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Wireless Router Help

Supalynz Avatar
8y, 5d agoPosted 8 years, 5 days ago
Im looking to set up a wireless connection at home so I can get my main desktop PC, laptop, wii and xbox online. We have bought one of those wireless dongle things for the xbox (the hot one this month) wii has wifi already i believe and my laptop has a wireless modem inside.

As far as I can tell i will need to buy a router with DSL, because i can't plug my BB USB modem into a standard router, is this right?

Also I have been told routers with WPA or WPA2 encryption is the best as opposed to WEP, does anyone know if WPA/2 is compatible with the Xbox or Wii?

And then onto the Networking bit. The wii and xbox don't need to be networked they just pick up the internet signals from the router and then just need the encryption password putting in when prompted, again can anyone confirm?

My main PC doesn't have a wireless modem, but it does have a network port, so do I just hard wire an ethernet cable into that? Do I have to put my ISP details in again to get my router online?

Then to add my laptop i just turn it on and search for devices. I am told this will give my a MAC code, but what do i do with this? How do i add this to my network from then? And also im told that my router will have an IP address, which i then need to set my PC and my laptop a to except change the last number e.g PC would end in .1 and laptop end in .2?

How can i go about renaming things so when im on my laptop i can type \Downstairs to gain access to my main computer?

I'm a total, well, not total, but nearly total noob, please someone help. Have I nearly figured it?
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Supalynz Avatar
8y, 5d agoPosted 8 years, 5 days ago
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#1
Think I'll keep and eye on this thread, I haven't got a clue about wireless anything... Me and the fiance fight over the broadband, he wants to play Xbox Live and I want to mess about on the interner. I haven't got a clue about the first thing we need to go wireless, would save fighting over the internet lol
#2
Hope some one can help us then :) We have same prob in our house!:roll:
#3
Do you already have DSL at home? From what you say above it would appear not.
"As far as I can tell i will need to buy a router with DSL"... you mean you need to get DSL that includes a wireless router. You know you cant just "buy" a router that gives you DSL yeah? It's a service from a company that you need.
#4
What broadband are you on?

This can make a difference to which router you buy.

If you are on an ADSL (phone line) broadband then the router you buy normally has the modem included.

If you are on Virgin via their CABLE connection then you need a diferent type of router (one which does NOT include a modem) because you have to use the modem supplied by Virgin.

The best way to set up a router is to get the WIRED connection working first.

So you would need an ethernet cable to connect between the Router and the PC ethernet socket. If your PC was working ok via the modem then you should not need to make any changes to get it working via the router.

One extra thing. You seem to misunderstand some of the terminlogy.

You say your laptop has a "wireless modem" and you say your PC does not have a "wireless modem". It is not a "wireless modem" it is a "wireless network card"
#5
your pc will connect to the router through the ethernet cable, but you may need to set up the network for it to be seen, the service provider may give you a disc with application to run the internet

wireless is easy to set up, on back of the hub will be your encryption key,

turn on the wireless on the laptop (quite a few need you to press a button on side of laptop)

it should then try to find a network, when it finds your router, you will need the encryption key handy to insert it,
#6
You dont have to worry about Mac codes or IP address unless you want to set up between your PC and your laptop,IE send files from PC to laptop,If all you want to do is go online with you laptop you just have to let the laptop discover the network and input the password that you will have created for your router,WPA will be fine to use with the xbox and is plenty secure,When you install the router it should be set to automatically find an IP address then all you have to do is put in your broadband user name and password,Once you have evry thing ready there will be plebty of people on here willing to help,
tony
#7
>Then to add my laptop i just turn it on and search for devices. I am told this will give my
>a MAC code, but what do i do with this? How do i add this to my network from then? And
>also im told that my router will have an IP address, which i then need to set my PC and
>my laptop a to except change the last number e.g PC would end in .1 and laptop end in .2?

I have set up a wireless network in my house and did not have to do any of this.

There will be instructions with the router about how to set it up.

All routers have an ip address, so once you get the WIRED connection working you put the ip address of the router in your browser and this brings up the router user interface.

When setting up wifi you are best turning security OFF till you get it all working.

To get wireless working you set a broadcast name in your router (any name your like - "wardrobe" or whatever).

Then you turn on your laptop and have it search for wireless networks and it should find "wardrobe" or whatever you called it.

You then select "wardrobe" and you are connected to your router.

>How can i go about renaming things so when im on my laptop i can type \Downstairs to
>gain access to my main computer?

Setting up networking between your laptop and PC is not as easy as that.

There are a number of things you need to do to get it working:

1) Give both computers the same workgroup name
2) Make sure you have a shared folder on each computer
3) Set your firewall (on both PCs) so they allow each PC to get through.

But to be honest, I would get your router working first, then come back and ask us about how to set up networking between each PC.
#9
You guys are the best, thanks for all the info, now i'll try and answer some the questions.

Yes i do already have internet, i have non cable broadband from Virgin, on a BT line. Cable is not in our area, I did not get a router when i registered, i got a digi box, wrong decision thinking back now.

When i put wireless modem i did mean wireless network card :)

I do just want internet access on my fella's xbox and our wii, but i would like to fully network our main pc and laptop, so when im in bed i can access any files, programs etc, from my downstairs PC and the internet as well of course.

Routers come with firewalls i'm told but do i still need my main software firewall? I thought maybe it wouldnt protect me from any malicious software i may receive from memory sticks etc if i dint have my main one. Will they confilct if i did have them both?

Also a friend is looking in his loft for an old router he isnt using any more, i thought it might not be an ADSL one, just a basic router, can i plug my speedtouch USB BB modem into this, or is it best just to buy a new one? If so anyone reccommend any good, but cheap brands for me?

Thanks for letting me know that xbox is compatible with WPA, but is the wii?
#10
:whistling:maybe i should check for typos next time
#11
Supalynz
Routers come with firewalls i'm told but do i still need my main software firewall? I thought maybe it wouldnt protect me from any malicious software i may receive from memory sticks etc if i dint have my main one. Will they confilct if i did have them both?


Routers do come with firewalls, but they are not quite the same thing as the firewall that runs on your laptop or PC.

So you WILL need a firewall on each PC or laptop, and they WONT conflict with the one in the Router.

In fact if you are on Broadband already you should already be running a firewall on each computer.
#12
Supalynz
but i would like to fully network our main pc and laptop, so when im in bed i can access any files, programs etc, from my downstairs PC and the internet as well of course.


This is fairly easy to set up, but cannot be done till you get the router working (you use the router as a "bridge" to get from one PC to the other) so as I said, get the router working first, then get the two computers networked together.

I gave a list of some of the things you need to do to "network" the two computers, but none of this will work till the routers is in place.
#13
Right a lot there to answer, I will try my best.

You do need a wireless ADSL router for your specified needs.

The Xbox and Wii can use the WPA2-PSK (Pre Shared Secret) which is the domestic version of WPA2, for Wireless connectivity.

The best option is for your PC is to connect it via Ethernet cable (network cable) and your laptop via wireless also with WPA2-PSK, no need for sticky MACs. You do not need to input your ISP credentials on your PC or laptop again because the ADSL router does all this for you, and is constantly connected to your Broadband.

You don't have to use a software firewall, that's true personally I wouldn't, its better to have one device do one job and not create port and security issues unnecessarily.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4049/homenetworkuh5.jpg
#14
guilbert53
Routers do come with firewalls, but they are not quite the same thing as the firewall that runs on your laptop or PC.

So you WILL need a firewall on each PC or laptop, and they WONT conflict with the one in the Router.

In fact if you are on Broadband already you should already be running a firewall on each computer.


no, no and no. :roll:
#15
Alfonse
no, no and no. :roll:


QFT.
1 Like #16
Alfonse
no, no and no. :roll:


You say you DONT need a firewall on your PC if you have one on your router.

Not what it says here (http://www.tallemu.com/webhelp3/WhyFW.html)

Q) I already have a router; do I still need a firewall?

Yes – a router is not a firewall. Routers split up an internet connection among multiple computers, so they can work as something like a basic firewall because they don’t know where to send any incoming connections that weren’t requested. Unfortunately they won’t restrict outgoing traffic in any meaningful way, and don’t block many of the tricks that an actual firewall can. The majority of internet users today have a router and/or a basic firewall, and hackers know how to work around these.

Even most so-called firewall routers can still be vulnerable to some older tricks that a personal firewall can protect against. New threats are emerging that even target routers without having to compromise your computer.

While a router does offer some basic and essential protection, it cannot provide the same level of protection as a personal firewall. Using both a router and a personal firewall together will provide the best protection.

If you have more than one computer plugged into the router then you will also want a personal firewall in the event that one of the other computers becomes infected and tries to infect yours.
1 Like #17
guilbert53
You say you DONT need a firewall on your PC if you have one on your router.

Not what it says here (http://www.tallemu.com/webhelp3/WhyFW.html)

Q) I already have a router; do I still need a firewall?

Yes – a router is not a firewall. Routers split up an internet connection among multiple computers, so they can work as something like a basic firewall because they don’t know where to send any incoming connections that weren’t requested. Unfortunately they won’t restrict outgoing traffic in any meaningful way, and don’t block many of the tricks that an actual firewall can. The majority of internet users today have a router and/or a basic firewall, and hackers know how to work around these.

Even most so-called firewall routers can still be vulnerable to some older tricks that a personal firewall can protect against. New threats are emerging that even target routers without having to compromise your computer.

While a router does offer some basic and essential protection, it cannot provide the same level of protection as a personal firewall. Using both a router and a personal firewall together will provide the best protection.

If you have more than one computer plugged into the router then you will also want a personal firewall in the event that one of the other computers becomes infected and tries to infect yours.


I never said a router is a firewall but domestic ADSL routers do have hardware firewalls which are more than adequate for domestic use and offer port blocking on IP, UDP and telnet levels. They do manage traffic in a meaningful way hence it routes traffic unlike a switch, layer 3 and layer 2 network architecture, respectively.

"Actual" firewalls are not software, Bluecoat and Nokia Checkpoint firewalls certainly aren't just pieces of software , lol.

Since I'm a Cisco CCNP, Wireless Specialist and trained in WiSM and 65xx Catalysts, managing and designing networks with LAN, WLAN and WAN architecture for the one of biggest NHS Trusts, I feel I have a little experience on the subject.

So back to the point, a domestic ADSL Router with a hardware firewall is enough for any home network, as for AV and ASW needs, yes you need them installed on the client machines. Also the firewall on the ADSL Router will still need to be configured for port forwarding for the Wii and Xbox360.

.....ah - I hear
#18
Alfonse
Right a lot there to answer, I will try my best.


Yes you did and the pic was awsome!

Thanks alot Guilbert also,:thumbsup: I will set they router up first for the wireless internet and then I will come back and ask about the networking/bridging. Better crawl before I can run eh?!

rep for you both:friends:

As for the firewall thing don't fall out guys, as far as i could see on the internet forums there is are very mixed opinions about this. Some people say the firewall router is sufficent and some dont. Some say that even if the firewall router is sufficient you should have a pc one anyway incase you get malware or whatever on external media - a flash drive, mem card, cd etc. as if you get one the firewall router wont stop things from dialing in or out. Then some people argue that you should also scan unknown media beforehand etc etc etc and on and on.

As I already have antivirus and firewall on my pc/laptop i will probs use both if i can find out that they wont conflict with eah other and the majority say they won't so......

But once again thanks very much everyone, i'll update when ive set the router up initially :-D
#19
Alfonse
Right a lot there to answer, I will try my best.

You do need a wireless ADSL router for your specified needs.

The Xbox and Wii can use the WPA2-PSK (Pre Shared Secret) which is the domestic version of WPA2, for Wireless connectivity.

The best option is for your PC is to connect it via Ethernet cable (network cable) and your laptop via wireless also with WPA2-PSK, no need for sticky MACs. You do not need to input your ISP credentials on your PC or laptop again because the ADSL router does all this for you, and is constantly connected to your Broadband.

You don't have to use a software firewall, that's true personally I wouldn't, its better to have one device do one job and not create port and security issues unnecessarily.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4049/homenetworkuh5.jpg


Alfonse
I never said a router is a firewall but domestic ADSL routers do have hardware firewalls which are more than adequate for domestic use and offer port blocking on IP, UDP and telnet levels. They do manage traffic in a meaningful way hence it routes traffic unlike a switch, layer 3 and layer 2 network architecture, respectively.

"Actual" firewalls are not software, Bluecoat and Nokia Checkpoint firewalls certainly aren't just pieces of software , lol.

Since I'm a Cisco CCNP, Wireless Specialist and trained in WiSM and 65xx Catalysts, managing and designing networks with LAN, WLAN and WAN architecture for the one of biggest NHS Trusts, I feel I have a little experience on the subject.

So back to the point, a domestic ADSL Router with a hardware firewall is enough for any home network, as for AV and ASW needs, yes you need them installed on the client machines. Also the firewall on the ADSL Router will still need to be configured for port forwarding for the Wii and Xbox360.

.....ah - I hear


I wish i had seen this before i posted above:whistling:
#20
I'm with alfonse on this one, i work in IT suppport and i get as many network problems from incorrectly used software firewalls than from malware itself.
a firewall will not stop malware coming in via drives it will only notify you if those that are in attempt to access the network, problem is the mesages are usually very cryptic and end up causing the user more confusion when a problem arises.
Your router will almost certainly have a firewall in now and windows has a basic sw firewall, no more is really necess if you are vigilent in anti-malware practices., if you aren't then you are doomed anyway.
If you have been with virgin for more than 12mths give them a call, ask for a MAC~(to allow migration to another provider) because another isp has offered you a cheaper deal and a free wireless router.(tiscali)
#21
Supalynz
As for the firewall thing don't fall out guys, as far as i could see on the internet forums there is are very mixed opinions about this.


From my point of view there is one advantage a firewall on your computer has over any firewall in the router.

I run a router at home with 3 PCs (wired) and a laptop (wireless) linked to it.

To be honest I have NO IDEA what the firewall in my router is doing. I cant see it, it has never asked me if I want to let traffic in our out, I assume it just sits there and works (but to be honest I have no idea). It may be letting dodgy programs in or out, but as I said, I have no idea.

But I also run ZoneAlarm on all my computers. Every time a program wants to contact the internet (in our out) we get a little pop up which says "do you want program x to contact the internet"

If I know what the program is I say "yes" but if I dont know I do some research to find out what it is.

Now my wife and 2 children use the internet, and if ZoneAlarm asks them if a program can contact the interent they always say Yes (as they are not very techincal).

My son, who is slighlty disabled and cant read very well, clicks "Yes" to everything so all sorts of things appear on our computer.

Running ZoneAlarm means that I can sit at each computer and see EXACTLY what programs my family have been allowing access to the internet. If I seen one I dont recognise then I research it, and if I dont like it I can uninstall it.

On a regular basis I go into ZoneAlarm and remove the entry for EVERY PROGRAM that has been given access to the internet, and start with a clean slate (I dont actually uninstall the program, I just delete the entry from Zone Alarm which says it can access the internet).

ZoneAlarm gives me the power to do this, the firewall on my router gives me no power at all as far as I can see.

THAT is why I use a firewall on each of my computers.
#22
Okay, okay, I hear you mang.

Now you describe a classic issue with s/w firewalls on home networks, you need to manage each client machine individually and not from a central location. With a little reading and research you can discover what your ADSL router f/w can do for you and block/unblock ports as necessary for any of your clients individually and on mine I can block websites by address or category per IP address or globally.

Zone Alarm does do firewall protection to a degree but really its a O/S program filter even if its not for the internet and it bugs you with pop ups, a good AV and A Spyware prog is all that is necessary. A central management solution would be a better choice and much less of a headache as well as being time consuming for you, of course its your choice to take up my advice but by all means PM me if you wish.
#23
maddogb
I'm with alfonse on this one, i work in IT suppport and i get as many network problems from incorrectly used software firewalls than from malware itself.
a firewall will not stop malware coming in via drives it will only notify you if those that are in attempt to access the network, problem is the mesages are usually very cryptic and end up causing the user more confusion when a problem arises.
Your router will almost certainly have a firewall in now and windows has a basic sw firewall, no more is really necess if you are vigilent in anti-malware practices., if you aren't then you are doomed anyway.
If you have been with virgin for more than 12mths give them a call, ask for a MAC~(to allow migration to another provider) because another isp has offered you a cheaper deal and a free wireless router.(tiscali)


So are you saying move provider to get a free router? I'm not sure any are better ISP's for me atm. For a non cable BB with unlimited download usage.
#24
Supalynz
So are you saying move provider to get a free router? I'm not sure any are better ISP's for me atm. For a non cable BB with unlimited download usage.


not necess, but be prepared to if you want to maintain the bluff to get a better deal and a free router!
i did this some months ago with bt, they dropped my monthly payment by £7. and sent me a free wifi router!
#25
Just getting a MAC code doesn't mean that you have to move providers. It expires after 30 days, so once you get the MAC code just wait and see if they call you to offer you a deal to keep you as a customer. If they don't, just throw the MAC away. No harm no foul
#26
Supalynz
As far as I can tell i will need to buy a router with DSL, because i can't plug my BB USB modem into a standard router, is this right?

Yes, USB is nasty and you're unlikely to find anything that'll let you plug a USB modem.

Supalynz
And then onto the Networking bit. The wii and xbox don't need to be networked they just pick up the internet signals from the router and then just need the encryption password putting in when prompted, again can anyone confirm?

It sounds like you're talking about filesharing rather than networking here. They will need to be connected to the network to receive the internet and connecting to that network will just consist of selecting it in a list (or putting it's name in) and then putting in the wireless network password.

Supalynz

My main PC doesn't have a wireless modem, but it does have a network port, so do I just hard wire an ethernet cable into that?

Nope, no wiring required. You just plug the ethernet cable into the PC and plug the other end into the modem and the PC will be connected to the network. No password is required since you can't hack into a cable from a distance.

Supalynz
Do I have to put my ISP details in again to get my router online?

You may possibly have to put your ISP details into your router to let it access the internet, although some seem to be able to get them automatically.

Supalynz
Then to add my laptop i just turn it on and search for devices. I am told this will give my a MAC code, but what do i do with this? How do i add this to my network from then? And also im told that my router will have an IP address, which i then need to set my PC and my laptop a to except change the last number e.g PC would end in .1 and laptop end in .2?

Not really, connecting the laptop to the internet is exactly the same procedure as connecting to the consoles.

IP addresses will automatically sort themselves out and you don't need to worry about them initially (although you may have to set fixed ones for hosting online games).

A MAC address is a unique code for each piece of hardware, you can use them to increase security by setting the router to only allow the mac codes of your hardware. Most people don't bother though and just use the wifi password.

Supalynz
How can i go about renaming things so when im on my laptop i can type \Downstairs to gain access to my main computer?

I've never quite worked this one out myself, but I believe you can use filesharing (if you just want to be able to access some files on the other computer) or remote desktop (if you want to be able to control the other computer as if you were sitting at it).



Supalynz
Routers come with firewalls i'm told but do i still need my main software firewall? I thought maybe it wouldnt protect me from any malicious software i may receive from memory sticks etc if i dint have my main one. Will they confilct if i did have them both?

Some routers come with firewalls, some don't. However, you network will be set up using something called NAT and a side-effect of this setup is that nobody can initiate a connection to a computer on your network from the internet which is one of the main functions of a firewall. However, there's nothing stopping nasty programs on your computer from sending any gathered data back through the internet, which is why a software firewall may be useful. The debate over whether it is useful or not centres on the issue of how easily a virus can disable it. Some viruses will have the same the same control over the computer as you do and if you run as an administrator they'll have no problem disabling the firewall, it may be worth running for other viruses that exploit holes that don't allow them full access though.

Supalynz
Also a friend is looking in his loft for an old router he isnt using any more, i thought it might not be an ADSL one, just a basic router, can i plug my speedtouch USB BB modem into this, or is it best just to buy a new one?

You'd have to check the router, but like I said above USB is generally not very nice in these things so it's unlikely.

Supalynz
If so anyone reccommend any good, but cheap brands for me?


I don't think there are any luxury home routers right now, only mainstream and cheap. The higher priced ones tend to be newer technology. Netgear, Linksys and D-link are all fairly well thought of in general.

Supalynz
So are you saying move provider to get a free router? I'm not sure any are better ISP's for me atm. For a non cable BB with unlimited download usage.


BT doesn't provided unlimited usage on their packages for new customers, I think the highest they offer is 40GB/month. So you might not have unlimited usage now.

If you're happy with your ISP I wouldn't switch.

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