Pro-ject Prmary 'E' Turntable £149 @ Seven Oaks
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Pro-ject Prmary 'E' Turntable £149 @ Seven Oaks

42
Refreshed 20th Aug (Posted 19th Aug)
Strictly speaking not a deal as such as £149 is the SRP.
But had to post because I've been looking around for a good turntable and I see this turntable represents fantastic value for money.

You have here the well regarded Project Primary turntable that has been updated to the model 'E' and lowered in price.

Has a decent ortofon cartridge. Dust cover also included.
Only snag with this kit is that you need to have an amplifier with phono input otherwise you need a separate phono preamp to plug into a standard amp with auxiliary input.


£149 gets you less project kit elsewhere.

Some more info here.
stereonet.co.uk/news/pro-ject-primary-e-brings-hi-fi-sound-to-everyone

Free delivery to UK it says.

Project turntables have got a great reputation for good audio quality.

This kit is more manual though in that you have to change belt position manually to change speed. And you have to manully place stylus on record ie no automatic function. But the audio quality makes up for that.
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It looks like belt drive rather than direct drive?
callmaster57 m ago

It looks like belt drive rather than direct drive?


It is direct drive, according to the information on the link.
Haven't you lot heard of cassettes?
chimp14uk8 m ago

Haven't you lot heard of cassettes?


Pah! Newfangled technology. It'll never catch on!
It is belt driven, if you read the spec, the 'direct' they are talking about is in relation to the power supply to the motor, which then drives a silicone belt. Still sound interesting thou!
Broc_Mudflap2 m ago

Pah! Newfangled technology. It'll never catch on!


It's the future, I've seen it.
nostoneunturned7 m ago

It is belt driven, if you read the spec, the 'direct' they are talking …It is belt driven, if you read the spec, the 'direct' they are talking about is in relation to the power supply to the motor, which then drives a silicone belt. Still sound interesting thou!


Oh yes, so it is! So much for only reading half of the information!
nostoneunturned1 h, 21 m ago

It is belt driven, if you read the spec, the 'direct' they are talking …It is belt driven, if you read the spec, the 'direct' they are talking about is in relation to the power supply to the motor, which then drives a silicone belt. Still sound interesting thou!



It's in the news! Direct drive decks (the real ones) make your records sound worse! Says Linn. I would find the quote but it was
about 50 years ago now.
jasee13 m ago

It's in the news! Direct drive decks (the real ones) make your records …It's in the news! Direct drive decks (the real ones) make your records sound worse! Says Linn. I would find the quote but it wasabout 50 years ago now.


No surprise statement from Linn. However 50+ years technology has moved on & motors have changed/improved. As well as turntable design.

That said most up market turntables still use belt drive albeit at the expense of expensive drive electronics.
Kulaak4 m ago

No surprise statement from Linn. However 50+ years technology has moved on …No surprise statement from Linn. However 50+ years technology has moved on & motors have changed/improved. As well as turntable design.That said most up market turntables still use belt drive albeit at the expense of expensive drive electronics.



Really
What will they think of next
Edited by: "jasee" 20th Aug
Cold - can't play my 78's on this, just 33 and 45's only
I believe belt driven are better for isolating mechanical vibration from the motor, but don't like the idea of manually shifting speed, surely that would stretch the belt before too long?
random_dude28 m ago

I believe belt driven are better for isolating mechanical vibration from …I believe belt driven are better for isolating mechanical vibration from the motor, but don't like the idea of manually shifting speed, surely that would stretch the belt before too long?


modern direct drive use brushless v large diameter multipole motors. There is zero mechanical vibration as the platter is on a huge high spec bearing and this is the only mechanical resistance. belt drive can also be as stable of course but any flex in the belt will give doppler like worble on playback... back in the day, with brushed motors, bad bearings etc. there may have been an argument.... now its just the same nonsense as 'these valves sound so much richer....'... etc...
chimp14uk4 h, 20 m ago

Haven't you lot heard of cassettes?


I swear by 8 track tapes myself...
Ignore what I wrote about henleyaudio! The dealer here is sevenoaks
Hmm manually moving the belt seems daft when it's so easy to have an electronic speed control like nearly every turntable ever made. Grease on you finger, the added stetching of the belt surely outweighs any hip cool reason to use this method.

I'm sure some bright spark will tell me why it's so essential but it seems to spoil an otherwise decent looking deck.

I'm surprised that in this age of must have brushless powertools that we don't see brushless direct drive platters. (we had them in VHS recorders back in the mid 80's after all)
Edited by: "spannerzone" 20th Aug
The £50 USB one is perfect. Vinyl record doesn't care how its driven.
spannerzone10 h, 5 m ago

Hmm manually moving the belt seems daft when it's so easy to have an …Hmm manually moving the belt seems daft when it's so easy to have an electronic speed control like nearly every turntable ever made. Grease on you finger, the added stetching of the belt surely outweighs any hip cool reason to use this method.I'm sure some bright spark will tell me why it's so essential but it seems to spoil an otherwise decent looking deck.I'm surprised that in this age of must have brushless powertools that we don't see brushless direct drive platters. (we had them in VHS recorders back in the mid 80's after all)


Moving the belt is all part of the vinyl “experience”. You don’t listen to vinyl for the convenience. That’s why all my original vinyl that I loved back in the day and collected at 50p a go from charity shops in the early noughties, now live in a box in the loft and I sacrifice warmth and quality for convenience. I got fed up of balancing arms, cleaning records, changing cartridges and having to get off my arse every 25 mins to turn the record over - once mp3 came out I got fed up of having to change CDs every 60mins and with streaming I got fed up having to pay for albums that I may not even like - I am sure I will succumb to buying another record player one day soon and getting it all out, only to become frustrated and put it all back in the loft again. 😬
To pay for the automatic mechanism they would have had to take away something else. The dust cover maybe or fit a cheaper cartridge. It's all a sacrifice somewhere at this price point. For 149 Go for the lp3 posted this week if you want that convenience. But you won't have the ortofon cartridge on this project.
josephobrien200015 m ago

To pay for the automatic mechanism they would have had to take away …To pay for the automatic mechanism they would have had to take away something else. The dust cover maybe or fit a cheaper cartridge. It's all a sacrifice somewhere at this price point. For 149 Go for the lp3 posted this week if you want that convenience. But you won't have the ortofon cartridge on this project.


the manufscturing cost of that thing is probably under £20. It might be £24 with a direct drive system..... its just a low tech solution that is using nostalgia to justify a totally ridiculous price.....
Wait, so this is an item being sold at it's standard retail price that is freely available to buy? It's a great recommendation for a turntable, but..... It's not a "deal" though is it.
Haircut_1001 h, 34 m ago

Wait, so this is an item being sold at it's standard retail price that is …Wait, so this is an item being sold at it's standard retail price that is freely available to buy? It's a great recommendation for a turntable, but..... It's not a "deal" though is it.


That depends on your point of view.
Yes £149 is the SRP. So it's not on 'offer'
But this is a brand new turntable on the market and it is not widely publicised.
Older project primary turntables are selling for £170+ from whatn i can see .
See here :
richersounds.com/pro…tml

So from.my point of view HUKDers may benefit from this post so therefore could be perceived as a deal. I.e newer model better deal over older model.
jj_jj15 h, 21 m ago

...any flex in the belt will give doppler like worble on playback...


You don't know what you are talking about do you?
bigsky2 h, 1 m ago

You don't know what you are talking about do you?


nice response, certainly seems to show your ignorance. Cheers though, I'm sure my comment will be useful to others, which is the point of the forum. take care... Unless you want to elaborate?? Maybe do a quick wiki search, come across as informed???
Edited by: "jj_jj" 21st Aug
foes4you13 h, 30 m ago

The £50 USB one is perfect. Vinyl record doesn't care how its driven.


That's not correct.
I bought an Ion USB turntable as it looked handy and convenient to record vinyl to a digital format. It honestly sounded lake garbage compared to the Project Elemental that I usually use. I just stuck it straight in the bin.
I'm not suggesting that you need to go to splash out on a Sondeck, but there is a lot of difference in quality between the bargain basement turntables and the ones that are a bit further up the quality tree.
nostoneunturned20 h, 40 m ago

It is belt driven, if you read the spec, the 'direct' they are talking …It is belt driven, if you read the spec, the 'direct' they are talking about is in relation to the power supply to the motor, which then drives a silicone belt. Still sound interesting thou!


Thanks , have removed mentioning the direct drive is the post. I read it as direct drive but it was actually direct power! It is belt driven as you say.
Edited by: "josephobrien2000" 21st Aug
jj_jj43 m ago

nice response, certainly seems to show your ignorance. Cheers though, I'm …nice response, certainly seems to show your ignorance. Cheers though, I'm sure my comment will be useful to others, which is the point of the forum. take care... Unless you want to elaborate?? Maybe do a quick wiki search, come across as informed???



If you would like to explain what "doppler like worble" is, that would be useful/interesting.
bigsky8 m ago

If you would like to explain what "doppler like worble" is, that would be …If you would like to explain what "doppler like worble" is, that would be useful/interesting.


The doppler shift is the experience of a pitch change as your distance to a sound source changes when you or the sound source are in motion. Most commonly experienced when you are in a vehicle.

When the belt stretches on a turntable, especially if it is inconsistent stretching along its length, you get a pitch shift up and then down during playback. This is as the record speeds up slightly, then slows down slightly around the correct playback speed. This sounds the same as the doppler shift. Sorry, didn't think I would have to spell this out to people on a thread about turntables. Hope this helps...
Cheers
jj_jj32 m ago

The doppler shift is the experience of a pitch change as your distance to …The doppler shift is the experience of a pitch change as your distance to a sound source changes when you or the sound source are in motion. Most commonly experienced when you are in a vehicle.When the belt stretches on a turntable, especially if it is inconsistent stretching along its length, you get a pitch shift up and then down during playback. This is as the record speeds up slightly, then slows down slightly around the correct playback speed. This sounds the same as the doppler shift. Sorry, didn't think I would have to spell this out to people on a thread about turntables. Hope this helps... Cheers



Just as I thought. You don't know what you are talking about

Firstly the Doppler effect has nothing to do with this and I recommend you don't try playing records in a moving vehicle under any circumstances!

Secondly why would the belt stretch then not stretch if it is under a consistent load? It may slip if worn, stretched or greasy but will generally operate at a consistent speed particularly with a high mass platter once it has started moving.

Thirdly, and this is where your “expert advice” was significantly wrong and misleading, most high quality turntables are in fact belt driven. Direct drive was something of a marketing hype back in the eighties but there were a few reasonable products used it. The main advantage is the ability to produce a high torque, therefore fast start, suitable for DJs. The Technics SL-1200 would be one such product but it is hardly state of the art and not really audiophile quality either.

When it comes to speed variation you may have meant to say ‘wow and flutter’ rather that ‘doppler like worble’ but that is not what you said. The advantage of a belt drive system is the mechanical decoupling of the relatively noisy motor and bearings so that the platter is reliant solely on a single bearing that can be engineered to a high quality at relatively low cost. Speed variation in the form of wow and flutter will be more dependent on the motor type, control electronics and mechanical mass of the platter than the belt inconsistently stretching as you suggest.

I am sure you were trying to help but in suggesting that direct drive results in “zero mechanical vibration” and that using a belt drive is “nonsense” you were not helping, you were expressing your own opinion which you will find is in the minority amongst people that do this kind of thing for a living.
bigsky6 m ago

Just as I thought. You don't know what you are talking about Just as I thought. You don't know what you are talking about Firstly the Doppler effect has nothing to do with this and I recommend you don't try playing records in a moving vehicle under any circumstances!Secondly why would the belt stretch then not stretch if it is under a consistent load? It may slip if worn, stretched or greasy but will generally operate at a consistent speed particularly with a high mass platter once it has started moving. Thirdly, and this is where your “expert advice” was significantly wrong and misleading, most high quality turntables are in fact belt driven. Direct drive was something of a marketing hype back in the eighties but there were a few reasonable products used it. The main advantage is the ability to produce a high torque, therefore fast start, suitable for DJs. The Technics SL-1200 would be one such product but it is hardly state of the art and not really audiophile quality either.When it comes to speed variation you may have meant to say ‘wow and flutter’ rather that ‘doppler like worble’ but that is not what you said. The advantage of a belt drive system is the mechanical decoupling of the relatively noisy motor and bearings so that the platter is reliant solely on a single bearing that can be engineered to a high quality at relatively low cost. Speed variation in the form of wow and flutter will be more dependent on the motor type, control electronics and mechanical mass of the platter than the belt inconsistently stretching as you suggest.I am sure you were trying to help but in suggesting that direct drive results in “zero mechanical vibration” and that using a belt drive is “nonsense” you were not helping, you were expressing your own opinion which you will find is in the minority amongst people that do this kind of thing for a living.


define wow and flutter. If this is not pitch variation due to playback speed fluctuation then I stand corrected. As for why the belt may stretch you would have to ask why record players ever need their belt changing or adjusting. As for direct drive vs belt drive, you are incorrect. It was for near instant changes in speed, required by DJs. More imortantly, the manipluation of the platter by DJs would potentially damage or increase wear on belt drive systems. Don't think just because you can use audiophile nomenclature, that is just warped definitions you can somehow look 'smart'.

The only response you need is to define wow and flutter and prove they are not just being used to define a pitch change.
come one Bigsky... google faster so you can reply... potential buyers need your expert knowledge....
Marizu2 h, 25 m ago

I bought an Ion USB turntable as it looked handy and convenient to record …I bought an Ion USB turntable as it looked handy and convenient to record vinyl to a digital format. It honestly sounded lake garbage compared to the Project Elemental that I usually use. I just stuck it straight in the bin.


So you bought a turntable that you didn't like and then threw it in the bin, rather than giving it away to someone or donating it to a charity shop? Wow.
jj_jj1 h, 9 m ago

It was for near instant changes in speed, required by DJs. More …It was for near instant changes in speed, required by DJs. More imortantly, the manipluation of the platter by DJs would potentially damage or increase wear on belt drive systems.



I was trying not to get sucked back into this but you have now introduced yet another fabrication: "the manipluation of the platter by DJs would potentially damage or increase wear on belt drive systems".

A DJ does not manipulate the platter: the record sits on a slipmat and it moves independently of the platter which keeps spinning in the same direction. Some DJs do use belt drive turntables and although they do not start as fast as direct drive they can mix and scratch with them. You certainly do not stop and reverse the platter on any turntable, whether it is direct driven or belt-driven, that is why DJs use a slipmat.

This really isn't your subject is it? Please stop making stuff up.
bigsky2 m ago

I was trying not to get sucked back into this but you have now introduced …I was trying not to get sucked back into this but you have now introduced yet another fabrication: "the manipluation of the platter by DJs would potentially damage or increase wear on belt drive systems".A DJ does not manipulate the platter: the record sits on a slipmat and it moves independently of the platter which keeps spinning in the same direction. Some DJs do use belt drive turntables and although they do not start as fast as direct drive they can mix and scratch with them. You certainly do not stop and reverse the platter on any turntable, whether it is direct driven or belt-driven, that is why DJs use a slipmat. This really isn't your subject is it? Please stop making stuff up.


omg, you are so ignorant.... ignore the point i made and make a spurious side comment about slipmats. they do manipulate the platter, annnnnnnd use slipmats. the two aren't mutually exclusive.....
Edited by: "jj_jj" 21st Aug
This is a good deal. Pro-Ject make good turntables and you would struggle to find anything better at this price. Heat added.
I recorded perfect sounds on Audacity via usb on a cheap envio record player. Its not rocket science to spin a turntable at 33 rpm.
foes4you7 m ago

I recorded perfect sounds on Audacity via usb on a cheap envio record …I recorded perfect sounds on Audacity via usb on a cheap envio record player. Its not rocket science to spin a turntable at 33 rpm.



No you didn't, you don't know what you are talking about. Bigsky will be along shortly to explain why with some facts.
So, I am looking for an entry level turntable but not interested in the plastic builds knocking around in the same price range or lower. Will this fit the bill? I was considering the project primary phono before seeing this.
Seany268710 h, 6 m ago

So, I am looking for an entry level turntable but not interested in the …So, I am looking for an entry level turntable but not interested in the plastic builds knocking around in the same price range or lower. Will this fit the bill? I was considering the project primary phono before seeing this.


There are people in here that know way more than me about turntables. But from my perspective at a price of £100-£150 there are many so called 'branded' Turntables such as Sony denon lenco pioneer marantz that are rebranded Chinese units. This makes me feel a little mistrust. They are obviously ok otherwise they would not sell so many and there are good reviews . The lenco l-85 for example (not the l85) is well regarded at a price point of £100 or so and can be bought refurbished for £50 . There are some good reviews of the audio technica lp60usb which go on to challenge some of the points raised by others such as high cartridge weight. See what hifi review and youtube. From what I have read almost everywhere though , rega and project make turntables that have reviews which are higher than these brands. Because of their audio quality. But at this price they lack the features such asbuilt in preamp, usb record and automatic tonearm. You have to make a decision. The audio technica lp3 seems to balance it all and is £149. But for the same price you get a project with less features.
What we need as consumers is sample audio and you can see this on YouTube where one reviewer has ripped a song on an old technics turntable and a AT LP60. They're not much different to be honest!
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