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Virgin Media/BPI Warning

£0.00 @ Virgin Media
Just got a warning from virgin media and the BPI for downloading and sharing music over the interwebs. They had a specific file on there which they caught my ip address sharing. I did admittedly downl… Read More
robster113 Avatar
8y, 2m agoPosted 8 years, 2 months ago
Just got a warning from virgin media and the BPI for downloading and sharing music over the interwebs. They had a specific file on there which they caught my ip address sharing. I did admittedly download and share this file although as it happens I did buy that album on amazon mp3 at a later date. Anyway is there any chance of disconnection or court case if I continue to download whatever I want. Not really worried about music anymore as I mostly use spotfiy and amzon mp3 downloads if I want it for my ipod but I download lots of shows from the US (such as lost, heroes and prison break etc.)
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robster113 Avatar
8y, 2m agoPosted 8 years, 2 months ago
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1 Like #1
Virgin are really cracking down on peopl who download files illegally. You can be sure your probably being monitored by them now if theyve already caught you in the act.

EDIT: And they are fully within their right to cut you off and hand your details off to the copyright owner.
#2
Are you using torrents?
#3
Yes I use bitorrent. I only use private trackers now so it should be a lot harder for the BPI to find out if I'm sharing.
#4
If i were you, I ll stir clear of torrents.
#5
move over to usenet. its safer and quicker
#6
Another way to get my fix of US shows is to download them from rapidshare. I'm sure it would be very hard to find out that you've done that.
#7
As most are getting at, stop using torrents. Even private trackers are easy to spot because of how the data is sent/recieved. Get on usenet or ftp.
#8
is there a safe way to download for free? don't you have to pay for usernet?
#9
robster113
Another way to get my fix of US shows is to download them from rapidshare. I'm sure it would be very hard to find out that you've done that.


Not really. If you can find the file, They can. Then they can find out who downloaded it.
#10
ChipSticks
is there a safe way to download for free? don't you have to pay for usernet?


You have to pay for good usenet's and I cant comment on the free ones as I havent used them. For clarity, There is no safe, easy, bulletproof way to download free files.

Perhaps its time to support the industries you're all ripping off.
#11
Jo3l
You have to pay for good usenet's and I cant comment on the free ones as I havent used them. For clarity, There is no safe, easy, bulletproof way to download free files.

Perhaps its time to support the industries you're all ripping off.


High horse much???

You advised someone to get on to usernet, you can't comment on the free ones because you don't use those... but WE'RE ripping off the industry?

Muppet.
#12
ChipSticks
High horse much???

You advised someone to get on to usernet, you can't comment on the free ones because you don't use those... but WE'RE ripping off the industry?

Muppet.


Do a bit of research onto what a usenet actually is please :thumbsup:

You dont have to download illegal content from them.
#13
Jo3l
You dont have to download illegal content from them.


Nor do you from torrents or p2p :thumbsup: 99% of the material on them IS copyrighted, and i know no-one that only downloads legal stuff from these methods
#14
peodude
Nor do you from torrents or p2p :thumbsup: 99% of the material on them IS copyrighted, and i know no-one that only downloads legal stuff from these methods


I think that torrenting and p2p have a stigma attached to them. They are so easy for anyone to pick up and use which is the reason they are targetted so effectively by copyright holders etc. Usenet has been relatively unrocognised for a looooong while but I doubt it'll be too long before that starts becoming more heavily moderated.
1 Like #15
Jo3l
Do a bit of research onto what a usenet actually is please :thumbsup:

You dont have to download illegal content from them.


and neither do you from torrents :thumbsup:

However, torrents can be as safe as you want : use a private tracker, therefore harder for the BPI to gain your IP address,
Use utorrent, which uses DHT's, (a kind of proxy, but better, have a look at wikipedia)
Use peerguardian to stop anyone connecting to you whom you probably don't want to
However, now they are probably monitoring you and are probably peering into every single P2P packet sent and received from your IP address

As for usenet, it uses SSL, which is not fool proof, but IS a very secure method. However, some people have said that they do have problems with using SSL on usenet, and also you need to remember that if Virgin Media really wanted to have a look at what was in that packet of data, then even though it is SSL encrypted probably wont stop them.

As a question to others though, if virgin media are monitoring you, surely this is a breach of the data protection act or something similar, as its effectively the same as listening in to someones phone call - companies just (legally anyway) are not allowed to do it, so why can they do it for the internet? Perhaps someone could explain that to me?
#16
spic
and neither do you from torrents :thumbsup:

However, torrents can be as safe as you want : use a private tracker, therefore harder for the BPI to gain your IP address,
Use utorrent, which uses DHT's, (a kind of proxy, but better, have a look at wikipedia)
Use peerguardian to stop anyone connecting to you whom you probably don't want to
However, now they are probably monitoring you and are probably peering into every single P2P packet sent and received from your IP address

As for usenet, it uses SSL, which is not fool proof, but IS a very secure method. However, some people have said that they do have problems with using SSL on usenet, and also you need to remember that if Virgin Media really wanted to have a look at what was in that packet of data, then even though it is SSL encrypted probably wont stop them.

As a question to others though, if virgin media are monitoring you, surely this is a breach of the data protection act or something similar, as its effectively the same as listening in to someones phone call - companies just (legally anyway) are not allowed to do it, so why can they do it for the internet? Perhaps someone could explain that to me?


AFAIK there was some legistlation or something which was put in place allowing your ISP to keep an eye on you if they believe that you are using their service for illegal activities.

The OP was caught red handed so they are completely allowed to monitor them, for what period I dont know, but they were caught and so the ISP know you are capable of and have previously commited a crime.

Same as the police spying outside the local crack den in principle.
#17
spic
and neither do you from torrents :thumbsup:

However, torrents can be as safe as you want : use a private tracker, therefore harder for the BPI to gain your IP address,
Use utorrent, which uses DHT's, (a kind of proxy, but better, have a look at wikipedia)
Use peerguardian to stop anyone connecting to you whom you probably don't want to
However, now they are probably monitoring you and are probably peering into every single P2P packet sent and received from your IP address

As for usenet, it uses SSL, which is not fool proof, but IS a very secure method. However, some people have said that they do have problems with using SSL on usenet, and also you need to remember that if Virgin Media really wanted to have a look at what was in that packet of data, then even though it is SSL encrypted probably wont stop them.

As a question to others though, if virgin media are monitoring you, surely this is a breach of the data protection act or something similar, as its effectively the same as listening in to someones phone call - companies just (legally anyway) are not allowed to do it, so why can they do it for the internet? Perhaps someone could explain that to me?


I was using utorrent when I downloaded/shared the file which BPI caught me on but it was on a public tracker. Think I will continue to use private trackers and if I get another warning I will quite altogether/move to another ISP.

Yeah I didn't think they were allowed to peek a look into what I am doing on the internet all the time. BPI only caught my ip address by simply being a peer for the file and connecting to me.
banned 1 Like #18
spic

As for usenet, it uses SSL, which is not fool proof, but IS a very secure method. However, some people have said that they do have problems with using SSL on usenet, and also you need to remember that if Virgin Media really wanted to have a look at what was in that packet of data, then even though it is SSL encrypted probably wont stop them.

As a question to others though, if virgin media are monitoring you, surely this is a breach of the data protection act or something similar, as its effectively the same as listening in to someones phone call - companies just (legally anyway) are not allowed to do it, so why can they do it for the internet? Perhaps someone could explain that to me?


Couple of points. Whilst usenet does use SSL, its not the norm. Often its a premium to do so. Its included in my provider for the same price though. However it is secure. Don't know enough on the subject to say if Virgin could intercept the content and unencrypt, but my gut feeling is they couldn't

Currently I believe there is now legislation in place that allows ISP to monitor what you are upto. Certainly 5 (at least) are doing so. Virgin, BT, AOL are 3 of them that do so.

What becomes confusing with shaping of traffic (esp for P2P) is when a users only usage is say for the BBC's iPlayer downloads. Crippleing that is just plain out of order to me!
#19
Jo3l
AFAIK there was some legistlation or something which was put in place allowing your ISP to keep an eye on you if they believe that you are using their service for illegal activities.

The OP was caught red handed so they are completely allowed to monitor them, for what period I dont know, but they were caught and so the ISP know you are capable of and have previously commited a crime.

Same as the police spying outside the local crack den in principle.


So they would have to catch you first before they could monitor you? But they surely cannot have all the resources to monitor more then a few hundred people, as to figure out what was in a packet they would have to get a human to look inside it... the mac header will only say that it is a p2p program, and there are loads of legal p2p programs being used.
#20
guv
Couple of points. Whilst usenet does use SSL, its not the norm. Often its a premium to do so. Its included in my provider for the same price though. However it is secure. Don't know enough on the subject to say if Virgin could intercept the content and unencrypt, but my gut feeling is they couldn't

Currently I believe there is now legislation in place that allows ISP to monitor what you are upto. Certainly 5 (at least) are doing so. Virgin, BT, AOL are 3 of them that do so.

What becomes confusing with shaping of traffic (esp for P2P) is when a users only usage is say for the BBC's iPlayer downloads. Crippleing that is just plain out of order to me!


SSL is very secure, however, if Virgin wanted they could certainly unencrypt it, by intercepting all the packets and either 'bruteforcing' their way in, or by acquiring the public key used.

Lots of people mentioning that virgin media traffic shape in some way, but I have never experienced this before, but i may just be lucky.
#21
spic
So they would have to catch you first before they could monitor you? But they surely cannot have all the resources to monitor more then a few hundred people, as to figure out what was in a packet they would have to get a human to look inside it... the mac header will only say that it is a p2p program, and there are loads of legal p2p programs being used.


I couldnt give you a definate answer but from what I know is this. You've seen how google spiders crawl through the net peeking, grabbing what they want to index whatever; Im sure with the ridiculous amounts of money at the ISP's fingertips it wouldnt be unimaginable to have a similar bot or spider system crawling through torrent, usenet, p2p indexes grabbing what they want and taking note of everyone else who does so.
banned#22
spic
SSL is very secure, however, if Virgin wanted they could certainly unencrypt it, by intercepting all the packets and either 'bruteforcing' their way in, or by acquiring the public key used.


Hmmm. Surely if it were as simple as that, no one would trust sending data over t'internet when making online purchases?

Lots of people mentioning that virgin media traffic shape in some way, but I have never experienced this before, but i may just be lucky.


Virgin 100% shape traffic. You've been lucky!:thumbsup: (Plenty of proof about - and I believe Virgin actually admit they do so. I know a few old ISPs ive used admit it anyway!)
#23
robster113
I was using utorrent when I downloaded/shared the file which BPI caught me on but it was on a public tracker. Think I will continue to use private trackers and if I get another warning I will quite altogether/move to another ISP.

Yeah I didn't think they were allowed to peek a look into what I am doing on the internet all the time. BPI only caught my ip address by simply being a peer for the file and connecting to me.


Unfortunatly, DHT's will only stop people from the outside from seeing your activities, and to connect to other peers/seeders, but these are known trusted seeders and peers with the file.

A private tracker and peer guardian are certainly worth it.
1 Like #24
If you don't want to go into the realms of linux coding (I use my ps3 for some of my needs) why don't you try peerguardin 2?
#25
guv
Hmmm. Surely if it were as simple as that, no one would trust sending data over t'internet when making online purchases.


Ah, lol, I didn't mean for it to sound simple, cos it certainly isn't. For a start, its very very difficult to intercept the packets, however, these packets are being passed over virgins network, which they can therefore intercept quite easily.

Also, if someone was to try and brute force their way in, it would take a lot of resources and a fair old amount of time.

I was just trying to point out that if virgin wanted to, they could, but i did not mean for it to sound easy. :)
1 Like #26
This is the trouble with Virgin. They're a content provider as well as a service provider, so when you use their service to download content they'd rather you pay them for, they get narked. But no matter - there's faster and cheaper ISPs avaiable, so you should ditch the judas little turds and go elsewhere. BeUnlimited are good.
#27
Jo3l
I couldnt give you a definate answer but from what I know is this. You've seen how google spiders crawl through the net peeking, grabbing what they want to index whatever; Im sure with the ridiculous amounts of money at the ISP's fingertips it wouldnt be unimaginable to have a similar bot or spider system crawling through torrent, usenet, p2p indexes grabbing what they want and taking note of everyone else who does so.


I understand what you are saying, but a bot like this, say it was set to look at all p2p files sent by looking at the MAC header.

How would it tell the difference between me downloading a file from somewhere legally, and downloading one from somewhere illegal? I thought that it could possibly look at the sent from address, but then the ISP are gonna need hundreds of legal and illegal sites, which would mean that a 'human' would have to look at it, and why would virgin want to expel these resources when there is no obvious gain for them.
banned#28
spic
I understand what you are saying, but a bot like this, say it was set to look at all p2p files sent by looking at the MAC header.

How would it tell the difference between me downloading a file from somewhere legally, and downloading one from somewhere illegal? I thought that it could possibly look at the sent from address, but then the ISP are gonna need hundreds of legal and illegal sites, which would mean that a 'human' would have to look at it, and why would virgin want to expel these resources when there is no obvious gain for them.


Well the gain would be in two places. They'd be stopping a likely bandwidth hog and those illegal films being downloaded, would now be purchesed from someone else. Virgin for example!!
#29
spic
I understand what you are saying, but a bot like this, say it was set to look at all p2p files sent by looking at the MAC header.

How would it tell the difference between me downloading a file from somewhere legally, and downloading one from somewhere illegal? I thought that it could possibly look at the sent from address, but then the ISP are gonna need hundreds of legal and illegal sites, which would mean that a 'human' would have to look at it, and why would virgin want to expel these resources when there is no obvious gain for them.


I can you with some certainty, because my dad works at virgin (nothing to do with the internet providings mind, keep your hate away from me), that they check your traffic, where you get your content from, if you are using blacklisted services, what filetypes you are downloading among more things.

So if their bot notices that you have a lot in common with an illegal content downloader then you get investigated, no idea how long this takes. If you're found to be guilty they'll let you know and keep a closer eye on you.

They started to cap our internet speed whenever we had more than 5gb of traffic per day. Luckily my dad stormed into work, we got some weird speed testing program and voila no more capping or monitoring. Unfortunately it isnt as easy for the average consumer.

EDIT: And as Guv just said, Virgin reallllly dont like bandwidth hoggers.
#30
Thanks for all the info guys. I think I may just switch to o2 as it will be a fair bit cheaper and although it isn't fibre optic I should be getting similar speeds most of time. Also virgin have ****** me off many times before so would be glad to leave them finally.
1 Like #31
don't know if this help's anyone but if i want to catch up with my lastest us tv shows i watch them on this site http://www.surfthechannel.com/ hope this help's x
#32
Skafairy
don't know if this help's anyone but if i want to catch up with my lastest us tv shows i watch them on this site http://www.surfthechannel.com/ hope this help's x


I like to stream my tv shows to my 360 so I can watch them on my big tv so i require the actual files but thanks for the link anyway :thumbsup:
#33
I've signed up with an SSL service, once you have downloaded the client, your ENTIRE connection is encrypted.
Your ISP nor anybody else has any idea what you are doing.
#34
guv
. Don't know enough on the subject to say if Virgin could intercept the content and unencrypt, but my gut feeling is they couldn't
!


an engineer from virgin ages ago told me theres method for doing this very thing being worked on, make of that what you will, just wha i got told when i was enquiring if he himself downloaded illegaly.
#35
kungfu
just wha i got told when i was enquiring if he himself downloaded illegaly.


Downloading, in the UK, is not illegal :thumbsup: It's the uploading that is illegal :)
banned#36
robster113
Thanks for all the info guys. I think I may just switch to o2 as it will be a fair bit cheaper and although it isn't fibre optic I should be getting similar speeds most of time. Also virgin have ****** me off many times before so would be glad to leave them finally.


It won't make any difference, it was the BPI that caught you - and it would have happened whichever ISP you were with at the time.
banned#37
peodude
Downloading, in the UK, is not illegal :thumbsup: It's the uploading that is illegal :)


Depends how you class illegal
Downloading is a civil offence
Uploading (sharing) is a criminal offence that (in theory) you can go to jail for.
suspended#38
...and it is not Virgin Media's fault. If they do not take action they are also at risk of prosecution.

(The Times Online; one year ago)

"Internet users could be banned over illegal downloads"

Francis Eliott, Deputy Political Editor
---
People who illegally download films and music will be cut off from the internet under new legislative proposals to be unveiled next week.

Internet service providers (ISPs) will be legally required to take action against users who access pirated material, The Times has learnt.

Users suspected of wrongly downloading films or music will receive a warning e-mail for the first offence, a suspension for the second infringement and the termination of their internet contract if caught a third time, under the most likely option to emerge from discussions about the new law.

Broadband companies who fail to enforce the “three-strikes” regime would be prosecuted and suspected customers’ details could be made available to the courts. The Government has yet to decide if information on offenders should be shared between ISPs.
...
---


PS. What was the exact file that you had accessed, and from where?

PPS. Using Point-to-Point sharing techniques may well be classed as "uploading" if referred to in a court case.

BFN,

fp.
#39
Virgin Media have free usenet.

Hasnt been mentioned. They have 7 day binary retention, so if you get your films, games, tv shows etc within 7 days of release you should be happy.
#40
Virgin come down a bit harder on it's users, as Virgin also makes the media that is being pirated.

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