Who will be the winners and losers with proposed NHS changes? - HotUKDeals
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Who will be the winners and losers with proposed NHS changes?

WoolyM Avatar
5y, 8m agoPosted 5 years, 8 months ago
This is one of the major policies of the government. But it was not discussed prior to the General Election.

What do people really think about the proposed reforms?
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WoolyM Avatar
5y, 8m agoPosted 5 years, 8 months ago
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#1
I don't think anyone (including the politicians themselves) really know what it's going to end up meaning. It could be that the new GP groups that will handle the money turn against the private sector for the majority of treatments. Or you could have, as has been mentioned in the press, that the private sector 'cherry pick' the most valuable and profitable parts of the health service, thus leaving what's left of the NHS to fund the bits that aren't as 'worthwhile'.
1 Like #2
I think the reforms are just a way for the big private health companies to drain off money from the NHS and the way the Government is ignoring public opinion and the views of experts to push this garbage is criminal.
#3
I heard something to the effect that its all about giving more choice.
Everyone supposedly will be able to go to any GP anywhere in the country and thus this will give people the power to move elsewhere if they dont feel they are being provided for at their local GP.
In reality, I dont feel it can happen.
Those who are most in need of assistance will be less attractive as potential patients thus meaning those who need care will have less choice than the healthy. Those who need hospital services will find it very difficult if their GP is not really fighting their cause and they will find it challenging to move to get treatment elsewhere unless it is private. IMO
#4
I don't know how the current plan differs from the white paper but here is a youtube video of someone explaining the white paper when it was published and it's introduction of privatization in the NHS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNiruX2gZDc
#5
Also several of the key figures in these 'reforms' have received large cash donations to their private offices from healthcare and healthcare related businesses who will be benefiting directly from these changes.
[helper]#6
Loser will be the tax payer - winner if there is one might be private health care or possibley GPS. I had assumed GPs would be the winners - they are private contractors who work for the NHS and would quite happily pocket the extra money if they save any. However there are (supposedly) guidelines that prevent them from doing so but whether these guidelines work in practice remains to be seen.

On the other hand GPs are being asked to take on management/commissioning roles many of them don't want to do (they became GPs because they want to be GPs not NHS managers). GPs will claim to govt that the GPs need more money (because they are doing an extra 500 hours management work) when in reality they will just employ a manager and pocket the difference in salary.

The downside for the GPs is at the moment they can blame PCTs for not providing some of the more costly drugs etc but in the future they are the ones with the responsibility.
#7
Ungreat
Also several of the key figures in these 'reforms' have received large cash donations to their private offices from healthcare and healthcare related businesses who will be benefiting directly from these changes.

You forgot the link


Andrew Lansley bankrolled by private healthcare provider
#8
It all seems to be a way of selling more healthcare insurance. I dont know the answer, but my gut tells me that some of the government ministers or their family members may well be huge beneficiarys in all of this.
If you are one of the many families whose budgets are so stretched they will not be able to take out private healthcare or opt for top ups then they had better hope they dont get ill.

Edited By: WoolyM on Mar 13, 2011 13:30: cant write
#9
GPs - up here in deepest, darkest Scotland in any case, have already been given way too much leeway in their own dealings.

They were allowed to opt-out of doing on-call if it suited them, if they remained on-call - they didn't even have to drive themselves anywhere, and are in fact driven around by an appointed NHS chauffeur, with a healthy payment made for being on-call to boot. Their salaries were also increased to a ridiculous amount, whilst other heathcare worker's salaries remained unchanged. Here's to a classless society!
[mod][Moderator] 2 Likes #10
NHS staff and the general public will be the biggest losers, private healthcare will be the biggest winners.
#11
It seemed to have worked with the forests

Right now, the government is pushing through changes to our health service which could spell the end of the NHS as we know it. Meanwhile, a funding squeeze means wards are closing and doctors and nurses are being laid off.

Together, we can stop this and save our health service for future generations. We proved that huge petition can help make the government back down. Now, we need to do the same again to save our NHS.

Sign the petition above to make sure that David Cameron knows how much we care about our health services.
Petition Link
1 Like #12
You lot voted them in and now, They've screwed the military, They've screwed the NHS and they've screwed YOU.
#13
The reforms are gona cause long lasting damage to an essential public service. These are ideological changes - nothing to do with improving efficiency etc.

Why on earth did people vote for the tories...
#14
roryk83
The reforms are gona cause long lasting damage to an essential public service. These are ideological changes - nothing to do with improving efficiency etc.

Why on earth did people vote for the tories...


Well, shauneco seems to think you voted them in as well as everyone else - so it's your fault.
1 Like #15
moob
roryk83
The reforms are gona cause long lasting damage to an essential public service. These are ideological changes - nothing to do with improving efficiency etc.

Why on earth did people vote for the tories...


Well, shauneco seems to think you voted them in as well as everyone else - so it's your fault.


Perhap's I should refraze it, A majority voted them in, Then again it's a coalition so anyone who voted anyone but labour voted them in, They make the changes and just state "it's labours fault" so easy to blame someone else, Those clowns will screw us up big time.
#16
Well if you do feel strongly that the proposed changes are wrong, and I believe their are many that do, consider joining the demo on Saturday 26th March in London. Make your feelings known. People are being encouraged to join from across society.

A huge turnout will make politicians worry about their positions. It may even cause a rethink.
It is NOT the only way forward.
You do have a say.
#17
On a similar note, not sure if anyone saw last weeks Dispatches (Link if you missed on 4od). It was about the huge about of debt we have as a country and so what would we like to sell to reduce this debt, reduce our interest payments and move forward. Oddly, no-one wanted to cut any service (except a Tory who thought that privatisation was the way forward for everything and has never failed us in a big way like the railways).

Everyone knows something needs to give, but no-one wants to cut a service. Something has to give, somewhere.
#18
Well just noticed this as one of the comments on the petition..........

The NHS was set up specifically for the poor - you know, the ones who can't afford private health care. It was not set up for the rich elite to pick over & divide up between themselves for profit. So my message to this government is - 'leave our Health Service well alone'.

I think it pretty much covers the point.
Petition now has more than 89,000 signatures
Seems that a few DO actually care.
#19
one of the latest petition comments

I am a nurse, we are absolutely overwhelmed by all the cuts. In 31 years of nursing I have never known things as bad as they are today. I cannot work any harder, I am absolutely exhausted at the end of every shift. We NEED more nurses at the " coal face" to provide the care that people deserve. I have never in all my career cried at work as much as I have done over the last few months, please please do not push any more changes through before speaking to the nurses actually working on wards. The matrons just protect their own backs, rarely visit the wards and never help us out!

Over 91,000 signatures now
#20
Getting close to 100,000 signatures now.
A selection of comments from the petition

A period of ill health has made me rather dependent on the health service in recent years. I am of working age. Its not just old people that get ill. I was glad that when I needed it, the help has been available. I dread just what this term of government may do to the NHS for those who depend on it.

I am a GP and strongly oppose these reform ideas!

I am a direct recipient of the NHS and i still rely on it to this day, if there had been no NHS when I needed it then I would not be here today, what this government is doing to the NHS is nothing but vandalism and criminal.

As a future doctor looking to a fulfilling career in the NHS, I am deeply concerned that the proposed reforms far from rectifying inefficiency, will exacerbate them and make the NHS host to greater health inequality, poorer management, greater waste of resources and, most importantly, worse patient care. I am proud to be a medical student in a country that can boast of it's NHS, I don't want to lose this fantastic service to such huge and rapid reformations at a time of financial cutbacks, especially when said reformations are improperly piloted and questionably motivated. This is not what the NHS needs or wants.

The NHS is a defining feature of a caring society and is one thing that has continued to champion the UK as a free and caring society. We are all aware of the economic realaties, however I increasingly feel there are people intent on dismantllng this for the benefit of their or their sponsors gain.

I am a GP and very unhappy about these changes

I would be in a wheelchair if it weren't for the NHS. There would have been no way that my impoverished birth family could have paid for medical fees or medical insurance.

We need to build on the NHS as it is, not dismantle it. Otherwise, we could easily find ourselves in the situation that some Polish people find themselves in. If they are lucky enough to afford GP, they have to beg outside Chemists in the hope that someone who is well off will give them monies to pay for the drugs prescribed. Going into hospital is not an option.

I am very concerned about what will happen to elderly patients if their care is handed over to private companies. There are already diffficulties caring for the elderly within the NHS and surely these problems will be far worse if the health service pursues profit above care. Why not improve what we have instead of wasting money creating new structures and organisations? I work for the NHS. My pay is poor, my responsibilities disproportionate to my reward. I do not want to be exploited by a privately owned profit making corporation. I am proud to work in the NHS and pleased to share the skills I have. I am critical of some areas of care within the NHS and my family have been treated both extremely well and very badly. So improve what we have and do not squandor our expertise and resources.

I work in the NHS & am very concerned that constant organisational change absorbs time money & resources & negatively affects moral whilst achieving little. The most scary thing though is that some services may be or downgraded or lost altogether because the bodies taking a strategic overview have been removed & GP commissioners may go to the cheapest provider even if this is a private one offering an isolated service rather than the integrated one available in the NHS. How will large Trusts be able to balance the books when easy profitable work is being creamed off by private providers?


Petition Link
#21
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decades

meh
#22
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh

No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know.
If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.
#23
WoolyM
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh


No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know.
If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.


yeah sorry, not seen this before, not living it right now, not been involved in it since last year,

its just name changing, ooh look the PCTs I look after have split into two, with all the same staff and the manager titles have all changed to "Clinical" managers, which means they won't lose their jobs, ready to become the GP Consortia "Commissioning" and Community Services (Foundation Trust), so whats changed/gonna change not much.........................
banned#24
WoolyM
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh


No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know.
If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.


That would be the healthcare system that has been keeping more and more people alive for longer and longer even after they may have long retired and don't actually contribute a huge amount to the economy?

The same healthcare system that puts me in line with everyone else DESPITE my needing to work so that I can pay taxes so that the people ahead of me in the queue can actually get healthcare, even if they don't work.

The healthcare system that I pay for, but then bizarrely asks me for £7.20 for medication because I have the audacity to work for a living?

Destruction maybe a strong word, but can we maybe just mutiliate it a little bit? Cut off a few unsightly growths?
#25
FilthAndFurry
WoolyM
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh
No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know. If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.
That would be the healthcare system that has been keeping more and more people alive for longer and longer even after they may have long retired and don't actually contribute a huge amount to the economy?The same healthcare system that puts me in line with everyone else DESPITE my needing to work so that I can pay taxes so that the people ahead of me in the queue can actually get healthcare, even if they don't work.The healthcare system that I pay for, but then bizarrely asks me for £7.20 for medication because I have the audacity to work for a living?Destruction maybe a strong word, but can we maybe just mutiliate it a little bit? Cut off a few unsightly growths?

If you want to start a campaign for enforced euthanasia then go ahead in another thread. I am sure that you will not garner the same degree of support as the save the NHS campaign
#26
Alfonse
WoolyM
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh
No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know. If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.
yeah sorry, not seen this before, not living it right now, not been involved in it since last year,its just name changing, ooh look the PCTs I look after have split into two, with all the same staff and the manager titles have all changed to "Clinical" managers, which means they won't lose their jobs, ready to become the GP Consortia "Commissioning" and Community Services (Foundation Trust), so whats changed/gonna change not much.........................

OK, so you may be in possesion of the facts. If you move to a private model, its not just decisions made based on clinical need as we have at present. Its decisions made based on insurance cover or profit levels.

If you listen to the doctors who are providing care and they are dismayed its something to really take on board. In countries where there is a private model, even if clinical need can be proven, procedures are often denied by insurance companies who routinely reject claims to maximise profits for their companies.
banned#27
WoolyM
FilthAndFurry
WoolyM
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh
No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know. If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.
That would be the healthcare system that has been keeping more and more people alive for longer and longer even after they may have long retired and don't actually contribute a huge amount to the economy?The same healthcare system that puts me in line with everyone else DESPITE my needing to work so that I can pay taxes so that the people ahead of me in the queue can actually get healthcare, even if they don't work.The healthcare system that I pay for, but then bizarrely asks me for £7.20 for medication because I have the audacity to work for a living?Destruction maybe a strong word, but can we maybe just mutiliate it a little bit? Cut off a few unsightly growths?


If you want to start a campaign for enforced euthanasia then go ahead in another thread. I am sure that you will not garner the same degree of support as the save the NHS campaign


Oh that's right. Someone disagrees and they want to kill granny.

What I was actually pointing out is that when you keep people alive for longer, you have certain consequences. These consequences tend to need money, and money trees are in short order.
#28
WoolyM

OK, so you may be in possesion of the facts. If you move to a private model, its not just decisions made based on clinical need as we have at present. Its decisions made based on insurance cover or profit levels.

If you listen to the doctors who are providing care and they are dismayed its something to really take on board. In countries where there is a private model, even if clinical need can be proven, procedures are often denied by insurance companies who routinely reject claims to maximise profits for their companies.


The same was said when the PCTs split up last time, the Doctors/staff where I work are of the same thinking its another merger/split process which isn't needed, the stationery costs of re-badging are amazing
banned#29
WoolyM
Alfonse
WoolyM
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh
No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know. If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.
yeah sorry, not seen this before, not living it right now, not been involved in it since last year,its just name changing, ooh look the PCTs I look after have split into two, with all the same staff and the manager titles have all changed to "Clinical" managers, which means they won't lose their jobs, ready to become the GP Consortia "Commissioning" and Community Services (Foundation Trust), so whats changed/gonna change not much.........................


OK, so you may be in possesion of the facts. If you move to a private model, its not just decisions made based on clinical need as we have at present. Its decisions made based on insurance cover or profit levels.

If you listen to the doctors who are providing care and they are dismayed its something to really take on board. In countries where there is a private model, even if clinical need can be proven, procedures are often denied by insurance companies who routinely reject claims to maximise profits for their companies.


You mean that treatment can be subject to cost.

And this cost could be met by some insurance companies and not others?

Wow. That must make it a sort of 'lottery' if I could be so crass as to use such a term.

Plus some insurance companies only cover certain areas. That means zip codes (or postcodes) play a part in determining treatment.

So what you're really warning people of is (and I apologise again for the use of the term) a 'postcode lottery'.

Well, you've convinced me.
#30
FilthAndFurry
WoolyM
FilthAndFurry
WoolyM
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh
No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know. If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.
That would be the healthcare system that has been keeping more and more people alive for longer and longer even after they may have long retired and don't actually contribute a huge amount to the economy?The same healthcare system that puts me in line with everyone else DESPITE my needing to work so that I can pay taxes so that the people ahead of me in the queue can actually get healthcare, even if they don't work.The healthcare system that I pay for, but then bizarrely asks me for £7.20 for medication because I have the audacity to work for a living?Destruction maybe a strong word, but can we maybe just mutiliate it a little bit? Cut off a few unsightly growths?
If you want to start a campaign for enforced euthanasia then go ahead in another thread. I am sure that you will not garner the same degree of support as the save the NHS campaign
Oh that's right. Someone disagrees and they want to kill granny.What I was actually pointing out is that when you keep people alive for longer, you have certain consequences. These consequences tend to need money, and money trees are in short order.

Which is precisely why those with the greater means should be called on at this present time to increase their contribution. Sorry I know you dont like this as it relates to you and your banker friends but if you want to live with the benefits of a society you should be prepared to stand up and be counted in other ways.
#31
FilthAndFurry
WoolyM
Alfonse
WoolyM
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh
No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know. If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.
yeah sorry, not seen this before, not living it right now, not been involved in it since last year,its just name changing, ooh look the PCTs I look after have split into two, with all the same staff and the manager titles have all changed to "Clinical" managers, which means they won't lose their jobs, ready to become the GP Consortia "Commissioning" and Community Services (Foundation Trust), so whats changed/gonna change not much.........................
OK, so you may be in possesion of the facts. If you move to a private model, its not just decisions made based on clinical need as we have at present. Its decisions made based on insurance cover or profit levels. If you listen to the doctors who are providing care and they are dismayed its something to really take on board. In countries where there is a private model, even if clinical need can be proven, procedures are often denied by insurance companies who routinely reject claims to maximise profits for their companies.
You mean that treatment can be subject to cost.And this cost could be met by some insurance companies and not others?Wow. That must make it a sort of 'lottery' if I could be so crass as to use such a term.Plus some insurance companies only cover certain areas. That means zip codes (or postcodes) play a part in determining treatment.So what you're really warning people of is (and I apologise again for the use of the term) a 'postcode lottery'.Well, you've convinced me.

I can refer you to a site I frequent where it gives prime examples of the differences between the UK NHS model and the model in the USA. Read for yourself what the people who are affected say
Link
banned#32
WoolyM
FilthAndFurry
WoolyM
FilthAndFurry
WoolyM
Alfonse
lol, its just a name changing excercise PCT to GP Consortia, The PCTs are always being broken up/merged in some cyclical fashion over the years/decadesmeh
No this is about destruction of the model of healthcare we have come to know. If have abbsolutely no financial concerns this will not have any effect on you. For everyone else this has life changing consequences.
That would be the healthcare system that has been keeping more and more people alive for longer and longer even after they may have long retired and don't actually contribute a huge amount to the economy?The same healthcare system that puts me in line with everyone else DESPITE my needing to work so that I can pay taxes so that the people ahead of me in the queue can actually get healthcare, even if they don't work.The healthcare system that I pay for, but then bizarrely asks me for £7.20 for medication because I have the audacity to work for a living?Destruction maybe a strong word, but can we maybe just mutiliate it a little bit? Cut off a few unsightly growths?
If you want to start a campaign for enforced euthanasia then go ahead in another thread. I am sure that you will not garner the same degree of support as the save the NHS campaign
Oh that's right. Someone disagrees and they want to kill granny.What I was actually pointing out is that when you keep people alive for longer, you have certain consequences. These consequences tend to need money, and money trees are in short order.


Which is precisely why those with the greater means should be called on at this present time to increase their contribution. Sorry I know you dont like this as it relates to you and your banker friends but if you want to live with the benefits of a society you should be prepared to stand up and be counted in other ways.


You know what, people at the top end did increase their contribution. Now we have the possibility of HSBC moving away from the city partly because of this. I know people who have moved abroad because of this and these aren't people who are easily (if at all) replaced.

Also, I am sure there are plenty of differences between the US and UK model, but there is also a difference in the mentality of the people. There is a greater understanding over there that you don't get something for nothing and if you want better services then you have to pay for them. But you can't fleece the top earners because however much you dislike trickle down economics, it does have a certain impact.

Personally, I'd increase the age of retirement to something like 72-74. People are living longer, which means they can work longer. Then I'd re-invest the savings into education and reduce the costs to businesses starting up or moving into the country.
#33
Well you know what, at some point people will be actually be called to account if they have the means to make a greater contribution and it is obvious that they prefer to shat on others rather than doing the right thing.

I am not a revolutionary, far from it. But those at lower levels in society do not have the means to keep shelling out. That is why in a society it is necessary to follow a slightly different model and call on those with the greater means to do more.

Finance cushions the blows but when the divide between rich and poor the world over seems to be increasing, at some point extra finance will not equate to security. At least not without a personal securty force in your employ. But all of this is for a different thread.
banned#34
WoolyM
Well you know what, at some point people will be actually be called to account if they have the means to make a greater contribution and it is obvious that they prefer to shat on others rather than doing the right thing.


You don't think 50% of someone's earnings is a decent enough contribution? You don't think that half of what someone WORKS for is enough?

Do you perhaps have a different answer for paying our national debts? Or is it just tax those horrible rich people who earn 'too much'?
#35
Either the petition site is overwhelmed at the moment or is under attack.
Its got to be close to 100,000 signatures now or more.
#36
Ok so you talk in terms of how much is being taken from you. How about how much is left after deductions.
That is the very real prospect that faces SO MANY.
So should I feel sorry for you in such circumstances. You decide.
banned#37
WoolyM
Ok so you talk in terms of how much is being taken from you. How about how much is left after deductions.
That is the very real prospect that faces SO MANY.
So should I feel sorry for you in such circumstances. You decide.


I don't want people to feel sorry for me or anyone. But high-earners have a limit and if you tax them too much, they don't suffer more.

At home they reduce the amount they spend which reduces the VAT they pay, or they maybe stop hiring a cleaner. That's one more person out of a job.

And if they run a business, 9 times out of 10 if they have to reduce costs and it comes down to a lease on an Audi or an intern in their first job, well maybe when that young kid is fired he can get a job cleaning his ex-boss's car.
#38
FilthAndFurry
WoolyM
Ok so you talk in terms of how much is being taken from you. How about how much is left after deductions. That is the very real prospect that faces SO MANY. So should I feel sorry for you in such circumstances. You decide.
I don't want people to feel sorry for me or anyone. But high-earners have a limit and if you tax them too much, they don't suffer more. At home they reduce the amount they spend which reduces the VAT they pay, or they maybe stop hiring a cleaner. That's one more person out of a job.And if they run a business, 9 times out of 10 if they have to reduce costs and it comes down to a lease on an Audi or an intern in their first job, well maybe when that young kid is fired he can get a job cleaning his ex-boss's car.

Everyone in society has a limit and that is what you do not want to take on board.
But there is enough available in soceity as a whole. So maybe the mathmatical model that is being employed at the moment needs tweaking
banned#39
WoolyM
FilthAndFurry
WoolyM
Ok so you talk in terms of how much is being taken from you. How about how much is left after deductions. That is the very real prospect that faces SO MANY. So should I feel sorry for you in such circumstances. You decide.
I don't want people to feel sorry for me or anyone. But high-earners have a limit and if you tax them too much, they don't suffer more. At home they reduce the amount they spend which reduces the VAT they pay, or they maybe stop hiring a cleaner. That's one more person out of a job.And if they run a business, 9 times out of 10 if they have to reduce costs and it comes down to a lease on an Audi or an intern in their first job, well maybe when that young kid is fired he can get a job cleaning his ex-boss's car.


Everyone in society has a limit and that is what you do not want to take on board.
But there is enough available in soceity as a whole. So maybe the mathmatical model that is being employed at the moment needs tweaking


The 'mathematical model' being used is 'you earn what you are worth'. What someone is 'worth' is based on the best method that we have - capitalism. It's not perfect, but it's the best we have.

Again though, you're not coming up with many alternatives. It's not your fault though. It seems to be quite common amongst the people moaning/protesting.They want less public service cuts or cheaper petrol without saying how they'd pay for it.

A common answer seems to be taxing the rich. Fine. That should be fun. Let's tax them 90%.

But then you have a problem that there are no 'rich' left. They emigrated (or they stayed behind and were taxed so much that they aren't rich anymore).

And then you go into work on Monday, but the office is empty. The boss has left apparently. Who knew he was rich? And he's started up a company in his new country and the person now doing your job is actually paid less than you. Score!

I don't know what it is about this place which makes me come over all right-wing and silly, but it seems that people wilfully ignore reality sometimes.
#40
Recent comments ........
The NHS is improving. It should not be burdened with this huge change which nobody voted for.

14 Mar 2011, 12:37PM
The NHS is invaluable and totally priceless. Do not destroy it to cut costs. You cannot put a value on people's lives.

14 Mar 2011, 12:37PM
High approval ratings, the most efficient high-value health-care system according to the Commonwealth Fund report 2010, fastest reduction in heart attack deaths in Europe. What is the case for wholesale reform?

14 Mar 2011, 12:37PM
State funded medical care is paramount to a civilised society. Please do not privatise our NHS!

14 Mar 2011, 12:37PM
Are this government actually from this planet? If it wasn't for the NHS and the wonderful doctors and nurses I wouldn't be here today. I wouldn't have been able to afford any treatment

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