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Argon 18 SRAM AXS Force 2x12 with Zipp 302's - £2849 @ Start Fitness
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Argon 18 SRAM AXS Force 2x12 with Zipp 302's - £2849 @ Start Fitness

116
Posted 11th JunEdited by:"Vanderlust"
This will get negged to hell for being an expensive bike, but throwing it out there for a savvy rider who's prepared to put in a little effort. Wall of text coming so settle in.

The money here is in the AXS groupset. Usually over £2k, but can be found around £1500 now. Zipp 302's over £1k too.

First up you call in and ask them to reduce the price. They're really good at the call centre to negotiate with. They'll also take a Cycle to Work voucher or maybe even Green Initiative which is better again. (Maxing this out, you can get them to reduce it to say 2700, then get 40% extra off on Green Initiative if you're higher rate payer = £1600 delivered! Think about it!)

Next you ask them not to build the bike for you, just to box it all up, then you flog the frameset off when it arrives (try to get 500 quid for it on eBay), and put that towards a posh frameset, like S Works Tarmac rim, R5 rim, or whatever you fancy second hand on eBay, then stick the groupset, wheelset, saddle, bars etc on there.

Now you got yourself a 2x12 wireless £9k super bike for around 15 to 30% off the RRP (depending on how well you negotiated or if you went nuts with a cycle scheme discount etc). Also note this gruppo is dead easy to set up compared to a fully wired one.

I've done stuff like this before, and would have jumped on this too but my heart is set on a disc build now, so passing it on. I'm refreshing their site regularly just in case a disc build pops up. If you see something like this in disc, please message me and share.

Or yes, you could just ride the Argon 18, but, well, it's not sexy enough
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Superman_turbo_pro_300011/06/2020 19:49

I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. …I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. Bradley Wiggins could kick my ass on a halfords mountain bike even if I had this £2800 one. I don't think 99% of people will see any improvement by buying a bike costing more than about £700.... For £700 you can get Shimano sora/105 2x9 groupset. Strong but maybe slightly heavier aluminium 700c wheels. A good aluminium frame with dual pivot rim calipers.A pair of continental 28x700c tyres.99% of riders can achieve their best with a simple set up like that.




Penalty between my posh bike and gravel bike on the same Conti 4000sII tyres is around 2mph over a 2 hour ride at sweet spot.

Huge difference there. A lot of guys will train for years and never get 2mph faster on their favourite loop, given the same conditions.

Clearly it's obvious a professional athlete on a crap bike will be faster than a poor rider on a good one. Though it's odd that would pass for wisdom. No-one buys a good bike to beat a professional rider. They buy it because it's more enjoyable to ride, and more expensive bikes definitely feel so much better to ride than a £700 Halfords effort.

They ARE also faster too. It's physics. You can build bikes with over 100 watt differences between them. Unless you don't believe in aerodynamics, gravity or efficient gear ratios. Nevermind the well studied psychological aspect of performance.

To put that into context, there will be naysayers with sub 200 watt FTPs. That would mean the difference between two extreme bike builds would equate to 50% of your power at threshold!

But as always, grouchy, cheap bike guy knows best. He's faster than all of us on his Halfords bike

And even if you were. Who cares, if you can afford nice things, then go for it. We're not communists, though some people act like it when they can't have what they can't afford or don't see value in
Edited by: "Vanderlust" 11th Jun
I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. Bradley Wiggins could kick my ass on a halfords mountain bike even if I had this £2800 one.

I don't think 99% of people will see any improvement by buying a bike costing more than about £700....

For £700 you can get

Shimano sora/105 2x9 groupset.

Strong but maybe slightly heavier aluminium 700c wheels.

A good aluminium frame with dual pivot rim calipers.

A pair of continental 28x700c tyres.

99% of riders can achieve their best with a simple set up like that.
Edited by: "Superman_turbo_pro_3000" 11th Jun
ehory11/06/2020 15:04

Green initiative? What's that? How have I not heard of this before? Off to …Green initiative? What's that? How have I not heard of this before? Off to Google I go.....


Pretty new, I just heard about it a month ago. It's like CycleScheme but without the crappy end payments and weird term arrangements. Discount is also higher too. You can get the full discount over any term, like 6 months or 24 months. On CycleScheme you only get a decent benefit the longer you drag it out, which is risky if you lose your job or are changing soon. Employer doesn't need to be signed up, just get the voucher and ask HR to process it. Haven't tried it myself yet, but am keen to try.

greencommuteinitiative.uk
Edited by: "Vanderlust" 11th Jun
Lot of bike for the money
N+1 :/
116 Comments
Looks good!

What's the sizing like on these? Only S or L available.
Edited by: "CycleCommute.CC" 11th Jun
Lot of bike for the money
N+1 :/
CycleCommute.CC11/06/2020 14:51

Looks good! What's the sizing like on these? Only S or L available.



Are you looking at the red or silver model? Silver one has just two sizes, but the red one has every size except M. M is 'probably' about 5ft 7 to 5ft 10, so everyone else is alright. Or just trade out the frameset so size won't matter if it doesn't fit
Green initiative? What's that? How have I not heard of this before? Off to Google I go.....
ehory11/06/2020 15:04

Green initiative? What's that? How have I not heard of this before? Off to …Green initiative? What's that? How have I not heard of this before? Off to Google I go.....


Pretty new, I just heard about it a month ago. It's like CycleScheme but without the crappy end payments and weird term arrangements. Discount is also higher too. You can get the full discount over any term, like 6 months or 24 months. On CycleScheme you only get a decent benefit the longer you drag it out, which is risky if you lose your job or are changing soon. Employer doesn't need to be signed up, just get the voucher and ask HR to process it. Haven't tried it myself yet, but am keen to try.

greencommuteinitiative.uk
Edited by: "Vanderlust" 11th Jun
They charge 15% fee for cycle2work, I enquired with them earlier
Edited by: "Dbrown1984" 11th Jun
Dbrown198411/06/2020 15:13

The charge 15% fee for cycle2work, I enquired with them earlier



Dirty! Just had a look back to see what I did with them last year. They reduced a £899 Cannondale Topstone Sora to £800 and put it on CycleScheme.

Would still be worth the 15% though on a heavily discounted bike, though really need to look at the tax savings. Check out Green Initiative instead, could be a lot better.

Might give them a call tomorrow and see what I can haggle out of them, could be good to compare. I know Sigma or maybe Tredz add 10% if you try to 0% finance a heavily discounted bike, tried that before too.
Edited by: "Vanderlust" 11th Jun
https://www.triuk.com/Triathlon-Bikes/Argon-18/Argon-18-Gallium-Pro-Disc-Ultegra-Di2-2018-Black—or—Grey-Matte
https://www.triuk.com/Triathlon-Bikes/Argon-18/Argon-18-Nitrogen-Ultegra-Di2-2018-Black—or—White

Just in case this helps anybody
Bought 2 for stocking fillers.
what cc is it, hard to tell from the description
I’m tempted by this to swap over to my canyon aeroad, or do I go for a new Aeroad disc on the green init
white9111/06/2020 17:23

I’m tempted by this to swap over to my canyon aeroad, or do I go for a new …I’m tempted by this to swap over to my canyon aeroad, or do I go for a new Aeroad disc on the green init



I'd hold out in your case! New 2021 Aeroads will be out at the end of the year. A guy said recently if you email Canyon asking about Aeroad stock they'll tell you no more are coming until the new version at end of year. Take it with pinch of salt, but the new model should have already been released.. somethings holding it up Really easy to process Green Initiative on Canyon.com too. Really cool.

Hmmm disturbance in the force I sense. The discount force is strong with this one. Even stronger is the Jedi mind on the new build with this one! Hmmm
Edited by: "MasterYodaJedi" 11th Jun
Just spotted this:

merlincycles.com/3t-…tml

That notorious X1 3t Strada down from £6299 to £2650. Another bargain if you got it on Cyclescheme or whatever.


58% off + 20 to 40%
=
£2120 to £1590


£1590!!!
Edited by: "Vanderlust" 11th Jun
I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. Bradley Wiggins could kick my ass on a halfords mountain bike even if I had this £2800 one.

I don't think 99% of people will see any improvement by buying a bike costing more than about £700....

For £700 you can get

Shimano sora/105 2x9 groupset.

Strong but maybe slightly heavier aluminium 700c wheels.

A good aluminium frame with dual pivot rim calipers.

A pair of continental 28x700c tyres.

99% of riders can achieve their best with a simple set up like that.
Edited by: "Superman_turbo_pro_3000" 11th Jun
Superman_turbo_pro_300011/06/2020 19:49

I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. …I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. Bradley Wiggins could kick my ass on a halfords mountain bike even if I had this £2800 one. I don't think 99% of people will see any improvement by buying a bike costing more than about £700.... For £700 you can get Shimano sora/105 2x9 groupset. Strong but maybe slightly heavier aluminium 700c wheels. A good aluminium frame with dual pivot rim calipers.A pair of continental 28x700c tyres.99% of riders can achieve their best with a simple set up like that.




Penalty between my posh bike and gravel bike on the same Conti 4000sII tyres is around 2mph over a 2 hour ride at sweet spot.

Huge difference there. A lot of guys will train for years and never get 2mph faster on their favourite loop, given the same conditions.

Clearly it's obvious a professional athlete on a crap bike will be faster than a poor rider on a good one. Though it's odd that would pass for wisdom. No-one buys a good bike to beat a professional rider. They buy it because it's more enjoyable to ride, and more expensive bikes definitely feel so much better to ride than a £700 Halfords effort.

They ARE also faster too. It's physics. You can build bikes with over 100 watt differences between them. Unless you don't believe in aerodynamics, gravity or efficient gear ratios. Nevermind the well studied psychological aspect of performance.

To put that into context, there will be naysayers with sub 200 watt FTPs. That would mean the difference between two extreme bike builds would equate to 50% of your power at threshold!

But as always, grouchy, cheap bike guy knows best. He's faster than all of us on his Halfords bike

And even if you were. Who cares, if you can afford nice things, then go for it. We're not communists, though some people act like it when they can't have what they can't afford or don't see value in
Edited by: "Vanderlust" 11th Jun
Vanderlust11/06/2020 21:07

Penalty between my posh bike and gravel bike on the same Conti 4000sII …Penalty between my posh bike and gravel bike on the same Conti 4000sII tyres is around 2mph over a 2 hour ride at sweet spot.Huge difference there. A lot of guys will train for years and never get 2mph faster on their favourite loop, given the same conditions.Clearly it's obvious a professional athlete on a crap bike will be faster than a poor rider on a good one. Though it's odd that would pass for wisdom. No-one buys a good bike to beat a professional rider. They buy it because it's more enjoyable to ride, and more expensive bikes definitely feel so much better to ride than a £700 Halfords effort.They ARE also faster too. It's physics. You can build bikes with over 100 watt differences between them. Unless you don't believe in aerodynamics, gravity or efficient gear ratios. Nevermind the well studied psychological aspect of performance.To put that into context, there will be naysayers with sub 200 watt FTPs. That would mean the difference between two extreme bike builds would equate to 50% of your power at threshold! But as always, grouchy, cheap bike guy knows best. He's faster than all of us on his Halfords bike And even if you were. Who cares, if you can afford nice things, then go for it. We're not communists, though some people act like it when they can't have want they can't afford


I have a Triban 540. Shimano 105 groupset
That's a fantastic deal. Must resist!
Best to get insurance policy quote separate from standard house insurance valuation for a bike such as this, last time I looked my policy only covered bikes up to the value of £300. Big locks at either end if leaving anywhere to stop disassembly or complete removal.
Superman_turbo_pro_300011/06/2020 19:49

I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. …I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. Bradley Wiggins could kick my ass on a halfords mountain bike even if I had this £2800 one. I don't think 99% of people will see any improvement by buying a bike costing more than about £700.... For £700 you can get Shimano sora/105 2x9 groupset. Strong but maybe slightly heavier aluminium 700c wheels. A good aluminium frame with dual pivot rim calipers.A pair of continental 28x700c tyres.99% of riders can achieve their best with a simple set up like that.


I think you can make some good speed gains just by swapping out the tyres and wheels on a cheap bike. I definitely noticed a huge difference when swapping the crappy stock Vittoria tyres for GP4000s, and even more swapping out the stock Shimano r500 wheels for some semi aero Vision Team 35 Comp SL wheels.
Both upgrades cost me under £200, that's on the bike price of £320 (Ventura CP50 Carbon)
That's a lot of bike for the money.
rugman11/06/2020 22:12

I think you can make some good speed gains just by swapping out the tyres …I think you can make some good speed gains just by swapping out the tyres and wheels on a cheap bike. I definitely noticed a huge difference when swapping the crappy stock Vittoria tyres for GP4000s, and even more swapping out the stock Shimano r500 wheels for some semi aero Vision Team 35 Comp SL wheels. Both upgrades cost me under £200, that's on the bike price of £320 (Ventura CP50 Carbon)


Yea. I fitted a continental gp4000 28x700c rear, and the bike came with a continental gatorskin 25x700c on the front.

I think about 60-70% of your weight goes through the rear wheel, hence why I fitted a 28 rear and left the 25 front.

Since fitting those I pump both to 90psi and the bike will keep pace with way more expensive bikes, even when you're freewheeling.

Servicing the hubs with fresh ball bearings and new grease could have helped too.
Superman_turbo_pro_300011/06/2020 19:49

I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. …I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. Bradley Wiggins could kick my ass on a halfords mountain bike even if I had this £2800 one. I don't think 99% of people will see any improvement by buying a bike costing more than about £700.... For £700 you can get Shimano sora/105 2x9 groupset. Strong but maybe slightly heavier aluminium 700c wheels. A good aluminium frame with dual pivot rim calipers.A pair of continental 28x700c tyres.99% of riders can achieve their best with a simple set up like that.



You're not wrong.

But then if you have the disposable income and dream of having a super high end road bike...
Boopop11/06/2020 22:22

You're not wrong.But then if you have the disposable income and dream of …You're not wrong.But then if you have the disposable income and dream of having a super high end road bike...


Yea, sadly I neglected my pension during my 20's so I'm playing catch up in that department....

Honestly they should have a "Household Economics" gcse at school so that even children who leave at 16 know about Pensions, ISAs, Mortgages, Child Maintenance, Divorce Claims, Renting and Buying Property... Etc etc
Mind blowing value... I'm nearly clicking the buy button, the only thing stopping me is that I'm very much set on disc brakes nowadays, and I've already got the previous eTap Red (disc)... If there was a disc version for a couple of hundred more, I'd find it very hard to resist - even just to sell the frameset and keep the groupset.
Darn you, HUKD!
sergiup11/06/2020 22:43

Mind blowing value... I'm nearly clicking the buy button, the only thing …Mind blowing value... I'm nearly clicking the buy button, the only thing stopping me is that I'm very much set on disc brakes nowadays, and I've already got the previous eTap Red (disc)... If there was a disc version for a couple of hundred more, I'd find it very hard to resist - even just to sell the frameset and keep the groupset.Darn you, HUKD!


Resisting, very hard 😬
It's been in the basket, the silver one, but I'm still not buying. Not yet anyway....... I don't need disc brakes.
Vanderlust11/06/2020 21:07

Penalty between my posh bike and gravel bike on the same Conti 4000sII …Penalty between my posh bike and gravel bike on the same Conti 4000sII tyres is around 2mph over a 2 hour ride at sweet spot.Huge difference there. A lot of guys will train for years and never get 2mph faster on their favourite loop, given the same conditions.Clearly it's obvious a professional athlete on a crap bike will be faster than a poor rider on a good one. Though it's odd that would pass for wisdom. No-one buys a good bike to beat a professional rider. They buy it because it's more enjoyable to ride, and more expensive bikes definitely feel so much better to ride than a £700 Halfords effort.They ARE also faster too. It's physics. You can build bikes with over 100 watt differences between them. Unless you don't believe in aerodynamics, gravity or efficient gear ratios. Nevermind the well studied psychological aspect of performance.To put that into context, there will be naysayers with sub 200 watt FTPs. That would mean the difference between two extreme bike builds would equate to 50% of your power at threshold! But as always, grouchy, cheap bike guy knows best. He's faster than all of us on his Halfords bike And even if you were. Who cares, if you can afford nice things, then go for it. We're not communists, though some people act like it when they can't have what they can't afford or don't see value in


Can't disagree there. I used to poo-poo the idea of getting an expensive bike & was happy with £500 max for a decent hybrid for many years. Then I got the Cannondale CAADX 105 2016 through Cycle to Work and my God, I was -not- prepared for the difference at all. Being used to riding heavier bikes I had to slow myself down on familiar routes at first as I was going faster than it was safe to do so because of my lack of experience with lighter bikes! I think once you've experienced this, you kind of understand why spending more will get you more, especially if you're doing 20+ miles a day & incorporating HIIT on certain stretches etc.
Superman_turbo_pro_300011/06/2020 22:27

Yea, sadly I neglected my pension during my 20's so I'm playing catch up …Yea, sadly I neglected my pension during my 20's so I'm playing catch up in that department.... Honestly they should have a "Household Economics" gcse at school so that even children who leave at 16 know about Pensions, ISAs, Mortgages, Child Maintenance, Divorce Claims, Renting and Buying Property... Etc etc


Very true, but the books : Rich Dad Poor Dad , Think and Grow Rich will help at any age!
Superman_turbo_pro_300011/06/2020 19:49

I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. …I think that performance is to do with the rider more than the bike. Bradley Wiggins could kick my ass on a halfords mountain bike even if I had this £2800 one. I don't think 99% of people will see any improvement by buying a bike costing more than about £700.... For £700 you can get Shimano sora/105 2x9 groupset. Strong but maybe slightly heavier aluminium 700c wheels. A good aluminium frame with dual pivot rim calipers.A pair of continental 28x700c tyres.99% of riders can achieve their best with a simple set up like that.


There's far more to it than just raw performance. My first road bike was similar to what you describe and it was a good bike for getting me into road biking but I've never regretted the Trek Domane I bought a couple of years ago which is a more comfortable bike, it feels great and that makes a big difference when clocking up big miles especially on long riding days. Some features like electric shifting are harder to justify for their cost but I get a lot of use out of them and love the effortless feel of jumping gears with a button press. I've just finished an 1100 mile lockdown challenge which didn't have any longer rides due to restrictions but I never managed anything like that on the older bike.

I'd much rather spend the money on the bike which is something I spend a lot of time on rather than forking out on a new car and losing more than the value of the bike in the first couple of years depreciation. People can choose to spend money how they want but I don't know why people balk so much at expensive bikes.
Edited by: "Johnmcl7" 12th Jun
hotb12/06/2020 00:07

Very true, but the books : Rich Dad Poor Dad , Think and Grow Rich will …Very true, but the books : Rich Dad Poor Dad , Think and Grow Rich will help at any age!


I work in finance and know of those. They work with fairly simple ideas such as:

A) The time value of money and compound interest.
Start saving younger and time will grow your capital for you.

B) Live within your means.
Adjust spending habits to take advantage of point a.

C) Have a go at starting a businesses without risking too much money. Start online.

And they tend to regurgitate those points over and over in different guises.


Specific UK points I would highlight are;

- Ask your employer about salary sacrifice, as the savings in tax, national insurance, and Student Loan payments mean that a monthly £200 contribution into your pension via salary sacrifice would "cost" you about a £118 reduction in your monthly wage, whereas topping up by debit card online would cost you £160 in order to add £200.

- consider taking out a Lifetime ISA (LISA) if you're definitely going to save to buy a house.
Edited by: "Superman_turbo_pro_3000" 12th Jun
Fantastic Deal. Nearly jumped on the Silver Version at £2999 in Small the other day, basically having the Frame for nothing at this Pricepoint!
Vanderlust11/06/2020 18:52

Just spotted …Just spotted this:https://www.merlincycles.com/3t-strada-team-replica-aero-road-bike-145500.htmlThat notorious X1 3t Strada down from £6299 to £2650. Another bargain if you got it on Cyclescheme or whatever.58% off + 20 to 40% =£2120 to £1590£1590!!!


When I got my cycle scheme voucher the maximum I could get was £1,000 - so essentially the savings were only on the first grand of the bike I purchased. Not sure if that varies by employer. Still worth saving the 40% on that first grand - but as others have alluded to, I had to pay that final % payment on the whole value of the bike.
oldcrazy7712/06/2020 10:09

When I got my cycle scheme voucher the maximum I could get was £1,000 - so …When I got my cycle scheme voucher the maximum I could get was £1,000 - so essentially the savings were only on the first grand of the bike I purchased. Not sure if that varies by employer. Still worth saving the 40% on that first grand - but as others have alluded to, I had to pay that final % payment on the whole value of the bike.


As far as Cyclescheme goes, it used to be £1,000 maximum, it was recently changed to unlimited BUT it's down to the employer as to whether they adjust the upward limit they offer through it, and whether they want to set an upper limit.
Other schemes may vary.
I had a very poor experience with this retailer just recently, when they sold me an expensive piece of equipment with the obvious signs of use for the price of new. No problem with return and refund, but staying away from this shop from now on.
Waaaaay out of my price range these days, but a nice spec - have some heat for the effort put in to the post alone!
MilkTheFrog12/06/2020 11:28

This seems like a good deal if you need a 54cm around a grand …This seems like a good deal if you need a 54cm around a grand https://www.startfitness.co.uk/cycle/bikes/road-bikes/scott-2018-addict-30-mens-road-bike-black-265354.html



They're listing the build at 8.5kg. That's suspiciously light for a £1500 bike. Seriously good value for a grand.

To put it into context, Trek are about to launch the new Emonda climbing bike, and the SL6 version is over 8.3kg, at £3k.
Vanderlust11/06/2020 21:07

Penalty between my posh bike and gravel bike on the same Conti 4000sII …Penalty between my posh bike and gravel bike on the same Conti 4000sII tyres is around 2mph over a 2 hour ride at sweet spot.Huge difference there. A lot of guys will train for years and never get 2mph faster on their favourite loop, given the same conditions.Clearly it's obvious a professional athlete on a crap bike will be faster than a poor rider on a good one. Though it's odd that would pass for wisdom. No-one buys a good bike to beat a professional rider. They buy it because it's more enjoyable to ride, and more expensive bikes definitely feel so much better to ride than a £700 Halfords effort.They ARE also faster too. It's physics. You can build bikes with over 100 watt differences between them. Unless you don't believe in aerodynamics, gravity or efficient gear ratios. Nevermind the well studied psychological aspect of performance.To put that into context, there will be naysayers with sub 200 watt FTPs. That would mean the difference between two extreme bike builds would equate to 50% of your power at threshold! But as always, grouchy, cheap bike guy knows best. He's faster than all of us on his Halfords bike And even if you were. Who cares, if you can afford nice things, then go for it. We're not communists, though some people act like it when they can't have what they can't afford or don't see value in


Look, some of us here appreciate the expensive bike just as a neat piece of engineering that's it. But talking about 100w difference on two bikes for a person with 200FTP just doesn't make sense as that person won't be able to go fast enough to generate that difference.
In my view for such people a much better idea to spend money is save some money on a nice holiday or just take a few days off or something so they can train more than get a nicer bike.So yes, there is an audience for these bikes but trying to rationalize it with some hypothetical power data doesn't seem like a particularly useful scenario...
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