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Sky+ Box and dispute over whether it's covered by Sale Of Goods Act

midjet666 Avatar
6y, 8m agoPosted 6 years, 8 months ago
Hiya,
I posted on here a few months back asking whether the Sky+ box was covered by the Sale of Goods Act and a lot of people agreed that it was. Well, I've been receiving loads of calls from Sky Insurance about extending the warranty and I keep refusing stating that I'm covered by this act. Every caller has argued that I'm not and a lot have slammed the phone down (I get them a few times a week, it feels like it's bordering on harrassment!) Anyway I emailed them the other day and complained that I kept receiving these calls and that as I refused the warranty, they argued with me and then slammed the phone down.

Today I received a call about my email and they said they would report them, and he stated that I wasn't covered by the act. He said he had asked his supervisors and they had stated that I wasn't too. So I asked that all the other retailers are covered by this act apart from Sky? He said I was in a 12 month contract where I had a 12 month warranty, but now I'm in a month to month contract and I don't have any warranty.

I'm quite angry to be honest, as how can Sky be the only company that isn't covered by this Act? Are they giving me a load of bull? Or are they genuinely somehow exempt?

Please let me know as I don't want to pay for a warranty that I don't need!!
Thanks in advance (and Happy Easter!) xxxxxxxxx
midjet666 Avatar
6y, 8m agoPosted 6 years, 8 months ago
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#1
As far as I know these calls aren't from sky - Sky must sell on our details to 3rd party repair companies.. I never see the point in these offers as sky will repair or replace your box for a fixed fee of about £60
#2
Captain Hook
As far as I know these calls aren't from sky - Sky must sell on our details to 3rd party repair companies.. I never see the point in these offers as sky will repair or replace your box for a fixed fee of about £60


Well Sky said they're from a company that they recommend (can't remember the company he said) and I emailed them through the Sky website so I think they are giving them our details.

I'd rather not pay £60 fixed fee when I paid a £30 connection fee which included the sky box and dish.
[mod]#3
You would be covered under the Sale of Goods Act 1979. I do believe though that you are firmly of the belief that if the box goes wrong then you can claim right away. Which isnt the case. You need to have a read through of the Act though and note the conditions in which you can try and bring a claim under the Act.

If, as you say, you are always covered under the SGA1979 then why the need for a warranty. This examples the fact that the SGA1979 is not the definitive warranty.

If you are up for the reading you might as well also read the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
banned#4
Is it covered by the Act? The reason I ask is I thought you didn't technically "own" the box and that it always remains the "property" of Sky?
[mod]#5
DanJackson
Is it covered by the Act? The reason I ask is I thought you didn't technically "own" the box and that it always remains the "property" of Sky?


It doesnt. The box is owned by you.
#6
magicjay1986
It doesnt. The box is owned by you.

after the initial 12 months contract yes
#7
magicjay1986
You would be covered under the Sale of Goods Act 1979. I do believe though that you are firmly of the belief that if the box goes wrong then you can claim right away. Which isnt the case. You need to have a read through of the Act though and note the conditions in which you can try and bring a claim under the Act.

If, as you say, you are always covered under the SGA1979 then why the need for a warranty. This examples the fact that the SGA1979 is not the definitive warranty.

If you are up for the reading you might as well also read the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.


To be honest I did believe that if the box went wrong you can claim. Although my box has been playing up for a few months. When I record programmes chunks of the volume goes mute, so you miss half a sentence. And there's been times, mainly over christmas, where I've recorded one programme and it says that it's clashed or it's missed the beginning of the programme. At the moment it seems to have corrected itself, so it may have been a kind of fault with the transmission?

I'll have a look at the consumer protection later on (when my kids go out so I can concentrate on it lol)
#8
tell them when it breaks down that you will go to a supplier that will give you a box fit to receive their signals thats what you pay your money for if it breaks ring sky tell them you want to cancel as the box is broke dont take the repair option £60 you want a new free box or cancel subs
#9
ninegt
tell them when it breaks down that you will go to a supplier that will give you a box fit to receive their signals thats what you pay your money for if it breaks ring sky tell them you want to cancel as the box is broke dont take the repair option £60 you want a new free box or cancel subs


That's what I thought. You're paying to receive TV programmes and the equipment I paid to view it through has gone faulty, so why should I pay for the subscription. I thought I was locked in another 12 month contract but it's month to month- you give 31 days notice
#10
midjet666;8284092
That's what I thought. You're paying to receive TV programmes and the equipment I paid to view it through has gone faulty, so why should I pay for the subscription. I thought I was locked in another 12 month contract but it's month to month- you give 31 days notice

thats what i did dont offer to pay for fitter to call and dont demand a new box just tell them you want to quit as the box is faulty and you can not afford the £60 also you can get a new cable box free GOOD LUCK
#11
ninegt
thats what i did dont offer to pay for fitter to call and dont demand a new box just tell them you want to quit as the box is faulty and you can not afford the £60 also you can get a new cable box free GOOD LUCK


Thanks, I'll have a look at it. If the box keeps playing up I'll do it. They won't want to lose £21 a month really when it costs them pittance for the box!!
#12
You are not covered by the Sale of Goods Act, because no " Sale " took place.

The Sky receiver was given to you for nothing after 12 months by Sky.
#13
Inactive
You are not covered by the Sale of Goods Act, because no " Sale " took place.

The Sky receiver was given to you for nothing after 12 months by Sky.


So it's the same for a phone contract too?

I paid £30 installation and equipment charge to begin with, which included the sky dish and the sky box?
#14
People get so confused as to what they are/not entitled to under SOGA, some think it's a 6 year free no quibbles warranty, it's not always as simple as asking/demadning a repair/refund and you shall get, it's far from it.

As MJ says I would read up on it tbh.
#15
tinkerbell28
People get so confused as to what they are/not entitled to under SOGA, some think it's a 6 year free no quibbles warranty, it's not always as simple as asking/demadning a repair/refund and you shall get, it's far from it.

As MJ says I would read up on it tbh.


I thought that if something was faulty a year or so after you bought it (not general wear & tear) then they replaced it so like if it's outside the warranty but only just sort of thing. So like I said about the sky box, it was saying "clashed" when I hadn't taped anything else, and there were missing parts of the dialogue which I couldn't have done anything to create these faults (to my knowledge). I thought that's why I'd be covered.

I mean recently my tumble dryer belt went and we've had the tumble dryer for about 2 years, but I knew that because I'd used it so much that I wouldn't be covered by the SOGA as it was general wear and tear.
#16
midjet666
I thought that if something was faulty a year or so after you bought it (not general wear & tear) then they replaced it so like if it's outside the warranty but only just sort of thing. So like I said about the sky box, it was saying "clashed" when I hadn't taped anything else, and there were missing parts of the dialogue which I couldn't have done anything to create these faults (to my knowledge). I thought that's why I'd be covered.

I mean recently my tumble dryer belt went and we've had the tumble dryer for about 2 years, but I knew that because I'd used it so much that I wouldn't be covered by the SOGA as it was general wear and tear.


You thought wrong then, it's not automatic and a given right at all. I have recently won a claim against a retailer under the SOGA, after my third fault in 9 months with my washer dryer, they still refused to replace it.

It got the final stage before small claims and they backed down, it was hard work and I had 3 faults in 9 months all of which had engineers reports to verify the machine was inherently faulty and the product was not (key word) durable.

After taking legal advice I felt very confident in my claim so pushed it, however at the end of the day, it's not as easy as saying oh it's broke I want a replacement, like you think it is, if the retailer refuses then you have to do a lot of the footwork yourself and if it gets to court, it's down to the interpretation of the act/scenario by the judge on the day.

The SOGA is not a guaranteed warranty of automatic repair/replacement like you think it is.
#17
You could try going via SOGA for a replacement but $ky are going to be in no hurry to comply and you might find yourself without a box for several months and then when it is all over you will have to go about claiming back all your unused rental etc. for the sake of your blood presure I would take one of the other options posted
#18
midjet666
So it's the same for a phone contract too?

I paid £30 installation and equipment charge to begin with, which included the sky dish and the sky box?


Read the Sky T&C's, and your contract, I think that you will find that you paid an installation fee only.

From Sky T&C's;

" One free box per household ".
#19
tinkerbell28
You thought wrong then, it's not automatic and a given right at all. I have recently won a claim against a retailer under the SOGA, after my third fault in 9 months with my washer dryer, they still refused to replace it.

It got the final stage before small claims and they backed down, it was hard work and I had 3 faults in 9 months all of which had engineers reports to verify the machine was inherently faulty and the product was not (key word) durable.

After taking legal advice I felt very confident in my claim so pushed it, however at the end of the day, it's not as easy as saying oh it's broke I want a replacement, like you think it is, if the retailer refuses then you have to do a lot of the footwork yourself and if it gets to court, it's down to the interpretation of the act/scenario by the judge on the day.

The SOGA is not a guaranteed warranty of automatic repair/replacement like you think it is.


Look, I came on here asking for advice, maybe I've read your response wrong but I feel very patronised by it. "You thought wrong.."

I'm not into all this legal mumbo jumbo, I don't understand it all as there's a lot of grey areas. That's why I asked for the advice. I said what I thought it meant but we all interpret things differently. Just like I thought the £30 connection fee included the charge of the box and dish.

I don't think it's a given right whatsoever, like I said about my tumble dryer, the belt had gone but I didn't think "Oh it's faulty" or "I'll claim it's faulty". I knew it was just from over-use and we bought a replacement belt.

At the end of the day, I'm paying £21 a month to Sky to provide me with a service where I can watch and record TV programmes. The equipment they provided me with is faulty as it's missing out part of the sound and not recording 2 programmes at the same time when it should (or even 1 programme and says it's "clashed"). I don't know how I could have created this fault.

I know things aren't made to last forever, but as far as I'm aware I can't just go and buy a replacement one from the shop. If it was my television that was at fault, then yes I'd have to go and replace it, but I was provided with the box by Sky to use as part of the service.

When you sign up with an internet provider, they give you a router as part of the service, if this goes wrong you can go and buy a new one. So what happens when your sky+ box goes wrong? I would have to pay £8.25 a month insurance which costs £99 a year. So on top of the £252 a year I pay to watch the programmes on the equipment I was provided with, I would have to pay extra in case their equipment went wrong.

http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/skyhelpcentre/services?nodeId=fc1d8634-1d46-4e6a-b453-b2c12c7bc4e6&articleId=9701

I would be quite happy to have a normal freeview box but you don't get the variety of the chidren's channels or the documentary channels we enjoy watching. Also, where we live, our aerial will only allow us to watch channels 1-5 (in bad quality), so we have to have a satellite dish. It's the same with Freesat, they have limited channels.

I don't think it's fair at all and I think it's a huge con,to have to pay a huge price for the extra channels, and then provide you with equipment that you cannot easily purchase/replace.
#20
Inactive
Read the Sky T&C's, and your contract, I think that you will find that you paid an installation fee only.

From Sky T&C's;

" One free box per household ".


I didn't see it and I don't know if they've re-worded it since I signed up. They make amendments to the T&C's quite a lot. Thank you for pointing it out though.
#21
midjet666
Look, I came on here asking for advice, maybe I've read your response wrong but I feel very patronised by it. "You thought wrong.."

I'm not into all this legal mumbo jumbo, I don't understand it all as there's a lot of grey areas. That's why I asked for the advice. I said what I thought it meant but we all interpret things differently. Just like I thought the £30 connection fee included the charge of the box and dish.

I don't think it's a given right whatsoever, like I said about my tumble dryer, the belt had gone but I didn't think "Oh it's faulty" or "I'll claim it's faulty". I knew it was just from over-use and we bought a replacement belt.

At the end of the day, I'm paying £21 a month to Sky to provide me with a service where I can watch and record TV programmes. The equipment they provided me with is faulty as it's missing out part of the sound and not recording 2 programmes at the same time when it should (or even 1 programme and says it's "clashed"). I don't know how I could have created this fault.

I know things aren't made to last forever, but as far as I'm aware I can't just go and buy a replacement one from the shop. If it was my television that was at fault, then yes I'd have to go and replace it, but I was provided with the box by Sky to use as part of the service.

When you sign up with an internet provider, they give you a router as part of the service, if this goes wrong you can go and buy a new one. So what happens when your sky+ box goes wrong? I would have to pay £8.25 a month insurance which costs £99 a year. So on top of the £252 a year I pay to watch the programmes on the equipment I was provided with, I would have to pay extra in case their equipment went wrong.

I don't think it's fair at all and I think it's a huge con,to have to pay a huge price for the extra channels, and then provide you with equipment that you cannot easily purchase/replace.


It wasn't patronising it was highlighting the fact you are wrong and the SOGA is not as straight forward as you think.

You should read it and get into the "legal mumbo jumbo" as if you did have a case against a stubborn retailer you would have to know what you are talking about.

You know the deal with SKY, if you don't like it, don't subscribe, you have a 1 year warranty that's that, and if it goes wrong after that then you have to pay for a replacement or repair, or barter with SKY for a new box, or cancel unless you make a claim under SOGA.

The latter is not as straightforward/guaranteed/simple as you think it is, oh I can just get a replacement if it goes belly up just outside the year, that's wrong. There is more too it than that and no guarantees.

You have had advice, yes you may be covered by SOGA, that does not guarantee you a replacement like you think necessarily oh and the illustration I gave you was for a product still within the 1st year and the hard time I had with that.
#22
midjet666
I didn't see it and I don't know if they've re-worded it since I signed up. They make amendments to the T&C's quite a lot. Thank you for pointing it out though.


To be honest, forget the Sale of Goods Act, it will not apply with Sky, your best bet is to just buy a used replacement unit from eBay should the need arise.
[mod]#23
Inactive
You are not covered by the Sale of Goods Act, because no " Sale " took place.

The Sky receiver was given to you for nothing after 12 months by Sky.


There was initial consideration which is needed. The installation fee and then the ongoing payments per month. As someone has already said, this would be the same with a mobile telephone.

I very much doubt a court would disagree with me. It would be incredibly unfair to exclude this from the contract. The Unfair Contract Terms Act would hopefully come in to play.
#24
ur paying for the service not box the box was free you paid for installation virgin own the box with sky you own the box
[mod]#25
csamual
ur paying for the service not box the box was free you paid for installation virgin own the box with sky you own the box


...but if the box is faulty you wouldnt be receiving a service, would you...
#26
Sky won't want to send a £300 per hour lawyer out to small claims court, so sue them, and take their out of court settlement.

A judge would see through their "free box" clap-trap in a heartbeat.
#27
thesaint
Sky won't want to send a £300 per hour lawyer out to small claims court, so sue them, and take their out of court settlement.

A judge would see through their "free box" clap-trap in a heartbeat.


No Sky can afford to send out a £300 per hour lawyer.. small companies might back down but sky will give you a fight to stop others doing the same thing


The bottom line is if you do go this way it is going to involve a lot of time, paperwork and effort to get a result when a simple polite phone call maybe all it needs
banned#28
magicjay1986
There was initial consideration which is needed. The installation fee and then the ongoing payments per month. As someone has already said, this would be the same with a mobile telephone.

I very much doubt a court would disagree with me. It would be incredibly unfair to exclude this from the contract. The Unfair Contract Terms Act would hopefully come in to play.


Agreed, however SOGA says the supplied item should last a reasonable time. It seems to be accepted that a £10 dvd player wouldn't be expected to last for as long as a £500 (as an example).
Considering the 12 month initial contract is now over, and the hardware was supplied free, do you not think a court would say a year to be reasonable?
#29
tinkerbell28
It wasn't patronising it was highlighting the fact you are wrong .


ha ha
#30
magicjay1986
...but if the box is faulty you wouldnt be receiving a service, would you...


thats why they offer extra cover :thumbsup:
[mod]#31
colinsunderland
Agreed, however SOGA says the supplied item should last a reasonable time. It seems to be accepted that a £10 dvd player wouldn't be expected to last for as long as a £500 (as an example).
Considering the 12 month initial contract is now over, and the hardware was supplied free, do you not think a court would say a year to be reasonable?


Lets disregard the court in this for one moment.

Do you consider 12 months to be a reasonable period?
[mod]#32
csamual
thats why they offer extra cover :thumbsup:


That does not matter. They cannot absolve themselves from the law because they offered you an extended warranty.
banned#33
magicjay1986
Lets disregard the court in this for one moment.

Do you consider 12 months to be a reasonable period?


for something that was free of charge? Possibly. I'm not sure I would be confident enough to argue it wasn't in court.
I wasn't trying to argue with you, just wondering what your view was.
#34
I was out of warranty when my Sky Box broke, so I threatened to cancel rather then paying the £60 call out fee, to which they responded that they would send out an engineer free of charge
#35
colinsunderland
for something that was free of charge? Possibly. I'm not sure I would be confident enough to argue it wasn't in court.
I wasn't trying to argue with you, just wondering what your view was.


Technically it's not free of charge. You pay a £30 "connection fee" yet if you just want to buy a standard box, the connection fee is £120, so I think they're just wording things so that they aren't covered by the SOGA and can sell a ridiculously high insurance. You can insure most items in your home for about £100 a year, so why does it cost £99 a year to cover a Sky + box?
#36
midjet666
Technically it's not free of charge. You pay a £30 "connection fee" yet if you just want to buy a standard box, the connection fee is £120, so I think they're just wording things so that they aren't covered by the SOGA and can sell a ridiculously high insurance. You can insure most items in your home for about £100 a year, so why does it cost £99 a year to cover a Sky + box?


It's not Sky offering the breakdown cover it's a 3rd party company - Sky offer a fix or replace service regardless of how old your box is for around £60 - which seems much better than taking out a cover plan for £100 which you might not use
#37
Not quite sure why you appear to be getting so worked up about someone offering a warranty.

Keep it simple - just decline politely. Why get involved in emailing over a problem that you have yet to experience?

From what I have read about this if your box breaks down just ring cancellations as you are paying for something that ain't gonna work. Chances are if you hold out and be polite they'll replace the box for free anyway. Or can you not just cancel it - wait a month then resubscribe?

Its amazing nowadays how many companies try to sell you insurance. Bought a sofa yesterday and rather than protect it with stainguard or whatever its called they now just sell you a policy. Same with a carpet I bought - policy covers you for anything it seems. (Google Homeserve accompanied by the word complaint to see how good they are). Believe the hype and you're going to be in for a shock when it comes to claim time:whistling:
[mod]#38
colinsunderland
for something that was free of charge? Possibly. I'm not sure I would be confident enough to argue it wasn't in court.
I wasn't trying to argue with you, just wondering what your view was.


I didnt think you were so dont worry.

Regardless of whether it is free, you need the box in order to benefit from the service that you are paying for. If the box goes wrong and you are out of warranty and every box has been ticked in the SOGA1979 then you can bring a claim against Sky under the Act.
#39
tinkerbell28
It wasn't patronising it was highlighting the fact you are wrong and the SOGA is not as straight forward as you think.

You should read it and get into the "legal mumbo jumbo" as if you did have a case against a stubborn retailer you would have to know what you are talking about.

You know the deal with SKY, if you don't like it, don't subscribe, you have a 1 year warranty that's that, and if it goes wrong after that then you have to pay for a replacement or repair, or barter with SKY for a new box, or cancel unless you make a claim under SOGA.

The latter is not as straightforward/guaranteed/simple as you think it is, oh I can just get a replacement if it goes belly up just outside the year, that's wrong. There is more too it than that and no guarantees.

You have had advice, yes you may be covered by SOGA, that does not guarantee you a replacement like you think necessarily oh and the illustration I gave you was for a product still within the 1st year and the hard time I had with that.


Well there are different ways to saying you are wrong- a patronising way and a way that actually helps someone out and shows them why they are wrong. I feel that you were patronising in your response and not helpful.

It's easy to say get into the legal mumbo jumbo if you understand it all- I don't understand it. I'm asking for help and asking whether they are exempt or is it- which is what I believe- that they have worded their advert cleverly so they can say they are offering a service which you pay monthly for, but the box is basically a free gift! Like my example before with the internet, you can buy a router from a shop, some quite reasonably priced, yet you cannot buy a sky+ box in a shop. Yes you can buy it second hand, but you could still end up with a fault on it if bought and wasting your money.

I didn't know the deal with Sky when I subscribed. I assumed that as I was paying for a service from them that the equipment would be covered as part of this service. Why else would I pay £21 for extra channels? Yes I could cancel the subscription which I am inclined to do, but I wouldn't be able to watch any television as I stated in my other post my aerial only picks up 1-5 and they are bad quality. I enjoy watching the channels that I subscribe to, I'm just angry that the equipment that I'm provided with isn't working properly.

The thing is you say I've had advice, there's 2 sides of it- one is that it's "free" so isn't covered, but then the other side is that I'm paying for a service and it's not being provided.

When I first posted back in january (when you hadn't looked into it) http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/594665/sales-of-goods-act-query? you were saying
"choc1969:
What a bunch of BS, Sky provide the package and have to surely obey by UK SoG law
^^^^^^^^^^This

Wait are you sure it's actually sky though? We get these calls all the time from people actually pretending to be sky, it's against the law and been on wtachdog, they still do it."

So when I'm asking for advice, I thought maybe someone could point out a specific part of the act and say "this is the reason why" not "you're wrong" and that's it!!
#40
pluves1
Not quite sure why you appear to be getting so worked up about someone offering a warranty.

Keep it simple - just decline politely. Why get involved in emailing over a problem that you have yet to experience?

From what I have read about this if your box breaks down just ring cancellations as you are paying for something that ain't gonna work. Chances are if you hold out and be polite they'll replace the box for free anyway. Or can you not just cancel it - wait a month then resubscribe?

Its amazing nowadays how many companies try to sell you insurance. Bought a sofa yesterday and rather than protect it with stainguard or whatever its called they now just sell you a policy. Same with a carpet I bought - policy covers you for anything it seems. (Google Homeserve accompanied by the word complaint to see how good they are). Believe the hype and you're going to be in for a shock when it comes to claim time:whistling:


I do decline politely and they ask why as my box won't be covered if it breaks down, and I say I don't want to pay X amount a month for it and then they carry on saying it'd be worth it etc and I say well I'm covered by the SOGA and then starts the arguing. They respond that I'm not, and I say I am as I've checked on the internet (checked meant looking on google and seeing a lot of people saying that I am, and when I asked on here, again they said I were.) and then they slam the phone down on me. I'm getting calls a few times a week and I've asked them before to stop calling and they don't, they just continue. So in the end I emailed Sky as I was sick of keep having phone calls. Usually if it's a dodgy company they withheld the number but this is always an 0800 number so I'm assuming it's definitely them. And they're always British callers (Irish/English/Scottish) so I know it's not a dodgy call centre in India who put on a fake american accent.

I am going to see about calling the cancellation section and seeing if they will replace my box that way. I didn't think of doing it that way, so I will try it in the next few days.

I am 99.9% of the time polite. I do get worked up with these phone calls from Sky as like I said it's a few times a week. If it was once a month it wouldn't be half as bad!

The first thing they say is "We're phoning up to extend your warranty on your Sky + box" Not would you like it extended, it's you are having it extended and when I decline they get argumentative- like they're losing their work bonus so will bully me into the warranty.

If people are polite to me, then I'm always polite in return, but if I think they're being rude then I just lose my temper. I like to be treated as I treat others.

So yeah, the reason why I'm getting worked up is because I don't know where I stand. I don't understand the whole Act. I obviously interpreted it wrong, and I'm hoping someone who knows it will explain if I am or aren't covered but everyone's putting their opinions across without saying "This part of the act shows you are(n't) covered.."

I mean Tinkerbell and a few others are saying I'm not, and I can understand the whole thing of not paying for the box so technically there was no sale of the actual box.
But then there's the other side of the argument which is that I'm paying for a service and the equipment i've been given to use that service isn't working, so the service isn't being provided.

So I really am confused! But yes, after going round the houses, I will go down the cancellation route to see if I can get a new box!!!

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