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Uber, trials self driving cars - running red lights mistakes blamed on human error

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California regulators ordered Uber to remove its self-driving vehicles from the road on the same day that the company’s vehicles were caught running red lights – violations the company immediately bla… Read More
davewave Avatar
7m, 1w agoPosted 7 months, 1 week ago
California regulators ordered Uber to remove its self-driving vehicles from the road on the same day that the company’s vehicles were caught running red lights – violations the company immediately blamed on “human error”.

“It is essential that Uber takes appropriate measures to ensure safety of the public,” the California department of motor vehicles (DMV) wrote to Uber on Wednesday after it defied government officials and began piloting the cars in San Francisco without permits. “If Uber does not confirm immediately that it will stop its launch and seek a testing permit, DMV will initiate legal action.”

An Uber spokesperson said two red-light violations were due to mistakes by the people required to sit behind the steering wheel and said the company has suspended the drivers.
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davewave Avatar
7m, 1w agoPosted 7 months, 1 week ago
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9 Likes
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO

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9 Likes #2
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
1 Like #3
Could it have been Dedsec?

Edited By: phoenix029 on Dec 15, 2016 07:15
#4
#5
Might be the type of car? BMW springs to mind........
2 Likes #6
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO

No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
3 Likes #7
Of course it's going to be human error.

Humans still write and test the software for automation. So until computers can build, programme and test themselves humans will always be to blame ;) .

Skynet anyone?
#8
bigfoot100
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
Exactly and there will be more mistakes and more accidents along the way.

That's the price of progress.
2 Likes #9
bigfoot100
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
And yet it was the drivers error for failing to stop at a red light, meaning the automated self driving car can't even do the basics and follow the rules of the road.
#10
colin4man
Of course it's going to be human error.
Humans still write and test the software for automation. So until computers can build, programme and test themselves humans will always be to blame ;) .
Skynet anyone?

Von Neumann
1 Like #11
blaming human error for a simple step doesn't instill confidence, then again it is Uber who really aren't about safety.
#12
stuarthanley
bigfoot100
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
And yet it was the drivers error for failing to stop at a red light, meaning the automated self driving car can't even do the basics and follow the rules of the road.

Actually what it means is that the drivers could have been in control of the vehicle and ran a red light.

Until the investigation is complete, nobody knows.

Uber suspended the driver.


Edited By: HotEnglishAndWelshDeals on Dec 15, 2016 09:54
1 Like #13
davewave
blaming human error for a simple step doesn't instill confidence, then again it is Uber who really aren't about safety.
My mates HGV has a few automated systems on it including automatic crash detection.
Yesterday, he was following his lane around a left hand bend that was completely clear. The lane to his right (oncoming traffic) was at a complete stand still.
Because his HGV detected an obstacle slightly to the front right of his cab (the traffic on the opposite side), it automatically put on the emergency brakes and snatched the wheel from his hands.
The vehicle behind him wasnt too impressed when 44 tonnes of truck came to an abrupt, unnecessary stop directly in front of him.
Also, none of his automated systems work when it is foggy.
These systems are already out there despite them not working correctly.
1 Like #14
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
bigfoot100
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
And yet it was the drivers error for failing to stop at a red light, meaning the automated self driving car can't even do the basics and follow the rules of the road.
Actually what it means is that the drivers were actually in control of the vehicle and ran a red light.

Until the investigation is complete, nobody knows.

Uber suspended the driver.
So it wasn't an automated vehicle then and the story is "uber drivers run red lights"
Drivers - plural. It happened on more than one occasion.
#15
stuarthanley
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
bigfoot100
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
And yet it was the drivers error for failing to stop at a red light, meaning the automated self driving car can't even do the basics and follow the rules of the road.
Actually what it means is that the drivers were actually in control of the vehicle and ran a red light.
Until the investigation is complete, nobody knows.
Uber suspended the driver.
So it wasn't an automated vehicle then and the story is "uber drivers run red lights"
Drivers - plural. It happened on more than one occasion.

You don't seem to understand. Automated vehicles often still have manual controls.

My experience is only with Tesla's but what you have is a regular car with self driving ability. You need to be in the seat and you need to place your hands on the wheel every so often.

At any time you can take over control.

In this testing phase of course there will be drivers in the car. What's possible is that the driver was in control when it ran the red light.
#16
haritori
colin4man
Of course it's going to be human error.
Humans still write and test the software for automation. So until computers can build, programme and test themselves humans will always be to blame ;) .
Skynet anyone?

Von Neumann


To my shame I'd never heard of him. Just read a bit on Wiki. What a cool dude. A friend of mine's son is doing a maths phd at Oxford at the moment, not sure what field, I'll pick his brains over Xmas and see if he knows where we are with this stuff
#17
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
bigfoot100
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
And yet it was the drivers error for failing to stop at a red light, meaning the automated self driving car can't even do the basics and follow the rules of the road.
Actually what it means is that the drivers were actually in control of the vehicle and ran a red light.
Until the investigation is complete, nobody knows.
Uber suspended the driver.
So it wasn't an automated vehicle then and the story is "uber drivers run red lights"
Drivers - plural. It happened on more than one occasion.

You don't seem to understand. Automated vehicles often still have manual controls.

My experience is only with Tesla's but what you have is a regular car with self driving ability. You need to be in the seat and you need to place your hands on the wheel every so often.

At any time you can take over control.

In this testing phase of course there will be drivers in the car. What's possible is that the driver was in control when it ran the red light.


why did it even attempt to run the red light, or was the car aiming to test the driver?
#18
davewave
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
bigfoot100
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
And yet it was the drivers error for failing to stop at a red light, meaning the automated self driving car can't even do the basics and follow the rules of the road.
Actually what it means is that the drivers were actually in control of the vehicle and ran a red light.
Until the investigation is complete, nobody knows.
Uber suspended the driver.
So it wasn't an automated vehicle then and the story is "uber drivers run red lights"
Drivers - plural. It happened on more than one occasion.
You don't seem to understand. Automated vehicles often still have manual controls.
My experience is only with Tesla's but what you have is a regular car with self driving ability. You need to be in the seat and you need to place your hands on the wheel every so often.
At any time you can take over control.
In this testing phase of course there will be drivers in the car. What's possible is that the driver was in control when it ran the red light.
why did it even attempt to run the red light, or was the car aiming to test the driver?

As I said, we don't know if it was the driver in control or not. If it was then he obviously overrides the system.
1 Like #19
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
davewave
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
bigfoot100
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
And yet it was the drivers error for failing to stop at a red light, meaning the automated self driving car can't even do the basics and follow the rules of the road.
Actually what it means is that the drivers were actually in control of the vehicle and ran a red light.
Until the investigation is complete, nobody knows.
Uber suspended the driver.
So it wasn't an automated vehicle then and the story is "uber drivers run red lights"
Drivers - plural. It happened on more than one occasion.
You don't seem to understand. Automated vehicles often still have manual controls.
My experience is only with Tesla's but what you have is a regular car with self driving ability. You need to be in the seat and you need to place your hands on the wheel every so often.
At any time you can take over control.
In this testing phase of course there will be drivers in the car. What's possible is that the driver was in control when it ran the red light.
why did it even attempt to run the red light, or was the car aiming to test the driver?

As I said, we don't know if it was the driver in control or not. If it was then he obviously overrides the system.


why did it need an override, not very self driving is it?
3 Likes #20
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.
#21
davewave
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
davewave
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
stuarthanley
bigfoot100
stuarthanley
Cars that drive themselves yet still require someone behind the wheel to operate them?
This automated future is going well oO
No technology is perfect when first developed. Driving on real roads is the only way to iron out issues so its sensible to have a driver as a precaution until everything is working properly.
And yet it was the drivers error for failing to stop at a red light, meaning the automated self driving car can't even do the basics and follow the rules of the road.
Actually what it means is that the drivers were actually in control of the vehicle and ran a red light.
Until the investigation is complete, nobody knows.
Uber suspended the driver.
So it wasn't an automated vehicle then and the story is "uber drivers run red lights"
Drivers - plural. It happened on more than one occasion.
You don't seem to understand. Automated vehicles often still have manual controls.
My experience is only with Tesla's but what you have is a regular car with self driving ability. You need to be in the seat and you need to place your hands on the wheel every so often.
At any time you can take over control.
In this testing phase of course there will be drivers in the car. What's possible is that the driver was in control when it ran the red light.
why did it even attempt to run the red light, or was the car aiming to test the driver?
As I said, we don't know if it was the driver in control or not. If it was then he obviously overrides the system.
why did it need an override, not very self driving is it?

Because self-driving cars can be used in both modes.

Any more questions you need answering?
#22
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.

There will invariably be mistakes made by the systems and also by driver error. The same happened in aviation, space exploration Etc.

I imagine when fire was discovered, Ug the Afraid warned people of the dangers and railed against it because it would kill people. People were killed by it too, but we ploughed on because that's what humans do.

We don't let the fears of those afraid of change hold us back.

Edited By: HotEnglishAndWelshDeals on Dec 15, 2016 10:52
#23
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.
There will invariably be mistakes made by the systems and also by driver error. The same happened in aviation, space exploration Etc.
I imagine when fire was discovered, Ug the Afraid warned people of the dangers and railed against it because it would kill people. People were killed by it too, but we ploughed on because that's what humans do.
We don't let the fears of those afraid of change hold us back.

What are you talking about? Fear? WTF :|

Edited By: RossD89 on Dec 15, 2016 10:57
#24
RossD89
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.
There will invariably be mistakes made by the systems and also by driver error. The same happened in aviation, space exploration Etc.
I imagine when fire was discovered, Ug the Afraid warned people of the dangers and railed against it because it would kill people. People were killed by it too, but we ploughed on because that's what humans do.
We don't let the fears of those afraid of change hold us back.
What are you talking about? Fear? :|

Yes fear. Not specifically you but others.
1 Like #25
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.

There will invariably be mistakes made by the systems and also by driver error. The same happened in aviation, space exploration Etc.

I imagine when fire was discovered, Ug the Afraid warned people of the dangers and railed against it because it would kill people. People were killed by it too, but we ploughed on because that's what humans do.

We don't let the fears of those afraid of change hold us back.


So did Ug the Afraid vote Remain in the referendum because he feared change :D .
1 Like #26
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We don't let the fears of those afraid of change hold us back.
Except when it comes to brexit. ;)
#27
colin4man
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.
There will invariably be mistakes made by the systems and also by driver error. The same happened in aviation, space exploration Etc.
I imagine when fire was discovered, Ug the Afraid warned people of the dangers and railed against it because it would kill people. People were killed by it too, but we ploughed on because that's what humans do.
We don't let the fears of those afraid of change hold us back.
So did Ug the Afraid vote Remain in the referendum because he feared change :D .

123thisisme
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We don't let the fears of those afraid of change hold us back.
Except when it comes to brexit. ;)

There's a difference between fearing positive change that will save lives and believing that brexit will have a negative impact on our economy, particularly our financial services industry.
#28
And Ug would've been a brexit voter who worked in a low skilled job that was likely to be automated within the next decade.Ug's very afraid about how he will pay his mortgage on his modest home in the Midlands and fears losing the respect of his children.

Poor Ug.

Ug hate liberal metropolitan elite. :(

Edited By: HotEnglishAndWelshDeals on Dec 15, 2016 11:18
#29
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
colin4man
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.
There will invariably be mistakes made by the systems and also by driver error. The same happened in aviation, space exploration Etc.
I imagine when fire was discovered, Ug the Afraid warned people of the dangers and railed against it because it would kill people. People were killed by it too, but we ploughed on because that's what humans do.
We don't let the fears of those afraid of change hold us back.
So did Ug the Afraid vote Remain in the referendum because he feared change :D .

123thisisme
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
We don't let the fears of those afraid of change hold us back.
Except when it comes to brexit. ;)

There's a difference between fearing positive change that will save lives and believing that brexit will have a negative impact on our economy, particularly our financial services industry.


My bad I shouldn't have tried to take this thread off topic. Jjust feeling a bit mischievous in the run up to Christmas :D .
1 Like #30
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
And Ug would've been a brexit voter who worked in a low skilled job that was likely to be automated within the next decade.Ug's very afraid about how he will pay his mortgage on his modest home in the Midlands and fears losing the respect of his children.

Poor Ug.

Ug hate liberal metropolitan elite. :(


I like Ug :D .
1 Like #31
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
There's a difference between fearing positive change that will save lives and believing that brexit will have a negative impact on our economy, particularly our financial services industry.
Its all about perspective, you think automation is good and think positive i.e. it will save lives, you think brexit is bad and there fore think negative. Its still the fear of change.
#32
123thisisme
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
There's a difference between fearing positive change that will save lives and believing that brexit will have a negative impact on our economy, particularly our financial services industry.
Its all about perspective, you think automation is good and think positive i.e. it will save lives, you think brexit is bad and there fore think negative. Its still the fear of change.

But its what those fears are based on that matters.

Automation will save lives. The technology will be safer than humans.

Brexit has far too many pitfalls based on the evidence I've read, the experts I've listened to and my own experience.
#33
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.
It'll ALWAYS be human error. Humans program, service and maintain these machines. There will ALWAYS be a way to blame a person for something that goes wrong.
#34
stuarthanley
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.
It'll ALWAYS be human error. Humans program, service and maintain these machines. There will ALWAYS be a way to blame a person for something that goes wrong.
but blaming the person sitting in a self driving car seems a bit of a cop out, doesn't it?
#35
stuarthanley
davewave
stuarthanley
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.
It'll ALWAYS be human error. Humans program, service and maintain these machines. There will ALWAYS be a way to blame a person for something that goes wrong.
but blaming the person sitting in a self driving car seems a bit of a cop out, doesn't it?
The person was driving the car and it was nothing to do with the auto drive function..... Apparently.
Cmon Dave, have you not been listening to the Oracle?
who's the oracle?
#36
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
123thisisme
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
There's a difference between fearing positive change that will save lives and believing that brexit will have a negative impact on our economy, particularly our financial services industry.
Its all about perspective, you think automation is good and think positive i.e. it will save lives, you think brexit is bad and there fore think negative. Its still the fear of change.
But its what those fears are based on that matters.
Automation will save lives. The technology will be safer than humans.
Brexit has far too many pitfalls based on the evidence I've read, the experts I've listened to and my own experience.
please give the anti-Brexit organ a rest, this thread is about a self driving car in California! Stay on topic.
#37
davewave
stuarthanley
davewave
stuarthanley
RossD89
I'm always sceptical when firms trialing automated cars claim human error is at fault for something that went wrong.
It'll ALWAYS be human error. Humans program, service and maintain these machines. There will ALWAYS be a way to blame a person for something that goes wrong.
but blaming the person sitting in a self driving car seems a bit of a cop out, doesn't it?
The person was driving the car and it was nothing to do with the auto drive function..... Apparently.
Cmon Dave, have you not been listening to the Oracle?
who's the oracle?
It was a know-it-all character in The Matrix movies.
#38
davewave
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
123thisisme
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
There's a difference between fearing positive change that will save lives and believing that brexit will have a negative impact on our economy, particularly our financial services industry.
Its all about perspective, you think automation is good and think positive i.e. it will save lives, you think brexit is bad and there fore think negative. Its still the fear of change.
But its what those fears are based on that matters.
Automation will save lives. The technology will be safer than humans.
Brexit has far too many pitfalls based on the evidence I've read, the experts I've listened to and my own experience.
please give the anti-Brexit organ a rest, this thread is about a self driving car in California! Stay on topic.


My bad I think. Sorry :(
1 Like #39
colin4man
davewave
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
123thisisme
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
There's a difference between fearing positive change that will save lives and believing that brexit will have a negative impact on our economy, particularly our financial services industry.
Its all about perspective, you think automation is good and think positive i.e. it will save lives, you think brexit is bad and there fore think negative. Its still the fear of change.
But its what those fears are based on that matters.
Automation will save lives. The technology will be safer than humans.
Brexit has far too many pitfalls based on the evidence I've read, the experts I've listened to and my own experience.
please give the anti-Brexit organ a rest, this thread is about a self driving car in California! Stay on topic.
My bad I think. Sorry :(
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/6c/6c70da62ae570d83e39c2ea32d0cbdcedd8eba38770915b5d721bbbf4c89ebec.jpg
#40
davewave
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
123thisisme
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
There's a difference between fearing positive change that will save lives and believing that brexit will have a negative impact on our economy, particularly our financial services industry.
Its all about perspective, you think automation is good and think positive i.e. it will save lives, you think brexit is bad and there fore think negative. Its still the fear of change.
But its what those fears are based on that matters.
Automation will save lives. The technology will be safer than humans.
Brexit has far too many pitfalls based on the evidence I've read, the experts I've listened to and my own experience.
please give the anti-Brexit organ a rest, this thread is about a self driving car in California! Stay on topic.
My fault to be fair.

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