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Is your employer allowed to take money off you if someone has taken a fake £20.00

£0.00 @
My daughter works for a very large holiday firm. Last night she was asked for 3.00 as well as others because someone had taken a fake twenty. Are they allowed to do this?
bluebindy123 Avatar
suspended5y, 9m agoPosted 5 years, 9 months ago
My daughter works for a very large holiday firm. Last night she was asked for 3.00 as well as others because someone had taken a fake twenty. Are they allowed to do this?
bluebindy123 Avatar
suspended5y, 9m agoPosted 5 years, 9 months ago
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#1
I guess they are allowed to ask.
What have they said they will do if everyone objects though?
#2
Do they have note scanners? Have they been trained in how to detect fake notes? If not it's not her (or anyone else that works there's fault).

And I'd have thought that unless they've put in the employment contract she could 'decline' the request. . .
suspended#3
She has given the money, as its her first job she was unsure of the rules. She doesn't usually use the till and only used it twice last night.

I worked for the same firm years ago, but fakes were more unusual then.
1 Like #4
Did she receive a contract and employee policy handbook? IF so, is there anything in there to cover this situation? If none of this, i'd tell them to take a flying leap.
[mod] 6 Likes #5
Sounds like the manager is running a great scam there. X)
1 Like #6
She should of given the employer another fake £20, its the last thing they would be expecting
#7
This sounds so dodgy by the company, or specifically the manager. You can not be responsible for others mistakes. I would be very annoyed if this happened to me or mine and I would ask the manager if they handed it over to the police. If they have not, then that would at the very least give them a scare back.
#8
AberdeenDad
This sounds so dodgy by the company, or specifically the manager. You can not be responsible for others mistakes. I would be very annoyed if this happened to me or mine and I would ask the manager if they handed it over to the police. If they have not, then that would at the very least give them a scare back.



Manager probably put in themself to get legit moneyz
#9
In retail employment, an employer may, if the contract or a written agreement authorises it, make deductions for cash shortages or missing stock due to, for example, dishonesty by a worker or theft by a customer. If an employer makes a deduction from an employee's pay for a cash or stock shortage, the employer must give details in writing to the employee on pay day. Any deduction for missing cash or stock must be made within twelve months of the employer discovering the shortage. This rule applies to the first deduction if the total to be deducted is spread over a number of pay days.
The size of the deduction that an employer can make depends upon the amount of gross wages that the worker is due to receive on her/his pay day. An employer can only deduct up to 10% of the wages due on that particular pay day for cash shortages or missing stock. This deduction is in addition to any deduction under the rules for all workers. If the amount to be deducted is less than 10%, the employer can deduct the full amount. If the amount of the deduction is more than 10%, the employer can only deduct 10% on that pay day but the balance may be carried over to the next pay day, when the 10% limit will again apply.There is no limit to the amount of money that an employer can deduct in total from a worker. The only limit is how much s/he can deduct on each pay day. If the worker is leaving work, see below.
banned#10
diabeticguy
In retail employment, an employer may, if the contract or a written agreement authorises it, make deductions for cash shortages or missing stock due to, for example, dishonesty by a worker or theft by a customer. If an employer makes a deduction from an employee's pay for a cash or stock shortage, the employer must give details in writing to the employee on pay day. Any deduction for missing cash or stock must be made within twelve months of the employer discovering the shortage. This rule applies to the first deduction if the total to be deducted is spread over a number of pay days.
The size of the deduction that an employer can make depends upon the amount of gross wages that the worker is due to receive on her/his pay day. An employer can only deduct up to 10% of the wages due on that particular pay day for cash shortages or missing stock. This deduction is in addition to any deduction under the rules for all workers. If the amount to be deducted is less than 10%, the employer can deduct the full amount. If the amount of the deduction is more than 10%, the employer can only deduct 10% on that pay day but the balance may be carried over to the next pay day, when the 10% limit will again apply.There is no limit to the amount of money that an employer can deduct in total from a worker. The only limit is how much s/he can deduct on each pay day. If the worker is leaving work, see below.



There is no mention of fake currency and unless they have trained her in forensic science or given detection tools, the employer is acting unlawfully IMHO.

Who is to say the boss didn't just plant it?
#11
Lol not the "i've found a bent note in the till " scam. X)
#12
I used to have an employer who tried to get £50 from everyone who uses the till because apparently it was £300 down one night. I got my solicitor involved and long story short, no-one had to cough up.
#13
Company name please so we can shame them.
banned#14
Disgraceful behaviour from the employer. Probably a jobsworth manager/supervisor though if it's company policy then it's scandalous. Glad my retail days are well behind me.

Edited By: master_chief on May 21, 2011 18:44
suspended#15
Part of Butlins/Haven and Bourne Leisure. I want to find out the rules but my daughter needs this job. Really annoyed as the other week she had twenty stolen out of her purse of course no proof who did it.
banned#16
To add, I've worked in 4-5 different retail places and have had my own individual till down in every place and have never had to pay up.
#17
I work for a company that does this...I don't like asking my staff for it but the way they see it is it is either that or they get a disciplinary and if they build up they get sacked.
banned 1 Like #18
Rayhul
I work for a company that does this...I don't like asking my staff for it but the way they see it is it is either that or they get a disciplinary and if they build up they get sacked.


Places I worked for all had disciplinary procedures, 3 strikes sort of thing. It's just greed motivating these companies, nothing do with avoiding disciplinary.

Wonder if the tills are up the staff get to share it?
#19
master_chief


Places I worked for all had disciplinary procedures, 3 strikes sort of thing. It's just greed motivating these companies, nothing do with avoiding disciplinary.

Wonder if the tills are up the staff get to share it?


If the tills are up I still have to give out disciplinaries to the staff but I never bank the money I donate it to charity. I would be interested to know the legal position of this...I'm a law student, I should stop being lazy and do some research. X)
#20
sounds like a load of rubbish, never heard of anything like that before

tell her to tell them to f off
#21
The employer is not, no matter what any contract says lol It's tantamount to theft and compnaies are insured against fraudulent notes...................unless this is a small retail shop

I'd get ACAS involved if I was her
banned#22
Rayhul
master_chief


Places I worked for all had disciplinary procedures, 3 strikes sort of thing. It's just greed motivating these companies, nothing do with avoiding disciplinary.

Wonder if the tills are up the staff get to share it?


If the tills are up I still have to give out disciplinaries to the staff but I never bank the money I donate it to charity. I would be interested to know the legal position of this...I'm a law student, I should stop being lazy and do some research. X)


So they have to pay up to avoid a disciplinary if they're down but get one regardless if they're up?
#23
Absolutely not allowed to do it, if they insisted I would have asked them to take it out of the main pay so you have proof of it then. Ridiculous
#24
master_chief

So they have to pay up to avoid a disciplinary if they're down but get one regardless if they're up?


Anything above a pound, though managers have certain discretions, and they should get one if they are up because they are short changing customers.
#25
bluebindy123, Your daughter should not have paid if the till was used by someone else.. they cannot prove she took the note and if they let everyone use the till then it is the managers responsibility and not your daughters...though £3.00 is quite a small amount, tell her next time not to pay unless it was her till and she signed for it. In terms of fake notes, the company must provide the necessary tools to stop the notes being taken in the first place, training is one and also machines and pens. I would let this incident slide however if this does occur again then you should speak to the company.
suspended#26
Rayhul
bluebindy123, Your daughter should not have paid if the till was used by someone else.. they cannot prove she took the note and if they let everyone use the till then it is the managers responsibility and not your daughters...though £3.00 is quite a small amount, tell her next time not to pay unless it was her till and she signed for it. In terms of fake notes, the company must provide the necessary tools to stop the notes being taken in the first place, training is one and also machines and pens. I would let this incident slide however if this does occur again then you should speak to the company.


It was a fake £20.00 note that was taken and I presume that there was around seven people working so they were all asked to make up the deficit. I am not happy with this as it could easily be misused by managers etc.
banned 1 Like #27
bluebindy123
Rayhul
bluebindy123, Your daughter should not have paid if the till was used by someone else.. they cannot prove she took the note and if they let everyone use the till then it is the managers responsibility and not your daughters...though £3.00 is quite a small amount, tell her next time not to pay unless it was her till and she signed for it. In terms of fake notes, the company must provide the necessary tools to stop the notes being taken in the first place, training is one and also machines and pens. I would let this incident slide however if this does occur again then you should speak to the company.

It was a fake £20.00 note that was taken and I presume that there was around seven people working so they were all asked to make up the deficit. I am not happy with this as it could easily be misused by managers etc.

I trust she got a receipt for this and its not just been handed over without proof? It sounds like this might come in handy if it happens again.... or use it when she's had enough and files for unfair dismissal for all the worry its caused her that she might lose all her money on a really bad day!
#28
bluebindy123

It was a fake £20.00 note that was taken and I presume that there was around seven people working so they were all asked to make up the deficit. I am not happy with this as it could easily be misused by managers etc.


I can understand your daughter paying up, it is her first job, but the other 6 what is wrong with them? maybe I should go over and ask them for some money as they seem so willing to hand it over.

Edited By: Rayhul on May 21, 2011 21:31: .
#29
this stinks. What if there were 25 fake £20 notes in the till? Or 200. Where does it end? Anyone working there could be palming them off eg getting £17 for a fake £20.

I used to make up minor shortfalls when I worked for the Post Office years ago, they would let 49p or less pass without a warning. 50p and over ... trouble. But it was my own lockable till.
#30
I'm a business management student/HR and we havent been taught to do this ;) also the manager is up £1. I wouldnt just hand over my money, ACAS would probably be able to help.
#31
the company have been a victim of crime so they penalise their employees. What a fantastic company they must be. Contact their head office and see what they have to say. My guess is the manager knew they would be in the mire for not enuring notes were cheked so has passed this on to the staff. It's the modern pass the buck culture we live in.
#32
keep a record of all the money she is paying to them.
Then when she is about to leave, ask for all of it back or else lawsuit. (unless they have it written in contract)
#33
The answer is No. She needs to demand it back. What company is it?
#34
bluebindy123
Part of Butlins/Haven and Bourne Leisure. I want to find out the rules but my daughter needs this job. Really annoyed as the other week she had twenty stolen out of her purse of course no proof who did it.

Fake twenty found in till, twenty stolen from your daughters purse....interesting...:-)
1 Like #35
This is from the CAB site:

"
There are additional rules for retail workers. Retail workers work in jobs that
involve taking money for an employer in exchange for goods or services.
Retail workers include people who work, for example, in a shop, petrol station,
bank or building society, as a waiter, a bus conductor or a car park attendant.

If there is a cash shortage or missing stock due, for example, to theft by a
worker or customer, your employer is allowed to make a deduction from your
wages under certain circumstances. Your employer must make the deduction
within a year of discovering the shortage, and must explain the reasons for the
deduction to you in writing. The deduction cannot be more than 10% of your
gross pay (that is, your pay before tax has been deducted), on any single pay
day.


If there is a larger amount to be repaid, your employer can carry the
balance over until your next pay day, but can never deduct more than 10% on
each pay day. They can continue to do this until the full amount has been
repaid.
If you are leaving your job your employer can deduct the full amount owed
from your final wage. If you are in this situation you should talk to an
experienced adviser straight away (see Further help at the end of this fact
sheet)"

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/e_employer_witholds_your_pay.pdf


Edited By: Rayhul on May 25, 2011 15:00
banned#36
So all the back room lawyers here were wrong?
banned#37
dimebars
So all the back room lawyers here were wrong?

Depends on the exact circumstances. It doesn't seem in the case given that the rules were followed or were applicable as given by Rayhul above.
#38
Rayhul
This is from the CAB site:

"
There are additional rules for retail workers. Retail workers work in jobs that
involve taking money for an employer in exchange for goods or services.
Retail workers include people who work, for example, in a shop, petrol station,
bank or building society, as a waiter, a bus conductor or a car park attendant.

If there is a cash shortage or missing stock due, for example, to theft by a
worker or customer, your employer is allowed to make a deduction from your
wages under certain circumstances. Your employer must make the deduction
within a year of discovering the shortage, and must explain the reasons for the
deduction to you in writing. The deduction cannot be more than 10% of your
gross pay (that is, your pay before tax has been deducted), on any single pay
day.


If there is a larger amount to be repaid, your employer can carry the
balance over until your next pay day, but can never deduct more than 10% on
each pay day. They can continue to do this until the full amount has been
repaid.
If you are leaving your job your employer can deduct the full amount owed
from your final wage. If you are in this situation you should talk to an
experienced adviser straight away (see Further help at the end of this fact
sheet)"

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/e_employer_witholds_your_pay.pdf


As said before it doesn't stipulate fake currency, id agree with others however shouldn't need to be paid back by the employee's unless employer can 100% ascertain who is to blame which they clearly cannot as they are blaming everyone (bully boy tactics, manager trying to get away clean).

Also thing that has been slightly mentioned you mentioned

"She doesn't usually use the till and only used it twice last night."

Has she actually ever given the proper training for this (also as far as i know you have to have accepted HR training records for such things although that might be bigger companies) also as mentioned fake currency training and any "FAKE" training at all is an artform and does infact take alot of training to detect forgerys.

Also above as said where would this **** end

5 people working o dear someone gave us a dodgy cheque of £1000 all pay up £200!!!
etc etc blah blah etc etc :(

Report manager to head office to be honest and take further if needed, if things happen like this again before you get communication over the policy (which i would want off two individuals such as head office and CAB) down right refused.


PS: Find her another job these guys for all purposes are ************************************. oO
banned#39
dimebars
So all the back room lawyers here were wrong?


My answer is exactly the same as it was when that was first posted in post number 9:

There is no mention of fake currency and unless they have trained her in forensic science or given detection tools, the employer is acting unlawfully IMHO.

Who is to say the boss didn't just plant it?

Next
#40
guv


Who is to say the boss didn't just plant it?

Next


Is that where the saying "money grows on trees" comes from .............:p

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