(Pre Owned) Left 4 Dead - XB1/X360 £3.19 delivered @ Music Magpie (Using code)
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(Pre Owned) Left 4 Dead - XB1/X360 £3.19 delivered @ Music Magpie (Using code)

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Found 29th Apr 2017
CODE: MAYBANK20

Great price for Left 4 Dead which is Xbox One backwards compatible.
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I play this on PC. How active is the playerbase for this on Xbox? In particular, how hard is it to find a versus game with experienced players?

Are there performance issues?

Is this likely to come on Games with Gold?

Would I be missing a lot without the GOTY edition? The Sacrifice is one of my favourite campaigns.

How difficult is it to do certain advanced tricks? For example flying around with the hunter by continually repounce get off the skybox - really cool but probably difficult with an analogue stick? Incredibly deep teamwork game.

Edited by: "misa426" 29th Apr 2017
This isn't the same game as on the PC, it barely got any updates and I don't think the player base is very large at all. As this runs on a toaster, if you want to play it PC is the only real option.

I'm not voting either way as I haven't checked prices but I imagine you will be wasting £3.19
carsick77

This isn't the same game as on the PC, it barely got any updates and I … This isn't the same game as on the PC, it barely got any updates and I don't think the player base is very large at all. As this runs on a toaster, if you want to play it PC is the only real option.I'm not voting either way as I haven't checked prices but I imagine you will be wasting £3.19



Ok what about number 2
​I play number 2 everyday. Always find a game within seconds, no matter the time of day. you can play all of the original L4D maps if you buy a DLC which I think is a fiver. There is a left 4 dead community club which covers both games and is very active, you get good and bad people on every game but I don't come across many people that suck and there is always the vote to kick option X) advanced tricks are not a problem (for me at least) but I've been a console gamer my whole life lol. Great game on PC but I run into way too many people modding.

misa426

I play this on PC. How active is the playerbase for this on Xbox? In … I play this on PC. How active is the playerbase for this on Xbox? In particular, how hard is it to find a versus game with experienced players? Are there performance issues? Is this likely to come on Games with Gold?Would I be missing a lot without the GOTY edition? The Sacrifice is one of my favourite campaigns. How difficult is it to do certain advanced tricks? For example flying around with the hunter by continually repounce get off the skybox - really cool but probably difficult with an analogue stick? Incredibly deep teamwork game.



I hope you don't use that to actually gain an advantage?
I see and do you encounter any performance issues on Xbox One backwards compatibility? And does 30FPS lock make it harder to enjoy than PC?
LFD2 community is now mainly diehard fans, many of which use questionable add-ons, hacks and cheats to ensure their continual dominance. This prevents novice users from really enjoying the experience, which is a real shame as the on-line co-operative and team gameplay was second to none, especially in the early stage of development. Sadly Valve stopped really updating, and correcting the faults, glitches and adding new maps, although there is an active modding community. Although don't take my comments from distracting anyone from purchasing the game, as it still has one of the best off-line campaigns, especially co-operatively with friends.
misa426

Ok what about number 2



Admittedly, I thought this was number 2. The first will certainly be dead. As other have said, the second includes all the left4dead 1 maps as well (free on PC, DLC on Xbox).

My recommendation would be L4D2 on PC or don't bother.
Good price for a brilliant game. I always play with friends anyway. Unfortunately OOS!
OOS.
L4D is one of the best online games I have played and the characters are much less annoying than L4D2. Didn't realise the original was backwards compatible though thought that it was only if you had L4D 2 and you could get L4D on the DLC.
copperspock

I hope you don't use that to actually gain an advantage?



I do. Like many tricks that are possible, it takes a fair bit of practice to pull off. Same goes for eg bunny hopping for extra damage (as hunter) or for speed (as boomer/survivor). With this trick you can land 25+ damage pounces and it's a lot of fun
misa426

I do. Like many tricks that are possible, it takes a fair bit of practice … I do. Like many tricks that are possible, it takes a fair bit of practice to pull off. Same goes for eg bunny hopping for extra damage (as hunter) or for speed (as boomer/survivor). With this trick you can land 25+ damage pounces and it's a lot of fun



So you're availing of flaws in the game to gain an unfair advantage. That'll be a lot of fun for the other team.
copperspock

So you're availing of flaws in the game to gain an unfair advantage. … So you're availing of flaws in the game to gain an unfair advantage. That'll be a lot of fun for the other team.



I usually play with experienced players, and the other team uses tricks too eg hunter kai pouncing on invisible walls. There is nothing unfair about it. Anyone with enough practice can make use of the tricks. You call them "flaws" but I disagree. The game is a decade old, the developers are no doubt aware of them and could have easily fixed such flaws if they felt it was unfair
misa426

I usually play with experienced players, and the other team uses tricks … I usually play with experienced players, and the other team uses tricks too eg hunter kai pouncing on invisible walls. There is nothing unfair about it. Anyone with enough practice can make use of the tricks. You call them "flaws" but I disagree. The game is a decade old, the developers are no doubt aware of them and could have easily fixed such flaws if they felt it was unfair



One team cheating does not negate the cheating of the other team. Do you really think the developers intended for the Hunter to bounce off the skybox?
The fact that the flaws weren't fixed doesn't mean the developers thought they were fair. They could have just stopped working on it.
copperspock

One team cheating does not negate the cheating of the other team. Do you … One team cheating does not negate the cheating of the other team. Do you really think the developers intended for the Hunter to bounce off the skybox?The fact that the flaws weren't fixed doesn't mean the developers thought they were fair. They could have just stopped working on it.



But they didn't stop working on it. The "flaw" is not fixed in either the first or second game, both of which have continued to receive updates. The hunter is designed such that when he is angled a certain degree, he may repounce. Yes, this is a developer intended feature. Whether the skybox was intended to be used in this way I don't care. It is not cheating. It is doable by anyone upon a fresh install if they have the skill and know-how. The same could be said for many other of the game's unintended features including bunny hopping.

I don't believe you have ever played such a versus game, because if you had you would know the boundaries of the maps, or "clipbrushes" were intentionally modified by the community to allow access to more of these invisible walls/ceilings for more pounce damage, as well as unlocking the pounce damage cap beyond 25. If you do not understand or make use of certain such tactics at the higher competitive level, you lose. In my view they add a great deal of depth to the hunter and removal of such flaws would actually remove a wonderful game element.
misa426

But they didn't stop working on it. The "flaw" is not fixed in either the … But they didn't stop working on it. The "flaw" is not fixed in either the first or second game, both of which have continued to receive updates. The hunter is designed such that when he is angled a certain degree, he may repounce. Yes, this is a developer intended feature. Whether the skybox was intended to be used in this way I don't care. It is not cheating. It is doable by anyone upon a fresh install if they have the skill and know-how. The same could be said for many other of the game's unintended features including bunny hopping. I don't believe you have ever played such a versus game, because if you had you would know the boundaries of the maps, or "clipbrushes" were intentionally modified by the community to allow access to more of these invisible walls/ceilings for more pounce damage, as well as unlocking the pounce damage cap beyond 25. If you do not understand or make use of certain such tactics at the higher competitive level, you lose. In my view they add a great deal of depth to the hunter and removal of such flaws would actually remove a wonderful game element.



Still receiving updates? That's cool. Though that still wouldn't mean that the developers necessarily think the exploits are fair.
I've played both games (on console). I've never encountered people playing like that. The games have an internal logic for physics - flying across the sky is obviously going counter to how the games are meant to be played.

It may be doable for anyone, but newbies joining the game will get wrecked through no fault of their own, even if they know how to play it. It would be an uneven playing field.
Now it wouldn't be so much of a problem if there are dedicated servers where people know what to expect, but doing this in a normal server would be pretty crappy to me.
copperspock

Still receiving updates? That's cool. Though that still wouldn't mean … Still receiving updates? That's cool. Though that still wouldn't mean that the developers necessarily think the exploits are fair.I've played both games (on console). I've never encountered people playing like that. The games have an internal logic for physics - flying across the sky is obviously going counter to how the games are meant to be played.It may be doable for anyone, but newbies joining the game will get wrecked through no fault of their own, even if they know how to play it. It would be an uneven playing field.Now it wouldn't be so much of a problem if there are dedicated servers where people know what to expect, but doing this in a normal server would be pretty crappy to me.



Still receiving updates, yes, and still no fix for these "flaws". The developers are undoubtedly aware of them by now, so yes the fact that they are unpatched after 9 years is a fairly strong indication that the developers do not see a problem with their use. I'm not sure what makes you the expert on "how the game is meant to be played." It's a game, the physics are not a simulation of reality. The hunter by nature defies gravity with his leaps. You haven't encountered people using the skybox trick most probably because it is extremely difficult to pull off with a controller.

Newbies will get rekt you say? Well of course they will. Newbies get rekt in any competitive game until they get good. However, as I already explained to you I play with experienced players. There are no newbies joining my games. We make a private friends only lobby and play on specific competitive servers.
misa426

Still receiving updates, yes, and still no fix for these "flaws". The … Still receiving updates, yes, and still no fix for these "flaws". The developers are undoubtedly aware of them by now, so yes the fact that they are unpatched after 9 years is a fairly strong indication that the developers do not see a problem with their use. I'm not sure what makes you the expert on "how the game is meant to be played." It's a game, the physics are not a simulation of reality. The hunter by nature defies gravity with his leaps. You haven't encountered people using the skybox trick most probably because it is extremely difficult to pull off with a controller. Newbies will get rekt you say? Well of course they will. Newbies get rekt in any competitive game until they get good. However, as I already explained to you I play with experienced players. There are no newbies joining my games. We make a private friends only lobby and play on specific competitive servers.



I didn't say I was an expert or suggest that the in-game physics were a simulation of reality, I said the games have an internal logic for physics. Arguing that the Hunter is meant to fly is a big stretch :). The hunter is able to pounce by jumping off objects. People take advantage of the skybox having collision detection to use it as a surface to continually pounce off.

The developers are undoubtedly aware of them by now, so yes the fact that … The developers are undoubtedly aware of them by now, so yes the fact that they are unpatched after 9 years is a fairly strong indication that the developers do not see a problem with their use.



That's not the only explanation. Since the manoeuvre is apparently so difficult to pull off, they may have thought it's not worth the effort redesigning all the levels to counter.

Newbies will get rekt you say? Well of course they will. Newbies get rekt … Newbies will get rekt you say? Well of course they will. Newbies get rekt in any competitive game until they get good.



Newbies will get wrecked even if they know how to play the game normally.

However, as I already explained to you I play with experienced players.



You said you usually play with experienced players above, meaning you sometimes play with inexperienced players.

There are no newbies joining my games. We make a private friends only … There are no newbies joining my games. We make a private friends only lobby and play on specific competitive servers.



Then I wouldn't have so much of a problem with that. It's using these exploits in a standard server that'd I'd take issue with, and that'd include on console.
copperspock

I didn't say I was an expert or suggest that the in-game physics were a … I didn't say I was an expert or suggest that the in-game physics were a simulation of reality, I said the games have an internal logic for physics. Arguing that the Hunter is meant to fly is a big stretch :). The hunter is able to pounce by jumping off objects. People take advantage of the skybox having collision detection to use it as a surface to continually pounce off.


Then those people deserve a congratulations for being able to pull it off. It isn't technically flying. It's simply angling the hunter so that he pounces just low enough to allow him to continue to pounce. The hunter can use the same technique for quickly climbing walls vertically. The skybox may not have been designed to be used in this way but the same could be said for invisible walls, yet they have been embraced, at least in the competitive scene that I play in, as fair game for gaining height for high damage pounces.

That's not the only explanation. Since the manoeuvre is apparently so … That's not the only explanation. Since the manoeuvre is apparently so difficult to pull off, they may have thought it's not worth the effort redesigning all the levels to counter.


It's not the only explanation, but it's the most likely one. What makes you think it would require a redesign of all the levels? I'm not sure how well you understand the game engine, but AFAIK with only a few lines of code you can tell the game to disallow pouncing from ceilings. It's simple to prevent.

Newbies will get wrecked even if they know how to play the game normally.


I've never once encountered a newbie who could play the game normally, and by definition that is what I'd expect. Newbies are generally terrible at any competitive game. But again, what do I care if a newbie gets rekt? The world isn't fair, that's not my problem.

You said you usually play with experienced players above, meaning you … You said you usually play with experienced players above, meaning you sometimes play with inexperienced players.


I think my definition of "experienced" may be on a slightly different scale. Where I play, the average play time is 2000 hours. 500 hours is generally the very lowest experience level. What I consider to be "inexperienced" doesn't mean the same as an absolute "newbie", someone with say, below 100 hours. Yes I do play sometimes, but rarely, with inexperienced players. Often they are vote kicked out of the game, although I personally like to give them a good chance to do their best. I even have my own group dedicated to helping out newbies.

Then I wouldn't have so much of a problem with that. It's using these … Then I wouldn't have so much of a problem with that. It's using these exploits in a standard server that'd I'd take issue with, and that'd include on console.


They're even more difficult to pull off on a standard server due to the lower number of pounce-able walls, higher lag, etc. Anyone able to do them on a standard server and land the pounce earns my respect.
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