! That's another reason to take it away from them and put it to good use. :roll:

Bloody Thatcherites don't even understand basic economics. :thinking:
#25
As my college is about to make about 100 redundancies and has already made 50 'voluntary' reduncancies a pay freeze would be the least of my worries. Best pay rise I have had in the last 3 years was 1.5% anyway.

Dread to think of the state of FE in a couple of years and reckon the NHS and other services will go the same way.
#26
Think my payrise in the NHS was something like 2.2% this year and that's only because that was agreed on a 3 year fixed agreement and this year being the last part that was agreed.

I am only doing an admin job and from the looks of it their is a continued freeze on jobs so when anyone leaves etc they are not going to advertise the jobs so it will get a lot more busier but hopefully doing this may stop people being made redundant
banned#27
ding;8642254
nice attitude ....not

nice reasoning.....not :whistling:
#28
NFS
Think my payrise in the NHS was something like 2.2% this year and that's only because that was agreed on a 3 year fixed agreement and this year being the last part that was agreed.

I am only doing an admin job and from the looks of it their is a continued freeze on jobs so when anyone leaves etc they are not going to advertise the jobs so it will get a lot more busier but hopefully doing this may stop people being made redundant


My fiancees was about 1.85% this year in the NHS, and hers was not in her contract.
But also looks like possibly won't be the same next year, luckily she has a new position and does a few nights now so gets an enhanced rate which bumps it up.

I don't agree with public sector taking a pay freeze, unless private sectors do as well. It is a symboint relationship both need one another, and we all helped to get into this situation.
#29
MBeeching;8642217
I haven't had a pay rise or review in two years, why should my taxes pay for other people to get one?

It not the fault of public sector workers that you didn't fight for a pay rise. I suggest instead of blaming others if you have a problem with your pay you get organised into a union and fight for a pay rise.

All our bosses never ever go without. Even if they pretend to take a pay cut or freeze they always get it back through some fiddling. That's exactly how MP's expenses were used for years and companies have similar cheats.
#30
Plum
Bloody Thatcherites don't even understand basic economics. :thinking:


Find me an economist (an actual one with, you know, an education and stuff) that thinks Thatcher was bad for the economy and that your unique take on socialism is good for it...:whistling:

She made some rather questionable decisions, but the economy is one thing she understood very well.

Plum
All our bosses never ever go without.


Maybe, just maybe, they've worked hard to get there and earned it. If you didn't spend all day pontificating about it on the internet perhaps you'd progress up the chain to be someones boss one day. :thumbsup:
#31
megalomaniac


Maybe, just maybe, they've worked hard to get there and earned it. If you didn't spend all day pontificating about it on the internet perhaps you'd progress up the chain to be someones boss one day. :thumbsup:


LOL! When I was working, currently finishing my studies at the moment, but I use to be the worst for pondering the internet and messing around on the work floor. But I ended up with my own Team (only two teams in the company). :p

Then I wasted even more time doing 'administrative and other duties', which was then furthered when I took the position for their business relations which I closed down after 2 weeks and telling them it was a waste of my time, their time, their money and shut the thing down and then left. :-D
banned#32
splatsplatsplat
Oh, and the rest of us who have had a pay cut (and when i say pay cut I don't mean a pay freeze) this year are supposed to sympathise with this?

Tough, I get less money than someone unemployed, but that's my choice, it just sickens me when people who are better off than me complain. Like the Teachers strike before the recession, complaining they were ~only~ getting a 2% pay rise, so they all went on strike. gits.


I sympathise with anybody unfortunate to have had a pay cut or freeze, regardless of where the money comes from. I had my pay frozen for a year and missed out on a huge pay rise I was due but I'm not going to start saying "tough" to others too.
banned#33
Plum
The wealthy don't spend their billions silly boy! That's another reason to take it away from them and put it to good use. :roll:

Bloody Thatcherites don't even understand basic economics. :thinking:


Firstly, we really need to define what 'wealthy' actually is.

Secondly, you can't make blanket statements like that. Many 'wealthy' people have money tied up in investments.

Thirdly, congratulations on using the word 'Thatcherite' again. You're perhaps the only person who would ever describe me as that.:thumbsup:
banned#34
Plum
It not the fault of public sector workers that you didn't fight for a pay rise. I suggest instead of blaming others if you have a problem with your pay you get organised into a union and fight for a pay rise.

All our bosses never ever go without. Even if they pretend to take a pay cut or freeze they always get it back through some fiddling. That's exactly how MP's expenses were used for years and companies have similar cheats.


I'm someone's boss, and I also have a couple of 'bosses' and I can tell you that we have all had to 'go without' in one way or another.

Again, your ideology might sound plausible in your head but it has severe limitations when it comes to 'reality'.

Thatcherite (thought I'd save you some wear and tear on your keyboard).
#35
I am a public sector worker and we have not had a pay rise this year and we got 1% last year. Not sure why the public sector worker who said earlier that they had had a 25% rise over the last 3 years got that size rise but it must have been the result of a regrade or something because it certainly wan't through the normal inflationary process so it's irrelevant and irresponsible to mention it on this thread. All public sector workers get the same rise accross the board and 25% over the last 3 years is way off what was awarded. I personally am happy to accept a pay freeze and would do so for the next 2/3 years if it helps the economy. It may not have been the public sector that caused the financial crisis but it's all of our responsibilities to do what it takes to help it back on its feet and a pay freeze is nothing compared to all those who have lost their jobs as a result of it.
#36
megalomaniac;8642946
Find me an economist (an actual one with, you know, an education and stuff) that thinks Thatcher was bad for the economy and that your unique take on socialism is good for it...:whistling:

Oh dear, much surprised. Homework required. You seem to have such an economist within the coalition government. His name is V__ce C_ble.
Go on have a guess
http://howtomakeadifference.net/2009/01/vince-cable/
banned#37
sbeard1
I am a public sector worker and we have not had a pay rise this year and we got 1% last year. Not sure why the public sector worker who said earlier that they had had a 25% rise over the last 3 years got that size rise but it must have been the result of a regrade or something because it certainly wan't through the normal inflationary process so it's irrelevant and irresponsible to mention it on this thread. All public sector workers get the same rise accross the board and 25% over the last 3 years is way off what was awarded. I personally am happy to accept a pay freeze and would do so for the next 2/3 years if it helps the economy. It may not have been the public sector that caused the financial crisis but it's all of our responsibilities to do what it takes to help it back on its feet and a pay freeze is nothing compared to all those who have lost their jobs as a result of it.


The pay grades were restructured to reduce the number of different grades, they did this by increasing lower grades pay up over 3 years and holding everyone who had been there the longest back. You should know this having only got 1%. I'm due another pay rise in August, whether that comes now is another question. People who have just joined are on the same pay as me in August even though I have 8yrs service.
1 Like #38
A problem for the public sector is that in the good years their pay doesn't keep up with the private sector, and then in the bad years they get pay freezes and job loses. Over time what we have seen is a growing gap in private and public sector pay (at least for professionals). This is a disincentive to work in the public sector (esp' teaching and nursing, for example, both of which got into a mess a while back). Removing the pension provides another disincentive. The logic of the market is that if you pay more you get better people, so perhaps the question should be : 'are we happy to have the lowest paid people as teachers and nurses?'

And this isn't just an economic issue (I hate it when people assume that politics IS economics). We can have a fair society with a large and professional public sector if people are prepared to pay for it with taxes. But I see here on the forum the disconnect that people make between taxes and public services. You need to see taxes as 'collective spending' on things that are either for the 'public good' or best provided on a societal level. Taxes are good transport, education, police, hospitals. I see no reason not to still prioritise these even in a recession.

And that of course was the big problem with Thatcher. You might find a few economists who now question neo-liberalism, but you will find an awful lot of sociologists that despair at those polices.
banned#39
Paidia;8644501
A problem for the public sector is that in the good years their pay doesn't keep up with the private sector, and then in the bad years they get pay freezes and job loses. Over time what we have seen is a growing gap in private and public sector pay (at least for professionals). This is a disincentive to work in the public sector (esp' teaching and nursing, for example, both of which got into a mess a while back). Removing the pension provides another disincentive. The logic of the market is that if you pay more you get better people, so perhaps the question should be : 'are we happy to have the lowest paid people as teachers and nurses?'

And this isn't just an economic issue (I hate it when people assume that politics IS economics). We can have a fair society with a large and professional public sector if people are prepared to pay for it with taxes. But I see here on the forum the disconnect that people make between taxes and public services. You need to see taxes as 'collective spending' on things that are either for the 'public good' or best provided on a societal level. Taxes are good transport, education, police, hospitals. I see no reason not to still prioritise these even in a recession.

And that of course was the big problem with Thatcher. You might find a few economists who now question neo-liberalism, but you will find an awful lot of sociologists that despair at those polices.

I hope you are having a laugh suggesting that teachers & nurses are the lowest paid people! Get real man!
#40
csiman
I hope you are having a laugh suggesting that teachers & nurses are the lowest paid people! Get real man!


What's the alternative, if you don't keep the teachers/nurses sweet who cost 3 years in time and £££££££ to train, then they move to agencies. Work when they want as they want doubling their salary overnight.:santa:

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