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Trying to get fault with phone line fixed.

Benjimoron Avatar
6y, 7m agoPosted 6 years, 7 months ago
So basically, I have 2 lines (or at least one line which is (multiplexed or whatever?) to give 2 lines). Now the first one is fine, both phone and broadband working no problems whatsoever.

The second line has a really bad crackling noise on the phone when the broadband modem is plugged in and also whenever you pick up the phone (to make or receive a call) the internet cuts out for around a minute. After a few seconds you hear the fax type noises starting again as it reconnects.

I've tried 3 phones, 5 filters and 2 routers all plugged into the test socket so I think I've done my bit eliminating the problem from this end. I don't seem to be getting anywhere with Talktalk though, the latest they've told me is that a BT engineer has been working on it at the exchange for the last 4 days straight without even taking a break!!! Clearly they're just talking out of their backsides. No offence to any other country but every time I have to deal with a foreign call centre and they just spout rubbish every time!!! Probably not their fault, they've got families to feed etc. Companies shouldn't be cheap and outsource this stuff.

Anyway, anyone got any technical knowledge that might help me fix this? Talktalk can't decide between themselves whether it's a phone problem or a broadband problem. The initial guy I spoke to said there's a high voltage on the line which is the likely result of two wires touching each other at the exchange, sounds like it would cause the problems I've got to me.

Now, seeing as the line is shared and the first has no problems then surely the only place a problem could be is on the few inches of wire in my house from the first socket and the few metres of wire in the exchange? Can't see what takes them so long to fix?
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Benjimoron Avatar
6y, 7m agoPosted 6 years, 7 months ago
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1 Like #1
Sign up and make a thread indicating all your problems here, you should get a reply from an OCE come Monday who will do a better job of sorting your phone line then the phone support would.

http://talktalkmembers.org/forums/index.php

Hope that helps !
#2
DFN
Sign up and make a thread indicating all your problems here, you should get a reply from an OCE come Monday who will do a better job of sorting your phone line then the phone support would.

http://talktalkmembers.org/forums/index.php

Hope that helps !


I had a go at that but never ended up answering all their questions, I didn't know the answer to a few of them. I'll have another go tonight.
#3
With regards to the 'fault' it sounds like a high resistence fault if it's cutting out when using the phone. This needs looking at by an engineer if tests draw a blank, it could be a problem from any where within your house to the exchange, if it's the former you may be charged for the visit. How is old is the master socket/wiring of the faulty line ?
1 Like #4
It is not necessarily the case that the issue lies within vicinity of your property. The line may be shared but each one of your lines use a channel on shared cables (I think they are E1 cables). There are 32 channels on the E1 cables with 30 channels used for voice, one used for signalling and the other for synchronisation. If the E1 cable is partially damaged then it is possibly some of the audio signals on some channels may be sufficiently degraded but the other channels may still remain unscathed.

There is no excuse for the amount of time it has taken for the BT engineer to investigate. They can simply perform a loopback test by sending a tone along each one of the channels and get it to loop back to an analyser.

To be fair to TalkTalk, this is BT's responsibility. All TalkTalk can do is to pester BT because BT own the lines.
#6
DFN
With regards to the 'fault' it sounds like a high resistence fault if it's cutting out when using the phone. This needs looking at by an engineer if tests draw a blank, it could be a problem from any where within your house to the exchange, if it's the former you may be charged for the visit. How is old is the master socket/wiring of the faulty line ?


I'm not paying anything for it lol!!! It was added one year ago, don't know how old the original one is, probably 50 years or whatever the usual is!

The fault has always been there but I assumed it was because of using a wireless phone at distance and my laptop has issues with wireless sometimes. Since I've changed most things over to wired to try to get rid of the problem I've realised that it's something else causing it. I've tried with just router, filter and wired phone and it still happens.
#7
ElliottC
It is not necessarily the case that the issue lies within vicinity of your property. The line may be shared but each one of your lines use a channel on shared cables (I think they are E1 cables). There are 32 channels on the E1 cables with 30 channels used for voice, one used for signalling and the other for synchronisation. If the E1 cable is partially damaged then it is possibly some of the audio signals on some channels may be sufficiently degraded but the other channels may still remain unscathed.

There is no excuse for the amount of time it has taken for the BT engineer to investigate. They can simply perform a loopback test by sending a tone along each one of the channels and get it to loop back to an analyser.

To be fair to TalkTalk, this is BT's responsibility. All TalkTalk can do is to pester BT because BT own the lines.


That makes alot of sense, thankyou. It may be BT's responsibility but Talktalk have now lied to me on sooo many occassions it's getting unreal!
#9
You'll only get charged if it's caused by something inside beyond the Master Socket, if it's anything upto the master socket then you'll be fine.
#10
Benjimoron
That makes alot of sense, thankyou. It may be BT's responsibility but Talktalk have now lied to me on sooo many occassions it's getting unreal!


It doesn't surprise me TalkTalk have been untruthful and to show how uncaring they are, Mr Dunstone is unlikely to reply to your email. It is in their interests to chase up BT, since the longer this takes, the more they will have to compensate you.
#11
He may not get a personal email from Mr Dunstone but he'll get a reply and get somewhere I'm sure. I wouldn't be surprised if BT haven't even looked into this, he may have just been told this. Anyway what should be happening is that TalkTalk ask BT to run some line tests and refer the results back to them, if these draw a blank TalkTalk will offer to book an engineer to investigate but advise costs may be involved if no fault is found. The tests they can run don't always find a fault especially high resistence faults and the like so you may draw blanks until you get to deal with someone who is prepared to go through every possibilty.
#12
[QUOTE=ElliottC]It is not necessarily the case that the issue lies within vicinity of your property. The line may be shared but each one of your lines use a channel on shared cables (I think they are E1 cables). There are 32 channels on the E1 cables with 30 channels used for voice, one used for signalling and the other for synchronisation. If the E1 cable is partially damaged then it is possibly some of the audio signals on some channels may be sufficiently degraded but the other channels may still remain unscathed.

There is no excuse for the amount of time it has taken for the BT engineer to investigate. They can simply perform a loopback test by sending a tone along each one of the channels and get it to loop back to an analyser.

The E1 cable you are on about i think will just confuse most but most lines will have copper tail cables to their house from the last bt location .This is a cable fault which is either high resistance or an earth on the line.When they do a line test they cannot pick up noise unless really really bad a loop back test may not pick this up as you would see AIS and bit errors but i would be surprised if they will run this test for you.
#13
Talktalk are great for passing the buck, why would a BT engineer be working on a talktalk lline for one (openreach jumper men may look at it the exchange). I've been to many faulst where talktalk/opal has fobbed customers off for days, one lady had a problem for 3 months before talk talk booked a field visit.
It sounds like someone earlier said that it's a H/R problem (high resistance disconnection), and engineer with a Hawk tester should be able to identify a fault on the line quite easily.
It's unlikely but prove the fault out of your premises 1st.
If it's noisy often you may be better reporting a fault against the voice side of your line and not the data.
#14
DFN
You'll only get charged if it's caused by something inside beyond the Master Socket, if it's anything upto the master socket then you'll be fine.


I've connected to the test socket as above and Talktalk have agreed that it's nothing my end so I won't have to pay anything, not that I would anyway!
#15
Paddy_o_furniture
Talktalk are great for passing the buck, why would a BT engineer be working on a talktalk lline for one (openreach jumper men may look at it the exchange). I've been to many faulst where talktalk/opal has fobbed customers off for days, one lady had a problem for 3 months before talk talk booked a field visit.
It sounds like someone earlier said that it's a H/R problem (high resistance disconnection), and engineer with a Hawk tester should be able to identify a fault on the line quite easily.
It's unlikely but prove the fault out of your premises 1st.
If it's noisy often you may be better reporting a fault against the voice side of your line and not the data.


I've reported the fault as a whole, they keep telling me they've sent a phone engineer rather than a broadband engineer by mistake (same mistake around 3 times apparently!!!).

I don't believe for one second that they've actually sent anyone out, 4 days non stop working on it apparently, pull the other one!!! Plus if they'd sent someone out he would likely want to check the phone here and he hasn't called so I call their bluff!
#16
Benjimoron;8389581
I've reported the fault as a whole, they keep telling me they've sent a phone engineer rather than a broadband engineer by mistake (same mistake around 3 times apparently!!!).

I don't believe for one second that they've actually sent anyone out, 4 days non stop working on it apparently, pull the other one!!! Plus if they'd sent someone out he would likely want to check the phone here and he hasn't called so I call their bluff!

Have you had an engineer visit?
#17
Paddy_o_furniture
Have you had an engineer visit?


No, no-one at all!
#18
Benjimoron;8391396
No, no-one at all!

You'll ned visit from an openreach, insist on it. What area you in?
#19
Thought I was finally going to get this fixed today, got a call this morning to book the engineer, then they told me I may get charged £170 for it, so I told them I'd been assured I'd pay nothing, so they said they'd get the call recording checked and if so they'd pick up the bill if there was one.

Then got a call from the CEO's office to say that as the problem had been going on for so long they were taking over and no-one else would be allowed to do anything to the issue. Told them I was just about to get the engineer out and they said they'd need to go back to step 1 and re-test the line etc. I was like WHAT? They said they'd need to make sure all the tests etc had been done properly so we'd need to go through everything again. I was like WTF??? A piece of me just died!!

So now I'm back at step 1 with them sending out some equipment for me to test to see if that fixes anything, even though they could see a high voltage on the line they still want to see if my equipment is causing the issue. Testing 4 phones, 5 microfilters and 2 routers already into the test socket wasn't enough for them clearly!!!

So, wish me luck!
#20
Benjimoron;8433127
Thought I was finally going to get this fixed today, got a call this morning to book the engineer, then they told me I may get charged £170 for it, so I told them I'd been assured I'd pay nothing, so they said they'd get the call recording checked and if so they'd pick up the bill if there was one.

Then got a call from the CEO's office to say that as the problem had been going on for so long they were taking over and no-one else would be allowed to do anything to the issue. Told them I was just about to get the engineer out and they said they'd need to go back to step 1 and re-test the line etc. I was like WHAT? They said they'd need to make sure all the tests etc had been done properly so we'd need to go through everything again. I was like WTF??? A piece of me just died!!

So now I'm back at step 1 with them sending out some equipment for me to test to see if that fixes anything, even though they could see a high voltage on the line they still want to see if my equipment is causing the issue. Testing 4 phones, 5 microfilters and 2 routers already into the test socket wasn't enough for them clearly!!!

So, wish me luck!

High Voltage on the line would make the telephone line unsafe, battery contact? That means the cables wet/in contact with another phoneline, thats not gonna be in your premises
#21
Paddy_o_furniture
High Voltage on the line would make the telephone line unsafe, battery contact? That means the cables wet/in contact with another phoneline, thats not gonna be in your premises


That makes perfect sense, but for some reason they're insisting on testing more equipment here thinking I have 2 routers with exactly the same fault at the same time causing the same problem!!!
#22
So, third router turned up and still the same problem. They've finally agreed that it's not the router!!

Engineer booked for Saturday but getting concerned that they've got the wrong engineer, they're sending a BT engineer who looks at phone line issues rather than the SFI engineer that looks at broadband issues. Seeing as this noise etc starts when I plug the broadband in then I would've thought that a broadband engineer should be looking at it?

They kindly e-mailed me to let me know that I wouldn't be charged for the engineer if it turned out they sent the wrong one!! There is no way in this world that I would pay them for sending the wrong engineer!!!!
#24


Thanks, it's only been a few weeks so far. They've said they'll compensate for the trouble/lies etc but they won't discuss how much until the issue is fixed. I've told them I've spent around 10-20 hours on the phone with them plus some time moving equipment etc for testing (don't mind doing it once but again and again takes the biscuit!).

Not sure what they'll come back with but anything short of £100 is valuing my time at less than minimum wage which would annoy me further!!
#25
Benjimoron
So, third router turned up and still the same problem. They've finally agreed that it's not the router!!

Engineer booked for Saturday but getting concerned that they've got the wrong engineer, they're sending a BT engineer who looks at phone line issues rather than the SFI engineer that looks at broadband issues. Seeing as this noise etc starts when I plug the broadband in then I would've thought that a broadband engineer should be looking at it?

They kindly e-mailed me to let me know that I wouldn't be charged for the engineer if it turned out they sent the wrong one!! There is no way in this world that I would pay them for sending the wrong engineer!!!!



So the engineer came, told me it was nothing to do with him and they should've sent an SFI engineer as I had already told Talktalk a million times over!!!

Spent another 2 hours on the phone being fobbed off and answering stupid questions such as:
How many sockets do you have? 1. Which socket is the phone plugged into? Well duh, it'll be the same one then!!!

Eventually got through to someone who would book me an appointment, although it turns out he lied as when I phoned back later for the time the engineer would be here he hadn't done it.

Now apparently they're running more tests and I should expect it fixed within a few days. I won't hold my breath!
#26
Benjimoron;8506556
So the engineer came, told me it was nothing to do with him and they should've sent an SFI engineer as I had already told Talktalk a million times over!!!

Spent another 2 hours on the phone being fobbed off and answering stupid questions such as:
How many sockets do you have? 1. Which socket is the phone plugged into? Well duh, it'll be the same one then!!!

Eventually got through to someone who would book me an appointment, although it turns out he lied as when I phoned back later for the time the engineer would be here he hadn't done it.

Now apparently they're running more tests and I should expect it fixed within a few days. I won't hold my breath!

SFI engineers are broadband engineers, you reporting a fault against your voice line or broadband part? Makes a difference beleive it or not and not all Openreach customer service engineers are broadband trained.
#27
Paddy_o_furniture
SFI engineers are broadband engineers, you reporting a fault against your voice line or broadband part? Makes a difference beleive it or not and not all Openreach customer service engineers are broadband trained.


I've reported the fault of being able to hear the broadband noises when making a phone call, so it's both I guess. But seeing as it is coming from the broadband side I suggested at minimum a broadband trained engineer should attend. The CEO's office disagreed and sent one who wasn't trained and confirmed that it was nothing to do with him!!
#28
So the SFI engineer came, found where the problem was, then decided to tell me that he'd spent long enough here and would go now so I'd need to book another engineer. I thought he was pulling my leg but he was for real!!! He spent an hour here then went!

Can't believe I've not got to wait in for another morning just because they would only spend an hour looking at the problem. I can't guarentee being in for a whole morning for another couple of weeks so it's just going to drag on longer now.

Apparently you get charged £100 if you're not in for some reason, even if it's just popping out to take the kids to school, ridiculous!!!
#29
Benjimoron;8567699
So the SFI engineer came, found where the problem was, then decided to tell me that he'd spent long enough here and would go now so I'd need to book another engineer. I thought he was pulling my leg but he was for real!!! He spent an hour here then went!

Can't believe I've not got to wait in for another morning just because they would only spend an hour looking at the problem. I can't guarentee being in for a whole morning for another couple of weeks so it's just going to drag on longer now.

Apparently you get charged £100 if you're not in for some reason, even if it's just popping out to take the kids to school, ridiculous!!!

SFI task is 2 hours long max (if no copper fault on the line) if you don;t think he spent 2 hours report it to your service provider. openreach charge opel/talk talk £125 for sending an engineer for that time.
Next time you get one tell him you want a "full pair quality test with the RU on at the MDF and you want to see the results".
#30
Paddy_o_furniture
SFI task is 2 hours long max (if no copper fault on the line) if you don;t think he spent 2 hours report it to your service provider. openreach charge opel/talk talk £125 for sending an engineer for that time.
Next time you get one tell him you want a "full pair quality test with the RU on at the MDF and you want to see the results".


Arrived 10:30am and didn't know what the fault was so 99% certain that he hadn't done any checks before arriving. Phoned me at 11:30 to say that he'd had a call to say move on, so I'd have to book another engineer.

Not sure what you mean about copper fault, he found a fault but didn't have time to do anything about it.

I don't have a clue about that test! As long as the next one fixes the problem I'll be happy, not sure how I'd speed them up for getting that test, they'd probably blame me for wasting their time then and I don't want to give them any reason to blame me for this taking so long!
#31
Benjimoron;8567817
Arrived 10:30am and didn't know what the fault was so 99% certain that he hadn't done any checks before arriving. Phoned me at 11:30 to say that he'd had a call to say move on, so I'd have to book another engineer.

Not sure what you mean about copper fault, he found a fault but didn't have time to do anything about it.

I don't have a clue about that test! As long as the next one fixes the problem I'll be happy, not sure how I'd speed them up for getting that test, they'd probably blame me for wasting their time then and I don't want to give them any reason to blame me for this taking so long!

Serious complain to talk talk, if he found a copper (fault with the phoneline and not the broadband) he stays until its fixed. If he found a fault with the ADSL he stays on the fault a maximum 2 hours (but he should stay for 2 hours and attmept to do what he can in that time).
#32
Paddy_o_furniture
Serious complain to talk talk, if he found a copper (fault with the phoneline and not the broadband) he stays until its fixed. If he found a fault with the ADSL he stays on the fault a maximum 2 hours (but he should stay for 2 hours and attmept to do what he can in that time).


Had a seperate engineer look at the landline and said it's fine.

The SFI one said the fault was a couple of roads up, is it possible for there to be a fault on the broadband only out there??

Already added it to my complaint, don't expect them to be bothered though!
#33
Benjimoron;8568614
Had a seperate engineer look at the landline and said it's fine.

The SFI one said the fault was a couple of roads up, is it possible for there to be a fault on the broadband only out there??

Already added it to my complaint, don't expect them to be bothered though!

Yeah it's possible, could be a section of cable that doesn't like broadband. Does happen sometimes.
Email the talk talk ceo/chairman note all this in your email, state that the engineer never stayed for the full 2hrs (talktalk would of been charged for 2 so they'll be happy to try and reclaim that for themselves). They will be able to tell how long he stayed from the time he picked up and commed off the job.
Mention in your email that you don't beleive a full pair quality test has been done and that you would like an enahnced care task as this has been going on sometime. (enhanced care is not bound by time).
#34
Paddy_o_furniture
Yeah it's possible, could be a section of cable that doesn't like broadband. Does happen sometimes.
Email the talk talk ceo/chairman note all this in your email, state that the engineer never stayed for the full 2hrs (talktalk would of been charged for 2 so they'll be happy to try and reclaim that for themselves). They will be able to tell how long he stayed from the time he picked up and commed off the job.
Mention in your email that you don't beleive a full pair quality test has been done and that you would like an enahnced care task as this has been going on sometime. (enhanced care is not bound by time).


This has been dealt with by the CEO's office for the past couple of weeks, although I'm now getting worse service from them than I was from the standard British call centres.

What's to say the guy didn't sit in his van for the rest of the time, the last guy sat in his van on my drive for about half hour last time.

I'll take a look at this ECT you speak of but I don't like to blag these things as I'll come unstuck when they start asking why I don't believe it's done properly for example. I know from a customer's point of view that this is getting ridiculous so I'll probably fight it like that.
#35
Benjimoron;8568869
This has been dealt with by the CEO's office for the past couple of weeks, although I'm now getting worse service from them than I was from the standard British call centres.

What's to say the guy didn't sit in his van for the rest of the time, the last guy sat in his van on my drive for about half hour last time.

I'll take a look at this ECT you speak of but I don't like to blag these things as I'll come unstuck when they start asking why I don't believe it's done properly for example. I know from a customer's point of view that this is getting ridiculous so I'll probably fight it like that.

Most areas have trackers in the vans now so they can see if he sat in his van before picking up another job.
You shouldn't have any noise on your line, thats a copper fault. Do you know what has been done on your line so far? Ask if a e and d side change have been done.
#36
Paddy_o_furniture
Most areas have trackers in the vans now so they can see if he sat in his van before picking up another job.
You shouldn't have any noise on your line, thats a copper fault. Do you know what has been done on your line so far? Ask if a e and d side change have been done.


I know they have trackers but he could easily have "turned up" early and "left" after he said. It's only my word against his that he was actually working on it for an hour.

The noise I can hear is the broadband noise, if you take the router out it goes away. When you plug the router in you get a few fax noises then a constant noise which makes it very hard to hear people. I've tried 3 routers and 6 filters now so that's not the problem! He says he's found the problem so hopefully it'll get fixed on the next visit.

All they've done so far is tests, they haven't swapped over any lines as of yet. I would've thought that they could just switch it over to a spare line just to see if that gets rid of the problem. Would've taken them an hour or so to do that a month ago and it should've been problem sorted!


EDIT - Just looked up the call on my phone, 11:38 he called, so he did 1 hour and 8 minutes!
#37
Benjimoron;8568982
I know they have trackers but he could easily have "turned up" early and "left" after he said. It's only my word against his that he was actually working on it for an hour.

The noise I can hear is the broadband noise, if you take the router out it goes away. When you plug the router in you get a few fax noises then a constant noise which makes it very hard to hear people. I've tried 3 routers and 6 filters now so that's not the problem! He says he's found the problem so hopefully it'll get fixed on the next visit.

All they've done so far is tests, they haven't swapped over any lines as of yet. I would've thought that they could just switch it over to a spare line just to see if that gets rid of the problem. Would've taken them an hour or so to do that a month ago and it should've been problem sorted!


EDIT - Just looked up the call on my phone, 11:38 he called, so he did 1 hour and 8 minutes!

The tracker is linked to works manager, they can see how long he was on site for.
You shouldn't be getting any noise, I'd personally class that as a copper fault and as such your on that job till it's fixed (unless civil works are required).
#38
Paddy_o_furniture
The tracker is linked to works manager, they can see how long he was on site for.
You shouldn't be getting any noise, I'd personally class that as a copper fault and as such your on that job till it's fixed (unless civil works are required).


But he was up the road in his van, who's to say that he didn't sit there until later then knock off (making up the bit about being called to tell him to move on)? Or sit outside my house for a while before knocking on the door?

The previous guy probably didn't report that he'd finished the job until he left my drive, half hour after he actually finished the job.

I know I shouldn't be getting any noise, the filter should get rid of it. I was just very suprised when he said so soon that he was giving up and it'd need re-booking. It's just such an inconvenience, it's not very often that I can guarentee being in. That's 2 Saturday mornings I've had to give up now just so they can fanny about on my line, now I've got to waste another, and who knows how many more after that???

Anyway, must go to work. Thanks, bye.
#39
This is getting even more ridiculous. I received an e-mail from the CEO's office with several mistakes, most notably one sentence that was far too long and didn't make sense. I made this sentence bold, forwarded it back and asked what they meant.

Their reply was that they don't know why it is in bold as they didn't make it bold!!! For the love of God...
#40
That's priceless Ben!

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