299°
EXPIRED
DIY PC: Case+PSU, Intel E5300, Asus P5KPL-AM, 4Gb Corsair, 1Tb Samsung, DVD-rw drive = £206.99 @ Scan (with the free del option)
DIY PC: Case+PSU, Intel E5300, Asus P5KPL-AM, 4Gb Corsair, 1Tb Samsung, DVD-rw drive = £206.99 @ Scan (with the free del option)

DIY PC: Case+PSU, Intel E5300, Asus P5KPL-AM, 4Gb Corsair, 1Tb Samsung, DVD-rw drive = £206.99 @ Scan (with the free del option)

Buy forBuy forBuy for£206.99
GETGet dealVisit site and get deal
Seems a good alternative to eBuyer's similar system (links below), but with many RETAIL & BRANDED components.

£217.83 without the free delivery. See below for FREE delviery.

Likely to be on for ONE day only, expiring around mid-day tomorrow (03/09/09).

"Intel E5300 DIY Combo"

+ CiT 1006, Black mini ATX Tower Case, SECC, Headphone/ Mic In/ 2x USB 2.0, 450W PSU
+ Intel Pentium Dual-Core, E5300, S775, Wolfdale, 2.6 GHz, 2MB Cache, 13x Core Ratio, 65W, Retail
+ 1TB Samsung HD103UJ Spinpoint F1, SATA 3Gb/s, 7200rpm, 32MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ
+ 4GB (2x2GB) Corsair TwinX DDR2 XMS2, PC2-8500 (1066), 240 Pin, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-6-6-18
+ Asus P5KPL-AM iG31, S775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 1066(OC)/667/800, SATA 3Gb/s, uATX, VGA
+ Samsung SH-S222A/BEBE 22x DVD±R, 12x DVD±DL, DVD+RW x8/-RW x6, DVD-RAM x12, IDE Black OEM

- NO keyboard or mouse (like eBuyer's one) but these are cheap enough to buy separately if required.
- NO operating system either, just like the eBuyer one.

Please NOTE: This DIY PC will need some basic knowledge of building a PC, as the components will need self-assembly (unless someone knows better)

Free delivery via:
- avforums.com/for…php
- forums.hexus.net/sca…tml

eBuyer's similar PC for comparison (whenever it was posted in the past & present):
hotukdeals.com/for…818
hotukdeals.com/for…645
hotukdeals.com/for…896
hotukdeals.com/for…323

35 Comments

Original Poster

]Case + PSU @ Scan (pics & details below)

]Motherboard @ Asus (to see full specs).

Has integrated graphics & a 16x PCI-E slot for a GPU upgrade. Best possible one to go for (from a 3D/gaming viewpoint) without having to upgrade the PSU is an ATI HD4670.

Scan are doing a Gigabyte-branded one on their ]TodayOnly page for £53. Otherwise look on eBuyer for more choice at good prices.

You may also fit other lower-end graphics cards if required, &/or to increase connectivity options (e.g. DVI & HDMI). E.g. a HD4350 - related search at ]eBuyer.

Free delivery via: ]AV Forums//]Hexus Forums (please don't be shy to contribute there with your input, etc - both are excellent forums)

eBuyer's similar PC for comparison (whenever it was posted in the past & present):
][COLOR=#123889]EXPIRED - Extra Value Desktop PC, Intel E5300, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, DVDRW, NO OS - £219.80 Delivered @ Ebuyer[/COLOR]
][COLOR=#123889]EXPIRED - Extra Value Desktop PC Intel E5300 4GB RAM 500GB HDD DVDRW NO OS £219.91 delivered @ Ebuyer.com[/COLOR]
][COLOR=#123889]EXPIRED - Extra Value Desktop PC Intel E5300 4GB RAM 500GB HDD DVDRW NO OS £209.99 delivered @ Ebuyer.com[/COLOR]
][COLOR=#123889]EXPIRED - Desktop PC Intel E5300 Dual Core 4GB RAM 500GB @ Ebuyer[/COLOR]
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http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/275/cit1006pccasescandiycom.jpg
Case features (main ones only):
• Bottom oriented PSU with ON/OFF Switch 1006 • Side venting air duct • 80mm Black Cooling Fan Included • Standard padlock loop
• Comes with 450W PSU with 20+24 Pin and SATA (very possibly no dedicated PCI-E connector)
• Form Factor: Micro ATX
• Front Panel: 1x Headphone, 1x Mic In & 2x USB 2.0
• Drive Bays: 1x 3.5" / 5.25" External & 2x 5.25" External
• Dimensions: 175 x 385 x 410 (WxHxD mm)

Just out of interest, what would you need to turn this package into a working PC?

As far as I can see, it's:

Operating System
Monitor
Mouse, Keyboard
Speakers
Power cable ?
Internal cables?

Plus the chops to put it together yourself. Anything else I'm missing?

crossbow could you recomend a graphics card? ill mainly be using the computer for some CAD work, general office work and watching hd movies

not bad....

Case & PSU 25
E5300 50
Hard Drive 55
RAM 45
Motherbord 32
DVD 20
=
227

I would have serious reservations about the power supply that you are getting - £25 for a case AND a 450W power supply?????

kendal;6187314

Just out of interest, what would you need to turn this package into a … Just out of interest, what would you need to turn this package into a working PC?As far as I can see, it's:- Operating System- Monitor- Mouse, Keyboard- Speakers- Power cable ?- Internal cables?Plus the chops to put it together yourself. Anything else I'm missing?



Speakers are optional.

If the motherboard is retail boxed then should come with various (internal) cables anyway, Asus website says it comes with:
User's manual
1 x UltraDMA 133/100/66 cable (ie probably what u need to connect the DVD)
1 x Floppy disk drive cable (people seldom bother with a FD anymore)
1 x SATA cable (ie to connect the hard-disk)
1 x SATA power cable (w/be an adapter from regular PSU end to SATA end)
I/O Shield (ie the metal bit that adapts the rectangular space on back of case to the way the ports are laid out on this particular motherboard)

So that would leave your list pretty accurate - and the case MIGHT come with a power cable - check its spec on Scan site (they are usually standard UK "Kettle" style).

Not much info about the PSU:

450w.
Bottom oriented PSU with ON/OFF Switch.

guerilla;6187373

crossbow could you recomend a graphics card? ill mainly be using the … crossbow could you recomend a graphics card? ill mainly be using the computer for some CAD work, general office work and watching hd movies



Well as OP mentioned, the motherboard is spec'd as incorporating basic/essential graphics circuitry:

"Integrated Intel Graphics Media Accelerator (Intel® GMA 3100)
Max. resolution:2048x1536X32bpp, Horizontal:127.5KHz Vertical:85Hz "
delivered via a VGA 15 pin connector.

So you could defer any graphics card - to fit the 1 x PCIe x16 slot - until after commissioning.

MKD

Dont know if the motherboard is retail, may give them a ring.

Original Poster

kendal, that's right. Although, I can't see them sending a DIY PC with drives but without any internal cables included! And as MKD mentioned, the motherboard should come with the internal cables if retail.

guerilla, the integrated one will be sufficient. You may want to look into a 'workstation' graphics card(?) for the CAD though (which one exactly please?), but these can be expensive - perhaps a secondhand one off eBay?

DanHandy, motherboard should be retail, but that call will be useful to confirm, ta :thumbsup:

killie99, eBuyer's one is probably worth £15 (case & PSU that is)!! Can't really expect too much better at this price.

mk-donald, thanks for all your input (repped).

The PSU is... well, let's just say that the PSU is a pass - buy a named one.

Seems like a great deal but I'd definitely change the PSU, firstly because it's not named (and therefore of questionable quality) and second (please correct me if I'm wrong here) but it might not be enough to power some of the high end graphics cards if you choose to install one.

pretty good value, nice touch getting a decent branded board and its a nice looking case,
have to admit not keen on samsung optical drives also there ain't much room in that case so be careful to check length of any gfx cards bought

Original Poster

Xeijin;6188612

Seems like a great deal but I'd definitely change the PSU, firstly … Seems like a great deal but I'd definitely change the PSU, firstly because it's not named (and therefore of questionable quality)

Not really necessary I'd say, but can do if desired :thumbsup:

Xeijin;6188612

....and second (please correct me if I'm wrong here) but it might not be … ....and second (please correct me if I'm wrong here) but it might not be enough to power some of the high end graphics cards if you choose to install one.

Yes, any mid-high range graphics card requiring one or more dedicated PCI-E connectors will require a better PSU.

maddogb, good point about the length of some graphics cards.

hmmm this is sort of what i want but i was gonna spend a little more.

Any advice? I wanna decent pc for gaming, I already have a really good gfx card and monitor so its just the rest needed - motherboard, cpu, memory, hd, case/psu. I don't know whats realistic for £300-350 and i'm a bit out of touch with all the latest stuff, like intel i7 amd quad core etc. Someone put me out of my misery and recommend some stuff please

Crossbow (or any other knowledgeable person) - what would you need to do to make this system High def?
Obviously need to add a blu ray drive, but what (if anything) else? Also, what would you do to make this more suiitable as a entertainment hub? I've used my existing, rather old, pc as such but it makes too much noise to make this a acceptable long term. How are power supplies rated for noise?

Cheers, Minski

Crossbow;6188670

Not really necessary I'd say, but can do if desired :thumbsup:


Unbranded PSU's just end up costing you - literally! They are generally less efficient (little saving there) but are also more likely to explode and take your case with it (lots of lost money there). The PSU is one of the most crucial, and normally overlooked, parts of a computer build.

kam1nsk1;6189243

Crossbow (or any other knowledgeable person) - what would you need to do … Crossbow (or any other knowledgeable person) - what would you need to do to make this system High def?Obviously need to add a blu ray drive, but what (if anything) else? Also, what would you do to make this more suiitable as a entertainment hub? I've used my existing, rather old, pc as such but it makes too much noise to make this a acceptable long term. How are power supplies rated for noise?Cheers, Minski


You would want a dedicated graphics card. Pretty much anything would do and you should be able to find a good passive card for around £50 - something like scan.co.uk/Pro…ard. I would suggest holding off on purchasing one as the DirectX 11 cards should be out soon (announced next month hopefully), and the rumour is AMD ATI will have a complete range from low to high-end. Even if they don't, prices should fall on the existing kit.

The motherboard has a built in soundchip capable of producing "hd", however, if you like your audio you'd also want to swap that out for a dedicated card.

In terms of how PSU's are reated for noise, I don't think they are. Best bet would be to spend time reading reviews, good review sites will let you know the noise - that will mean picking a branded one though!

If you are looking for an entertainment hub, I would however recommend instead buying an appropriate case - there are a huge variety which will fit in nicely depending on what you are going to be doing with it and airflow is also an important consideration if it will be in a tight space. If you want it next to your existing kit (under a tv etc...) you could consider something like: ebuyer.com/pro…945 (good price for an Antec case and PSU - better than lots of the no-name rubbish). If a normal size case will do, for £100 or so you could invest in a good case with plenty of sound proofing, e.g. scan.co.uk/Pro…PSU. I have the normal sized p180 big brother, and before I stuck some of the latest and great heat-producing Intel i7 kit inside it, I had a really nice setup that was nearly inaudible.

A huge drop in the noise can be achieved by changing your CPU cooling setup. It's the first place I'd start

kam1nsk1;6189243

Crossbow (or any other knowledgeable person) - what would you need to do … Crossbow (or any other knowledgeable person) - what would you need to do to make this system High def?Obviously need to add a blu ray drive, but what (if anything) else? Also, what would you do to make this more suiitable as a entertainment hub? I've used my existing, rather old, pc as such but it makes too much noise to make this a acceptable long term. How are power supplies rated for noise?Cheers, Minski



Are you looking to build a pure media center or do you want it for games too?

This is not the right basis for a media center, there are MUCH better options available component wise or pre-built. If you are planning a few games as well though and don't mind a little noise then this will be fine as a starting point with a graphics card added.

If just going for a pure media center the ASRock Ion systems are amazing value, pretty much silent and perfect spec. Only thing missing is the Blue-Ray drive, but this can be added later or there are supposedly ones available with it already fitted:

overclock.co.uk/pro…tml

The Acer Revo systems are great too but don't have anywhere to put the BluRay Drive. The main reason I would suggest looking at a Pre-Built one for Media Center usage is that they will definitely be very quiet. Buying quiet cases, PSU's, Graphics Cards and CPU coolers can be very expensive.

kam1nsk1;6189243

Crossbow (or any other knowledgeable person) - what would you need to do … Crossbow (or any other knowledgeable person) - what would you need to do to make this system High def?Obviously need to add a blu ray drive, but what (if anything) else? Also, what would you do to make this more suiitable as a entertainment hub? I've used my existing, rather old, pc as such but it makes too much noise to make this a acceptable long term. How are power supplies rated for noise?Cheers, Minski



For high definition you will need a graphics card that is capable of HDCP decoding. Software players such as PowerCinema and ArcSoft's TotalMedia Theatre will check your graphics card for HDCP compliancy - if this is not available then the blu ray film will not play. Furthermore, HDCP is required from the monitor too so everything in the chain has to be HDCP compliant. Essentially, if your graphics card is HDCP compliant but your monitor is not, you will not be able to play HDCP encoded content such as blu ray films. If your monitor is HDCP compliant but the graphics card is not, then again you will not be able to play blu ray content.

The inbuilt Intel X3100 GPU is capable of playing non-HDCP encoded HD content though but for blu ray playback both the graphics card and monitor needs to meet HD Ready specifications. There is a workaround for this allowing the inbuilt Intel X3100 graphics to play blu ray content but I am not going to reveal the details as I have been in trouble before for commenting on issues which may not be legal.

Oh and people need to get off their PSU high horse. How many of you have actually had these cheap PSU's fail, who supplied them and what conditions did they fail under? In my (fairly extensive) experience they cause no issue if they come from a reputable retailer (like Scan) and you don't push them too hard. I have seen some terrible ones pop (literally in front of my eyes), but I have also seen some very reputable ones go too (Antec, Enermax and Seasonic to name but three). A E5300 CPU, single HDD, Optical Drive and any card up to a Radeon 4850 will only be requesting half the power this is rated for at peak usage. As such it will be up to the task (even if it requires a dual molex to PCI-E converter).

Thanks to both for the info, have some rep on me ;-)

kam1nsk1;6189772

Thanks to both for the info, have some rep on me ;-)



Thanks Kam, good luck with your build and let us know how you get on.

Original Poster

tickedon;6189682

Unbranded PSU's just end up costing you - literally! They are generally … Unbranded PSU's just end up costing you - literally! They are generally less efficient (little saving there) but are also more likely to explode and take your case with it (lots of lost money there). The PSU is one of the most crucial, and normally overlooked, parts of a computer build.

Whilst, I agree, it's quite rubbish at this price point. 80-90% of off-the-shelf PCs (excluding Dell's maybe) have just as good (or worse) PSUs.

The PSU included is fully capable of running the spec. All PSUs - even high-end expensive ones - can fail & damage your components. The chances are lower of course.

Funny, how little was said about the PSU in those eBuyer deals. And it's probably worse than this one.

sibeer;6189767

Oh and people need to get off their PSU high horse. How many of you have … Oh and people need to get off their PSU high horse. How many of you have actually had these cheap PSU's fail, who supplied them and what conditions did they fail under? In my (fairly extensive) experience they cause no issue if they come from a reputable retailer (like Scan) and you don't push them too hard. I have seen some terrible ones pop (literally in front of my eyes), but I have also seen some very reputable ones go too (Antec, Enermax and Seasonic to name but three). A E5300 CPU, single HDD, Optical Drive and any card up to a Radeon 4850 will only be requesting half the power this is rated for at peak usage. As such it will be up to the task (even if it requires a dual molex to PCI-E converter).

I fully agree :thumbsup:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Btw, I appreciate all the constructive comments & advice in the thread guys (including tickedon) & have given you all rep.

sibeer;6189767

Oh and people need to get off their PSU high horse. How many of you have … Oh and people need to get off their PSU high horse. How many of you have actually had these cheap PSU's fail, who supplied them and what conditions did they fail under? In my (fairly extensive) experience they cause no issue if they come from a reputable retailer (like Scan) and you don't push them too hard. I have seen some terrible ones pop (literally in front of my eyes), but I have also seen some very reputable ones go too (Antec, Enermax and Seasonic to name but three). A E5300 CPU, single HDD, Optical Drive and any card up to a Radeon 4850 will only be requesting half the power this is rated for at peak usage. As such it will be up to the task (even if it requires a dual molex to PCI-E converter).



There is some truth in that comment but also you need to be aware of efficiency of a PSU. The cheaper ones including branded ones have lower efficiency which can cause instability if taxed so there are issues if the PSU is not chosen judiciously. Furthermore, the lower efficiency PSUs means extra heat is generated rather than beingn utilised by the computer hence higher energy bills. PFC is also a factor. PFC can alter the electrical waves to a smoother sinusoidal wave giving an equal spreadage of current.

sibeer;6189767

Oh and people need to get off their PSU high horse. How many of you have … Oh and people need to get off their PSU high horse. How many of you have actually had these cheap PSU's fail, who supplied them and what conditions did they fail under? In my (fairly extensive) experience they cause no issue if they come from a reputable retailer (like Scan) and you don't push them too hard. I have seen some terrible ones pop (literally in front of my eyes), but I have also seen some very reputable ones go too (Antec, Enermax and Seasonic to name but three). A E5300 CPU, single HDD, Optical Drive and any card up to a Radeon 4850 will only be requesting half the power this is rated for at peak usage. As such it will be up to the task (even if it requires a dual molex to PCI-E converter).



Me, Q-tec, and an average system then (took out the motherboard). It's not all about the power rating. The capacitors inside the cheaper PSU's are (funnily enough) lower quality and often less of them. It means a power source that isn't as smooth, more liable to variations, rails are more likely to be further off the values, and crucially they won't have the same life expectancy. When capacitors go, it's not very nice

I also had the misfortune of working in IT for 1.5 years and repairing workstations, and saw it all the time with the lower quality kit (I agree Dell, HP etc... are terrible as well). It might save Dell/HP etc.. £10 etc... for the cheaper PSU, however, every company I worked for was prepared to spend that extra if it meant better quality kit less likely to fail (even with hot spares, you still waste time and reduce productivity, which costs money). I've never had a reliable brand-name PSU fail on me and never personally seen it.

tickedon;6189877

Me, Q-tec, and an average system then (took out the motherboard). It's … Me, Q-tec, and an average system then (took out the motherboard). It's not all about the power rating. The capacitors inside the cheaper PSU's are (funnily enough) lower quality and often less of them. It means a power source that isn't as smooth, more liable to variations, rails are more likely to be further off the values, and crucially they won't have the same life expectancy. When capacitors go, it's not very nice ;)I also worked in IT for 1.5 years and saw it all the time with the lower quality kit. I've never had a reliable brand-name PSU fail on me.



Quite and when held in the palm of the hand a cheap PSU feels incredibly light too due to the poor quality windings.

tickedon;6189877

Me, Q-tec, and an average system then (took out the motherboard). It's … Me, Q-tec, and an average system then (took out the motherboard). It's not all about the power rating. The capacitors inside the cheaper PSU's are (funnily enough) lower quality and often less of them. It means a power source that isn't as smooth, more liable to variations, rails are more likely to be further off the values, and crucially they won't have the same life expectancy. When capacitors go, it's not very nice ;)I also had the misfortune of working in IT for 1.5 years and repairing workstations, and saw it all the time with the lower quality kit (I agree Dell, HP etc... are terrible as well). It might save Dell/HP etc.. £10 etc... for the cheaper PSU, however, every company I worked for was prepared to spend that extra if it meant better quality kit less likely to fail (even with hot spares, you still waste time and reduce productivity, which costs money). I've never had a reliable brand-name PSU fail on me and never personally seen it.



Now Q-Tec is an unfair example of bad manufacturing, everyone knows they were a joke shop :whistling:

I have worked in IT for 14 years now (since building Pentium 2 systems for our family business). The reason cheap PSU's have such a bad name these days is because about 7-8 years ago the power requirements of PC's were going up and prices were flying down to commodity levels we now see. At that point the likes of Ebuyer were aggressively grabbing market share by selling unheard of makes at silly cheap prices and the rest of the market followed. I remember getting case and PSU sets for £10 thinking it was just because i'd never heard of the brand and not realising that they could not run at anywhere near the rated power day in day out. These days though you struggle to get such cheap and massively over rated supplies. I happily use Scan's EZ-Cool range in budget systems with no probs at all. The low power requirements of most modern systems mean that things are running cool and well withing their comfort zone so unlikely to fail if properly matched.

Whilst most businesses will pay more for reliabilty on servers and workstations, I am sure you will find they also mainly use HP / Dell / IBM / etc for the day to day office boxes. They don't go and change all the cheap PSU's in these because they do not fail very often so it isn't a problem.

Original Poster

OK guys that's enough about the PSU please

]Computers/Misc section beckons :thumbsup:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
markeh;6188939

hmmm this is sort of what i want but i was gonna spend a little more.Any … hmmm this is sort of what i want but i was gonna spend a little more.Any advice? I wanna decent pc for gaming, I already have a really good gfx card and monitor so its just the rest needed - motherboard, cpu, memory, hd, case/psu. I don't know whats realistic for £300-350 and i'm a bit out of touch with all the latest stuff, like intel i7 amd quad core etc. Someone put me out of my misery and recommend some stuff please

Hi markeh, we're not ignoring you. I think it may be best to start a fresh thread in the ]Computers/Misc section - otherwise we'll be going off-topic.

Your discussion might get lost in the PSU Wars too

Hope you find what you're looking for :thumbsup:

ElliottC;6189890

Quite and when held in the palm of the hand a cheap PSU feels incredibly … Quite and when held in the palm of the hand a cheap PSU feels incredibly light too due to the poor quality windings.



Agreed, but you also have to consider the case material and what power you are expecting out of it. For instance Dell PSU's often weight a tonne because they are made out of fairly thick steel as much as the quality. Also most people probably don't know what weight it should be.

Crossbow;6190116

OK guys that's enough about the PSU please :)]Computers/Misc section … OK guys that's enough about the PSU please :)]Computers/Misc section beckons :thumbsup:-------------------------------------------------------------------Hi markeh, we're not ignoring you. I think it may be best to start a fresh thread in the ]Computers/Misc section - otherwise we'll be going off-topic.Your discussion might get lost in the PSU Wars too :pHope you find what you're looking for :thumbsup:



cheers will do :thumbsup:

got totally distracted only just remembered i posted

Thanks for posting this, just ordered one.

I already have an unused OEM copy of Vista Home Premium I bought about a year ago (on a misprice posted on this site, for about £32 I think), so when built it will replace the ageing Dell system unit for our family PC.

I just added up all the individual components on scan and they come to £223.60.

I already have a case so I looked at buying the same set of components at ebuyer (less case) but:
* The memory was £8 more expensive as ebuyer
* The motherboard was £4.50 more expensive at ebuyer
* the hard disk was about £1 more expensive at ebuyer
* the CPU about £1 cheaper at ebuyer
* the DVD drive about the same at ebuyer

but without the "bundle" price from Scan it cost more from ebuyer even without the case (but postage would have been free if I had selected super saver)

guilbert53;6191428

Thanks for posting this, just ordered one.I already have an unused OEM … Thanks for posting this, just ordered one.I already have an unused OEM copy of Vista Home Premium I bought about a year ago (on a misprice posted on this site, for about £32 I think), so when built it will replace the ageing Dell system unit for our family PC.I just added up all the individual components on scan and they come to £223.60.I already have a case so I looked at buying the same set of components at ebuyer (less case) but: * The memory was £8 more expensive as ebuyer* The motherboard was £4.50 more expensive at ebuyer* the hard disk was about £1 more expensive at ebuyer * the CPU about £1 cheaper at ebuyer * the DVD drive about the same at ebuyer but without the "bundle" price from Scan it cost more from ebuyer even without the case (but postage would have been free if I had selected super saver)



Get yourself over to AV Forums and get free delivery for Scan, next day as well :thumbsup:

sibeer;6192967

Get yourself over to AV Forums and get free delivery for Scan, next day … Get yourself over to AV Forums and get free delivery for Scan, next day as well :thumbsup:



I have already subscribed to AVForums months ago, but must admit I have never made a post.

To be honest I cant work out how you get free delivery on the Scan site if you are subscribed to AVForums anyway.

guilbert53;6193758

I have already subscribed to AVForums months ago, but must admit I have … I have already subscribed to AVForums months ago, but must admit I have never made a post.To be honest I cant work out how you get free delivery on the Scan site if you are subscribed to AVForums anyway.



you need to click thru to scan from the avforums link ]HERE

but you will have to have made so many posts be careful i expect the mods have to look out for posts made to boost this
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