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small claims hearing

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banned6y, 1m agoPosted 6 years, 1 month ago
I am an appellant in a small claims against a contractor for work not completed and poor workmanship.

In previous correspondence to the contractor I wrote I will get a quote from a surveyor, but when the time came I could simply not afford to so I continued with the claim. Also, I was hoping he will contact me so that we can go halves on the cost of the surveyor or settle out of court.

Firstly, I want to know as far as law is concerned is it a must that a surveyor is done, and for this reason I will lose from the outset that this hasnt been done?

Secondly, will it go against me that I said I will get one, and now haven't?

Lastly, any tips for the hearing?

Thank you
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banned6y, 1m agoPosted 6 years, 1 month ago
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#1
is the surveyor quote to cover the cost of the repair work?

You havn't really given enough detail. I wouldn't have thought the court will be too impressed with you if you havn't completed necessary steps
banned 1 Like #2
Yes the surveyor would do an independent report of what needs doing with costs.
banned 1 Like #4
Its not part of the necessary steps to get a surveyors report, but is good evidence, I simply could not afford to do this and he didn't contact me till after a few weeks I filed the claim and I gave the work to another contractor as I wanted the house done.
banned#5
so its your word against theirs then with no surveyors report.

you will lose with no independent evidence
#6


right, well its not really ideal but probably won't defeat your claim at the offset. What is the value of the claim?
#7
csiman
so its your word against theirs then with no surveyors report.

you will lose with no independent evidence


I think hes trying to state that the surveyors report is relevant only to determining the value of the claim.

He must have other evidence
#8
Agreed with csiman.

You need proper substantiation. You need reports from 3rd parties.

The court will award in their favour and as the max limit is £3k, Dont be surprised if the court awards £3k to the contractor and you have to pay out.

Jees. Madness.
banned#9
Need more background on this....how much was your quote for the work?
how much have you paid?
what work was/was not completed?
How much have you had to pay the new builder to complete the work to the same specification?
how much are you claiming?
Why did the first builder not finish the job?
How long after he left did you leave it before employing the new builder?
Do you have any written agreements?
On what grounds does the first builder intend to defend the claim?
banned#10
roryk83
csiman
so its your word against theirs then with no surveyors report.

you will lose with no independent evidence


I think hes trying to state that the surveyors report is relevant only to determining the value of the claim.

He must have other evidence

your guess is as good as mine. Just hope OP has more facts to present than we've been given ;)
#11
slamdunkin
Need more background on this....how much was your quote for the work?
how much have you paid?
what work was/was not completed?
How much have you had to pay the new builder to complete the work to the same specification?
how much are you claiming?
Why did the first builder not finish the job?
How long after he left did you leave it before employing the new builder?
Do you have any written agreements?
On what grounds does the first builder intend to defend the claim?


+1
#12
hippyharry
Agreed with csiman.

You need proper substantiation. You need reports from 3rd parties.

The court will award in their favour and as the max limit is £3k, Dont be surprised if the court awards £3k to the contractor and you have to pay out.

Jees. Madness.


not necessarily. Depends on the strength of evidence and behaviour of the defendant in the proceedings.

If expert evidence is required in a small claims case the court will almost certainly give special directions so that the parties know how to go about finding and instructing an expert. Looks like the Defendent didn't comply with this instruction

Edited By: roryk83 on Nov 01, 2010 11:59: correction
banned#13
hippyharry
Agreed with csiman.You need proper substantiation. You need reports from 3rd parties. The court will award in their favour and as the max limit is £3k, Dont be surprised if the court awards £3k to the contractor and you have to pay out.Jees. Madness.

what on earth are you talking about....this is the SCC where costs are capped....the judge will only give costs above the capped rates to the defendant if the claimant has made a vexatious claim or caused the defendant unnecessary legal work in defending the case. You are also assuming that the defendant complied with all pre action protocol before the OP commenced with the claim.

Edited By: slamdunkin on Nov 01, 2010 12:20: .
banned#14
hippyharry
Agreed with csiman.

You need proper substantiation. You need reports from 3rd parties.

The court will award in their favour and as the max limit is £3k, Dont be surprised if the court awards £3k to the contractor and you have to pay out.

Jees. Madness.


I disagree
I very much doubt the court will award expenses of £3k to the builder, no idea where you get this info from.
Also, not having the report is far from ideal, but the estimate and invoice from the builder who did the work might suffice.
Certainly wouldn't say the claim was over and he will lose.
banned#15
brb spamming your email address
banned 1 Like #16
11k was the total for contract of which £250 was outstanding, I paid more than I should have at each stage as he would be saying I'm not going to complete as he has no money or pay his workers.

Work left was complete extension, flag stones, drains, damp course.n fit soffits and more.

I have photos, inspectors reports, witness statements, and two builders invoices of which one I used to complete work.

He just stopped turning up and recently in a phone conversation he said he took on too much work and could not complete a few peoples work.

Claim is 5k, and iv paid over 5k now to complete.
banned#17
11k was the total for contract of which £250 was outstanding, I paid more than I should have at each stage as he would be saying I'm not going to complete as he has no money or pay his workers.

Work left was complete extension, flag stones, drains, damp course.n fit soffits and more.

I have photos, inspectors reports, witness statements, and two builders invoices of which one I used to complete work.

He just stopped turning up and recently in a phone conversation he said he took on too much work and could not complete a few peoples work.

Claim is 5k, and iv paid over 5k now to complete.

thats more like it. Looks as though you have a solid case so wouldnt think a surveyors report mentioned in 1 letter should make any difference. Doubt the defendant will even bring it up.
banned#18
Include bank statements to verify that you have paid him and on what Dates.

when is the case.
banned 1 Like #19
Good point I'll get bank statements. I also got the new builder to sign when I paid him so I have that too.
#20
op we've just sued our builder and won via the courts, if you dont have remedial work estimates at least 3, full surveyors report, receipts of your builder, the contract you BOTH entered into and photo evidence AND A GOOD solicitor you wont stand a chance in hell of winning!

its taken us 4 long costly years to get this to court . we started out with suing to replace our windows and doors as non of them worked properly, non of them locked properly, double glazing est was only 5K, then the first surveyor came round and it jumped to over 10K argued a lot with the builder gave him loads of options like doing the work, paying somone else to do the work, then we found out our surveyor had worked for our builder so we had to change and start again. now this is the worst part the new guy found over £50K worth of defects so then it had to go to crown court ( theres a special department that deals with this) 4 years later we finally had everything we needed to win. the list above and the builder settled out of court.
you need all this evidence to give to the judge and your builders solicitor as you have to be fully open about what you are doing/getting.
if you need any help hun pm me
#21
oh yes and postpone your court date!
as youve already paid your guy over £5k you will need a solicitor to go to court with you, £5k is the limit for this type of court case hun

Edited By: vinylandtrinkets on Nov 01, 2010 13:46: added to
banned#22
she is only claiming 5k which can be done in the SCC and she doesn't need a solicitor as the SCC is for the lay man and the judge will guide her through the case.
banned#23
vinylandtrinkets
op we've just sued our builder and won via the courts, if you dont have remedial work estimates at least 3, full surveyors report, receipts of your builder, the contract you BOTH entered into and photo evidence AND A GOOD solicitor you wont stand a chance in hell of winning!

its taken us 4 long costly years to get this to court . we started out with suing to replace our windows and doors as non of them worked properly, non of them locked properly, double glazing est was only 5K, then the first surveyor came round and it jumped to over 10K argued a lot with the builder gave him loads of options like doing the work, paying somone else to do the work, then we found out our surveyor had worked for our builder so we had to change and start again. now this is the worst part the new guy found over £50K worth of defects so then it had to go to crown court ( theres a special department that deals with this) 4 years later we finally had everything we needed to win. the list above and the builder settled out of court.
you need all this evidence to give to the judge and your builders solicitor as you have to be fully open about what you are doing/getting.
if you need any help hun pm me

has the builder paid up yet? Seems pretty common for defendants to ignore SCC rulings and not pay up (judging by watchdog lol)
#24
slamdunkin
she is only claiming 5k which can be done in the SCC and she doesn't need a solicitor as the SCC is for the lay man and the judge will guide her through the case.


yes i know but it all depends on what her surveyor is going to say?
banned#25
csiman
vinylandtrinkets
op we've just sued our builder and won via the courts, if you dont have remedial work estimates at least 3, full surveyors report, receipts of your builder, the contract you BOTH entered into and photo evidence AND A GOOD solicitor you wont stand a chance in hell of winning!its taken us 4 long costly years to get this to court . we started out with suing to replace our windows and doors as non of them worked properly, non of them locked properly, double glazing est was only 5K, then the first surveyor came round and it jumped to over 10K argued a lot with the builder gave him loads of options like doing the work, paying somone else to do the work, then we found out our surveyor had worked for our builder so we had to change and start again. now this is the worst part the new guy found over £50K worth of defects so then it had to go to crown court ( theres a special department that deals with this) 4 years later we finally had everything we needed to win. the list above and the builder settled out of court.you need all this evidence to give to the judge and your builders solicitor as you have to be fully open about what you are doing/getting.if you need any help hun pm me
has the builder paid up yet? Seems pretty common for defendants to ignore SCC rulings and not pay up (judging by watchdog lol)

The builder settled out of court
#26
csiman
vinylandtrinkets
op we've just sued our builder and won via the courts, if you dont have remedial work estimates at least 3, full surveyors report, receipts of your builder, the contract you BOTH entered into and photo evidence AND A GOOD solicitor you wont stand a chance in hell of winning!

its taken us 4 long costly years to get this to court . we started out with suing to replace our windows and doors as non of them worked properly, non of them locked properly, double glazing est was only 5K, then the first surveyor came round and it jumped to over 10K argued a lot with the builder gave him loads of options like doing the work, paying somone else to do the work, then we found out our surveyor had worked for our builder so we had to change and start again. now this is the worst part the new guy found over £50K worth of defects so then it had to go to crown court ( theres a special department that deals with this) 4 years later we finally had everything we needed to win. the list above and the builder settled out of court.
you need all this evidence to give to the judge and your builders solicitor as you have to be fully open about what you are doing/getting.
if you need any help hun pm me

has the builder paid up yet? Seems pretty common for defendants to ignore SCC rulings and not pay up (judging by watchdog lol)


yes hun finally 29 days late with the house sale and he kicked off about us not moving out quick enough lol then we finally got the interest payment a month ago and had a wonderful time spending it on holidays in Orlando LOL, he is a nasty bit of work though now keeping a diary of what he does when he sees me in town or when he parks out the front of the house , the threats and hes been warned by the police twice to back off
banned#27
She's not using a surveyor....and with all due respect, you didn't use the SCC to resolve your claim.

The whole idea of the SCC is to make good any loss....their is a simple rule in legal disputes that solicitors don't like to tell their clients and that is "less is more"
#28
slamdunkin
She's not using a surveyor....and with all due respect, you didn't use the SCC to resolve your claim.

The whole idea of the SCC is to make good any loss....their is a simple rule in legal disputes that solicitors don't like to tell their clients and that is "less is more"

yes and the op paid out £11k so that is her total loss to date as the work isnt fit for purpose/poor workmanship/ breach of contract
once she has a surveyor and he may find more then your looking at recouping his costs also.
banned#29
But OP doesn't wont to claim more and push the case up the legal system and incure more costs....and she is claiming for work not done, not bad quality work/workmanship.

this is a simple breach of contract and she wishes to claim 5k
banned#30
vinylandtrinkets

yes and the op paid out £11k so that is her total loss to date as the work isnt fit for purpose/poor workmanship/ breach of contract
once she has a surveyor and he may find more then your looking at recouping his costs also.


Her total loss is exactly what is said on the tin. Total loss. If it's cost her £5k to put right then she can't claim £11k.
Even if it's over £5k it can still go through small claims. Not sure why you think the claim should be postponed?
banned#31
Because she paid a solicitor who postponed at every opportunity as he made more money so she thinks this is the norm

Edited By: slamdunkin on Nov 01, 2010 14:11: .
#32
colinsunderland
vinylandtrinkets

yes and the op paid out £11k so that is her total loss to date as the work isnt fit for purpose/poor workmanship/ breach of contract
once she has a surveyor and he may find more then your looking at recouping his costs also.


Her total loss is exactly what is said on the tin. Total loss. If it's cost her £5k to put right then she can't claim £11k.
Even if it's over £5k it can still go through small claims. Not sure why you think the claim should be postponed?


its needs to be postponed so she can get reports/estimates . if she goes to court with nothing to prove the work isnt completed or to a poor standard then she will leave the court with nothing, how can anyone claim in small claims court for something that they have little or no proof of what is defective, faulty,poor standards.

slamdunkin my solicitor didnt postpone my case once it just takes a long time to deal with these things, lots of arguing back and forth between us , the builder, solicitors, surveryors, site visits

Edited By: vinylandtrinkets on Nov 01, 2010 14:15: added to
banned 1 Like #33
She has already said

I have photos, inspectors reports, witness statements, and two builders invoices of which one I used to complete work.


That is more than enough for a small claim. What other proof do you think she is going to get now after the work has been completed?

How did your case go to the crown court? Thats criminal is it not? Do you not mean the high court, maybe based in a crown court building?

Edited By: colinsunderland on Nov 01, 2010 14:17: x
banned#34
defective, faulty,poor standards.

Have you even read the thread?

she is claiming for work not completed...the fact she needed a new builder to complete the work that she was originally quoted for other evadance and witness statements this should be sufficient.

A district judge does not expect a lay person to conduct a case in the same way as the high court....surveyors report may have been a benefit, but if OP explains that she simply could not afford one he will see that is probable grounds for not having one.
#35
colinsunderland
She has already said

I have photos, inspectors reports, witness statements, and two builders invoices of which one I used to complete work.


That is more than enough for a small claim. What other proof do you think she is going to get now after the work has been completed?

How did your case go to the crown court? Thats criminal is it not? Do you not mean the high court, maybe based in a crown court building?


sorry missed that bit in her post. hopefully it will be enough proof
no our solicitor and barrister had to wear robes and wigs to the first court date in the crown court building in Cardiff, we sat there with all the other people in court that day , wasnt very nice let me tell you. we never made it to the second as our guy settled out of court
banned#36
That was a high court committal or preliminary hearing.
#37
slamdunik Im not being funny here so please dont take this the wrong way . the information the OP had posted on here the reports she has photos etc i simply dont think is enough for her to win, this is going off whats happened to us over the last 4 years, when we thought it was just the windows to our house we still had to have the surveyor to prove that even though we had replacement estimates and reports of double glazers, at that time it was going to Small claims court and we still need it all to go before the " judge"
banned 1 Like #38
Small claims court is a rather casual affair made over complicated by many....your case sounds totally different to OP's so I can't see why your experience is any use to hers.

Does OP want to wait for years for a larger payout? Can she afford to wait that long?

the thing is when you get 2 excellent really good fandabbydozy solicitors into the high court....one of them is going to loose...but both will still be paid.
#39
slamdunkin
Small claims court is a rather casual affair made over complicated by many....your case sounds totally different to OP's so I can't see why your experience is any use to hers.

Does OP want to wait for years for a larger payout? Can she afford to wait that long?

the thing is when you get 2 excellent really good fandabbydozy solicitors into the high court....one of them is going to loose...but both will still be paid.

your right there, they get paid a lot! our cases are the same in theory its just op was lucky enough to be able to afford to fix her problems , we couldnt at the time and as time wore on the problems got worse.
now she just wants the money she had paid to her new guy and fingers crossed she'll get it.
banned#40
JB after you sent off you particulars of claim, did the court forward you the defendants response "notice that a defence has been filed"?

If so on what grounds does he wish to defend the claim.

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