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Woman finds £20 and pockets it then gets caught and convicted of theft

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She had the opportunity to be truthful when first questioned by police but denied it and only later when shown CCTV she accepted her dishonesty And she has sympathisers....wtf Theft is theft. Y… Read More
philphil61 Avatar
2m, 3w agoPosted 2 months, 3 weeks ago
She had the opportunity to be truthful when first questioned by police but denied it and only later when shown CCTV she accepted her dishonesty

And she has sympathisers....wtf

Theft is theft. Yes our justice system is flawed in that others would of got off with a caution or less

But sympathisers

I'm no angel - I've been "a very naughty boy" years ago and "paid the price" but I never sought or got any sympathy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-39129975

and for non BBC users ;)
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/outpouring-of-sympathy-for-woman-23-taken-to-court-for-pocketing-20-she-found-in-blurton-shop/story-30169263-detail/story.html
philphil61 Avatar
2m, 3w agoPosted 2 months, 3 weeks ago
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(5)
banned 20 Likes
haritori
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.
My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.
anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..
"so what did you spend the money on"?
I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(

You should have told the police & got him nicked for theft ;)
17 Likes
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.

My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.

anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..

"so what did you spend the money on"?

I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(
10 Likes
A lawyer was on LBC radio this morning explaining the various aspect as to why it was stealing. However he said that it was very harsh why that the police did not deal with it as a caution. Lastly, he said that it was not a good use of police time and costs to take a first-time offender to court for £20 theft when the court and the police are both under-resourced and are suffering tremendous cost cutting especially when there are more pressing cases to deal with.
.
The shop had to prepare for video evidence, witness statements.
The police had to prepare for interview, statement, prosecution files...
The court administration had to process this case and to administer the digital/paper work and offender's register...
Court Hearing and all subsequent data storage, IT infrastructure and record keeping.
...
all in all not far off £10k for £20!

Edited By: splender on Mar 01, 2017 23:51
8 Likes
haritori
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.
My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.
anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..
"so what did you spend the money on"?
I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(
That is really mean. :(

Straight out of a Dickens novel. :D
6 Likes
Well if she gave it to the shop they would of just pocketed it. No sympathy, but no condemnation of her either.

I would hand a wallet or whatever in but cash, is different, whoever you give it to will keep it and if you give it directly to the police no one is walking into a police station asking about a fiver they lost.

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1 Like #1
And no I wouldn't of kept it

20+ years ago I found a £5 and I handed it in to the local police and weeks later I collected that unclaimed fiver

And 3 years ago I saw a nice mountain bike dumped in bushes near me - I called the police to alert them

Edited By: philphil61 on Mar 01, 2017 22:17
6 Likes #2
Well if she gave it to the shop they would of just pocketed it. No sympathy, but no condemnation of her either.

I would hand a wallet or whatever in but cash, is different, whoever you give it to will keep it and if you give it directly to the police no one is walking into a police station asking about a fiver they lost.
17 Likes #3
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.

My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.

anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..

"so what did you spend the money on"?

I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(
banned 20 Likes #4
haritori
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.
My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.
anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..
"so what did you spend the money on"?
I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(

You should have told the police & got him nicked for theft ;)
8 Likes #5
haritori
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.
My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.
anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..
"so what did you spend the money on"?
I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(
That is really mean. :(

Straight out of a Dickens novel. :D
4 Likes #6
haritori
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.
My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.
anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..
"so what did you spend the money on"?
I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(
Soap his top step X)
5 Likes #7
YouDontWantToKnow
haritori
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.
My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.
anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..
"so what did you spend the money on"?
I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(
You should have told the police & got him nicked for theft ;)

I was terrified of him at that age, so i never questioned it with him just accepted it..

he was the type to buy me a megadrive adn a load of games and show everyone what a great christmas i had, and by march he sold the lot.. so even if he give me the £200 he would of had it back a few months later, at least this way it cut out the middleman and heartbreak.

But I replied to that policeman, I said "oh my dad didnt tell give it me", and I remember the copper saying not to worry and patting me head, he was a nice guy.. my stepdad dealt with the police everyday as it was pretty dodgy pub, so im sure it was brought up, so I do hope it humiliated him a little, but he would of charmed/BS his way out of it somehow
2 Likes #8
catbeans
Well if she gave it to the shop they would of just pocketed it. No sympathy, but no condemnation of her either.
I would hand a wallet or whatever in but cash, is different, whoever you give it to will keep it and if you give it directly to the police no one is walking into a police station asking about a fiver they lost.

I'm sort of leaning towards this. There is no way on gods green earth that CPS should have gone ahead with this and she should not have pleaded guilty.

It's all about context, value and what's reasonable. Me personally I would have asked the shop keeper if they knew who may of dropped it and left it with them but in all honesty it's pathetic that an easy target was prosecuted and convicted for £20 !
3 Likes #9
haritori
YouDontWantToKnow
haritori
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.
My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.
anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..
"so what did you spend the money on"?
I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(
You should have told the police & got him nicked for theft ;)
I was terrified of him at that age, so i never questioned it with him just accepted it..
he was the type to buy me a megadrive adn a load of games and show everyone what a great christmas i had, and by march he sold the lot.. so even if he give me the £200 he would of had it back a few months later, at least this way it cut out the middleman and heartbreak.
But I replied to that policeman, I said "oh my dad didnt tell give it me", and I remember the copper saying not to worry and patting me head, he was a nice guy.. my stepdad dealt with the police everyday as it was pretty dodgy pub, so im sure it was brought up, so I do hope it humiliated him a little, but he would of charmed/BS his way out of it somehow
I feel for you Haritori
Been there done that
As in had a b....of a mother who got me a secondhand bike for xmas and sold it 3 days later
And later on her new hubby (6'4" built like a brick s.........bouncer at nightclub) decided it was OK to beat up a 14yr old skinny runt
1 Like #10
stiffnuts
catbeans
Well if she gave it to the shop they would of just pocketed it. No sympathy, but no condemnation of her either.
I would hand a wallet or whatever in but cash, is different, whoever you give it to will keep it and if you give it directly to the police no one is walking into a police station asking about a fiver they lost.
I'm sort of leaning towards this. There is no way on gods green earth that CPS should have gone ahead with this and she should not have pleaded guilty.
It's all about context, value and what's reasonable. Me personally I would have asked the shop keeper if they knew who may of dropped it and left it with them but in all honesty it's pathetic that an easy target was prosecuted and convicted for £20 !

Its not pathetic it sent a message and in all likelihood will make many other people think twice.
1 Like #11
stiffnuts
catbeans
Well if she gave it to the shop they would of just pocketed it. No sympathy, but no condemnation of her either.
I would hand a wallet or whatever in but cash, is different, whoever you give it to will keep it and if you give it directly to the police no one is walking into a police station asking about a fiver they lost.
I'm sort of leaning towards this. There is no way on gods green earth that CPS should have gone ahead with this and she should not have pleaded guilty.

It's all about context, value and what's reasonable. Me personally I would have asked the shop keeper if they knew who may of dropped it and left it with them but in all honesty it's pathetic that an easy target was prosecuted and convicted for £20 !
I agree with the "easy target" bit but she had every opportunity to fess up at the first interview
Me, myself, I would of taken it to the police station
I'm not blaming her for pocketing it - that was her decision (even though in my eyes it was wrong)
It's the fact it was only £20 and she denied it at the first interview. It was £20 - all she had to do was acknowledge the fact and offer to pay it back.
Then anything more than a caution could of received and deserved "sympathy"
6 Likes #12
I bet the residents of Stoke-on-Trent feel a lot safer now justice has been served.

A criminal record for pocketing a lost £20 note, its ridiculous but as stated above she was an easy target for the CPS who seem to shy away from going after real criminals.

This case is up there with those who are taken to court for over filling their wheelie bins etc
1 Like #13
I read this story before but I missed the part where she got questioned and denied it. That makes her morally guilty.

The punishment seems harsh but you have to consider all the time wasted by the shop owner, the police and the court. She could have just admitted it and handed it back.
2 Likes #14
My son dropped his wallet in Milton Keynes shopping centre years ago, he was about 5 or 6 and coins went everywhere. We picked up most, passers by picked up a few but one man walking with his kid picked up some, knowing full well who's it was, gave it to his kid and walked off. Raised my voice to let the kid know his dad had stolen it but they continued regardless.
Some people have no shame and she got what she deserved.
1 Like #15
fps_d0minat0r
I read this story before but I missed the part where she got questioned and denied it. That makes her morally guilty.
The punishment seems harsh but you have to consider all the time wasted by the shop owner, the police and the court. She could have just admitted it and handed it back.
Ms Bailey visited the One Stop in Blurton and picked up the cash after it was dropped by a fellow customer.
Three months later she was asked to attend a police station as a witness, which she did voluntarily.
She said she had no memory of finding the money and was initially told by police that nothing would happen.

except I think the last few words are biased news used to gain more sympathy
and was initially told by police that nothing would happen

the original article (from the BBC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-39119990


added

more here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/woman-nicole-bailey-kept-20-note-one-stop-burton-stoke-on-trent-criminal-record-staff-poketed-a7603576.html

Edited By: philphil61 on Mar 01, 2017 22:59
1 Like #16
philphil61
haritori
YouDontWantToKnow
haritori
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.
My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.
anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..
"so what did you spend the money on"?
I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(
You should have told the police & got him nicked for theft ;)
I was terrified of him at that age, so i never questioned it with him just accepted it..
he was the type to buy me a megadrive adn a load of games and show everyone what a great christmas i had, and by march he sold the lot.. so even if he give me the £200 he would of had it back a few months later, at least this way it cut out the middleman and heartbreak.
But I replied to that policeman, I said "oh my dad didnt tell give it me", and I remember the copper saying not to worry and patting me head, he was a nice guy.. my stepdad dealt with the police everyday as it was pretty dodgy pub, so im sure it was brought up, so I do hope it humiliated him a little, but he would of charmed/BS his way out of it somehow
I feel for you Haritori
Been there done that
As in had a b....of a mother who got me a secondhand bike for xmas and sold it 3 days later
And later on her new hubby (6'4" built like a brick s.........bouncer at nightclub) decided it was OK to beat up a 14yr old skinny runt

Liking your comment doesn't feel right, but you knwo what i mean ;)
#17
take it the old adage of "finders keepers-losers weepers" doesn't apply anymore then (_;)
1 Like #18
haritori
philphil61
haritori
YouDontWantToKnow
haritori
When i was about 12 I found a handbag at a bus stop, when i looked inside there were lots of items perfume, keys, etc, but i remember there as nothing to identify the person but there was also a purse and inside was at least £200 in cash notes and £10-£15 in change, I handed it in at whitefield police station, and I can remember the police officer was in almost shock i handed it in.. he also checked and was no ID or cards etc.. but told me if it wasnt claim i would be entitled to keep it. after about 3 months.
My step dad said I was stupid for handing it in, when he came to police station to pick me up.
anyway about 6 months go by and I forgot all about it, when I came across the officer who took it off me at the desk, and he said..
"so what did you spend the money on"?
I found out later my step dad had a phone call to collect it as no one claimed it, and he kept it for himself and never told me :(
You should have told the police & got him nicked for theft ;)
I was terrified of him at that age, so i never questioned it with him just accepted it..
he was the type to buy me a megadrive adn a load of games and show everyone what a great christmas i had, and by march he sold the lot.. so even if he give me the £200 he would of had it back a few months later, at least this way it cut out the middleman and heartbreak.
But I replied to that policeman, I said "oh my dad didnt tell give it me", and I remember the copper saying not to worry and patting me head, he was a nice guy.. my stepdad dealt with the police everyday as it was pretty dodgy pub, so im sure it was brought up, so I do hope it humiliated him a little, but he would of charmed/BS his way out of it somehow
I feel for you Haritori
Been there done that
As in had a b....of a mother who got me a secondhand bike for xmas and sold it 3 days later
And later on her new hubby (6'4" built like a brick s.........bouncer at nightclub) decided it was OK to beat up a 14yr old skinny runt
Liking your comment doesn't feel right, but you knwo what i mean ;)
It's totally acceptable and understood Haritori
and appreciated
Not many will understand abuse, even less actually suffer it

It took a "specialist" years ago to tell me I had been abused physically and emotionally as a child and not all abuse comes to light immediately.

And there's not that many real men who will admit and openly talk about it

Respect give ;)
#19
hmv4u
take it the old adage of "finders keepers-losers weepers" doesn't apply anymore then (_;)
I take it honesty means nothing these days?

Well yes it does to those you are honest to ;)

Like I said had she fessed up the first time then maybe it wouldn't of been so harsh with justice. It was only £20

The other week, riding past an ASDA (not local) I decided to do some shopping and through my own careless act I lost an item costing about £20. I either left it at the checkout or in the trolley. I didn't go back to the store. I accepted I had probably lost it but I emailed ASDA customer services on the off chance stating where I might have left it and on the off chance someone honest might have handed it in

No such luck - my own fault. I don't seek redress or sympathy and I'm sure there's cctv in the area - it's called life.

She had her chance to be honest as was proven a liar and punished for it

I hope it sends a clear message to others


Edited By: philphil61 on Mar 01, 2017 23:17
#20
It's her own fault she found it in a shop and people saying the shop workers would of kept it don't wash with me they have cctv in every shop these days looking at the till area no worker is risking it for 20 quid. This woman could of asked the shop staff if anyone had said they lost £20 she could of given it to shop staff or simply said I'll hand it in to police to shop staff. Also she lied about finding it in the first place. There is a massive difference morally finding £20 in a confined space like a shop or back of taxi/bus to £20 blowing down the road with nobody in site and could of been lost days ago.
2 Likes #21
Some people really need £20 i guess. Ok fair enough its small change and she pocketed it, but denying it to the police is just stupid. Why didn't the police charge her for perverting the course of justice. This whole ordeal cost the tax payer hundreds, so take her down for everything she has.

Im amazed someone phoned the police to say they lost £20 and even more amazed the police actually looked into this. If you get burgled here you'll be lucky to see a police officer within 1 week.
1 Like #22
davidian84
stiffnuts
catbeans
Well if she gave it to the shop they would of just pocketed it. No sympathy, but no condemnation of her either.
I would hand a wallet or whatever in but cash, is different, whoever you give it to will keep it and if you give it directly to the police no one is walking into a police station asking about a fiver they lost.
I'm sort of leaning towards this. There is no way on gods green earth that CPS should have gone ahead with this and she should not have pleaded guilty.
It's all about context, value and what's reasonable. Me personally I would have asked the shop keeper if they knew who may of dropped it and left it with them but in all honesty it's pathetic that an easy target was prosecuted and convicted for £20 !
Its not pathetic it sent a message and in all likelihood will make many other people think twice.

I've worked in the legal system for many years it is pathetic and human behaviour is such that it will make no one think and has taught no one other then how to waste thousands of pounds of tax payers money prosecuting someone for £20. I'm not even convinced that she has committed theft. The only thing that caused her a problem is denying on the first occasion which shows some mens rea. All she had to say was that she picked it up thought about handing it in but she held an honest belief that she didn't think that it was possible to identify the genuine owner.
#23
So did the owner of the £20 get it back or what then? If they had her on camera, surely they had the person who dropped it too.
1 Like #24
just last Saturday my 17 year old daughter went into leicester town to buy her sister (my younger daughter) a pair of £80 nike trainers for her birthday.
she brought them and then went to McDonald's.
got home an hour later and called me crying on the phone and told me she had left them in mcdonalds somewere.
i called mcdonalds and spoke to the manager who asked me all about the bag, trainers size etc.
he then said that someone handed them in .
she was so relieved.
i can honestly say, i would have also handed them in too.
and the law that "finding is stealing" nowadays causes lots of people to be more honest.
i would like to think they were handed in due to their kind nature ?
but also their are so many cameras in mcdonalds that it could just be that they knew the law and knew they would be on camera when they took em.
i will never know
#25
J4GG4
Some people really need £20 i guess. Ok fair enough its small change and she pocketed it, but denying it to the police is just stupid. Why didn't the police charge her for perverting the course of justice. This whole ordeal cost the tax payer hundreds, so take her down for everything she has.

Im amazed someone phoned the police to say they lost £20 and even more amazed the police actually looked into this. If you get burgled here you'll be lucky to see a police officer within 1 week.

There is an amazingly high threshold for perverting.

Ever thought the person was just an idiot who panicked and denied something when she thought she "may" have done something wrong when the police were involved.

Many people have been there, panicked and told a lie. The harm done to a person or the economy in this instance is negligible.
#26
£33,000,000,000 for PPI misselling and not even one person has been to court?!
#27
lollypoplee
just last Saturday my 17 year old daughter went into leicester town to buy her sister (my younger daughter) a pair of £80 nike trainers for her birthday.
she brought them and then went to McDonald's.
got home an hour later and called me crying on the phone and told me she had left them in mcdonalds somewere.
i called mcdonalds and spoke to the manager who asked me all about the bag, trainers size etc.
he then said that someone handed them in .
she was so relieved.
i can honestly say, i would have also handed them in too.
and the law that "finding is stealing" nowadays causes lots of people to be more honest.
i would like to think they were handed in due to their kind nature ?
but also their are so many cameras in mcdonalds that it could just be that they knew the law and knew they would be on camera when they took em.
i will never know

Vast majority of people I'm sure would have handed it in (including me !!). In these circumstances it is possible to trace the owner through size, colour, brand, and any bag or branding, so to not hand them in would be theft.

This in my opinion is not the same as the £20 case.
3 Likes #28
philphil61
hmv4u
take it the old adage of "finders keepers-losers weepers" doesn't apply anymore then (_;)
I take it honesty means nothing these days?
Well yes it does to those you are honest to ;)
Like I said had she fessed up the first time then maybe it wouldn't of been so harsh with justice. It was only £20
The other week, riding past an ASDA (not local) I decided to do some shopping and through my own careless act I lost an item costing about £20. I either left it at the checkout or in the trolley. I didn't go back to the store. I accepted I had probably lost it but I emailed ASDA customer services on the off chance stating where I might have left it and on the off chance someone honest might have handed it in
No such luck - my own fault. I don't seek redress or sympathy and I'm sure there's cctv in the area - it's called life.
She had her chance to be honest as was proven a liar and punished for it
I hope it sends a clear message to others

But it's not even sending a clear message to you! Your item has been taken and you are not bothering to find the person responsible? X)

For a theft to have taken place you must "dishonestly appropriate". So I'm guessing the CCTV clearly shows her seeing the person drop it before picking it up and walking off with it.

It's all a fine line.
I sit in the park and eat some crisps. I place the the half bag of crisps on the bench and walk away. The park attendant picks them up and puts them in the bin. As he has "dishonestly appropriated" them and has "permanently deprive" me of my crisps he has committed theft by the 1968 definition. But in reality it's me who gets charged with littering!

As you said that life! :)
1 Like #29
moneysavingkitten
So did the owner of the £20 get it back or what then? If they had her on camera, surely they had the person who dropped it too.

They must have done as otherwise no theft would have taken place.
#30
stiffnuts
J4GG4
Some people really need £20 i guess. Ok fair enough its small change and she pocketed it, but denying it to the police is just stupid. Why didn't the police charge her for perverting the course of justice. This whole ordeal cost the tax payer hundreds, so take her down for everything she has.

Im amazed someone phoned the police to say they lost £20 and even more amazed the police actually looked into this. If you get burgled here you'll be lucky to see a police officer within 1 week.

There is an amazingly high threshold for perverting.

Ever thought the person was just an idiot who panicked and denied something when she thought she "may" have done something wrong when the police were involved.

Many people have been there, panicked and told a lie. The harm done to a person or the economy in this instance is negligible.


Ok I agree that it was a waste of tax payers money I know very well how the court system works. What I don't agree with is she took it from an easily identifiable situation ln a shop with cctv and didn't even ask staff if anyone had reported it missing she had ample opportunity to identify the owner. If she found it blowing down the rd or in a puddle I'd be inclined to agree with you that she had an honest belief you could not identify the owner. But in this situation she had a high chance she could of hence the theft charge

Edited By: larrylightweight on Mar 01, 2017 23:52: X
1 Like #31
its very simple. years ago every single item a thief was caught with, he simply said...... i found it ?
so the new law "theft by finding" was introduced to put a stop to it.
10 Likes #32
A lawyer was on LBC radio this morning explaining the various aspect as to why it was stealing. However he said that it was very harsh why that the police did not deal with it as a caution. Lastly, he said that it was not a good use of police time and costs to take a first-time offender to court for £20 theft when the court and the police are both under-resourced and are suffering tremendous cost cutting especially when there are more pressing cases to deal with.
.
The shop had to prepare for video evidence, witness statements.
The police had to prepare for interview, statement, prosecution files...
The court administration had to process this case and to administer the digital/paper work and offender's register...
Court Hearing and all subsequent data storage, IT infrastructure and record keeping.
...
all in all not far off £10k for £20!

Edited By: splender on Mar 01, 2017 23:51
#33
GAVINLEWISHUKD
moneysavingkitten
So did the owner of the £20 get it back or what then? If they had her on camera, surely they had the person who dropped it too.
They must have done as otherwise no theft would have taken place.

There was more, I didn't scroll down far enough. She paid £20 compensation and costs.
#34
GAVINLEWISHUKD
philphil61
hmv4u
take it the old adage of "finders keepers-losers weepers" doesn't apply anymore then (_;)
I take it honesty means nothing these days?
Well yes it does to those you are honest to ;)
Like I said had she fessed up the first time then maybe it wouldn't of been so harsh with justice. It was only £20
The other week, riding past an ASDA (not local) I decided to do some shopping and through my own careless act I lost an item costing about £20. I either left it at the checkout or in the trolley. I didn't go back to the store. I accepted I had probably lost it but I emailed ASDA customer services on the off chance stating where I might have left it and on the off chance someone honest might have handed it in
No such luck - my own fault. I don't seek redress or sympathy and I'm sure there's cctv in the area - it's called life.
She had her chance to be honest as was proven a liar and punished for it
I hope it sends a clear message to others

But it's not even sending a clear message to you! Your item has been taken and you are not bothering to find the person responsible? X)

For a theft to have taken place you must "dishonestly appropriate". So I'm guessing the CCTV clearly shows her seeing the person drop it before picking it up and walking off with it.

It's all a fine line.
I sit in the park and eat some crisps. I place the the half bag of crisps on the bench and walk away. The park attendant picks them up and puts them in the bin. As he has "dishonestly appropriated" them and has "permanently deprive" me of my crisps he has committed theft by the 1968 definition. But in reality it's me who gets charged with littering!

As you said that life! :)


This is a very valid point and is the reason why carpet fitters leave the off cuts they don't want to take them and be done for theft.
2 Likes #35
larrylightweight
stiffnuts
J4GG4
Some people really need £20 i guess. Ok fair enough its small change and she pocketed it, but denying it to the police is just stupid. Why didn't the police charge her for perverting the course of justice. This whole ordeal cost the tax payer hundreds, so take her down for everything she has.
Im amazed someone phoned the police to say they lost £20 and even more amazed the police actually looked into this. If you get burgled here you'll be lucky to see a police officer within 1 week.
There is an amazingly high threshold for perverting.
Ever thought the person was just an idiot who panicked and denied something when she thought she "may" have done something wrong when the police were involved.
Many people have been there, panicked and told a lie. The harm done to a person or the economy in this instance is negligible.
Ok I agree that it was a waste of tax payers money I know very well how the court system works. What I don't agree with is she took it from an easily identifiable situation ln a shop with cctv and didn't even ask staff if anyone had reported it missing she had ample opportunity to identify the owner. If she found it blowing down the rd or in a puddle I'd be inclined to agree with you that she had an honest belief you could identify the owner. But in this situation she had a high chance she could of hence the theft charge

Okay happy to meet you in the middle and you make a lot of good points but without knowing the full facts and mitigation it's hard to know what was going through her head. It's unwise and she made a mistake. But really a criminal record and thousands of pounds in a prosecution, I assume the victim wanted to pursue it all the way ?

A caution would have sufficed especially if no previous.

It's a clear up rate statistic and an easy win. It's pretty shabby in my opinion.
#36
lollypoplee
its very simple. years ago every single item a thief was caught with, he simply said...... i found it ?
so the new law "theft by finding" was introduced to put a stop to it.


My mate got done for "theft by finding" he took one of those men at work rd signs when he was drunk the police asked him where he got it from. He said I found it we still joke about this in the pub every now and again when we meet up.
1 Like #37
larrylightweight
lollypoplee
its very simple. years ago every single item a thief was caught with, he simply said...... i found it ?
so the new law "theft by finding" was introduced to put a stop to it.
My mate got done for "theft by finding" he took one of those men at work rd signs when he was drunk the police asked him where he got it from. He said I found it we still joke about this in the pub every now and again when we meet up.

Reminds me of a time when I was a little younger and had just started driving. Went out with a few mates in the car, we 'sourced' about 10 traffic cones and used them to close off a local car park.

Drove by it every day, and for a whole week and the cones remained in place :D
2 Likes #38
stiffnuts
davidian84
stiffnuts
catbeans
Well if she gave it to the shop they would of just pocketed it. No sympathy, but no condemnation of her either.
I would hand a wallet or whatever in but cash, is different, whoever you give it to will keep it and if you give it directly to the police no one is walking into a police station asking about a fiver they lost.
I'm sort of leaning towards this. There is no way on gods green earth that CPS should have gone ahead with this and she should not have pleaded guilty.
It's all about context, value and what's reasonable. Me personally I would have asked the shop keeper if they knew who may of dropped it and left it with them but in all honesty it's pathetic that an easy target was prosecuted and convicted for £20 !
Its not pathetic it sent a message and in all likelihood will make many other people think twice.
I've worked in the legal system for many years it is pathetic and human behaviour is such that it will make no one think and has taught no one other then how to waste thousands of pounds of tax payers money prosecuting someone for £20. I'm not even convinced that she has committed theft. The only thing that caused her a problem is denying on the first occasion which shows some mens rea. All she had to say was that she picked it up thought about handing it in but she held an honest belief that she didn't think that it was possible to identify the genuine owner.
I'd like to know if they interviewed her under caution. Pathetic waste of police time.
#39
that's so unfair its finders keepers, if shop staff found it they would have kept it, they aught to rewind that cctv a bit further to see if their staff have pocketed anything!,

I have been at more than one job in the past where staff have found money on the floor and pocketed it as a routine! one was a nightclub, A car auctions and the other a well known supermarket beginning with T (we were told at that T we were to hand in any money found, but no one took any notice really).


Edited By: Moonwolf1976 on Mar 02, 2017 01:24
#40
stiffnuts
J4GG4
Some people really need £20 i guess. Ok fair enough its small change and she pocketed it, but denying it to the police is just stupid. Why didn't the police charge her for perverting the course of justice. This whole ordeal cost the tax payer hundreds, so take her down for everything she has.
Im amazed someone phoned the police to say they lost £20 and even more amazed the police actually looked into this. If you get burgled here you'll be lucky to see a police officer within 1 week.
There is an amazingly high threshold for perverting.
Ever thought the person was just an idiot who panicked and denied something when she thought she "may" have done something wrong when the police were involved.
Many people have been there, panicked and told a lie. The harm done to a person or the economy in this instance is negligible.

You're missing the point.

The investigation had already taken place, costing us tax payers hundreds maybe thousands?. So im saying while they're trying to take her down, take her down for everything. And anyway, panicking or not, you cant let someone off for that. Otherwise everyone would say they panicked and beg for a little slap on the wrist while its cost tax payers wonger.

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