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Solving the problems with prisons

JonnyTwoToes Avatar
banned5y, 5m agoPosted 5 years, 5 months ago
The Sentencing and Legal Aid Bill will be announced today but my guess is they won't be the drastic reforms we need.

It costs £45k to house 'the average' prisoner a year.

Some are calling for prisoners to serve their sentence in the community which will cost no more than £10k a year.

Some are calling for those who plead guilty to have their sentences cut by half.

Both will save money but, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't sentences for prisoners meant to serve as a punishment as well as a way to rehabilitate?

The actual answer is for people to simply stop committing crime - so it is far more important to look at how kids are being raised and in what environments. What role models do young kids have?

For the interim, in terms of punishment, I'll stick to the idea of offenders having a certain amount of time in the armed forces to earn a little respect.

Any other ideas?
JonnyTwoToes Avatar
banned5y, 5m agoPosted 5 years, 5 months ago
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banned#1
Privatise the prison system innit JTT.
banned#2
master_chief
Privatise the prison system innit JTT.


Why didn't I think of that...... :D
1 Like #3
Death camps ftw.
1 Like #4
judge: brah u iz guilty
defendent: o rly?
judge: ya
defendant: oh noez
judge: http://oceanstatecannabis.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/slide_gun-300x157.jpg
2 Likes #5
Gladiator tournaments with varying ticket costs depending on seating, sky to pay for rights and make it pay-per-view... Just a thought
1 Like #6
I THINK THAT PARTOF THE ANSWER IS FOR CRIMINALS TO HAVE TO PAY THE COST OF THE SENTENCE THEMSELVES. SO IF THEY ARE BANGED YUP FOR 10 YEARS, THATS £450K THEY OWE. SO THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY THAT OFF BEFORE THEY GET ANY BENEFITS. IT WOULD ALSO MEAN THAT ANY PRPERTIES THEY OWN WOULD HAVE TO BE SOLD OFF TO PAY THIS. PAYING FOR THEIR SENTENCE IN FULL. PERHAPS THEY COULD START PAYING IT OFF WHILE THEY ARE BANGED UP... LIKE THEY USED TO DO IN THE USA BY MAKING VEHICLE REGISTRATION NUMBERS.

MORE MONEY FOR GOVT, LESS MONEY COR CRIMINALS. LESS INCOME TAX REQUIRED TO BE TAKEN FROM HARD WORKERS. JOB DONE.
1 Like #7
Personally I don't agree with prison being for just rehabilitation, it's also in my mind supposed to be about punishment. If we don't have enough prisons to house offenders then let's build more. If that costs money then pay the money.

If you get a 5 year sentence then you should spend 5 years in prison, 2 years hard labour and then 3 years rehab. Your incentive for good behaviour is that you will get out in 5 years (and not have time added) and that you won't have hard labour added to the two years.

For a fair proportion of offenders prison is a country club, a lot of them are institutionalised when young so it holds little or no fear.

I just don't get being soft on crime in order to save cash, it sends out completely the wrong message. We need to realise that you're not going to stop some reoffending no matter what you do but making the time in prison harder I believe will put a lot off.
banned#8
Send them to Leicester. I couldn't think of a worse punishment.
#9
Does no one else think 45k a year per prisoner is a joke? I saw a doc on tv a few weeks ago about Castlebeek care home, and it casually mentioned that it costs the taxpayer £3500 per week per patient.

We need to look at running these places with some degree of financial accountability.
#10
profet
Does no one else think 45k a year per prisoner is a joke? I saw a doc on tv a few weeks ago about Castlebeek care home, and it casually mentioned that it costs the taxpayer £3500 per week per patient.

We need to look at running these places with some degree of financial accountability.


Well considering it costs $47k to house a prisoner in California I think we could do with looking first at what they are doing. I'm not saying that their system works, but it's cheaper.

http://www.lao.ca.gov/laoapp/laomenus/sections/crim_justice/6_cj_inmatecost.aspx?catid=3
3 Likes #11
The elderly are forced to sell their homes to be put in care homes...make prisoners do the same! Put the prisoners in the care homes, and the elderly in the prisons. I guarantee the elderly would have more facilities and wouldn't be treated badly!
#12
How can a prisoner serve his sentence in the community?
1 Like #13
simplex
Gladiator tournaments with varying ticket costs depending on seating, sky to pay for rights and make it pay-per-view... Just a thought


The running man I'd pay to watch that.
#14
Treat them like the criminals that they are, no TV, bread and water, that should cut the cost down.

Or as above they could have a Running Man type reality show where the winner gets a decent meal (No extra cost as I'm sure sponsorship would cover it).
banned#15
Most criminals won't have hardly a penny to their name so I'd imagine the cost in chasing and admin to recover the prison "fee" wouldn't be worthwhile.

There is already something similarish in the proceeds of crime thingamabob.
#16
when ive watched americas toughest prisons it makes ours look like holiday camps, im probably wrong but they should bring in the death penalty as if they had the death penalty here i think i would think twice about commiting a serious crime. people get away lightly here. it wouldnt cost so much if they were just stuck in a cell with nothing like they should be.
[helper]#17
I think the Tories already tried "boot" camps................and I would have thought todays modern military wouldn't want them anyway.

For some crimes I think the Ken Clarke idea was a practical option for reducing the prison population and decreasing court costs....

Edited By: gari189 on Jun 21, 2011 08:23
banned#18
There is always the option of a modern day chain gang. I know the human rights activists will have something to say about it but in my opinion, you do something worthy of a prison sentence, you give up your human rights for the amount of time your being punished.

I know of a lot of fields that need ploughing. Farmers can't afford labour these days with out subsidies from the government so that will solve two problems in one go.
banned#19
gari189
I think the Tories already tried "boot" camps................

For some crimes I think the Ken Clarke idea was a practical option for reducing the prison population and decreasing court costs....


Like most Tories, I was opposed to this idea from the start. You can't put a price on justice.
banned 2 Likes #20
Prisoners should be made to work within the prisons. It would make them of some use to society as well as assist with rehabilitation as they'd get experience working and be more adjusted for normal life when they come out. And if some stupid EU law is out that says they can't work work without pay then pay them minimum wage and charge them for the accommadation so they end up getting nothing for it
banned#21
master_chief
Most criminals won't have hardly a penny to their name so I'd imagine the cost in chasing and admin to recover the prison "fee" wouldn't be worthwhile.

There is already something similarish in the proceeds of crime thingamabob.


What about implementing a system like they have with university students? Charge them an annual fee AFTER they have come out of prison - a percentage of their wages/benefits until the fee is paid.
banned#22
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
Most criminals won't have hardly a penny to their name so I'd imagine the cost in chasing and admin to recover the prison "fee" wouldn't be worthwhile.

There is already something similarish in the proceeds of crime thingamabob.

What about implementing a system like they have with university students? Charge them an annual fee AFTER they have come out of prison - a percentage of their wages/benefits until the fee is paid.

Yep cos they'll get legit jobs for that won't they. The choice between honest pay being deducted or pay througn criminal means without deduction? I wonder which they'd choose?
banned#23
master_chief
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
Most criminals won't have hardly a penny to their name so I'd imagine the cost in chasing and admin to recover the prison "fee" wouldn't be worthwhile.

There is already something similarish in the proceeds of crime thingamabob.


What about implementing a system like they have with university students? Charge them an annual fee AFTER they have come out of prison - a percentage of their wages/benefits until the fee is paid.


Yep cos they'll get legit jobs for that won't they. The choice between honest pay being deducted or pay througn criminal means without deduction? I wonder which they'd choose?


I'm talking about having a set fee regardless of earnings. They will HAVE to get out there and get a job.
#24
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
Most criminals won't have hardly a penny to their name so I'd imagine the cost in chasing and admin to recover the prison "fee" wouldn't be worthwhile.

There is already something similarish in the proceeds of crime thingamabob.


What about implementing a system like they have with university students? Charge them an annual fee AFTER they have come out of prison - a percentage of their wages/benefits until the fee is paid.


Yep cos they'll get legit jobs for that won't they. The choice between honest pay being deducted or pay througn criminal means without deduction? I wonder which they'd choose?


I'm talking about having a set fee regardless of earnings. They will HAVE to get out there and get a job.


a job as in..... mugging people, breaking into houses and becoming an estate agent?
banned#25
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
Most criminals won't have hardly a penny to their name so I'd imagine the cost in chasing and admin to recover the prison "fee" wouldn't be worthwhile.

There is already something similarish in the proceeds of crime thingamabob.

What about implementing a system like they have with university students? Charge them an annual fee AFTER they have come out of prison - a percentage of their wages/benefits until the fee is paid.

Yep cos they'll get legit jobs for that won't they. The choice between honest pay being deducted or pay througn criminal means without deduction? I wonder which they'd choose?

I'm talking about having a set fee regardless of earnings. They will HAVE to get out there and get a job.

What about all those without criminal records who struggle to get a job? Are we going to give criminals guaranteed work after release?
#26
JonnyTwoToes
I know of a lot of fields that need ploughing. Farmers can't afford labour these days with out subsidies from the government so that will solve two problems in one go.


There go a load of agricultural workers to the dole queue. A whole new set of future criminals in the making. Give it a few years and they will be back in the same fields just with a change of clothes.
#27
simplex
Gladiator tournaments with varying ticket costs depending on seating, sky to pay for rights and make it pay-per-view... Just a thought


Death race much..?
#28
another thread of well thought out and insightful arguments :|
banned#29
Plum
JonnyTwoToes
I know of a lot of fields that need ploughing. Farmers can't afford labour these days with out subsidies from the government so that will solve two problems in one go.



There go a load of agricultural workers to the dole queue. A whole new set of future criminals in the making. Give it a few years and they will be back in the same fields just with a change of clothes.


Got an answer Plum or are you going to throw problems from the sideline as per usual?
#30
roryk83
another thread of well thought out and insightful arguments :|


Good to see you adding to that then.
banned#31
master_chief
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
Most criminals won't have hardly a penny to their name so I'd imagine the cost in chasing and admin to recover the prison "fee" wouldn't be worthwhile.

There is already something similarish in the proceeds of crime thingamabob.


What about implementing a system like they have with university students? Charge them an annual fee AFTER they have come out of prison - a percentage of their wages/benefits until the fee is paid.


Yep cos they'll get legit jobs for that won't they. The choice between honest pay being deducted or pay througn criminal means without deduction? I wonder which they'd choose?


I'm talking about having a set fee regardless of earnings. They will HAVE to get out there and get a job.


What about all those without criminal records who struggle to get a job? Are we going to give criminals guaranteed work after release?


This is where the rehabilitation comes in. Why not give them a choice of several vocations, similar to the old YTS. They drop out, they lose their benefits.
banned#32
roryk83
another thread of well thought out and insightful arguments :|


Just suggestions really. Not got anything to add?
banned#33
JonnyTwoToes
Plum
JonnyTwoToes
I know of a lot of fields that need ploughing. Farmers can't afford labour these days with out subsidies from the government so that will solve two problems in one go.


There go a load of agricultural workers to the dole queue. A whole new set of future criminals in the making. Give it a few years and they will be back in the same fields just with a change of clothes.

Got an answer Plum or are you going to throw problems from the sideline as per usual?

Does he have to? Don't know if you've gathered but on a forum, people make points, for others to pull apart.
2 Likes #34
JonnyTwoToes
Got an answer Plum or are you going to throw problems from the sideline as per usual?

I suspect you would find my answer "unrealistic". Then you and FF get all annoyed with me and it just creates bad vibes. I would not want to do that to such a pleasant and thoughtful thread.
banned#35
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
JonnyTwoToes
master_chief
Most criminals won't have hardly a penny to their name so I'd imagine the cost in chasing and admin to recover the prison "fee" wouldn't be worthwhile.

There is already something similarish in the proceeds of crime thingamabob.

What about implementing a system like they have with university students? Charge them an annual fee AFTER they have come out of prison - a percentage of their wages/benefits until the fee is paid.

Yep cos they'll get legit jobs for that won't they. The choice between honest pay being deducted or pay througn criminal means without deduction? I wonder which they'd choose?

I'm talking about having a set fee regardless of earnings. They will HAVE to get out there and get a job.

What about all those without criminal records who struggle to get a job? Are we going to give criminals guaranteed work after release?

This is where the rehabilitation comes in. Why not give them a choice of several vocations, similar to the old YTS. They drop out, they lose their benefits.

Can we give the same level of training guaranteed for every unemployed person in the country?
#36
Plum

There go a load of agricultural workers to the dole queue. A whole new set of future criminals in the making. Give it a few years and they will be back in the same fields just with a change of clothes.


Stop job seekers allowance for immigrants then problem solved.
1 Like #37
JonnyTwoToes
Just suggestions really.

Your "just suggestions" are like Hannibal lecter "just making a snack".
#38
JonnyTwoToes
roryk83
another thread of well thought out and insightful arguments :|


Just suggestions really. Not got anything to add?


Plum


I suspect you would find my answer "unrealistic". Then you and FF get all annoyed with me and it just creates bad vibes. I would not want to do that to such a pleasant and thoughtful thread.


+1
#39
danmc
Plum

There go a load of agricultural workers to the dole queue. A whole new set of future criminals in the making. Give it a few years and they will be back in the same fields just with a change of clothes.


Stop job seekers allowance for immigrants then problem solved.


Including legal immigrants? What about the reciprocal agreements in place between the respective countries that has been set up to deal with this?
#40
I think every prisoner should be made to work inside prison, but with some pay. Like 1/3rd of their pay being put into a savings account ready for their release, 1/3rd going to the prison costs, and 1/3rd going to their victims(or a victim fund).
Give them some basic skills, make them used to working a proper job and give them something to get them started when they are released.

first we need to scrap the human rights laws tho or we can't make them do anything.

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