Renault Zoe from £99 deposit and £144 per month @ evanshalshaw
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Renault Zoe from £99 deposit and £144 per month @ evanshalshaw

14
Found 28th Nov 2014
I think this is an amazing deal for a brand new electric car, only £99 deposit, then £99 per month plus the battery rental which is from £45 per month, I believe this is for 5,000 miles per year but I could be wrong. It also includes a free home charger, that will be installed by British Gas.

To put this deal into a perspective, I have had a Nissan Leaf for 2 years now and pay over twice the amount for my car, I've driven the Zoe and find the Leaf to be a better car, however it's certainly not worth twice the amount!

14 Comments

Annual mileage allowance of 3000 miles, excess mileage charge of £0.05p applies.

So, you pay more for electric vs a small car running on petrol per mile, have to deal with Renault who when they screw up your charging card will take months to fix it each time and can only do stupidly small annual mileage? Brave post but it's going to get very cold.

Yes, I got this a while ago from my local Renault dealer:

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you could be driving a top-of-the-range ZOE Dynamique Intens for 4years at 6000 miles a year for NO DEPOSIT and only £199 per month which includes servicing and the chargepoint fitted at your house as well …

With only about £10 per month added to your electricity bill to power you around, this has got to be the best chance ever to try the benefits of electric motoring for yourself.

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I have had a test drive and was very favourably impressed. I have a friend who has one and loves it. Very tempting!

Original Poster

Avalon-One

So, you pay more for electric vs a small car running on petrol per mile.



I'm confused, my car gets approx 70 mile from a charge, the charge costs me less than £2.50, compared to the price of a gallon of petrol, approx £5.70, you would have to get 140mpg to achieve the same as my car.

Comment

steeleez

I'm confused, my car gets approx 70 mile from a charge, the charge costs … I'm confused, my car gets approx 70 mile from a charge, the charge costs me less than £2.50, compared to the price of a gallon of petrol, approx £5.70, you would have to get 140mpg to achieve the same as my car.



And then you remember your battery rental cost. My Yaris does 50-55mpg depending on how it's driven, that equates to (allowing for petrol prices) 10-11p/mile in fuel. A Zoe cost £45 in battery rental and £2.50 per 70 miles, that's 43 charges at £2.50 to do 3k using your figure, so £107.50. Add the £540 for battery rental and that's £647.50 for 3k. It's £330 to do the same in a petrol car doing 50-55mpg which isn't hard, now before you point out I'd pay road tax you're right, £130 of it iirc, it's still only £460, starting to see the con with ev's?

Original Poster

Avalon-One

CommentAnd then you remember your battery rental cost. My Yaris does … CommentAnd then you remember your battery rental cost. My Yaris does 50-55mpg depending on how it's driven, that equates to (allowing for petrol prices) 10-11p/mile in fuel. A Zoe cost £45 in battery rental and £2.50 per 70 miles, that's 43 charges at £2.50 to do 3k using your figure, so £107.50. Add the £540 for battery rental and that's £647.50 for 3k. It's £330 to do the same in a petrol car doing 50-55mpg which isn't hard, now before you point out I'd pay road tax you're right, £130 of it iirc, it's still only £460, starting to see the con with ev's?



Aren't you forgetting to put the monthly payment for in to that equation, do you think you'd get a Yaris for £99 per month with £99 deposit, if you put all the monthly costs for a brand new Zoe against a brand new petrol car, the Zoe will be cheaper.

steeleez

Aren't you forgetting to put the monthly payment for in to that equation, … Aren't you forgetting to put the monthly payment for in to that equation, do you think you'd get a Yaris for £99 per month with £99 deposit, if you put all the monthly costs for a brand new Zoe against a brand new petrol car, the Zoe will be cheaper.



No, i'm not, I ignored monthly payment for both cars to give a fair comparison using running cost per mile, surprisingly the OTR price of a basic Yaris is £8595 OTR (source Toyota.co.uk) and the Zoe is £9,183.78 from the link above plus the £45/month battery contract for life. Even a Yaris Hybrid (if you're that way inclined) according to Toyota.co.uk direct can be had for £169 a month from Toyota compared to £144 (£99 + £45 for the battery contract) you'd pay for a Zoe, I didn't look at the battery situation on the Toyota. People have this (marketing created) idea that an EV such as a Zoe is cheap to run, it's not. You just pay (more) for it in a different way.

Original Poster

Ok then, I don't pay a battery charge on my leaf, so under your method, my car is significantly cheaper to run than your petrol car, so your statement that a small petrol car is cheaper than running an ev is totally incorrect. Listen I'm not preaching about ev's, I still love an ICE car, my link was put on here, so that if anyone is looking for a new car, this is a great deal imo, voting hot or cold doesn't bother me at all either, if this link helps someone to get into a cheap car, then job done.

steeleez

Ok then, I don't pay a battery charge on my leaf, so under your method, … Ok then, I don't pay a battery charge on my leaf, so under your method, my car is significantly cheaper to run than your petrol car, so your statement that a small petrol car is cheaper than running an ev is totally incorrect. Listen I'm not preaching about ev's, I still love an ICE car, my link was put on here, so that if anyone is looking for a new car, this is a great deal imo, voting hot or cold doesn't bother me at all either, if this link helps someone to get into a cheap car, then job done.



Wow, you really have been well and truly conned haven't you. I prove the deal's poor so now it's about your car, well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Nissan disagree with you. Page 7 here makes it clear Nisan offer 3 contract options with different mileage included, the cheapest is 7,500 miles/year on a 3 year contract for £70/month, 2 years is £80/month and 1 year is £90/month, you might not have it broken down depending on how you financed it, but you are paying it and that's a minimum of 11.2p a mile in battery costs assuming you do the full allowance, you could do less and the average cost per mile would obviously be higher, but lets go with the best case of 11.2p/mile, then add the £2.50 figure you gave for the cost per charge, for 107 charges needed to do those 7,500 miles that's another £267.85 making £1107.85 for 7,500 miles or 14.7p a mile. My previous car did 38mpg and that's about the cost per mile i'd expect to log using more expensive petrol. Compare that to the new Yaris I mentioned above, it does 67mpg, that's 8p/mile at 117.9p/ltr i've just paid, so how on earth can you kid yourself that either 11.2p or 14.7p is a smaller number than 8p?

Speaking of OTR prices a leaf is £26,490 OTR less the grant making it £21,490, you could buy a Yaris (for example) and have £12,895 to spend on fuel, in a current Gen Yaris at 67mpg average it's over 160,000 miles of fuel at today's rates. Either way I hope the Leaf and the Zoe come with a 'free' lifetime supply of lubricant... for the avoidance of doubt i'm not talking about the oil you put in a conventional engine

Avalon-One

Wow, you really have been well and truly conned haven't you. I prove the … Wow, you really have been well and truly conned haven't you. I prove the deal's poor so now it's about your car, well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Nissan disagree with you. Page 7 here makes it clear Nisan offer 3 contract options with different mileage included, the cheapest is 7,500 miles/year on a 3 year contract for £70/month, 2 years is £80/month and 1 year is £90/month, you might not have it broken down depending on how you financed it, but you are paying it and that's a minimum of 11.2p a mile in battery costs assuming you do the full allowance, you could do less and the average cost per mile would obviously be higher



You're wrong, that's the flex models. You can buy the battery outright.


joebuckton

You're wrong, that's the flex models. You can buy the battery outright.



I'll be honest I just went to the Nissan site and looked at the options it gave, they seem to be less open about outright purchase, but a little google goes a long way and I can now see why. After your post I hit google and found this which suggests you can pay FIVE GRAND on top of the car cost for the battery and own it.

Keeping with the Yaris example (or the Fiat 500 - the numbers are the same for mpg) and say you do 60k using today's figures, that's £4800 for petrol or £5,000 for the battery before you're off the forecourt, then you need to charge it 857 times at £2.50 a shot, that's another £2142 according to Steeleez figure. So 60,000 miles in a Leaf costs £7232 (12.05p/mile) vs £4800 (8p/mile). Again I don't see that as any kind of win for en EV. If yu scale it up to 100k it's £8,571 in a Leaf and £8,000 in a Yaris. Before you get too excited and extend that to break even over 100k remember that the Leaf battery will have gone through an absolute minimum of 1428 charging cycles using the real world experience of Steeleez and won't be capable of holding the same capacity as it did when new after that kind of duty cycle, that means more charges and the real world usage unlike a petrol car where you use it till you need to fill it up you aren't likely to do 70 miles exactly between charges so top up charging is inevitable meaning that the the real life number of charges required to hit 100k will be significantly higher than the optimum figure.

So taking all of the above into consideration and using the RAC's 2013 figure for average miles of 7,900 here's the pitch to part you from your cash:
If you
a) Do less than 70 miles at any one time
b) Plan on keeping the same car beyond 100k (12.6 years at average miles)
c) Have a location available to install a charging point
d) Believe the battery will last at least 12.6 years (at average miles) without developing a fault or significant performance hit
e) Have a crystal ball and know it won't get written off

Then just maybe your cost per mile might be lower, yes you still paid 10k+ more for the car in the first place vs a similar petrol car, but potentially you could save a few pounds on fuel over 100k
Edited by: "Avalon-One" 28th Nov 2014

Original Poster

No I have not been conned at all, I knew exactly what I was buying and the figures that came with it, I didn't buy my leaf to save me money on a petrol car, (I traded an Audi 1.8T Cabriolet in for it), I bought it because I needed a car that would transport a dog. So I went and test drove a few cars and fell in love with the leaf, it is fast, silent, comfortable and lovely to drive. I get free parking and free charge in the council run carparks, I've never been to a petrol station in 2 years, I work some nights, so in the winter I can pre heat my car using my phone, 5 minutes before I finish work and it's lovely and warm, with all the windows free of ice. I also got a whopping friends and family discount from Nissan. I'm not saying to people go out and buy a leaf, but I am saying it was perfect for me and as for the RAC 2013 figures, they're comparing a Yaris and Fiat 500 to a leaf, the leaf is a Focus size car with a brilliant spec, so the comparison is unfair in my opinion.

Now on to you proving me wrong about the running costs of an ev compared to a small ice car, firstly you compared the price of a bottom of the range 3 door Yaris to a Renault Zoe, which is a 5 door car with a very good spec, so even with the bottom of the range Yaris 5 door, putting a £99 deposit down, brings the monthly payment to £191 per month, you quoted a Yaris Hybrid for £169 per month from Toyota, that's with a deposit of £4710, so that blows that out of the water, granted these figures are for 10k per year, however, put the extra approx £30 per month on the Zoe price to cover the extra 7,000 miles and it'll still be cheaper and that's without the fuel saving. Then there's the extra cost of road tax and servicing.

Now if you intend to buy a car and keep it after the initial term, then of course the ice makes more sense, however over the 4 year term, you'll find the Zoe to be the cheaper option.

Zoe Yaris
Insurance £250.00 £250.00
Tax £0.00 £30.00
Servicing £100.00 £150.00
Fuel/Year £358.00 £819.00
Payment £174.00 £191.00
Total Cost £2,796.00 £3,541.00
Per Month £233.00 £295.08

These figures are based on 10,000 miles per year, fuel at £1.21 per litre and electric at £2.50 per charge and are based on giving the car back after the rental term. The insurance and service costs are approx and are taken from my experience of servicing an ev and an ice.

So to reiterate, I posted this deal so that if someone is looking for a cheap new car, here is an option, I am not saying go out and buy an ev at all, go and test drive cars and work out the figures and the deal that suit you.


Edited by: "steeleez" 30th Nov 2014

steeleez

No I have not been conned at all, I knew exactly what I was buying and … No I have not been conned at all, I knew exactly what I was buying and the figures that came with it, I didn't buy my leaf to save me money on a petrol car, (I traded an Audi 1.8T Cabriolet in for it), I bought it because I needed a car that would transport a dog. So I went and test drove a few cars and fell in love with the leaf, it is fast, silent, comfortable and lovely to drive. I get free parking and free charge in the council run carparks, I've never been to a petrol station in 2 years, I work some nights, so in the winter I can pre heat my car using my phone, 5 minutes before I finish work and it's lovely and warm, with all the windows free of ice. I also got a whopping friends and family discount from Nissan. I'm not saying to people go out and buy a leaf, but I am saying it was perfect for me and as for the RAC 2013 figures, they're comparing a Yaris and Fiat 500 to a leaf, the leaf is a Focus size car with a brilliant spec, so the comparison is unfair in my opinion.Now on to you proving me wrong about the running costs of an ev compared to a small ice car, firstly you compared the price of a bottom of the range 3 door Yaris to a Renault Zoe, which is a 5 door car with a very good spec, so even with the bottom of the range Yaris 5 door, putting a £99 deposit down, brings the monthly payment to £191 per month, you quoted a Yaris Hybrid for £169 per month from Toyota, that's with a deposit of £4710, so that blows that out of the water, granted these figures are for 10k per year, however, put the extra approx £30 per month on the Zoe price to cover the extra 7,000 miles and it'll still be cheaper and that's without the fuel saving. Then there's the extra cost of road tax and servicing.Now if you intend to buy a car and keep it after the initial term, then of course the ice makes more sense, however over the 4 year term, you'll find the Zoe to be the cheaper option. Zoe YarisInsurance £250.00 £250.00Tax £0.00 £30.00 Servicing £100.00 £150.00Fuel/Year £358.00 £819.00Payment £174.00 £191.00Total Cost £2,796.00 £3,541.00Per Month £233.00 £295.08These figures are based on 10,000 miles per year, fuel at £1.21 per litre and electric at £2.50 per charge and are based on giving the car back after the rental term. The insurance and service costs are approx and are taken from my experience of servicing an ev and an ice.So to reiterate, I posted this deal so that if someone is looking for a cheap new car, here is an option, I am not saying go out and buy an ev at all, go and test drive cars and work out the figures and the deal that suit you.



So hang on, I shoot down the Zoe's deal and you switch it to a Leaf and try telling me it's cheaper, then when that theory is blown out of the water, it's suddenly not about saving money and back to the Zoe? You have to know that even by widening the criteria this just won't end well surely? I'll play along though, heck if i'm wrong i'm man enough to admit it, are you?

Firstly the Zoe is a small ev city car, I should compare it to a Aygo/C1/106/Up/Citygo etc. in fairness but I went a class above. The only RAC figure quoted was the average distance a UK car covers each year as it was the first source with reasonable credibility, the mpg average is the published book value. The only reason the Leaf ever got compared to a Yaris was because you brought it into the conversation before I destroyed the 'my car (the leaf) is significantly cheaper to run' argument as i'm about to do on the Zoey.

I specifically compared the real world running costs of a Zoe and a Yaris but you've chosen to widen the scope to full running costs which is fair enough, the more informed a person is then hopefully the easier it is for them to make a choice. I'd point out that several Yaris's have 200k and a few are now over 400k without significant issues, you won't see that out of a Zoe any time soon, the owner I know can't even get them to sort out his charging card for god knows how many months. Ironically he still preaches about the low cost per mile - sound familiar? The Zoey is £99/month and £45 a month for the battery rental, that's why your deal was edited to £144 and that lease is based on doing no more than 8.22 miles a day on average (3k/365) which kind of makes the whole need for a car dubious, but i'll go with what Renault seem to think the car is suitable for, they charge 5p per mile to go over that, your 10,000 comparison seems reasonable so here goes:

Zoe: No VED, servicing you state is £100, 12 months battery rental at £45 is £540, 7,000 miles excess mileage at 5p is £350, and the charging for all 10k at £2.50 a charge and your stated 70 mile range is a minimum of 143 charges, the reality will obviously be a lot higher as you're never going to get to 69.9 miles before you stop at a charging point, so £357.50 minimum. I make that to be £2245 to do 10,000 miles or 22.45p/mile (OUCH!).

Now here's where I start to disagree. Firstly the Yaris hybrid, it was literally an off the cuff remark, I didn't look at/mention the deposit or use it as a comparison, if I had the significantly higher mpg would have made the cost per mile even lower. I'm also not going to bother costing insurance, they're both low groupings so the cost should be broadly similar and as you suggest the same it looks like a moot point anyway.

Yaris: No VED (since July this year on the 1.0vvti), servicing is zero for the first two years from the current offers as is zero % finance, fuel ... I know you've not been to a petrol station in 2 years but 121.9? I paid 117.9 the day I quoted the figure, Asda have knocked 2p/ltr off the going rate since then so it should be that or lower now, if my local Sainsbury has done the same it'll be 116.9. You already know from the above it'll come out at 8p/mile so £800 for 10k.

Clear winner by £1345 is the Yaris.

Purchase price, OK you went with the 'cheap' finance offer on a Zoe so £99 a month or £1,188 per year (we've already counted the battery cost above and i'm not about to count it twice), using your figure of £191 the Yaris it comes out at £2,292 per year so the winner is the Zoe by £1,104, again i'll just use your figure for simplicity rather than shopping it out for a deal.

In summary:
Zoe: £2,245 + £1,188 = £3,433 or 34.33p/mile.
Yaris: £800 + £2,292 = £3,092 or 30.92p/mile or a saving of £341

Now surely you can see that even the 'cheap' Zoe is more expensive to run per mile and per year than a petrol car even one of the non base spec and widening the criteria/using the finance details you provided, obviously it'd be even more one sided in favour of the Yaris if you went with base spec, in much the same way it'd be cheaper with an Aygo etc. which i'd argue is more the market that the Zoe is pitched at with it's 8 miles a day average included in the battery lease.

Original Poster

[/quote]
Zoe: No VED, servicing you state is £100, 12 months battery rental at £45 is £540, 7,000 miles excess mileage at 5p is £350, and the charging for all 10k at £2.50 a charge and your stated 70 mile range is a minimum of 143 charges, the reality will obviously be a lot higher as you're never going to get to 69.9 miles before you stop at a charging point, so £357.50 minimum. I make that to be £2245 to do 10,000 miles or 22.45p/mile (OUCH!). [/quote]

So £100 for servicing plus £540 battery rental plus £350 excess mileage charge plus £357.50 comes to £2245? I make that £1347.50!

Also the £2.50 per charge is approximate and is based on charging the car from empty to full charge, which in reality costs approx. £2.32 on my tariff, you only pay for the electricity used, not per charge. I used 69mpg for the Yaris, do you think you'll get that in the real world?

There is no way the Zoe is an Aygo sized car, it is the same size as a Yaris, believe me, I have had a test drive in one.

Furthermore, I did not switch it to a Leaf telling you it's cheaper at all, you stated a small petrol car is cheaper to run than an ev after you included battery rental into your calculation, I purely compared my Leaf's running costs, as I don't pay battery rental. You say I was conned, you are wrong, I was not conned, you say your figures prove me wrong, again you are wrong, you can't even do basic mathematics!

Now I can't be bothered to respond to this anymore, so if anyone is looking to buy a new car, ask Avalon-One as he obviously knows his stuff!



Edited by: "steeleez" 2nd Dec 2014
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